Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on the
first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have been
running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures have been
faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings actually melting the
nose out of the router case (nylon press fit busing) Each one seems to last
less than the last with my most recent one failing at about 250 hours.

I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower of
the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced bearings on
some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but once it
overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not economically. I
did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the bearing rides in and
replace it with a home made aluminum one that would transfer heat better.

The VFD controlled spindles will have less down time (no brushes), but I am
concerned that I'll have to redo all my calculations for lower spindle speed
(max of 24K) and I still need to know if the bearings will hold up longer,
and if they will fail in a less catastrophic and more predictable manner.
They cost more, but if I get more work out of them it might be worth it.

This just goes to show that those accountants who control the quality of
products are worth every penny they're paid.
Sadly, it's the destruction of a good name. They (manufacturers) just don't
GAF anymore.

You could (I know, I've seen examples of your work) machine the router
housing end/bearing support section out of aluminum and make the part so the
bearing can be swapped almost effortlessly (well simply), and use quality
bearings intended for high speeds (not 10-for-$1 skate bearings).

--
WB
..........


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on the
first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have been
running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures have
been faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings actually
melting the nose out of the router case (nylon press fit busing) Each one
seems to last less than the last with my most recent one failing at about
250 hours.

I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower of
the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced bearings on
some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but once it
overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not economically.
I did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the bearing rides in and
replace it with a home made aluminum one that would transfer heat better.

The VFD controlled spindles will have less down time (no brushes), but I
am concerned that I'll have to redo all my calculations for lower spindle
speed (max of 24K) and I still need to know if the bearings will hold up
longer, and if they will fail in a less catastrophic and more predictable
manner. They cost more, but if I get more work out of them it might be
worth it.

"Wild_Bill" fired this volley in
news
bad stuff....

Bob, et al,

I have a friend who owns a 5x9 CNC flatbed router. He chose from the
beginning to spend $2200 on an Italian high-speed head and VFD.

He's got 12K hours on the machine now (seven years plus, 8 hours a day),
and nary a glitch. It's still probably good for another 5 years,
according to the manufacturer's specs. FWIW, it doesn't "sing" any more
than it did the day he plugged it in.

LLoyd

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
news
This just goes to show that those accountants who control the quality of
products are worth every penny they're paid.
Sadly, it's the destruction of a good name. They (manufacturers) just
don't GAF anymore.

You could (I know, I've seen examples of your work) machine the router
housing end/bearing support section out of aluminum and make the part so
the bearing can be swapped almost effortlessly (well simply), and use
quality bearings intended for high speeds (not 10-for-$1 skate bearings).

I considered making an aluminum insert to replace the nylon one so its metal
to metal which will transfer heat better. I also thought about making my
own spindle cartridge with an off board belt drive, but figuring out which
bearings to use is a real bear. Also weight is an issue for me. Neither
of my smaller machines can really handle a 15 pound spindle assembly. Its
one of the reasons I'm not running the stock spindle (that and the 10K top
speed) on the Taig.

I appreciate the confidence, and the feedback.

Bob



--
WB
.........


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on
the first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have
been running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures
have been faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings
actually melting the nose out of the router case (nylon press fit busing)
Each one seems to last less than the last with my most recent one failing
at about 250 hours.

I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower
of the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced
bearings on some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but
once it overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not
economically. I did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the
bearing rides in and replace it with a home made aluminum one that would
transfer heat better.

The VFD controlled spindles will have less down time (no brushes), but I
am concerned that I'll have to redo all my calculations for lower spindle
speed (max of 24K) and I still need to know if the bearings will hold up
longer, and if they will fail in a less catastrophic and more predictable
manner. They cost more, but if I get more work out of them it might be
worth it.

In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on the
first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have been
running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures have been
faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings actually melting the
nose out of the router case (nylon press fit busing) Each one seems to last
less than the last with my most recent one failing at about 250 hours.

Are you driving them harder? ie, have you optimized production to the
point where they work harder and die sooner, or are the programs
/feedrates the same and they really are just making them worse and worse
(believable, just asking...)

I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower of
the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced bearings on
some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but once it
overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not economically. I
did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the bearing rides in and
replace it with a home made aluminum one that would transfer heat better.

Not familiar with the Bosch colt, but if the design hasn't changed much
since I bought mine, there's a reasonable amount of metal (and
replaceable parts) in a good old PC690 - which I use as the spindle in
my CNC, but it's wood CNC, mostly, so....if you are not maxing the
power on a (web says) 5.6 amp colt, an 11 amp PC690 should be plenty of
power, and likely costs somewhat less than an 890... No plastic in the
nose of a 690, as far as I recall.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on
the
first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have been
running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures have
been
faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings actually melting
the
nose out of the router case (nylon press fit busing) Each one seems to
last
less than the last with my most recent one failing at about 250 hours.

Are you driving them harder? ie, have you optimized production to the
point where they work harder and die sooner, or are the programs

No, I have definitely changed the way I machine over the last year. I tend
to cut deeper at a much slower feed rate. My end mills last longer, and I
remove more material per hour that way. It is possible that I might by
pushing them too hard when I run a .125 end mill, but I would think the
smaller ones would be more likely to break than put too much load on the
spindle bearings. My calculations still show low fractional horsepower
requirements.

/feedrates the same and they really are just making them worse and worse
(believable, just asking...)

I believe they are not using as good of bearings. The ones I replace the
bearings on BEFORE they cook I get much longer run time out of.


I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

I have been looking at the PC 890, but atleast one person reported that they
had more runout.



One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower
of
the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced bearings
on
some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but once it
overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not economically.
I
did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the bearing rides in and
replace it with a home made aluminum one that would transfer heat better.

Not familiar with the Bosch colt, but if the design hasn't changed much
since I bought mine, there's a reasonable amount of metal (and
replaceable parts) in a good old PC690 - which I use as the spindle in
my CNC, but it's wood CNC, mostly, so....if you are not maxing the
power on a (web says) 5.6 amp colt, an 11 amp PC690 should be plenty of
power, and likely costs somewhat less than an 890... No plastic in the
nose of a 690, as far as I recall.

I looked at the 690 too. I'll have to change my relays though for any
larger router. I have 10 amp 48 volt relays controlling my spindle and
coolant pump.

Thanks for the feedback.

Bob La Londe wrote:

I believe they are not using as good of bearings. The ones I replace the
bearings on BEFORE they cook I get much longer run time out of.


How about putting better bearings in a brand new one, and logging the
hours with a running time meter? If you can get a good idea of bearing
life, change them as preventative maintenance when they hit around 75%.
It's also possible that the nylon insert deforms, and makes the bearings
gun hotter.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Bob La Londe wrote:

I believe they are not using as good of bearings. The ones I replace the
bearings on BEFORE they cook I get much longer run time out of.


How about putting better bearings in a brand new one, and logging the
hours with a running time meter?

I had considered that. Time and distance is built into Mach 3.

If you can get a good idea of bearing
life, change them as preventative maintenance when they hit around 75%.

and that I was trying to do, but they kept failing quicker and quicker.

It's also possible that the nylon insert deforms, and makes the bearings
gun hotter.

I had not considered that.

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Bob La Londe wrote:

I believe they are not using as good of bearings. The ones I replace the
bearings on BEFORE they cook I get much longer run time out of.


How about putting better bearings in a brand new one, and logging the
hours with a running time meter?

I had considered that. Time and distance is built into Mach 3.

If you can get a good idea of bearing
life, change them as preventative maintenance when they hit around 75%.

and that I was trying to do, but they kept failing quicker and quicker.

It's also possible that the nylon insert deforms, and makes the bearings
gun hotter.

I had not considered that.


Failure analysis was part of my job at several companies so I try to
find the reason why we saw common failures.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on the
first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have been
running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures have
been faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings actually
melting the nose out of the router case (nylon press fit busing) Each one
seems to last less than the last with my most recent one failing at about
250 hours.

I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower of
the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced bearings on
some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but once it
overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not economically.
I did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the bearing rides in and
replace it with a home made aluminum one that would transfer heat better.

The VFD controlled spindles will have less down time (no brushes), but I
am concerned that I'll have to redo all my calculations for lower spindle
speed (max of 24K) and I still need to know if the bearings will hold up
longer, and if they will fail in a less catastrophic and more predictable
manner. They cost more, but if I get more work out of them it might be
worth it.




I just started looking at high speed spindles on eBay. What drive do they
need? I need to spin a 1/32" x 6" cut-off wheel to trim wire filled end
brushes.

"Tom Gardner" fired this volley in
:

I just started looking at high speed spindles on eBay. What drive do
they need? I need to spin a 1/32" x 6" cut-off wheel to trim wire
filled end brushes.


Tom, most of them want a 0-400Hz VFD. Just match to the wattage of the
motor.

LLoyd

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on
the first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have
been running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures
have been faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings
actually melting the nose out of the router case (nylon press fit busing)
Each one seems to last less than the last with my most recent one failing
at about 250 hours.

I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower
of the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced
bearings on some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but
once it overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not
economically. I did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the
bearing rides in and replace it with a home made aluminum one that would
transfer heat better.

The VFD controlled spindles will have less down time (no brushes), but I
am concerned that I'll have to redo all my calculations for lower spindle
speed (max of 24K) and I still need to know if the bearings will hold up
longer, and if they will fail in a less catastrophic and more predictable
manner. They cost more, but if I get more work out of them it might be
worth it.




I just started looking at high speed spindles on eBay. What drive do they
need? I need to spin a 1/32" x 6" cut-off wheel to trim wire filled end
brushes.

They use a VFD. Single phase in and 3 phase out at variable frequency from
0-400 hz. There are a couple outfits who sell them as packages with spindle
and VFD control. Most of the VFDs can be controlled off Mach 3 or EMC 2
with just a little figuring out.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Ok, The Bosch Colts seem to be getting worse. The first couple I used
easily ran over 750 hours continuous duty. I think I got over 1000 on
the first one. At the price I just replaced them. The last few have
been running progressively less hours before failure, and the failures
have been faster and more catastrophic with over heating bearings
actually melting the nose out of the router case (nylon press fit
busing) Each one seems to last less than the last with my most recent
one failing at about 250 hours.

I'm looking for an affordable replacement.

Another similar, but better router. Maybe a PC 890?

One of the import 3 phase VFD controlled water cooled spindles?

A bigger router might be ok although I am not maxing out the horsepower
of the Colt. Just wearing out the bearings. Yes I have replaced
bearings on some, and the replacement bearings usually last longer, but
once it overheats and melts out it can't be fixed again. Well, not
economically. I did consider trying to remove the nylon bushing the
bearing rides in and replace it with a home made aluminum one that would
transfer heat better.

The VFD controlled spindles will have less down time (no brushes), but I
am concerned that I'll have to redo all my calculations for lower
spindle speed (max of 24K) and I still need to know if the bearings will
hold up longer, and if they will fail in a less catastrophic and more
predictable manner. They cost more, but if I get more work out of them
it might be worth it.




I just started looking at high speed spindles on eBay. What drive do
they need? I need to spin a 1/32" x 6" cut-off wheel to trim wire filled
end brushes.

They use a VFD. Single phase in and 3 phase out at variable frequency
from 0-400 hz. There are a couple outfits who sell them as packages with
spindle and VFD control. Most of the VFDs can be controlled off Mach 3 or
EMC 2 with just a little figuring out.

Looking at a PC (computer) radiator and pump if I go that way for cooling my
spindle(s).