What is the best tapping oil/fluid for aluminum? The oil I am using now is
a general purpose cutting machining oil. I tap a lot of 10/32 holes and it
would be nice (for convenience) if I could get some more use of of my taps.
I can tap about 40-50 (+/-) holes through 1/2" 6061-T6 bar stock and the
clutch starts to slip on my tapping head. If I try to get any more out of
it, I'll break the tap within another 2-5 holes. Breaking a tap off in an
otherwise finished work piece really sucks.

When I replace taps I back off the clutch and then tap a hole. I'll tighten
it a little at a time, and when the tap goes all the way through with out
slipping just barely I'll give it about 1/32 of a turn more. That seems to
work pretty good with this head.

The other thing I wonder about. I have been buying spiral flute taps. Not
because I need to tap blind holes, but because gun taps seem to be hard to
find labeled clearly and correctly. I know when I buy a spiral flute tap
its intended for machine tapping. If I can find clearly marked gun taps for
machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral flute taps?

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:jdi5di
:

If I can find clearly marked gun taps for
machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral flute taps?


Bob, they might or might not be stronger, depending upon the web
thickness, but they aren't suitable for machine tapping.

You need a tap that will neatly clear the chips -- that's exactly what
spiral taps do; they cut the chips, then wind them up out of the hole
like a drill bit would, instead of just packing them in the flutes, or
worse, pushing them ahead where they can induce even more binding on
future revolutions.

Stick with the spiral ones, and consider that a tapping head's clutch is
_meant_ to slip when you've over-torqued. If you break a tap with a
tapping head (in a rigid setup), then you've got the clutch too tight.
The reversing feature is there to help clear the hole when necessary.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:jdi5di
:

If I can find clearly marked gun taps for
machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral flute taps?


Bob, they might or might not be stronger, depending upon the web
thickness, but they aren't suitable for machine tapping.

You need a tap that will neatly clear the chips -- that's exactly what
spiral taps do; they cut the chips, then wind them up out of the hole
like a drill bit would, instead of just packing them in the flutes, or
worse, pushing them ahead where they can induce even more binding on
future revolutions.

Stick with the spiral ones, and consider that a tapping head's clutch is
_meant_ to slip when you've over-torqued. If you break a tap with a
tapping head (in a rigid setup), then you've got the clutch too tight.
The reversing feature is there to help clear the hole when necessary.

LLoyd

It was somebody in this group who said gun taps are supposed to shoot the
chips ahead of the tap for through hole for machine tapping.


Well, for now I'll stick with the spiral flute taps. Any suggestions on the
best tapping fluid for the application?

Bob-

If you are tapping through holes, spiral-point taps are the way to go.
They push the chips ahead of the tap through the hole and are suitable
for machine tapping. The cutting fluid I use when mist or flood
cooling is unavailable is Relton "A-9". "Aluma-Tap" works too!

As far as ER collets, size the holder to the application. For
example, ER16 in MT1, ER25 in MT2, ER32 in R-8; though I did use ER11
for some very small drills in a 10 HP Okuma turret :-)

Regards,
Bob

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

Well, for now I'll stick with the spiral flute taps. Any suggestions
on the best tapping fluid for the application?

Aluminum likes a light oil. If you're doing it on CNC, a peanut oil-based
coolant works nicely. For hand operations, or drill press tapping with a
tapping head, I just use Tap Magic. It's NOT "magic", but it works nicely
on 6061-T6.

LLoyd

On Dec 29, 9:44*am, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
What is the best tapping oil/fluid for aluminum? *The oil I am using now is
a general purpose cutting machining oil. *I tap a lot of 10/32 holes and it
would be nice (for convenience) if I could get some more use of of my taps.
I can tap about 40-50 (+/-) holes through 1/2" 6061-T6 bar stock and the
clutch starts to slip on my tapping head. *If I try to get any more out of
it, I'll break the tap within another 2-5 holes. *Breaking a tap off in an
otherwise finished work piece really sucks.

When I replace taps I back off the clutch and then tap a hole. *I'll tighten
it a little at a time, and when the tap goes all the way through with out
slipping just barely I'll give it about 1/32 of a turn more. *That seems to
work pretty good with this head.

The other thing I wonder about. *I have been buying spiral flute taps. *Not
because I need to tap blind holes, but because gun taps seem to be hard to
find labeled clearly and correctly. *I know when I buy a spiral flute tap
its intended for machine tapping. *If I can find clearly marked gun taps for
machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral flute taps?

I've used Alumicut for threading operations. I had some gummy
extruded rod I needed threaded on the ends. Regular aluminum
threading compounds just left a ragged mess resembling a corncob.
Alumicut left nice shiney threads. Was good stuff. Just googled it,
looks like it's still available, might not have the same composition.
Was a light oily liquid, not like Tap-Magic was.

Stan

Bob La Londe wrote:

What is the best tapping oil/fluid for aluminum?
I use alum-tap, specifically formulated for tapping
in aluminum. it seems to work LOTS better than oils.
it is a clear, oily fluid. I hope it is still available.
I used to use a tapping head, but now have rigid tapping on
the mill. I tap small holes up to 1200 RPM.

Jon

Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been buying spiral flute taps.
Not because I need to tap blind holes, but because gun taps seem to be
hard to
find labeled clearly and correctly.Spiral flute taps have a limit
on how deep they can go. It is usually stated at something like 2.5 x
starting hole diameter. I can usually go 4 - 5 times the diameter, but
eventually the chips foul up in the top of the hole. If you are going
deeper, especially with through holes, then use spiral POINT taps instead
of spiral FLUTE.

Jon

On 12/29/2011 11:44, Bob La Londe wrote:
What is the best tapping oil/fluid for aluminum? The oil I am using now
is a general purpose cutting machining oil. I tap a lot of 10/32 holes
and it would be nice (for convenience) if I could get some more use of
of my taps. I can tap about 40-50 (+/-) holes through 1/2" 6061-T6 bar
stock and the clutch starts to slip on my tapping head. If I try to get
any more out of it, I'll break the tap within another 2-5 holes.
Breaking a tap off in an otherwise finished work piece really sucks.

When I replace taps I back off the clutch and then tap a hole. I'll
tighten it a little at a time, and when the tap goes all the way through
with out slipping just barely I'll give it about 1/32 of a turn more.
That seems to work pretty good with this head.

The other thing I wonder about. I have been buying spiral flute taps.
Not because I need to tap blind holes, but because gun taps seem to be
hard to find labeled clearly and correctly. I know when I buy a spiral
flute tap its intended for machine tapping. If I can find clearly marked
gun taps for machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral
flute taps?





Use roll form taps. Heavy oil. Way better tap life. Use correct size
drill for roll forming. 1 or 2 thousandths makes a BIIIIIIG difference
in tap life.



--
Steve Walker
(remove brain when replying)

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:09:16 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:jdi5di
:

If I can find clearly marked gun taps for
machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral flute taps?


Bob, they might or might not be stronger, depending upon the web
thickness, but they aren't suitable for machine tapping.

You need a tap that will neatly clear the chips -- that's exactly what
spiral taps do; they cut the chips, then wind them up out of the hole
like a drill bit would, instead of just packing them in the flutes, or
worse, pushing them ahead where they can induce even more binding on
future revolutions.

Stick with the spiral ones, and consider that a tapping head's clutch is
_meant_ to slip when you've over-torqued. If you break a tap with a
tapping head (in a rigid setup), then you've got the clutch too tight.
The reversing feature is there to help clear the hole when necessary.

LLoyd

He might also consider a thread FORMING tap when dealing with aluminum.
No chips or other Stuff and work nicely with tappers, as long as the
proper hole size is drilled

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 2011-12-29, Bob La Londe wrote:
What is the best tapping oil/fluid for aluminum? The oil I am using now is
a general purpose cutting machining oil.

Probably WD-40 or kerosene would be better for aluminum than
that.

But have you tried the TapMagic for aluminum? One thing *not*
to use for aluminum (if you can find it) is the original TapMagic for
steel. The current version is fine but the original (really great for
steel) uses 1,1,1 trichloroethane (IIRC) -- use that on aluminum and
your tap and the hole will start smoking. (I know, because I tried it
decades ago with a sample bottle of the TapMagic.) The original *can*
be found, but it is difficult.

I tap a lot of 10/32 holes and it
would be nice (for convenience) if I could get some more use of of my taps.
I can tap about 40-50 (+/-) holes through 1/2" 6061-T6 bar stock and the
clutch starts to slip on my tapping head. If I try to get any more out of
it, I'll break the tap within another 2-5 holes. Breaking a tap off in an
otherwise finished work piece really sucks.

Yes, it does. And with the spiral taps which you say you use,
the best style of broken tap extractor does not work.

When I replace taps I back off the clutch and then tap a hole. I'll tighten
it a little at a time, and when the tap goes all the way through with out
slipping just barely I'll give it about 1/32 of a turn more. That seems to
work pretty good with this head.

That sounds like what TapMatic described in their instructions,
and what I do.

The other thing I wonder about. I have been buying spiral flute taps. Not
because I need to tap blind holes, but because gun taps seem to be hard to
find labeled clearly and correctly. I know when I buy a spiral flute tap
its intended for machine tapping. If I can find clearly marked gun taps for
machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral flute taps?

How do you have difficulty recognizing gun taps? Straight
flutes (usually two flutes until you get up to 3/8" or larger), with the
first few threads having an angle ground on the flutes to push the chips
ahead of the tap.

There are various coatings on the taps for different materials.
Black oxide, bright ground, TiN (not tin), and likely even Boron
Carbide. One of those is the best for the aluminum and the oxide
coating which the tap has to cut though to get to the aluminum. If you
are almost always tapping 6061-T6, call one of the good makers like
Cleveland and get what they advise -- both which particular taps, and
what tapping fluid. It may cost more per tap -- but I'll bet that they
last longer and cost less per hole.

You say "bar stock". Is that round which you are drilling and
tapping end on, or rectangular or square stock. In the former case, you
are tapping through virgin aluminum without oxides, but unless you part
off first, you are tapping blind holes. :-)

And -- out of curiosity -- have you tried the combination spiral
tap and drill? I've used them in 6061-T6 (though not as many holes as
you have since I am just doing hobby projects), but it works great with
the TapMagic for aluminum in a Tapmatic tapping head. Saves a lot of
tool changes or running the same workpiece through the machine twice. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2011-12-29, Bob La Londe wrote:
What is the best tapping oil/fluid for aluminum? The oil I am using now
is
a general purpose cutting machining oil.

Probably WD-40 or kerosene would be better for aluminum than
that.

But have you tried the TapMagic for aluminum? One thing *not*
to use for aluminum (if you can find it) is the original TapMagic for
steel. The current version is fine but the original (really great for
steel) uses 1,1,1 trichloroethane (IIRC) -- use that on aluminum and
your tap and the hole will start smoking. (I know, because I tried it
decades ago with a sample bottle of the TapMagic.) The original *can*
be found, but it is difficult.

WD-40 actually works pretty good for aluminum, I don't currently use that,
but I may go back to it. I didn't mention it as an option because I am
familiar with the stock "WD sucks for everything!" response often seen in
this group. LOL. I'll look for TapMagic and see what it costs, and compare
tap life if I do.


I tap a lot of 10/32 holes and
it
would be nice (for convenience) if I could get some more use of of my
taps.
I can tap about 40-50 (+/-) holes through 1/2" 6061-T6 bar stock and the
clutch starts to slip on my tapping head. If I try to get any more out
of
it, I'll break the tap within another 2-5 holes. Breaking a tap off in
an
otherwise finished work piece really sucks.

Yes, it does. And with the spiral taps which you say you use,
the best style of broken tap extractor does not work.

If I am lucky it breaks with enough of the tap sticking out the back of the
work piece to grab with pliers. Otherwise the work piece goes in the
recycle bin or gets side for personal use.

When I replace taps I back off the clutch and then tap a hole. I'll
tighten
it a little at a time, and when the tap goes all the way through with out
slipping just barely I'll give it about 1/32 of a turn more. That seems
to
work pretty good with this head.

That sounds like what TapMatic described in their instructions,
and what I do.

I think it might have been some of your comments that led me to that setup
procedure.

The other thing I wonder about. I have been buying spiral flute taps.
Not
because I need to tap blind holes, but because gun taps seem to be hard
to
find labeled clearly and correctly. I know when I buy a spiral flute tap
its intended for machine tapping. If I can find clearly marked gun taps
for
machine tapping would they be stronger than the spiral flute taps?

How do you have difficulty recognizing gun taps? Straight
flutes (usually two flutes until you get up to 3/8" or larger), with the
first few threads having an angle ground on the flutes to push the chips
ahead of the tap.

The problem is I have to "order" them, and often the descriptions just
aren't clear and some resellers even call taps by what I think is the wrong
name. If I could just walk into a local store and inspect them I wouldn't
have any problems.


There are various coatings on the taps for different materials.
Black oxide, bright ground, TiN (not tin), and likely even Boron
Carbide. One of those is the best for the aluminum and the oxide
coating which the tap has to cut though to get to the aluminum. If you
are almost always tapping 6061-T6, call one of the good makers like
Cleveland and get what they advise -- both which particular taps, and
what tapping fluid. It may cost more per tap -- but I'll bet that they
last longer and cost less per hole.


So far I have just used bright finish. No coatings, but I may try some at
some point.

You say "bar stock". Is that round which you are drilling and
tapping end on, or rectangular or square stock.

Usually X x Y x .500 flat, but sometimes X x Y x .750 or 1.00 surfaced on
one face. I doubt I am tapping through much oxide coating except maybe
where the tap exits the back of the piece. It gets milled and marked for
drilling on the mill. Then it gets drilled and tapped as soon as it comes
off.

In the former case, you
are tapping through virgin aluminum without oxides, but unless you part
off first, you are tapping blind holes. :-)

And -- out of curiosity -- have you tried the combination spiral
tap and drill?

I have not. I have looked at a few. They intimidate me. LOL.

I've used them in 6061-T6 (though not as many holes as
you have since I am just doing hobby projects), but it works great with
the TapMagic for aluminum in a Tapmatic tapping head. Saves a lot of
tool changes or running the same workpiece through the machine twice. :-)

I bought a desktop 12 speed drill press that holds my tapping head as a
dedicated machine with the speed set moderately slow (750 I think). I drill
all my smaller holes (F and smaller) on my old floor drill press, and keep
the speed set fairly high. I do all my tapping on the desktop, and the
noname mill drill I picked up a while ago (last year?) gets dedicated for
larger holes. Usually with a collet in a collet chuck I leave in it.. As I
mentioned before the noname isn't a great mill, but it's a pretty good drill
press as compared to my actual drill presses. Not much in the way of
tooling changes that way. I just carry the piece(s) from one machine to the
next. I don't machine for a living so I try to make the best of the time I
have in the shop, and this actually works out pretty well.

Good Luck,

Thank you, and as always I appreciate everybody's help and perspective.

DoN.

Bob

On 2011-12-30, Bob La Londe wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2011-12-29, Bob La Londe wrote:
What is the best tapping oil/fluid for aluminum? The oil I am using now
is
a general purpose cutting machining oil.

Probably WD-40 or kerosene would be better for aluminum than
that.

But have you tried the TapMagic for aluminum? One thing *not*

[ ... ]

WD-40 actually works pretty good for aluminum, I don't currently use that,
but I may go back to it. I didn't mention it as an option because I am
familiar with the stock "WD sucks for everything!"

Well ... it sucks as a normal oil or a rust preventive, but it
pretty good for cleaning water off metal, and as a cutting fluid for
aluminum. (Kerosene should be just about the same, but I've not tried
it yet.)

response often seen in
this group. LOL. I'll look for TapMagic and see what it costs, and compare
tap life if I do.

O.K. I've got some of the "for aluminum" TapMagic, and a little
of the original formula (I think that there is a modern formula which is
not the "for aluminum" as well, but if I'm not tapping aluminum, I prefer
the original formula. It worked really nicely with 1/2-20 taps in 3/4"
thick mild steel in the drill press.

BTW I just got through modifying that drill press to use a 3-phase motor
and a VFD to give me slower speeds when needed (the pulleys
don't go slow enough for a 5/8" drill in steel, let alone for
hole saws in steel. :-) It was a Taiwanese made floor standing
one with a 5/8" chuck and 16 speeds. Here is the URL for the
mod:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/DrillPress-VFD/index.html

Oh yes -- the normal chuck on it is a Jacobs keyless -- sort of
a clone of the Albrecht -- but I'll have to swap back to the original
5/8" Jacobs clone (or a smaller Jacobs) for using left-hand drills,
because most keyless chucks release in reverse. :-)

[ ... ]

Yes, it does. And with the spiral taps which you say you use,
the best style of broken tap extractor does not work.

If I am lucky it breaks with enough of the tap sticking out the back of the
work piece to grab with pliers. Otherwise the work piece goes in the
recycle bin or gets side for personal use.

Hmm ... weld a nut onto the back of the tap to back it out?

When I replace taps I back off the clutch and then tap a hole. I'll
tighten
it a little at a time, and when the tap goes all the way through with out
slipping just barely I'll give it about 1/32 of a turn more. That seems
to
work pretty good with this head.

That sounds like what TapMatic described in their instructions,
and what I do.

I think it might have been some of your comments that led me to that setup
procedure.

O.K. And I got them from the downloadable instruction manual. :-)

[ ... ]

How do you have difficulty recognizing gun taps? Straight
flutes (usually two flutes until you get up to 3/8" or larger), with the
first few threads having an angle ground on the flutes to push the chips
ahead of the tap.

The problem is I have to "order" them, and often the descriptions just
aren't clear and some resellers even call taps by what I think is the wrong
name. If I could just walk into a local store and inspect them I wouldn't
have any problems.

O.K. If the catalog calls them either "gun taps" or "spiral
point taps", they should be what you want. Some use one name, some use
the other, and some may use both names to be sure of catching you. ;-)

And go for HSS -- just in case someone is making them in high
carbon steel. :-)

There are various coatings on the taps for different materials.
Black oxide, bright ground, TiN (not tin), and likely even Boron
Carbide. One of those is the best for the aluminum and the oxide
coating which the tap has to cut though to get to the aluminum. If you
are almost always tapping 6061-T6, call one of the good makers like
Cleveland and get what they advise -- both which particular taps, and
what tapping fluid. It may cost more per tap -- but I'll bet that they
last longer and cost less per hole.


So far I have just used bright finish. No coatings, but I may try some at
some point.

Find out what the manufacturer suggests for the aluminum you are
tapping.

You say "bar stock". Is that round which you are drilling and
tapping end on, or rectangular or square stock.

Usually X x Y x .500 flat, but sometimes X x Y x .750 or 1.00 surfaced on
one face. I doubt I am tapping through much oxide coating except maybe
where the tap exits the back of the piece. It gets milled and marked for
drilling on the mill. Then it gets drilled and tapped as soon as it comes
off.

O.K. My combination drill/tap (1/4-20) I was using in 1/2" x
3.5" 6061-T6 (or was it T651?), and I was using them with the for
aluminum TapMagic. Just make sure that there is enough clearance on the
bottom so you don't put divots in your drill press table. I was using a
lever locking drill press vise with shoulders to hold the aluminum high
enough so there was no problem -- and plenty of clearance between the
round rods that the movable jaw slides on.

In the former case, you
are tapping through virgin aluminum without oxides, but unless you part
off first, you are tapping blind holes. :-)

And -- out of curiosity -- have you tried the combination spiral
tap and drill?

I have not. I have looked at a few. They intimidate me. LOL.

Just make sure you have the clearance and the TapMagic for
aluminum and you should be fine. The TapMagic works for the drilling
too. I forget what spindle RPM I was using -- probably the fastest
available from the rear belt with the front belt on the bottom step,
which is somewhere in the middle of the speed range, I think.

O.K. I just went down and checked (after eating dinner), and it
was at 850 RPM, which is a reasonable speed for both the drill part and
the tap part. :-)

I've used them in 6061-T6 (though not as many holes as
you have since I am just doing hobby projects), but it works great with
the TapMagic for aluminum in a Tapmatic tapping head. Saves a lot of
tool changes or running the same workpiece through the machine twice. :-)

I bought a desktop 12 speed drill press that holds my tapping head as a
dedicated machine with the speed set moderately slow (750 I think). I drill
all my smaller holes (F and smaller) on my old floor drill press, and keep
the speed set fairly high. I do all my tapping on the desktop, and the
noname mill drill I picked up a while ago (last year?) gets dedicated for
larger holes. Usually with a collet in a collet chuck I leave in it.. As I
mentioned before the noname isn't a great mill, but it's a pretty good drill
press as compared to my actual drill presses. Not much in the way of
tooling changes that way. I just carry the piece(s) from one machine to the
next. I don't machine for a living so I try to make the best of the time I
have in the shop, and this actually works out pretty well.

Good Luck,

Thank you, and as always I appreciate everybody's help and perspective.

You're welcome.

And best of luck in the next year,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---