That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that there
is no support for the theory that crime declines because more people are
carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has said this is a
reason for the drop in crime and that is because there is no evidence
showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there is
no increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and nobody is
getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get permits it's
clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

On Sep 19, 2:09*pm, Hawke wrote:
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that there
is no support for the theory that crime declines because more people are
carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has said this is a
reason for the drop in crime and that is because there is no evidence
showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there is
no increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and nobody is
getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get permits it's
clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

Everyone carries a cell phone, including still and video, and audio
recording ability.
Video cameras are everywhere. Crimes of opportunity are on the
decline.

Corporate crime is on the upswing. Look at the credit card companies,
raping the consumer.
Look at Goldman Sachs raping the world. Tell us stories about the
phone companies screwing over everyone. Cell phone companies jamming
everyone with outrageous fees...
All of the big companies have lobbyists, and immunity.

Common thieves have video surveillance and instant cell phones
everywhere to call for help.

On Sep 19, 3:09*pm, Hawke wrote:
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.


Hawke

One theory is that unwed mothers who lack the resources to raise kids
with moral standards have had abortions. So there are fewer badly
raised children around.

See Freakonomics.

Dan

Cross-Slide wrote:
On Sep 19, 2:09*pm, Hawke wrote:

That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why?

Because as a result of Obamanomics. nobody's got anything left to steal.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Consider the double strike law. Do two and get caught with another
and zap you go to prison.

That has done more to quell crime as anything. CCW's also help -
undercover cops and you and I. But the double strike laws move
people out of states into less stressful conditions. Louisiana sued
Texas when those thugs and lawbreakers moved to Louisiana or moved back.

Texas suggested stronger law enforcement and it would help if needed.
They moved out of Louisiana.

So the issue isn't simple - but a complex range of assistance.

California went broke building Jails every 6 months there for several years.

Martin

On 9/19/2011 2:09 PM, Hawke wrote:
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that there
is no support for the theory that crime declines because more people are
carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has said this is a
reason for the drop in crime and that is because there is no evidence
showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there is
no increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and nobody is
getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get permits it's
clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics show
that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not sure why.
They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation, and more and
smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not mentioned was
because of the gains in the number of people across the country with
concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that there
is no support for the theory that crime declines because more people are
carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has said this is a
reason for the drop in crime and that is because there is no evidence
showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there is no
increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and nobody is
getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get permits it's
clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

Check the stats and how they were gathered. Lots of countries are having
declining crime stats because they no longer count thefts of low(er) value
as a crime. Reporting of theft is only valid if you have insurance, its
pointless
reporting if you will get nothing in return. Criminal activity tens years
ago is
no longer a crime, eg personal use of marijuana. Theft by corporations has
been moved to civil actions with police only acting if a bank or insurance
company has been defrauded by a customer, but not the other way around.

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:09:56 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that there
is no support for the theory that crime declines because more people are
carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has said this is a
reason for the drop in crime and that is because there is no evidence
showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there is
no increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and nobody is
getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get permits it's
clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

The bad guys can't afford the gas for their ghetto cruisers to take
them out for their crime cruises. Thank Obama for that.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 10:38:47 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics show
that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not sure why.
They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation, and more and
smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not mentioned was
because of the gains in the number of people across the country with
concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that there
is no support for the theory that crime declines because more people are
carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has said this is a
reason for the drop in crime and that is because there is no evidence
showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there is no
increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and nobody is
getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get permits it's
clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

Check the stats and how they were gathered. Lots of countries are having
declining crime stats because they no longer count thefts of low(er) value
as a crime. Reporting of theft is only valid if you have insurance, its
pointless
reporting if you will get nothing in return. Criminal activity tens years
ago is
no longer a crime, eg personal use of marijuana. Theft by corporations has
been moved to civil actions with police only acting if a bank or insurance
company has been defrauded by a customer, but not the other way around.

http://www.kc3.com/CCDW_Stats/fla_model.htm

"The Florida Model"



The following information concerning carrying concealed firearms (CCW)
statistics may be of interest to listeners of "Tom Gresham's Gun Talk."
These facts debunk the distortions and outright lies fostered by the
gun-grabbers. It should be noted, that almost without exception, the
media is equally as guilty in disseminating these distortions and
falsehoods. These figures are compiled from the FBI's annual report on
crime (Uniform Crime Reports), and from other law enforcement agencies.

"Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely
limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for
self-defense". (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992)

The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states
(798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per
100,000).

The Homicide Rate is 49% higher in the restrictive states (10.1 per
100,000) than in the states with less restrictive CCW laws (6.8 per
100,000).

The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the restrictive states (289.7 per
100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000).

The Aggravated Assault Rate is 15% higher in the restrictive states
(455.9 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (398.3 per
100,000).

Using FBI data (1992), homicide trends in the 17 states with less
restrictive CCW laws compare favorably against national trends, and
almost all CCW permittees are law-abiding.

Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while
the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 - 2/28/94 (over 6
years) Florida issued 204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked
because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in
which guns were present (not necessarily used).

Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the
criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times
annually.

By contrast, there are about 579,000 violent crimes committed annually
with firearms of all types. Seventy percent of violent crimes are
committed by 7% of criminals, including repeat offenders, many of whom
the courts place on probation after conviction, and felons that are
paroled before serving their full time behind bars.

Two-thirds of self-protective firearms uses are with handguns.

99.9% of self-defense firearms uses do not result in fatal shootings of
criminals, an important factor ignored in certain "studies" that are
used to claim that guns are more often misused than used for
self-protection.

Of incarcerated felons surveyed by the Department of Justice, 34% have
been driven away, wounded, or captured by armed citizens; 40% have
decided against committing crimes for fear their would-be victims were
armed.
Other Concealed Carry Facts

With adoption of CCW by Louisiana in 1996, 30 states have CCW laws
requiring the issuance of permits to carry concealed firearms for
self-defense to citizens who meet fair and reasonable state standards.
Vermont, which ranks near the bottom in violent crime rates year-in and
year-out, allows firearms to be carried concealed without a permit.

In recent years NRA successfully fought for the adoption of favorable
CCW laws now on the books in Florida (1987), Idaho (1990, amended 1991),
Mississippi (1990), Montana (1991), and Oregon (1990). In recent
legislative sessions, proposals for similar CCW laws have progressed in
Alaska, Colorado, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas.

Anti-gun forces oppose CCW with a variety of arguments, ranging from
deliberate misrepresentations of commonly available crime data to
"studies" pretending to show that private ownership of firearms leads to
death and injury rather than providing protection to the owner.

1. Firearms ownership opponents claim that "violent crime" went up in
Florida since that state enacted CCW legislation in 1987, a misleading
statement for multiple reasons:

Florida's homicide rate has declined 21% since adopting CCW in 1987.

No comparison of aggravated assault, robbery, and rape (99.3% of Florida
violent crimes) beginning before 1988 is valid, according to the Florida
Dept. of Law Enforcement. In 1988, Florida changed its method of
compiling crime statistics.

In Florida, as in the U.S., more than 70% of violent crimes do not
involve guns. Violent crime rates, therefore, don't necessarily reflect
violent gun-related crime trends. According to the most recent FBI
Uniform Crime Reports (1992), nationwide firearms were used in the four
violent crimes that make up the total "Violent Crime" category, as
follows: Aggravated Assault (58% of volent crimes) -- firearms used in
25%; Robberies (35% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 41%; Rapes
(6% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5% - 10% (survey
data); and Homicides (1% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 68%.

In Florida: Aggravated Assaults (64% of violent crimes) -- firearms used
in 25%; Robberies (30% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 37%; Rapes
(4% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in an estimated 5% - 10% (survey
data); and Homicides (0.7% of violent crimes) -- firearms used in 61%.

2. Anti-gunners cite "studies" they claim show that firearms kept at
home are "43 times more likely" to be used to kill family members than
be used for self- defense. (Other "studies" claim different ratios.) The
43:1 claim, based upon a small-scale study of King County (Seattle) and
Shelby County (Memphis), is a fraud, because it counts as self-defense
gun uses only those cases in which a criminals were killed in the
defender's home. Approximately 99.9% of all defensive gun uses are not
fatal shootings, however -- criminals are usually frightened off, held
at bay, or non-fatally wounded. Also, many defensive firearms uses occur
away from home. Further, suicides were counted as "family member
killings" in the "study,"elevating that number more than 500%.
Unfortunately, some of these "studies" are funded with taxpayer dollars,
through grants from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, a
division of the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.

Since adopting CCW in 1987 Florida's homicide rate has decreased 21%
while the U.S. Rate has risen 12%.


Area 1987 1992 %Change

Florida 11.4 9.0 -21%

U.S.A. 8.3 9.2 +12%

Nationwide, homicide rates peaked in 1980 - 1981. After fluctuating, but
dropping overall thereafter, both the U.S. and Florida homicide rates
began to rise in 1986. Florida adopted CCW in 1987, and its homicide
rate began to decline, dropping 21% 1987 - 1992. The U.S. rate continued
its upward trend, rising 12% in the 1987 - 1992 period. (Source: FBI
Uniform Crime Reports)
Florida Concealed Carry Licensees Do Not Commit Crimes

Pop. - 13,277,000 Floridians Who Own Guns (Percent) All -- 62.7% Male --
68.8% Female -- 57.3% Floridians Who Own Guns (Number): 8,325,000
Permits issued: 204,108 Permits Revoked Due To Crime: 17 (0.008%)

The latest report from the Florida Department of State, covering a
6-year, 4-month period from 10/01/87 (start-up date) through 02/28/94,
shows that 204,108 CCW permits have been issued -- 69% new permits; 31%
permit renewals. Only one-quarter of 1% of permit applications have been
rejected due to an applicant's criminal history; two-tenths of 1% have
been rejected due to an "incomplete application." One hundred
eighty-seven (0.1%) permits have been revoked because the permittee
committed some kind of crime, though not necessarily a gun-related or
violent crime, after permit issuance. After receiving permits, only 17
(0.008%) individuals committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which
firearms were present, though not necessarily used. By contrast, in 1992
there were about 46,000 gun-related violent crimes (assaults, robberies,
homicides and rapes) in Florida, based upon FBI Uniform Crime Reports
supplementary reports and reported crime totals.





"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

On 9/19/2011 1:58 PM, wrote:
On Sep 19, 3:09 pm, wrote:
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.


Hawke

One theory is that unwed mothers who lack the resources to raise kids
with moral standards have had abortions. So there are fewer badly
raised children around.

See Freakonomics.

Dan



I read it.

Hawke

On 9/19/2011 5:38 PM, Why are people so cruel wrote:

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that
there is no support for the theory that crime declines because more
people are carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has
said this is a reason for the drop in crime and that is because there
is no evidence showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there
is no increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and
nobody is getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get
permits it's clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

Check the stats and how they were gathered. Lots of countries are having
declining crime stats because they no longer count thefts of low(er) value
as a crime. Reporting of theft is only valid if you have insurance, its
pointless
reporting if you will get nothing in return. Criminal activity tens
years ago is
no longer a crime, eg personal use of marijuana. Theft by corporations has
been moved to civil actions with police only acting if a bank or insurance
company has been defrauded by a customer, but not the other way around.



The stats came from the FBI. Both violent crimes were down and so were
property crimes. The point is the experts are scratching their heads on
this. They have several theories but they don't have any conclusive
evidence that substantiates any of them. The one thing no one is
attributing the downturn to is the increase in CCW permits across the
country. That is what interested me the most because several people have
argued with me when I said it had nothing to do with CCW permits. I'm
not surprised none of them has commented.

Hawke

In article om,
says...

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics show
that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not sure why.
They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation, and more and
smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not mentioned was
because of the gains in the number of people across the country with
concealed carry permits.

This is for those who have argued against me when I have said that there
is no support for the theory that crime declines because more people are
carrying concealed carry weapons. None of the experts has said this is a
reason for the drop in crime and that is because there is no evidence
showing that theory has any validity.

Crime has dropped everywhere including cities like L.A., where there is no
increase in people with CCW permits. So if crime drops and nobody is
getting a permit and crime drops where lots of people get permits it's
clear that the permits are not changing the statistics.

So does anyone still want to try and make the case that crime is down
because of the increase in people with CCW permits? Or are you finally
willing to admit being wrong? Oh yeah, and that I was right.

Hawke

Check the stats and how they were gathered. Lots of countries are having
declining crime stats because they no longer count thefts of low(er) value
as a crime. Reporting of theft is only valid if you have insurance, its
pointless
reporting if you will get nothing in return. Criminal activity tens years
ago is
no longer a crime, eg personal use of marijuana. Theft by corporations has
been moved to civil actions with police only acting if a bank or insurance
company has been defrauded by a customer, but not the other way around.

The stats in the US are gathered the same way they have always been
gathered. All categories of crime are decreasing, including murder,
other violent crime, rape, and motor vehicle theft.

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
On 9/19/2011 1:58 PM, wrote:
On Sep 19, 3:09 pm, wrote:
That's the headline today; Crime in decline, but why? FBI statistics
show that crime has fallen for eight straight years. Experts are not
sure why. They have some theories; an aging population, low inflation,
and more and smarter policing are some. The one theory that was not
mentioned was because of the gains in the number of people across the
country with concealed carry permits.


Hawke

One theory is that unwed mothers who lack the resources to raise kids
with moral standards have had abortions. So there are fewer badly
raised children around.

See Freakonomics.

Dan



I read it.

Hawke

There is another theory with quite a bit of evidence to support it that the
reduction is due to the elimination of leaded gasoline. Here is the
abstract and paper

ABSTRACT
Childhood lead exposure can lead to psychological deficits that are strongly
associated with aggressive
and criminal behavior. In the late 1970s in the United States, lead was
removed from gasoline under
the Clean Air Act. Using the sharp state-specific reductions in lead
exposure resulting from this removal,
this article finds that the reduction in childhood lead exposure in the late
1970s and early 1980s is
responsible for significant declines in violent crime in the 1990s, and may
cause further declines into
the future. The elasticity of violent crime with respect to lead is
estimated to be approximately 0.8

http://www3.amherst.edu/~jwreyes/pap...BERWP13097.pdf

On 2011-09-20, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Cross-Slide wrote:

Everyone carries a cell phone, including still and video, and audio
recording ability.
Video cameras are everywhere. Crimes of opportunity are on the
decline.

Another theory is the legalization of abortion. Now there's a lot
fewer people who grew up as unwanted children.


This was popularized in Freakonomics and I find this to be an
interesting, and attractive, but unproven proposition.

i

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Everyone carries a cell phone, including still and video, and audio
recording ability.
Video cameras are everywhere. Crimes of opportunity are on the
decline.

Another theory is the legalization of abortion. Now there's a lot fewer
people who grew up as unwanted children.

And fewer offspring of the unwanted, etc, etc.

--Winston

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 13:13:28 -0500, Ignoramus19458
wrote:

On 2011-09-20, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Cross-Slide wrote:

Everyone carries a cell phone, including still and video, and audio
recording ability.
Video cameras are everywhere. Crimes of opportunity are on the
decline.

Another theory is the legalization of abortion. Now there's a lot
fewer people who grew up as unwanted children.


This was popularized in Freakonomics and I find this to be an
interesting, and attractive, but unproven proposition.

Prove him wrong, Ig. I dare ya.

--
A sound mind in a sound body is a short but full description
of a happy state in this world.
-- John Locke