Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
I needed to get a couple jobs done. The screws need to be replaced on the
Taig so I couldn't use its regular flood oil coolant setup until I fix it. I used my smaller machine, rubbed a little Tap Magic on the work piece and hit it with a blast of compressed air. When surfacing off the aluminum work piece with a 1/4" end mill (largest that spindle will hold) it got pretty hot, but it worked great when 3D carving with a 1/16 ball mill. I ran full pressure off my compressor (125 PSI I think) and used a simple ball valve to regulate flow somewhat, but I let it flow pretty heavily. So... how much air do you guys use? Pressure? CFM? My compressor ran continuously when I was running the mill. I'll be adding an electric shut off valve to the air line to that cabinet, so my compressor will shut off when I am done with a cut, but I was thinking if I could consume less air and get a decent job I would add a flow and pressure regulator too. |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:32:00 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:
I needed to get a couple jobs done. The screws need to be replaced on the Taig so I couldn't use its regular flood oil coolant setup until I fix it. I used my smaller machine, rubbed a little Tap Magic on the work piece and hit it with a blast of compressed air. When surfacing off the aluminum work piece with a 1/4" end mill (largest that spindle will hold) it got pretty hot, but it worked great when 3D carving with a 1/16 ball mill. I ran full pressure off my compressor (125 PSI I think) and used a simple ball valve to regulate flow somewhat, but I let it flow pretty heavily. So... how much air do you guys use? Pressure? CFM? My compressor ran continuously when I was running the mill. I'll be adding an electric shut off valve to the air line to that cabinet, so my compressor will shut off when I am done with a cut, but I was thinking if I could consume less air and get a decent job I would add a flow and pressure regulator too. Speaking naively, because I don't do this, either: a pressure regulator may be the least necessary part. Just putting in a valve to let you throttle back the airflow will "regulate" the flow to the extent that the compressor is maintaining pressure. A regulator will let you keep the flow steady, which means that you'll conserve air when the compressor pressure is high (by not letting the flow increase at high pressure). But I suspect that the two biggest things that will save air will be to find the minimum flow necessary to keep things cool, followed by that electric cut-off dingus that you're proposing. Does anyone use augmenter tubes, to get more low-pressure flow from the naturally low-flow, high pressure stream out of a nozzle? -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
... On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:32:00 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote: I needed to get a couple jobs done. The screws need to be replaced on the Taig so I couldn't use its regular flood oil coolant setup until I fix it. I used my smaller machine, rubbed a little Tap Magic on the work piece and hit it with a blast of compressed air. When surfacing off the aluminum work piece with a 1/4" end mill (largest that spindle will hold) it got pretty hot, but it worked great when 3D carving with a 1/16 ball mill. I ran full pressure off my compressor (125 PSI I think) and used a simple ball valve to regulate flow somewhat, but I let it flow pretty heavily. So... how much air do you guys use? Pressure? CFM? My compressor ran continuously when I was running the mill. I'll be adding an electric shut off valve to the air line to that cabinet, so my compressor will shut off when I am done with a cut, but I was thinking if I could consume less air and get a decent job I would add a flow and pressure regulator too. Speaking naively, because I don't do this, either: a pressure regulator may be the least necessary part. Just putting in a valve to let you throttle back the airflow will "regulate" the flow to the extent that the compressor is maintaining pressure. A regulator will let you keep the flow steady, which means that you'll conserve air when the compressor pressure is high (by not letting the flow increase at high pressure). But I suspect that the two biggest things that will save air will be to find the minimum flow necessary to keep things cool, followed by that electric cut-off dingus that you're proposing. Does anyone use augmenter tubes, to get more low-pressure flow from the naturally low-flow, high pressure stream out of a nozzle? Augmenter tubes? Like an expansion chamber? |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:59:56 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:32:00 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote: I needed to get a couple jobs done. The screws need to be replaced on the Taig so I couldn't use its regular flood oil coolant setup until I fix it. I used my smaller machine, rubbed a little Tap Magic on the work piece and hit it with a blast of compressed air. When surfacing off the aluminum work piece with a 1/4" end mill (largest that spindle will hold) it got pretty hot, but it worked great when 3D carving with a 1/16 ball mill. I ran full pressure off my compressor (125 PSI I think) and used a simple ball valve to regulate flow somewhat, but I let it flow pretty heavily. So... how much air do you guys use? Pressure? CFM? My compressor ran continuously when I was running the mill. I'll be adding an electric shut off valve to the air line to that cabinet, so my compressor will shut off when I am done with a cut, but I was thinking if I could consume less air and get a decent job I would add a flow and pressure regulator too. Speaking naively, because I don't do this, either: a pressure regulator may be the least necessary part. Just putting in a valve to let you throttle back the airflow will "regulate" the flow to the extent that the compressor is maintaining pressure. A regulator will let you keep the flow steady, which means that you'll conserve air when the compressor pressure is high (by not letting the flow increase at high pressure). But I suspect that the two biggest things that will save air will be to find the minimum flow necessary to keep things cool, followed by that electric cut-off dingus that you're proposing. Does anyone use augmenter tubes, to get more low-pressure flow from the naturally low-flow, high pressure stream out of a nozzle? I use air nozzles that entrain air and they work well for blowing chips and such. They work using the Coanda effect. Much more effective than a regular air nozzle. quieter too. Eric |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
Bob La Londe wrote:
I needed to get a couple jobs done. The screws need to be replaced on the Taig so I couldn't use its regular flood oil coolant setup until I fix it. I used my smaller machine, rubbed a little Tap Magic on the work piece and hit it with a blast of compressed air. When surfacing off the aluminum work piece with a 1/4" end mill (largest that spindle will hold) it got pretty hot, but it worked great when 3D carving with a 1/16 ball mill. I ran full pressure off my compressor (125 PSI I think) and used a simple ball valve to regulate flow somewhat, but I let it flow pretty heavily. So... how much air do you guys use? Pressure? CFM? My compressor ran continuously when I was running the mill. I'll be adding an electric shut off valve to the air line to that cabinet, so my compressor will shut off when I am done with a cut, but I was thinking if I could consume less air and get a decent job I would add a flow and pressure regulator too. Air blast is probably the worst way to remove chips and cool things. A really good nozzle can move the chips with less air flow, but it is still inefficient. A jet of flood coolant takes very little energy compared to a big air compressor. Jon |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
Jon Elson fired this volley in news:fICdnY1
: A jet of flood coolant takes very little energy compared to a big air compressor. Indeed. Additionally, it provides lubrication, and "spot cooling" at the specific areas (cutting edges) where air cannot impinge because of the pressure "buffers" that corners produce. LLoyd |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70... Jon Elson fired this volley in news:fICdnY1 : A jet of flood coolant takes very little energy compared to a big air compressor. Indeed. Additionally, it provides lubrication, and "spot cooling" at the specific areas (cutting edges) where air cannot impinge because of the pressure "buffers" that corners produce. LLoyd Depending on the material being cut conduction can play a major factor as well. I discovered the same affect in reverse when trying to weld aluminum thicker than 1/4 inch. I had to preheat and weld short stretches in order to get it to weld properly. While the micro spot of impact at the edge of the cutter may not be directly impacted by air cooling flow it most certainly will not build heat as much and conduct it up the tool and into the spindle to the same degree if both the work piece and the tool are being cooled. Anyway, This machine will remain dry one way or another for the foreseeable future. If you have some thoughts on doing that I would be more than glad to hear them. Your insights are always educational. Bob |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:BlM9r.9099
: If you have some thoughts on doing that I would be more than glad to hear them. Bob, The only things I can recommend are to use fairly large-diameter piping and high pressure, ending in multiple small lamilar-flow jets that will increase the velocity, let you direct the flow close to the heating zone, and provide significant expansion cooling as they work. The added velocity will also give you better chip clearance, and drive you out of the shop with noise -- so wear ear-gear. LLoyd |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70... "Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:BlM9r.9099 : If you have some thoughts on doing that I would be more than glad to hear them. Bob, The only things I can recommend are to use fairly large-diameter piping and high pressure, ending in multiple small lamilar-flow jets that will increase the velocity, let you direct the flow close to the heating zone, and provide significant expansion cooling as they work. The added velocity will also give you better chip clearance, and drive you out of the shop with noise -- so wear ear-gear. Thanks Lloyd. That particular machine is inside an MDF cabinet which helps a lot for sound deadening. You have to raise your voice to have a conversation right next to it, but 15 feet away you can have an almost normal conversation even with the shop doors closed. It could probably be better, but I put lexan doors on the front rather than more MDF. Currently the air is just a 1/4" piece of copper tube fed by a 3/8 air line with a valve in between. It worked pretty good, but consumed prodigious amounts of air. I am looking at various air volume increaser jets etc. The compressor on the other side of the room is louder than the noise from the cabinet. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ... I needed to get a couple jobs done. The screws need to be replaced on the Taig so I couldn't use its regular flood oil coolant setup until I fix it. I used my smaller machine, rubbed a little Tap Magic on the work piece and hit it with a blast of compressed air. When surfacing off the aluminum work piece with a 1/4" end mill (largest that spindle will hold) it got pretty hot, but it worked great when 3D carving with a 1/16 ball mill. I ran full pressure off my compressor (125 PSI I think) and used a simple ball valve to regulate flow somewhat, but I let it flow pretty heavily. So... how much air do you guys use? Pressure? CFM? My compressor ran continuously when I was running the mill. I'll be adding an electric shut off valve to the air line to that cabinet, so my compressor will shut off when I am done with a cut, but I was thinking if I could consume less air and get a decent job I would add a flow and pressure regulator too. I just brush on a little bit of MSC cutting oil for steel or kerosine for aluminum. There is a noticeable but not serious difference between completely dry and lightly oiled, but no additional benefit from more oil as long as I run at HSS recommended cutting speeds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_and_feeds Those are for dry cutting. The older $3 Enco end mills dull quickly unless run slower. Otherwise I haven't had heat problems on mild steel, 303, drill rod and graded bolt shanks. Sometimes the super-duper tapping fluids give a better finish. I use them very sparingly to avoid the fumes. jsw |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
A Question for You Air Only Guys
"Bob La Londe" wrote in
: I needed to get a couple jobs done. The screws need to be replaced on the Taig so I couldn't use its regular flood oil coolant setup until I fix it. I used my smaller machine, rubbed a little Tap Magic on the work piece and hit it with a blast of compressed air. When surfacing off the aluminum work piece with a 1/4" end mill (largest that spindle will hold) it got pretty hot, but it worked great when 3D carving with a 1/16 ball mill. I ran full pressure off my compressor (125 PSI I think) and used a simple ball valve to regulate flow somewhat, but I let it flow pretty heavily. So... how much air do you guys use? Pressure? CFM? My compressor ran continuously when I was running the mill. I'll be adding an electric shut off valve to the air line to that cabinet, so my compressor will shut off when I am done with a cut, but I was thinking if I could consume less air and get a decent job I would add a flow and pressure regulator too. You can get a lot more air flow with less CFM/PSI using the right nozzle: http://www.silvent.com/www/live/prod...aspx?TreeID=48 Depending on the nozzle, they claim over 40% reduction in air "costs". The bad news is that they still want 10 cfm at over 100 PSI. Doug White |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
CNC Guys Question... | Metalworking | |||
hi help me out guys | Electronics Repair | |||
A question for the HVAC guys | Home Repair | |||
Cyclone question for you guys | Woodworking |