I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:26:27 -0600
Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.
snip

Maybe it is just me... but some images of what you currently have would
be really helpful in coming up with some different ideas or inspiration
that you could ponder upon. I have some rough ideas of what your
landing gear looks like from past descriptions, but that could be all
wrong

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

================================================== ==============

Anneal: Get it dull red, stick it in some ashes or powdered lime. Ashes will
be better with music wire. Lime might actually re-quench it, if the wire is
thin.

Draw: For music wire, drawing it locally, I heat a piece of steel rod to
red, lay it against the music wire; draw to the color you want; and
water-quench *fast*. If you're heating just the end and if you have an
electric stove top, you can just lay it on a burner coil.

Here's a color chart:

http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQ-article...0anvilfire.com

The colors are really not that clear. They're more like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Te...s_in_steel.jpg

1095 is close to music wire.

Music wire should be shiny enough to see the colors without filing. If you
have to clean it, I'd use some 300/400 grit wet/dry sandpaper rather than a
file.

To safely thread it with a die, I'd go for at least dark blue.

Good luck.

(BTW, this is not the best way to anneal or draw plain carbon steel in
thicker sections. But the better methods aren't going to be very practical
with wire.)

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:06:10 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:26:27 -0600
Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.
snip

Maybe it is just me... but some images of what you currently have would
be really helpful in coming up with some different ideas or inspiration
that you could ponder upon. I have some rough ideas of what your landing
gear looks like from past descriptions, but that could be all wrong

This is the "ugly" wheel installation, not even dressed up by using a
proper set screw (those particular collars are metric, and I have no
metric set screws). The only ones that are uglier use ugly wheels.

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/wheel.jpg

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:28 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then
letting it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball
methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

================================================== ==============

Anneal: Get it dull red, stick it in some ashes or powdered lime. Ashes
will be better with music wire. Lime might actually re-quench it, if the
wire is thin.

Draw: For music wire, drawing it locally, I heat a piece of steel rod to
red, lay it against the music wire; draw to the color you want; and
water-quench *fast*. If you're heating just the end and if you have an
electric stove top, you can just lay it on a burner coil.

Here's a color chart:

http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQ-article...odyName=/FAQs/
temper_colors_hardness.htm&titleName=Temper%20Colo rs%20and%20Steel%
20Hardness%20:%20anvilfire.com

The colors are really not that clear. They're more like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Te...s_in_steel.jpg

1095 is close to music wire.

Music wire should be shiny enough to see the colors without filing. If
you have to clean it, I'd use some 300/400 grit wet/dry sandpaper rather
than a file.

To safely thread it with a die, I'd go for at least dark blue.

Good luck.

(BTW, this is not the best way to anneal or draw plain carbon steel in
thicker sections. But the better methods aren't going to be very
practical with wire.)

So if I just heat it to dull red and let it air-cool, will that be fast
enough that it'll actually quench, even with it being carbon steel?

Strength in this spot is absolutely not an issue: the landing gear needs
to be very springy close to the center of the plane, with the needed
strength dropping off the closer you get to the wheel -- by the time
you're on that side of the wheel, it could no stronger than soft
aluminum, and you could safely retain it with a cotter pin and washer
(which is why I'm contemplating drilling little holes).

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/wheel.jpg

--
www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:28 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then
letting it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball
methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

================================================== ==============

Anneal: Get it dull red, stick it in some ashes or powdered lime. Ashes
will be better with music wire. Lime might actually re-quench it, if the
wire is thin.

Draw: For music wire, drawing it locally, I heat a piece of steel rod to
red, lay it against the music wire; draw to the color you want; and
water-quench *fast*. If you're heating just the end and if you have an
electric stove top, you can just lay it on a burner coil.

Here's a color chart:

http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQ-article...odyName=/FAQs/
temper_colors_hardness.htm&titleName=Temper%20Colo rs%20and%20Steel%
20Hardness%20:%20anvilfire.com

The colors are really not that clear. They're more like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Te...s_in_steel.jpg

1095 is close to music wire.

Music wire should be shiny enough to see the colors without filing. If
you have to clean it, I'd use some 300/400 grit wet/dry sandpaper rather
than a file.

To safely thread it with a die, I'd go for at least dark blue.

Good luck.

(BTW, this is not the best way to anneal or draw plain carbon steel in
thicker sections. But the better methods aren't going to be very
practical with wire.)

================================================== ========

So if I just heat it to dull red and let it air-cool, will that be fast
enough that it'll actually quench, even with it being carbon steel?

It depends on the thickness. After seeing your photo, I'd say it probably
will NOT quench in air. It looks like it's maybe 1/8" or so, right?

It's hard NOT to quench a piece of, say, 0.020" wire. But thick wire should
be OK in air. To be safe, scrounge some ashes from a wood fire or a charcoal
grill. I keep a 3-lb. coffee can full of ashes just for little jobs like
that.

Strength in this spot is absolutely not an issue: the landing gear needs
to be very springy close to the center of the plane, with the needed
strength dropping off the closer you get to the wheel -- by the time
you're on that side of the wheel, it could no stronger than soft
aluminum, and you could safely retain it with a cotter pin and washer
(which is why I'm contemplating drilling little holes).

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/wheel.jpg

--
www.wescottdesign.com

'Should be no problem to cool that in air. And, from the colors, you'll be
able to tell hard far up the wire you've softened it.

--
Ed Huntress

Tim Wescott Inscribed thus:

Strength in this spot is absolutely not an issue: the landing gear
needs to be very springy close to the center of the plane, with the
needed strength dropping off the closer you get to the wheel -- by the
time you're on that side of the wheel, it could no stronger than soft
aluminum, and you could safely retain it with a cotter pin and washer
(which is why I'm contemplating drilling little holes).

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/wheel.jpg

Just an idea. Use one or a pair of heatsink insulators like those used
for mounting power transistors and a dab of hot melt to secure.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:41:26 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:28 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they
epoxy on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then
letting it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball
methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and
sticks, I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for
the job...

--
www.wescottdesign.com

================================================== ==============

Anneal: Get it dull red, stick it in some ashes or powdered lime. Ashes
will be better with music wire. Lime might actually re-quench it, if
the wire is thin.

Draw: For music wire, drawing it locally, I heat a piece of steel rod
to red, lay it against the music wire; draw to the color you want; and
water-quench *fast*. If you're heating just the end and if you have an
electric stove top, you can just lay it on a burner coil.

Here's a color chart:

http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQ-article...odyName=/FAQs/
temper_colors_hardness.htm&titleName=Temper%20Colo rs%20and%20Steel%
20Hardness%20:%20anvilfire.com

The colors are really not that clear. They're more like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Te...s_in_steel.jpg

1095 is close to music wire.

Music wire should be shiny enough to see the colors without filing. If
you have to clean it, I'd use some 300/400 grit wet/dry sandpaper
rather than a file.

To safely thread it with a die, I'd go for at least dark blue.

Good luck.

(BTW, this is not the best way to anneal or draw plain carbon steel in
thicker sections. But the better methods aren't going to be very
practical with wire.)

================================================== ========

So if I just heat it to dull red and let it air-cool, will that be fast
enough that it'll actually quench, even with it being carbon steel?

It depends on the thickness. After seeing your photo, I'd say it
probably will NOT quench in air. It looks like it's maybe 1/8" or so,
right?

It's hard NOT to quench a piece of, say, 0.020" wire. But thick wire
should be OK in air. To be safe, scrounge some ashes from a wood fire or
a charcoal grill. I keep a 3-lb. coffee can full of ashes just for
little jobs like that.

1/8", yup. I'll try some test pieces, and see what I can see.

I've suddenly got this insane notion to try drilling and tapping for 2-56
hardware -- I think I need to go lie down until the feeling passes.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:56:07 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:


1/8", yup. I'll try some test pieces, and see what I can see.

I've suddenly got this insane notion to try drilling and tapping for 2-56
hardware -- I think I need to go lie down until the feeling passes.

http://www.newmantools.com/taps/micro.htm#taps

0000-160?

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

Way back in my model airplane days (c. early/mid 60's)... seems like we
would find (or make) a brass washer that fit snug over the end of the
axel; put on the wheel, a thin 'shirtboard' type cardboard 'washer' to
act as a spacer, then solder the on the washer with the soldering gun.
Once cool, the cardboard spacer was torn out. If one were to mess with
the axle length, find the right washer and really get everything super
clean before soldering, they'd look very professional with the end of
the axle not even visible. Last for eons too. You could even R&R the
wheel assy without much trouble.

These were large control line models, and the axle's were probably on
the order of at least .125"; maybe even a little larger in some cases.
Wheel hubs were aluminum. I recall never having any solder other than
60/40, and a little white metal tub of that 'no-corrode' (sp?) rosin
flux (which I really haven't made a good dent in to this day).

I recall neither collars or epoxy... well, some people might have been
using epoxy back then, but certainly not for wheel retention. (Ambroid
and white glue were the adhesives of the day, neither of which bonded
well to metals.)

IIRC, some axel/wheel assy's required both inboard, and outboard washers.

Practice with some scrap first.

Good luck!

Erik

Hey Tim

How a bout using wire-nuts? Gives a nice sort of "streamlineing" to
the wheels.

Brian Lawson
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:26:27 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

On 11/17/2011 12:26 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...


I have found that filing a flat on the music wire will make it hold the
collars much better. A little blue locktite finishes that job. Most of
my music wiare landing gear has been 1/8" or 5/32" wire. Wheel pants go
a long way to hiding ugly hardware.

BobH

On 11/17/2011 4:58 PM, Erik wrote:
In ,
Tim wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

Way back in my model airplane days (c. early/mid 60's)... seems like we
would find (or make) a brass washer that fit snug over the end of the
axel; put on the wheel, a thin 'shirtboard' type cardboard 'washer' to
act as a spacer, then solder the on the washer with the soldering gun.
Once cool, the cardboard spacer was torn out. If one were to mess with
the axle length, find the right washer and really get everything super
clean before soldering, they'd look very professional with the end of
the axle not even visible. Last for eons too. You could even R&R the
wheel assy without much trouble.

These were large control line models, and the axle's were probably on
the order of at least .125"; maybe even a little larger in some cases.
Wheel hubs were aluminum. I recall never having any solder other than
60/40, and a little white metal tub of that 'no-corrode' (sp?) rosin
flux (which I really haven't made a good dent in to this day).

I recall neither collars or epoxy... well, some people might have been
using epoxy back then, but certainly not for wheel retention. (Ambroid
and white glue were the adhesives of the day, neither of which bonded
well to metals.)

IIRC, some axel/wheel assy's required both inboard, and outboard washers.

Practice with some scrap first.

Good luck!

Erik
I soldered them on back in the 50 & 60's too.

Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...


Carbide micro bit and a pin?

Or how about a light groove all around and using split ring retainer
washers. (spiral plastic that will lock into the groove.)

--
Steve W.

On 11/17/2011 21:26, Tim Wescott wrote:
The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and sticks,
I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for the job...

Loctite (sleeve)bearing retainer would hold it..

Something like Loctite 638:
http://www.sjgogo.com/pdf/638-en.pdf

Depending on how permanent you want it to be, select a compound
that releases by heating or such..

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:58:34 -0800, Erik wrote:

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they
epoxy on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then
letting it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball
methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and
sticks, I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for
the job...

Way back in my model airplane days (c. early/mid 60's)... seems like we
would find (or make) a brass washer that fit snug over the end of the
axel; put on the wheel, a thin 'shirtboard' type cardboard 'washer' to
act as a spacer, then solder the on the washer with the soldering gun.
Once cool, the cardboard spacer was torn out. If one were to mess with
the axle length, find the right washer and really get everything super
clean before soldering, they'd look very professional with the end of
the axle not even visible. Last for eons too. You could even R&R the
wheel assy without much trouble.

These were large control line models, and the axle's were probably on
the order of at least .125"; maybe even a little larger in some cases.
Wheel hubs were aluminum. I recall never having any solder other than
60/40, and a little white metal tub of that 'no-corrode' (sp?) rosin
flux (which I really haven't made a good dent in to this day).

I recall neither collars or epoxy... well, some people might have been
using epoxy back then, but certainly not for wheel retention. (Ambroid
and white glue were the adhesives of the day, neither of which bonded
well to metals.)

IIRC, some axel/wheel assy's required both inboard, and outboard
washers.

Practice with some scrap first.

I should try it. Seems like I'd just succeed in melting my wheel hub.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On 2011-11-17, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:28 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they epoxy
on washers.

[ ... ]

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool.

[ ... ]

Anneal: Get it dull red, stick it in some ashes or powdered lime. Ashes
will be better with music wire. Lime might actually re-quench it, if the
wire is thin.

Draw: For music wire, drawing it locally, I heat a piece of steel rod to
red, lay it against the music wire; draw to the color you want; and
water-quench *fast*. If you're heating just the end and if you have an
electric stove top, you can just lay it on a burner coil.

Here's a color chart:

[ ... ]

(BTW, this is not the best way to anneal or draw plain carbon steel in
thicker sections. But the better methods aren't going to be very
practical with wire.)

So if I just heat it to dull red and let it air-cool, will that be fast
enough that it'll actually quench, even with it being carbon steel?

It might be. Certainly with it clamped close in the vise, you
will have a lot of cooling through conduction to the vise jaws.

If you're going to heat sink it in the vise, start by getting it
quite hot with the torch flame, then move the torch away and back for
shorter and shorter times back and longer and longer times away to
gradually cool it.

Strength in this spot is absolutely not an issue: the landing gear needs
to be very springy close to the center of the plane, with the needed
strength dropping off the closer you get to the wheel -- by the time
you're on that side of the wheel, it could no stronger than soft
aluminum, and you could safely retain it with a cotter pin and washer
(which is why I'm contemplating drilling little holes).

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/wheel.jpg

What size wire is this? I'm not sure how small a cotter key cna
be purchased. You might wind up having to make your own.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
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In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:58:34 -0800, Erik wrote:

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they
epoxy on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off when
you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job, some of
which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot more than it
is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then
letting it cool? Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball
methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and
sticks, I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for
the job...

Way back in my model airplane days (c. early/mid 60's)... seems like we
would find (or make) a brass washer that fit snug over the end of the
axel; put on the wheel, a thin 'shirtboard' type cardboard 'washer' to
act as a spacer, then solder the on the washer with the soldering gun.
Once cool, the cardboard spacer was torn out. If one were to mess with
the axle length, find the right washer and really get everything super
clean before soldering, they'd look very professional with the end of
the axle not even visible. Last for eons too. You could even R&R the
wheel assy without much trouble.

These were large control line models, and the axle's were probably on
the order of at least .125"; maybe even a little larger in some cases.
Wheel hubs were aluminum. I recall never having any solder other than
60/40, and a little white metal tub of that 'no-corrode' (sp?) rosin
flux (which I really haven't made a good dent in to this day).

I recall neither collars or epoxy... well, some people might have been
using epoxy back then, but certainly not for wheel retention. (Ambroid
and white glue were the adhesives of the day, neither of which bonded
well to metals.)

IIRC, some axel/wheel assy's required both inboard, and outboard
washers.

Practice with some scrap first.

I should try it. Seems like I'd just succeed in melting my wheel hub.

With plastic wheels/hubs, I'd guess they'd melt for sure. You have to
pour some good heat into that music wire. All my wheel soldering
'experience' was with rubber tired Aluminum wheels.

Erik

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 04:13:57 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:

On 2011-11-17, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:12:28 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn wire), and
either holds the wheels on with these really ugly collars, or they
epoxy on washers.

[ ... ]

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool.

[ ... ]

Anneal: Get it dull red, stick it in some ashes or powdered lime.
Ashes will be better with music wire. Lime might actually re-quench
it, if the wire is thin.

Draw: For music wire, drawing it locally, I heat a piece of steel rod
to red, lay it against the music wire; draw to the color you want; and
water-quench *fast*. If you're heating just the end and if you have an
electric stove top, you can just lay it on a burner coil.

Here's a color chart:

[ ... ]

(BTW, this is not the best way to anneal or draw plain carbon steel in
thicker sections. But the better methods aren't going to be very
practical with wire.)

So if I just heat it to dull red and let it air-cool, will that be fast
enough that it'll actually quench, even with it being carbon steel?

It might be. Certainly with it clamped close in the vise, you
will have a lot of cooling through conduction to the vise jaws.

If you're going to heat sink it in the vise, start by getting it
quite hot with the torch flame, then move the torch away and back for
shorter and shorter times back and longer and longer times away to
gradually cool it.

Strength in this spot is absolutely not an issue: the landing gear
needs to be very springy close to the center of the plane, with the
needed strength dropping off the closer you get to the wheel -- by the
time you're on that side of the wheel, it could no stronger than soft
aluminum, and you could safely retain it with a cotter pin and washer
(which is why I'm contemplating drilling little holes).

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/wheel.jpg

What size wire is this? I'm not sure how small a cotter key cna
be purchased. You might wind up having to make your own.

1/8, and I have plenty of moosik wire going down to 0.015", so making my
own key is a piece of cake.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:41:46 -0800, Erik wrote:

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:58:34 -0800, Erik wrote:

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their
landing gear out of music wire (0.9% carbon, low alloy, hard drawn
wire), and either holds the wheels on with these really ugly
collars, or they epoxy on washers.

The washers won't come off when you want them to, and do come off
when you don't. I'm thinking up a few schemes to do a nicer job,
some of which would go a lot nicer if the steel were drawn a lot
more than it is. I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard
steel, nor do I want to try drilling .050" holes.

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both
to hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get
with a propane torch, and let it cool. To just draw it, should I do
something like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or
purple, then letting it cool? Or is there a better way to do this
by eyeball methods?

Comments appreciated. I know how to make it work with rocks and
sticks, I'd just like pointers on using hammers and screwdrivers for
the job...

Way back in my model airplane days (c. early/mid 60's)... seems like
we would find (or make) a brass washer that fit snug over the end of
the axel; put on the wheel, a thin 'shirtboard' type cardboard
'washer' to act as a spacer, then solder the on the washer with the
soldering gun. Once cool, the cardboard spacer was torn out. If one
were to mess with the axle length, find the right washer and really
get everything super clean before soldering, they'd look very
professional with the end of the axle not even visible. Last for eons
too. You could even R&R the wheel assy without much trouble.

These were large control line models, and the axle's were probably on
the order of at least .125"; maybe even a little larger in some
cases. Wheel hubs were aluminum. I recall never having any solder
other than 60/40, and a little white metal tub of that 'no-corrode'
(sp?) rosin flux (which I really haven't made a good dent in to this
day).

I recall neither collars or epoxy... well, some people might have
been using epoxy back then, but certainly not for wheel retention.
(Ambroid and white glue were the adhesives of the day, neither of
which bonded well to metals.)

IIRC, some axel/wheel assy's required both inboard, and outboard
washers.

Practice with some scrap first.

I should try it. Seems like I'd just succeed in melting my wheel hub.

With plastic wheels/hubs, I'd guess they'd melt for sure. You have to
pour some good heat into that music wire. All my wheel soldering
'experience' was with rubber tired Aluminum wheels.

An aluminum hub would be no problem. Modern wheels are mostly plastic
hubs (which is certainly nice and light), and most of those are probably
the highest-quality styrene that can be had when buying from the lowest
bidder.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Nov 17, 2:26*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:

So: how to anneal, and how to just draw the temper a bit more? *For
annealing I expect that I can just clamp the thing in my vise (both to
hold and to limit heat travel), get the end as hot as it'll get with a
propane torch, and let it cool. *To just draw it, should I do something
like filing a spot shiny, then heating it to blue or purple, then letting
it cool? *Or is there a better way to do this by eyeball methods?


--www.wescottdesign.com

Have you ever welded a bandsaw blade? I would use a step down
transformer and run current through the wire.
If you have a push button switch you can pulse the current so that it
cools slowly.


Dan

I have used music wire for model helicopter flybars and threaded the ends
with a die. I just heated up the tips red hot with a propane torch and did
my best to let it cool as slow as I could. I think a lot of the strength in
the music wire is from the drawing work hardening stresses. Note that even
after my method of annealing, the music wire still didn't thread real
easily. You could try heating the end to cherry red and then placing the
wire in a preheated oven to help it cool slowly, maybe even preheat the wire
to help it cool more slowly.

RogerN

On Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:26:27 AM UTC-8, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm building model airplanes. Nearly everyone bends up their landing
gear out of music wire
... I don't want to go using my nice 5-44 die on hard steel, nor do I
want to try drilling .050" holes.

How about making a brass axle, tapped as appropriate, drilling it down
the center for the wire? You can soft-solder the wire into
the brass, it'll hold its temper fine at soft-solder heat.

RogerN wrote:

I just heated up the tips red hot with a propane torch and did my
best to let it cool as slow as I could. I think a lot of the
strength in the music wire is from the drawing work hardening
stresses. Note that even after my method of annealing, the music
wire still didn't thread real easily. You could try heating the
end to cherry red and then placing the wire in a preheated oven to
help it cool slowly, maybe even preheat the wire to help it cool
more slowly.
RogerN

I believe the trouble you're having with it not getting soft enough
isn't from the rate of cooling as much as not getting it hot enough
to start with. 1200F will draw all the work hardening out of it and
doesn't matter how quickly it cools from 1200F ...because it won't
quench harden from there.

Not picking on you, Roger it's just your post was the best one to
quote.

I've softened up just the tips of pieces like that by standing them
up in watery-sand. Tough to get them hot enough that way tho.

http://www.efunda.com/processes/heat.../annealing.cfm

The higher the alloying and the softer you want it, the longer it
takes at heat. In this case, try one minute and see how it goes?

Alvin in AZ