I may be getting involved in some gold stuff up in Nome, Alaska.

I need to research induced liquefaction.

WIKI: In geology, liquefaction refers to the process by which saturated,
unconsolidated sediments are transformed into a substance that acts like a
liquid.
Earthquakes can cause soil liquefaction where loosely packed, water-logged
sediments come loose from the intense shaking of the earthquake.

end of wiki.

Induced would mean it could be caused at will and controlled.

I need to be able to create a vibratory pulse at the end of a tube from 6 to
90 feet underwater. I am considering some sort of water hammer type based
device. Air could also be used, but that would probably require some sort
of end device which the air would drive. Water is incompressible, and air
would be, so the water hammer idea may work better.

Any of you have any bright ideas, or are interested in getting in on any
gold mining in Nome?

Steve

On 2012-04-02, Steve B wrote:
I may be getting involved in some gold stuff up in Nome, Alaska.

I need to research induced liquefaction.

WIKI: In geology, liquefaction refers to the process by which saturated,
unconsolidated sediments are transformed into a substance that acts like a
liquid.
Earthquakes can cause soil liquefaction where loosely packed, water-logged
sediments come loose from the intense shaking of the earthquake.

end of wiki.

Induced would mean it could be caused at will and controlled.

I need to be able to create a vibratory pulse at the end of a tube from 6 to
90 feet underwater. I am considering some sort of water hammer type based
device. Air could also be used, but that would probably require some sort
of end device which the air would drive. Water is incompressible, and air
would be, so the water hammer idea may work better.

Any of you have any bright ideas, or are interested in getting in on any
gold mining in Nome?


I would be interesting in gold mining in Illinois.

As for vibration, I like the compressed air idea.

i

"Steve B" wrote in message ...

Induced would mean it could be caused at will and controlled.

Doesn't really mean that.
As I understand it liquification only occurs in some soils and in some
conditions, and probably will not happen for some soils under ANY
conditions.

I would think you need to refine your question, and know more about
the soils you are interested in.
For example, a thixotropic soil will have its viscosity change (for a
time) significantly wen exposed to shear stress. and in those soils
your water hammer might work. To get the energy you want to transmit
properly coupled to your soils could be an issue though. What sort
of volume, or area are you trying to liquefy?


Also are you doing this unmanned, or will you have a diver? That
could limit the level of shock waves you could safely create.


I would think trying to use a high pressure jet just in front of your
suction might work better than any sort of "hammer".



I need to be able to create a vibratory pulse at the end of a tube from 6 to 90
feet underwater. I am considering some sort of water hammer type based device.
Air could also be used, but that would probably require some sort of end device
which the air would drive. Water is incompressible, and air would be, so the water
hammer idea may work better.

Any of you have any bright ideas, or are interested in getting in on any gold
mining in Nome?

Steve


Would something like a concrete vibrator work?
Art

jk

"Artemus" wrote


Would something like a concrete vibrator work?
Art

I got the concrete vibrator idea from one of the hits from Google. Out of
all, it seems the simplest, most rugged, reliable, and cheap. Now to find
where I can buy or get LONG cables made .........

The idea is to agitate the soil around the suction head instead of just
having the suction head be flung to and fro by a diver. Maybe even make a
suction head that is elongated instead of the ball types they show on TV,
and that are common to gold dredges.

And watching those TV shows, I wonder why none of them haven't used
something as simple as plastic milk jugs underwater to help suspend the hose
and lessen all that pulling and tugging. May be the lazy way to do it, but
I'm into lazy when it comes to lugging stuff around. Especially underwater.

Steve

"jk" wrote

I would think trying to use a high pressure jet just in front of your
suction might work better than any sort of "hammer".

I can see you have no experience using high pressure water underwater.
Think bottle rocket effect.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message ...
I may be getting involved in some gold stuff up in Nome, Alaska.

I need to research induced liquefaction.

WIKI: In geology, liquefaction refers to the process by which saturated,
unconsolidated sediments are transformed into a substance that acts like a liquid.
Earthquakes can cause soil liquefaction where loosely packed, water-logged
sediments come loose from the intense shaking of the earthquake.

end of wiki.

Induced would mean it could be caused at will and controlled.

I need to be able to create a vibratory pulse at the end of a tube from 6 to 90
feet underwater. I am considering some sort of water hammer type based device.
Air could also be used, but that would probably require some sort of end device
which the air would drive. Water is incompressible, and air would be, so the water
hammer idea may work better.

Any of you have any bright ideas, or are interested in getting in on any gold
mining in Nome?

Steve


Would something like a concrete vibrator work?
Art

"Artemus" fired this volley in
:

It seems to me that water jets around the perimeter of the suction
head would work better than a vibrator. They would stir up the fines
and leave the bigger stuff on the bottom. A vibrator would cause the
fines to settle even deeper. But I'm no expert on the matter.


I don't know what the vibrator might do, but this is a funny thread for
me, for another reason.

Just two weeks ago, I had a guy approach me to ask if I could build a
gold vacuum barge for him! I had to explain that although I've used
underwater vacuums for retrieving archeological artifacts, I thought the
requirements for sucking up heavy metals might be more stringent -- and
besides; the largest piece of equipment I'd ever built for sale weighed
1800lb, not 180,000! G

LLoyd

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:55:33 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

I may be getting involved in some gold stuff up in Nome, Alaska.

I need to research induced liquefaction.

WIKI: In geology, liquefaction refers to the process by which saturated,
unconsolidated sediments are transformed into a substance that acts like a
liquid.
Earthquakes can cause soil liquefaction where loosely packed, water-logged
sediments come loose from the intense shaking of the earthquake.

end of wiki.

Induced would mean it could be caused at will and controlled.

I need to be able to create a vibratory pulse at the end of a tube from 6 to
90 feet underwater. I am considering some sort of water hammer type based
device. Air could also be used, but that would probably require some sort
of end device which the air would drive. Water is incompressible, and air
would be, so the water hammer idea may work better.

Any of you have any bright ideas, or are interested in getting in on any
gold mining in Nome?

Steve


Is this a suction dredge?
--
Cheers,

John B.

"Steve B" wrote in message ...

"Artemus" wrote


Would something like a concrete vibrator work?
Art

I got the concrete vibrator idea from one of the hits from Google. Out of all, it
seems the simplest, most rugged, reliable, and cheap. Now to find where I can buy
or get LONG cables made .........

The idea is to agitate the soil around the suction head instead of just having the
suction head be flung to and fro by a diver. Maybe even make a suction head that
is elongated instead of the ball types they show on TV, and that are common to gold
dredges.

And watching those TV shows, I wonder why none of them haven't used something as
simple as plastic milk jugs underwater to help suspend the hose and lessen all that
pulling and tugging. May be the lazy way to do it, but I'm into lazy when it comes
to lugging stuff around. Especially underwater.

Steve
It seems to me that water jets around the perimeter of the suction head
would work better than a vibrator. They would stir up the fines and leave
the bigger stuff on the bottom. A vibrator would cause the fines to settle
even deeper. But I'm no expert on the matter.
Art

Having lived in scary woods - 5 miles from the famous 8.4/7.1 "San Fran"
earthquake.

Liquefaction can occur (and did while I lived there) from a week or
so of heavy pounding rain. The top 6 or so inches was jelly.
It was a mixture of mostly bio-waste from the trees decaying. It looked
like soil and planted like it - but was stack-up of fallen frowns from
redwood trees.

During the (and after) the 'big one ' (almost) ground moved and the
soils near the end of the peninsula which was old fill dirt and wood
trash (likely from the great fire) - that neighborhood suffered
liquefaction.

It is like quicksand - nothing there to stand on.

If you induce that in a slurry the gold would surly sink.

Good luck. Sounds feasible.

Martin

On 4/2/2012 4:55 PM, Steve B wrote:
I may be getting involved in some gold stuff up in Nome, Alaska.

I need to research induced liquefaction.

WIKI: In geology, liquefaction refers to the process by which saturated,
unconsolidated sediments are transformed into a substance that acts like a
liquid.
Earthquakes can cause soil liquefaction where loosely packed, water-logged
sediments come loose from the intense shaking of the earthquake.

end of wiki.

Induced would mean it could be caused at will and controlled.

I need to be able to create a vibratory pulse at the end of a tube from 6 to
90 feet underwater. I am considering some sort of water hammer type based
device. Air could also be used, but that would probably require some sort
of end device which the air would drive. Water is incompressible, and air
would be, so the water hammer idea may work better.

Any of you have any bright ideas, or are interested in getting in on any
gold mining in Nome?

Steve

On 2012-04-03, Martin Eastburn wrote:
It is like quicksand - nothing there to stand on.


By the way, the fact is, you cannot sink in quicksand.

i

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:06:24 -0500, Ignoramus14985
wrote:

On 2012-04-03, Martin Eastburn wrote:
It is like quicksand - nothing there to stand on.


By the way, the fact is, you cannot sink in quicksand.

i

What? You mean those Tarzan movies I watched as a kid weren't true??

For a while, I was afraid to go in the woods. Quicksand everywhere...

--
Ed Huntress

On 2012-04-03, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:06:24 -0500, Ignoramus14985
wrote:

On 2012-04-03, Martin Eastburn wrote:
It is like quicksand - nothing there to stand on.


By the way, the fact is, you cannot sink in quicksand.

i

What? You mean those Tarzan movies I watched as a kid weren't true??

Of course not.


For a while, I was afraid to go in the woods. Quicksand everywhere...


When I was 10 years old, me and my friends decided to wait until
midnight and go to the cemetery to see ghosts. The plan was to lie in
bed and pretend to be sleeping until midnight, at which point we were
to get out of beds, get together, and go to the cemetery.

Of course, everyone fell asleep and we all slept soundly until
morning.

i

Steve B wrote:
I may be getting involved in some gold stuff up in Nome, Alaska.

I need to research induced liquefaction.

WIKI: In geology, liquefaction refers to the process by which saturated,
unconsolidated sediments are transformed into a substance that acts like a
liquid.
Earthquakes can cause soil liquefaction where loosely packed, water-logged
sediments come loose from the intense shaking of the earthquake.

end of wiki.

Induced would mean it could be caused at will and controlled.

I need to be able to create a vibratory pulse at the end of a tube from 6 to
90 feet underwater. I am considering some sort of water hammer type based
device. Air could also be used, but that would probably require some sort
of end device which the air would drive. Water is incompressible, and air
would be, so the water hammer idea may work better.

Any of you have any bright ideas, or are interested in getting in on any
gold mining in Nome?

Steve



Concrete vibrator

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:24:20 -0500, Ignoramus14985
wrote:

On 2012-04-03, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:06:24 -0500, Ignoramus14985
wrote:

On 2012-04-03, Martin Eastburn wrote:
It is like quicksand - nothing there to stand on.


By the way, the fact is, you cannot sink in quicksand.

i

What? You mean those Tarzan movies I watched as a kid weren't true??

Of course not.


For a while, I was afraid to go in the woods. Quicksand everywhere...


When I was 10 years old, me and my friends decided to wait until
midnight and go to the cemetery to see ghosts. The plan was to lie in
bed and pretend to be sleeping until midnight, at which point we were
to get out of beds, get together, and go to the cemetery.

Of course, everyone fell asleep and we all slept soundly until
morning.

i

Probably a good thing. Ghosts *love* little kids -- roasted, fried, or
stewed.

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/2/2012 7:06 PM, Ignoramus14985 wrote:
On 2012-04-03, Martin wrote:
It is like quicksand - nothing there to stand on.


By the way, the fact is, you cannot sink in quicksand.

Bull****. I saw Hoss Cartwright, Marshall Matt Dillon, and I don't know
how many others sinking in it on TV plenty of times in the 1960s.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

I don't know what the vibrator might do, but this is a funny thread for
me, for another reason.

Just two weeks ago, I had a guy approach me to ask if I could build a
gold vacuum barge for him! I had to explain that although I've used
underwater vacuums for retrieving archeological artifacts, I thought the
requirements for sucking up heavy metals might be more stringent -- and
besides; the largest piece of equipment I'd ever built for sale weighed
1800lb, not 180,000! G


Don't build it in your basement. ;-)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"John B." wrote i

Is this a suction dredge?
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes. The intended modification would be at the suction head.

Steve

"Artemus" wrote

It seems to me that water jets around the perimeter of the suction head
would work better than a vibrator. They would stir up the fines and leave
the bigger stuff on the bottom. A vibrator would cause the fines to
settle
even deeper. But I'm no expert on the matter.
Art

Underwater, you have to have an opposing jet for every jet you have to
cancel the force that jet makes in the opposite direction from the way it
blows. A large force of water at the head would be no problem using a T, as
we did underwater, then using hundreds of pounds of water pressure with no
resulting force in any direction.

Jets would aggravate a big area, so should be kept small, or it would just
blow all the stuff you want into the water around you. I'm thinking of
things that will keep all the action in a 2' cylindrical area. The object
is to penetrate deeper than just the surface, not to blow the gold all over
the place, and suck it up through smaller holes so that the amount of
material you actually pick up would be minimized. Most gold is less than 1"
anyway, and in that area, it's a lot smaller than that. Big nuggets are
rare in that area.

Steve

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Artemus" fired this volley in
:

It seems to me that water jets around the perimeter of the suction
head would work better than a vibrator. They would stir up the fines
and leave the bigger stuff on the bottom. A vibrator would cause the
fines to settle even deeper. But I'm no expert on the matter.


I don't know what the vibrator might do, but this is a funny thread for
me, for another reason.

Just two weeks ago, I had a guy approach me to ask if I could build a
gold vacuum barge for him! I had to explain that although I've used
underwater vacuums for retrieving archeological artifacts, I thought the
requirements for sucking up heavy metals might be more stringent -- and
besides; the largest piece of equipment I'd ever built for sale weighed
1800lb, not 180,000! G

LLoyd

I would sure like to talk to him and show him a veiled idea of my device. I
need a couple of people or more to actually test the prototypes.