Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it, in
1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded to
start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it, in
1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded to
start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Gunner

You may do better to have a mix of metric and Imperial sockets and try to
get the closest fit possible. The BSF sockets easily available are generally
1/16 " smaller than the BSW equivalent thread size. Biggest problem is that
its the thread form being measured and not the head size. God help you if
there is an Allen Bolt inside the engine (unlikely I know). I'd be inclined
to
use a handheld impact wrench (hammer type not air) to loosen all those
bolts. If they dont come loose then I'd whip the head offs with a grinder
and use a stud extractor. BIG problem will be replacing BSW bolts anywhere
nowadays.

I'd only use a six facetted socket to stop the socket turning on the nut as
with
the 12 facetted sockets.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:40:41 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it, in
1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded to
start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Gunner

You may do better to have a mix of metric and Imperial sockets and try to
get the closest fit possible. The BSF sockets easily available are generally
1/16 " smaller than the BSW equivalent thread size. Biggest problem is that
its the thread form being measured and not the head size. God help you if
there is an Allen Bolt inside the engine (unlikely I know). I'd be inclined
to
use a handheld impact wrench (hammer type not air) to loosen all those
bolts. If they dont come loose then I'd whip the head offs with a grinder
and use a stud extractor. BIG problem will be replacing BSW bolts anywhere
nowadays.

I'd only use a six facetted socket to stop the socket turning on the nut as
with
the 12 facetted sockets.

Ive tried "mixing" metric and Imperial. Nothing fits worth a ****.

Rather than using a grinder...shouldnt I use the proper box end wrench
and then..as a last resort....use something besides a grinder?

Like a Whitworth socket and an impact gun?

Or am I just being goofy here......?

I know it didnt work very well for a buddy who tried this with US
sockets and metric fasteners. Only a couple worked.



Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:40:41 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the
States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it, in
1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded to
start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Gunner

You may do better to have a mix of metric and Imperial sockets and try to
get the closest fit possible. The BSF sockets easily available are
generally
1/16 " smaller than the BSW equivalent thread size. Biggest problem is
that
its the thread form being measured and not the head size. God help you if
there is an Allen Bolt inside the engine (unlikely I know). I'd be
inclined
to
use a handheld impact wrench (hammer type not air) to loosen all those
bolts. If they dont come loose then I'd whip the head offs with a grinder
and use a stud extractor. BIG problem will be replacing BSW bolts anywhere
nowadays.

I'd only use a six facetted socket to stop the socket turning on the nut
as
with
the 12 facetted sockets.

Ive tried "mixing" metric and Imperial. Nothing fits worth a ****.

Rather than using a grinder...shouldnt I use the proper box end wrench
and then..as a last resort....use something besides a grinder?

Like a Whitworth socket and an impact gun?

Or am I just being goofy here......?

I know it didnt work very well for a buddy who tried this with US
sockets and metric fasteners. Only a couple worked.


I would imagine that available BSW box spanners would be worn to some
degree and likely have a similar amount of slop in them as do the near
fit mm and BSF. From memory are n't BSW bolts/nuts supposed to be
made from iron? and hence soft in comparison to the later steel mm/BSF
and the risk of rounding heads.

I have an old BSA Bantam with BSW (I think) bolts and nuts and I found
that using 1/4" drive sockets in both mm and BSF got a pretty close fit on
already worn heads. I used a 1/2" drive socket and rounded off a bolt head
- hence my advice about using the six facet sockets - and the small 1/4"
drives all have six facet sockets. Problem arises when you exceed 1/2"
or 13mm that are available in the 1/4" drive - maybe 3/8" drive sockets
would have a near fit?

I know that to make your own box spanners is not that difficult if you can
get hex bar to suit the head dimensions and steel tube to fit and a bit heat
and
hammering. I can see a commercial opportunity for a blacksmith here!! I
remember watching a blacksmith as a kid make box spanners to suit farm
machinery he was working on.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:25:53 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:40:41 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the
States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it, in
1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded to
start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Gunner

You may do better to have a mix of metric and Imperial sockets and try to
get the closest fit possible. The BSF sockets easily available are
generally
1/16 " smaller than the BSW equivalent thread size. Biggest problem is
that
its the thread form being measured and not the head size. God help you if
there is an Allen Bolt inside the engine (unlikely I know). I'd be
inclined
to
use a handheld impact wrench (hammer type not air) to loosen all those
bolts. If they dont come loose then I'd whip the head offs with a grinder
and use a stud extractor. BIG problem will be replacing BSW bolts anywhere
nowadays.

I'd only use a six facetted socket to stop the socket turning on the nut
as
with
the 12 facetted sockets.

Ive tried "mixing" metric and Imperial. Nothing fits worth a ****.

Rather than using a grinder...shouldnt I use the proper box end wrench
and then..as a last resort....use something besides a grinder?

Like a Whitworth socket and an impact gun?

Or am I just being goofy here......?

I know it didnt work very well for a buddy who tried this with US
sockets and metric fasteners. Only a couple worked.


I would imagine that available BSW box spanners would be worn to some
degree and likely have a similar amount of slop in them as do the near
fit mm and BSF. From memory are n't BSW bolts/nuts supposed to be
made from iron? and hence soft in comparison to the later steel mm/BSF
and the risk of rounding heads.

I have an old BSA Bantam with BSW (I think) bolts and nuts and I found
that using 1/4" drive sockets in both mm and BSF got a pretty close fit on
already worn heads. I used a 1/2" drive socket and rounded off a bolt head
- hence my advice about using the six facet sockets - and the small 1/4"
drives all have six facet sockets. Problem arises when you exceed 1/2"
or 13mm that are available in the 1/4" drive - maybe 3/8" drive sockets
would have a near fit?

I know that to make your own box spanners is not that difficult if you can
get hex bar to suit the head dimensions and steel tube to fit and a bit heat
and
hammering. I can see a commercial opportunity for a blacksmith here!! I
remember watching a blacksmith as a kid make box spanners to suit farm
machinery he was working on.

Perhaps its because others have used the wrong tools on your Bantam that
the heads are now the wrong sizes and are buggered up?

As for them being 1/4"..or 3/8"...or 1/2" drive...blink blink...Id have
to say thats a bit....odd.

You do know that the size of the socket is NOT dependant on the size of
the hole in the ass end...right?

As for making ones own box spanners and using hex stock as a
mandral....blink blink. I believe Ill pass unless Ive crashed on a
desert island someplace and my tools have been lost. And I find a source
of the right size hex, an anvil and a bit of steel for the tool..a
bellows, etc etc.

Id rather simply purchase/swap/trade for a set of the proper tools and
be done with it. The heads of the fasteners on my scooter are nice and
well defined..and Id like to keep them that way.



Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:27:08 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:25:53 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:40:41 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are
"Silverline" tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set
and am trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the
States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking
the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have
a few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools,
not total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc
either. Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK
supplier as we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals
you guys have, that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task.
There will be ones that are close and need to be opened out
slightly. For sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so
for the few you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got
it, in 1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be
rather important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the
first time. No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything
stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with
a file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I
proceeded to start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box
end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end
wrenches.

Gunner

You may do better to have a mix of metric and Imperial sockets and try
to get the closest fit possible. The BSF sockets easily available are
generally
1/16 " smaller than the BSW equivalent thread size. Biggest problem is
that
its the thread form being measured and not the head size. God help you
if there is an Allen Bolt inside the engine (unlikely I know). I'd be
inclined
to
use a handheld impact wrench (hammer type not air) to loosen all those
bolts. If they dont come loose then I'd whip the head offs with a
grinder and use a stud extractor. BIG problem will be replacing BSW
bolts anywhere nowadays.

I'd only use a six facetted socket to stop the socket turning on the
nut as
with
the 12 facetted sockets.

Ive tried "mixing" metric and Imperial. Nothing fits worth a ****.

Rather than using a grinder...shouldnt I use the proper box end wrench
and then..as a last resort....use something besides a grinder?

Like a Whitworth socket and an impact gun?

Or am I just being goofy here......?

I know it didnt work very well for a buddy who tried this with US
sockets and metric fasteners. Only a couple worked.


I would imagine that available BSW box spanners would be worn to some
degree and likely have a similar amount of slop in them as do the near
fit mm and BSF. From memory are n't BSW bolts/nuts supposed to be made
from iron? and hence soft in comparison to the later steel mm/BSF and
the risk of rounding heads.

I have an old BSA Bantam with BSW (I think) bolts and nuts and I found
that using 1/4" drive sockets in both mm and BSF got a pretty close fit
on already worn heads. I used a 1/2" drive socket and rounded off a bolt
head - hence my advice about using the six facet sockets - and the small
1/4" drives all have six facet sockets. Problem arises when you exceed
1/2" or 13mm that are available in the 1/4" drive - maybe 3/8" drive
sockets would have a near fit?

I know that to make your own box spanners is not that difficult if you
can get hex bar to suit the head dimensions and steel tube to fit and a
bit heat and
hammering. I can see a commercial opportunity for a blacksmith here!! I
remember watching a blacksmith as a kid make box spanners to suit farm
machinery he was working on.

Perhaps its because others have used the wrong tools on your Bantam that
the heads are now the wrong sizes and are buggered up?

As for them being 1/4"..or 3/8"...or 1/2" drive...blink blink...Id have
to say thats a bit....odd.

You do know that the size of the socket is NOT dependant on the size of
the hole in the ass end...right?

As for making ones own box spanners and using hex stock as a
mandral....blink blink. I believe Ill pass unless Ive crashed on a
desert island someplace and my tools have been lost. And I find a source
of the right size hex, an anvil and a bit of steel for the tool..a
bellows, etc etc.

Id rather simply purchase/swap/trade for a set of the proper tools and
be done with it. The heads of the fasteners on my scooter are nice and
well defined..and Id like to keep them that way.

So -- a solution involving a case of beer and some vice grips is
definitely out.

I think the best advise you got on shipping is the bit that I was going
to give you from the start -- contact the seller and ask. Some aren't
going to want to touch this with a ten foot pole. Others will happily
dive in.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:10:19 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it, in
1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded to
start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Gunner

Whitworth sizes are the size bolt that the nut that the wrench fits
is. (Welcome to the world of English Engineering :-)

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:05:18 -0500, Tim wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:27:08 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:25:53 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:40:41 +1000, "Why are people so cruel"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are
"Silverline" tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set
and am trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the
States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking
the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have
a few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools,
not total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc
either. Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK
supplier as we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals
you guys have, that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task.
There will be ones that are close and need to be opened out
slightly. For sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so
for the few you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got
it, in 1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be
rather important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the
first time. No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything
stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with
a file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I
proceeded to start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box
end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end
wrenches.

Gunner

You may do better to have a mix of metric and Imperial sockets and try
to get the closest fit possible. The BSF sockets easily available are
generally
1/16 " smaller than the BSW equivalent thread size. Biggest problem is
that
its the thread form being measured and not the head size. God help you
if there is an Allen Bolt inside the engine (unlikely I know). I'd be
inclined
to
use a handheld impact wrench (hammer type not air) to loosen all those
bolts. If they dont come loose then I'd whip the head offs with a
grinder and use a stud extractor. BIG problem will be replacing BSW
bolts anywhere nowadays.

I'd only use a six facetted socket to stop the socket turning on the
nut as
with
the 12 facetted sockets.

Ive tried "mixing" metric and Imperial. Nothing fits worth a ****.

Rather than using a grinder...shouldnt I use the proper box end wrench
and then..as a last resort....use something besides a grinder?

Like a Whitworth socket and an impact gun?

Or am I just being goofy here......?

I know it didnt work very well for a buddy who tried this with US
sockets and metric fasteners. Only a couple worked.


I would imagine that available BSW box spanners would be worn to some
degree and likely have a similar amount of slop in them as do the near
fit mm and BSF. From memory are n't BSW bolts/nuts supposed to be made
from iron? and hence soft in comparison to the later steel mm/BSF and
the risk of rounding heads.

I have an old BSA Bantam with BSW (I think) bolts and nuts and I found
that using 1/4" drive sockets in both mm and BSF got a pretty close fit
on already worn heads. I used a 1/2" drive socket and rounded off a bolt
head - hence my advice about using the six facet sockets - and the small
1/4" drives all have six facet sockets. Problem arises when you exceed
1/2" or 13mm that are available in the 1/4" drive - maybe 3/8" drive
sockets would have a near fit?

I know that to make your own box spanners is not that difficult if you
can get hex bar to suit the head dimensions and steel tube to fit and a
bit heat and
hammering. I can see a commercial opportunity for a blacksmith here!! I
remember watching a blacksmith as a kid make box spanners to suit farm
machinery he was working on.

Perhaps its because others have used the wrong tools on your Bantam that
the heads are now the wrong sizes and are buggered up?

As for them being 1/4"..or 3/8"...or 1/2" drive...blink blink...Id have
to say thats a bit....odd.

You do know that the size of the socket is NOT dependant on the size of
the hole in the ass end...right?

As for making ones own box spanners and using hex stock as a
mandral....blink blink. I believe Ill pass unless Ive crashed on a
desert island someplace and my tools have been lost. And I find a source
of the right size hex, an anvil and a bit of steel for the tool..a
bellows, etc etc.

Id rather simply purchase/swap/trade for a set of the proper tools and
be done with it. The heads of the fasteners on my scooter are nice and
well defined..and Id like to keep them that way.

So -- a solution involving a case of beer and some vice grips is
definitely out.

Indeed.


I think the best advise you got on shipping is the bit that I was going
to give you from the start -- contact the seller and ask. Some aren't
going to want to touch this with a ten foot pole. Others will happily
dive in.

I shall indeed do this.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:34:50 +0700, john B.
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:10:19 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.

Prices are all over the place..but not all that bad. Are "Silverline"
tools any good?

Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and am
trying to find the best bang for the buck.

And what is involved in shipping those tools from the UK to the States?

I would assume it would be the same as used motorcycle parts?

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc either.
Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK supplier as
we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you guys have,
that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it, in
1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?


You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded to
start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Gunner

Whitworth sizes are the size bolt that the nut that the wrench fits
is. (Welcome to the world of English Engineering :-)

Indeed it is.

Gunner, still scratching his noggin about hammering out his own box end
spanners from scrap steel and hex stock........

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:01:55 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:34:50 +0700, john B. johnbslocomb... wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:10:19 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.
....
Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and
am trying to find the best bang for the buck.
....
As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc
either. Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK
supplier as we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you
guys have, that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it,
in 1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?

You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W
for 3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8"
will be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a
5/8" socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin
slitting blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025"
with a ring clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig
tack, take off clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts.
Then turn smooth in lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

I can understand that given enough time..and enough files..I could
probably open up box end wrenches...

In fact..I do have (1) Whitworth open end wrench. its a SK..and its
marked 1/4..and fits a larger bolt head on the RE. Which I proceeded
to start rounding off. I did bust it loose with the box end.

Hence my concern about the fasteners on the bike and open end wrenches.

Whitworth sizes are the size bolt that the nut that the wrench fits is.
(Welcome to the world of English Engineering :-)

Indeed it is.

Gunner, still scratching his noggin about hammering out his own box end
spanners from scrap steel and hex stock........

--
jiw

James Waldby wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:01:55 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:34:50 +0700, john B. johnbslocomb... wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:10:19 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.
...
Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and
am trying to find the best bang for the buck.
...
As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc
either. Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK
supplier as we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you
guys have, that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it,
in 1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?

You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W
for 3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8"
will be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a
5/8" socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin
slitting blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025"
with a ring clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig
tack, take off clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts.
Then turn smooth in lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

Gah!

I think a better option would be to get some stainless shim/feeler stock
that is half the size difference thick, form it around a sample bolt
head to a hex shape, cut off the excess and super glue the liner in the
smaller 6 point socket.

"Pete C." wrote:

James Waldby wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:01:55 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:34:50 +0700, john B. johnbslocomb... wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:10:19 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.
...
Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and
am trying to find the best bang for the buck.
...
As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc
either. Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK
supplier as we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you
guys have, that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it,
in 1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?

You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W
for 3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8"
will be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a
5/8" socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin
slitting blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025"
with a ring clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig
tack, take off clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts.
Then turn smooth in lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

Gah!

I think a better option would be to get some stainless shim/feeler stock
that is half the size difference thick, form it around a sample bolt
head to a hex shape, cut off the excess and super glue the liner in the
smaller 6 point socket.

That should of course say "larger 6 point socket"

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:29:56 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:


http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W
for 3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8"
will be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a
5/8" socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin
slitting blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025"
with a ring clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig
tack, take off clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts.
Then turn smooth in lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

So this is somehow better..assuming it doesnt crack..then simply buying
a socket?

Now if that socket cracks while squeezing it....Id have to weld that up
too. So pretty soon that socket is looking like hammered **** and it
may or may not crack if I put some Ommph! on the handle.

Sigh..I guess I just dont have the pioneer spirit..the sense of
adventure...the ..well..I guess Im just a staid old fart who wants to
work on the bike..not build new tools before starting on the bike.

But Thanks! I definately keep that in mind! Im curious though..any
idea of what RC a good socket has.or a good box end? Just so I know how
many slitting saw blades to stock up on.

And the way to modify a box end would be to cut out a section..heat it
red hot..hammer it over a Whitworth bolt head until it fits..kinda
sorta..then weld it closed..then machine/file/grind all the sniggly
little bits that dont quite line up? Cool! Ill definately keep that in
mind. And of course..open end wrenches..that would be easy!

Much obliged....blink blink..

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:58:15 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


"Pete C." wrote:

James Waldby wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:01:55 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:34:50 +0700, john B. johnbslocomb... wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:10:19 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 22:43:40 +0100, David Billington wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:
Ive been browsing Ebay.UK and noticed a fair amount of Whitworth
tooling.
...
Im going to be needing an 8 or 9 piece "combination" wrench set and
am trying to find the best bang for the buck.
...
As no one else has responded from the UK yet so I'll chip in, I have a
few Silverline tools and they seem to be standard commodity tools, not
total crap, but not the high end stuff like Snap-on, Proto, etc
either. Regarding shipping you'll have to take that up with the UK
supplier as we don't have that flat rate USPS international deals you
guys have, that can work quite well.

I have to ask with the equipment and contacts you have why not just
adjust some US spanners that are readily available to the task. There
will be ones that are close and need to be opened out slightly. For
sockets I've not met one yet that can't be machined so for the few
you're likely to require why not adapt and make do.

Because not a nut has been turned on this bike since before I got it,
in 1971. And having box end wrenches would appear to me..to be rather
important while taking the old bitch apart ..at least..the first time.
No? Or should I take the chance of rounding everything stubborn..off?

You machine sockets? Really? How do you do this? Shaper? Hours with a
file?

http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W
for 3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8"
will be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a
5/8" socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin
slitting blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025"
with a ring clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig
tack, take off clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts.
Then turn smooth in lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

Gah!

I think a better option would be to get some stainless shim/feeler stock
that is half the size difference thick, form it around a sample bolt
head to a hex shape, cut off the excess and super glue the liner in the
smaller 6 point socket.

That should of course say "larger 6 point socket"

But! Its not all that bad an idea! Well done!

But..I think Ill simply buy a set of wrenches. Ive already got plenty of
projects at hand.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:07:20 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:29:56 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:

http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W for
3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8" will
be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a 5/8"
socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin slitting
blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025" with a ring
clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig tack, take off
clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts. Then turn smooth in
lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

So this is somehow better..assuming it doesnt crack..then simply buying
a socket?

In R.C.M, right. BTW, what head sizes actually appear on the bike?

Now if that socket cracks while squeezing it....Id have to weld that up
too. So pretty soon that socket is looking like hammered **** and it
may or may not crack if I put some Ommph! on the handle.

No, if it cracks when clamped, you picked the wrong socket size
to start out, so just pitch it and start over.

Sigh..I guess I just dont have the pioneer spirit..the sense of
adventure...the ..well..I guess Im just a staid old fart who wants to
work on the bike..not build new tools before starting on the bike.

But Thanks! I definitely keep that in mind! Im curious though..any
idea of what RC a good socket has.or a good box end? Just so I know how
many slitting saw blades to stock up on.

http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center/guide/selecting-proper-socket-your-power-tool
lists HRC43-45 for impact sockets and HRC47-49 for some other kinds.

And the way to modify a box end would be to cut out a section..heat
it red hot..hammer it over a Whitworth bolt head until it fits..kinda
sorta..then weld it closed..then machine/file/grind all the sniggly
little bits that dont quite line up? Cool! I'll definitely keep
that in mind. And of course..open end wrenches..that would be easy!

Cutting out one section of a box end (with 2 cuts) isn't going to
work because that will leave several wrong-length flats. If you
make 3 cuts (at corners 1,3,5) any exact length of side can be made
easily by grinding the pieces. However, unlike in the socket method,
there might not be a good way to hold the three pieces for welding.

If you have a spare deep wall impact socket sitting around, and a good
slitting saw, you could make the three cuts, decrease the socket size
a little via ring clamp, and try it out, without doing any welding.
Note, with deep wall sockets you can make the 3 cuts longer, so that
flex angle is smaller. Plus if you weld it, you get more welding
practice on the longer cuts.

--
jiw

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:07:20 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:29:56 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:

http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W for
3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8" will
be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a 5/8"
socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin slitting
blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025" with a ring
clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig tack, take off
clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts. Then turn smooth in
lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

So this is somehow better..assuming it doesnt crack..then simply buying
a socket?

In R.C.M, right. BTW, what head sizes actually appear on the bike?

Now if that socket cracks while squeezing it....Id have to weld that up
too. So pretty soon that socket is looking like hammered **** and it
may or may not crack if I put some Ommph! on the handle.

No, if it cracks when clamped, you picked the wrong socket size
to start out, so just pitch it and start over.

Sigh..I guess I just dont have the pioneer spirit..the sense of
adventure...the ..well..I guess Im just a staid old fart who wants to
work on the bike..not build new tools before starting on the bike.

But Thanks! I definitely keep that in mind! Im curious though..any
idea of what RC a good socket has.or a good box end? Just so I know how
many slitting saw blades to stock up on.

http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center/guide/selecting-proper-socket-your-power-tool
lists HRC43-45 for impact sockets and HRC47-49 for some other kinds.

And the way to modify a box end would be to cut out a section..heat
it red hot..hammer it over a Whitworth bolt head until it fits..kinda
sorta..then weld it closed..then machine/file/grind all the sniggly
little bits that dont quite line up? Cool! I'll definitely keep
that in mind. And of course..open end wrenches..that would be easy!

Cutting out one section of a box end (with 2 cuts) isn't going to
work because that will leave several wrong-length flats. If you
make 3 cuts (at corners 1,3,5) any exact length of side can be made
easily by grinding the pieces. However, unlike in the socket method,
there might not be a good way to hold the three pieces for welding.

If you have a spare deep wall impact socket sitting around, and a good
slitting saw, you could make the three cuts, decrease the socket size
a little via ring clamp, and try it out, without doing any welding.
Note, with deep wall sockets you can make the 3 cuts longer, so that
flex angle is smaller. Plus if you weld it, you get more welding
practice on the longer cuts.

--
jiw

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:07:20 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:29:56 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:

http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W for
3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8" will
be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a 5/8"
socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin slitting
blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025" with a ring
clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig tack, take off
clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts. Then turn smooth in
lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

So this is somehow better..assuming it doesnt crack..then simply buying
a socket?

In R.C.M, right. BTW, what head sizes actually appear on the bike?

Now if that socket cracks while squeezing it....Id have to weld that up
too. So pretty soon that socket is looking like hammered **** and it
may or may not crack if I put some Ommph! on the handle.

No, if it cracks when clamped, you picked the wrong socket size
to start out, so just pitch it and start over.

Sigh..I guess I just dont have the pioneer spirit..the sense of
adventure...the ..well..I guess Im just a staid old fart who wants to
work on the bike..not build new tools before starting on the bike.

But Thanks! I definitely keep that in mind! Im curious though..any
idea of what RC a good socket has.or a good box end? Just so I know how
many slitting saw blades to stock up on.

http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center/guide/selecting-proper-socket-your-power-tool
lists HRC43-45 for impact sockets and HRC47-49 for some other kinds.

And the way to modify a box end would be to cut out a section..heat
it red hot..hammer it over a Whitworth bolt head until it fits..kinda
sorta..then weld it closed..then machine/file/grind all the sniggly
little bits that dont quite line up? Cool! I'll definitely keep
that in mind. And of course..open end wrenches..that would be easy!

Cutting out one section of a box end (with 2 cuts) isn't going to
work because that will leave several wrong-length flats. If you
make 3 cuts (at corners 1,3,5) any exact length of side can be made
easily by grinding the pieces. However, unlike in the socket method,
there might not be a good way to hold the three pieces for welding.

If you have a spare deep wall impact socket sitting around, and a good
slitting saw, you could make the three cuts, decrease the socket size
a little via ring clamp, and try it out, without doing any welding.
Note, with deep wall sockets you can make the 3 cuts longer, so that
flex angle is smaller. Plus if you weld it, you get more welding
practice on the longer cuts.

--
jiw

On 06/29/2011 02:07 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:29:56 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:


http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W
for 3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8"
will be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a
5/8" socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin
slitting blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025"
with a ring clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig
tack, take off clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts.
Then turn smooth in lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

So this is somehow better..assuming it doesnt crack..then simply buying
a socket?

Now if that socket cracks while squeezing it....Id have to weld that up
too. So pretty soon that socket is looking like hammered **** and it
may or may not crack if I put some Ommph! on the handle.

Sigh..I guess I just dont have the pioneer spirit..the sense of
adventure...the ..well..I guess Im just a staid old fart who wants to
work on the bike..not build new tools before starting on the bike.

But Thanks! I definately keep that in mind! Im curious though..any
idea of what RC a good socket has.or a good box end? Just so I know how
many slitting saw blades to stock up on.

And the way to modify a box end would be to cut out a section..heat it
red hot..hammer it over a Whitworth bolt head until it fits..kinda
sorta..then weld it closed..then machine/file/grind all the sniggly
little bits that dont quite line up? Cool! Ill definately keep that in
mind. And of course..open end wrenches..that would be easy!

Much obliged....blink blink..

When I was younger I wouldn't hesitate to start a job by mining the ore
to make the steel to ... etc.. Now my tendency (unless I just need an
excuse to stay in the shop) is to think "hey -- I'm gonna _die_ before I
get this done, unless I get to the real job".

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:23:32 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 06/29/2011 02:07 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 14:29:56 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:


http://www.samstagsales.com/whitworth_table.htm has been mentioned
already. What sizes of sockets do you actually need for the Royal
Enfield? Pick out some size frequently used on the bike, eg 5/16 W
for 3/8" bolt, with heads 0.600" (15.24mm) flat-to-flat. An SAE 5/8"
will be too loose by some amount, let's say 0.025" (.635mm). Put a
5/8" socket into an index on a mill, and make 3 cuts with a thin
slitting blade so that the socket size can be squeezed down .025"
with a ring clamp (hose clamp). Check fit on some bolts, if ok tig
tack, take off clamp, recheck fit, if ok weld up the three cuts.
Then turn smooth in lathe, polish, chrome plate, etc.

So this is somehow better..assuming it doesnt crack..then simply buying
a socket?

Now if that socket cracks while squeezing it....Id have to weld that up
too. So pretty soon that socket is looking like hammered **** and it
may or may not crack if I put some Ommph! on the handle.

Sigh..I guess I just dont have the pioneer spirit..the sense of
adventure...the ..well..I guess Im just a staid old fart who wants to
work on the bike..not build new tools before starting on the bike.

But Thanks! I definately keep that in mind! Im curious though..any
idea of what RC a good socket has.or a good box end? Just so I know how
many slitting saw blades to stock up on.

And the way to modify a box end would be to cut out a section..heat it
red hot..hammer it over a Whitworth bolt head until it fits..kinda
sorta..then weld it closed..then machine/file/grind all the sniggly
little bits that dont quite line up? Cool! Ill definately keep that in
mind. And of course..open end wrenches..that would be easy!

Much obliged....blink blink..

When I was younger I wouldn't hesitate to start a job by mining the ore
to make the steel to ... etc.. Now my tendency (unless I just need an
excuse to stay in the shop) is to think "hey -- I'm gonna _die_ before I
get this done, unless I get to the real job".

Indeed. Oh yes indeed.

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
...
Gunner, still scratching his noggin about hammering out his own box end
spanners from scrap steel and hex stock........

My home-made box wrench for brake line fittings:
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...55378162487314
The two halves of the hex opening can be milled with an end mill.

I pressed copper water pipe into oversized sockets to make lug nut sockets
that won't damage the chrome. The copper lasts quite a while at 80 and 100
ft-lbs of torque. I pulled the wheels twice a year to check the brakes and
switch winter & summer tires.

AFAIK you forge a box wrench on a tapered hex mandrel. You may be able to do
most of the pounding on a square-section horn or stake and save the machined
hex for fitting. I've used a Grade 5 bolt head in the vise as the form to
hammer a hex shape.

jsw

On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:20:44 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
...
Gunner, still scratching his noggin about hammering out his own box end
spanners from scrap steel and hex stock........

My home-made box wrench for brake line fittings:
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...55378162487314
The two halves of the hex opening can be milled with an end mill.

Very nicely done!!


I pressed copper water pipe into oversized sockets to make lug nut sockets
that won't damage the chrome. The copper lasts quite a while at 80 and 100
ft-lbs of torque. I pulled the wheels twice a year to check the brakes and
switch winter & summer tires.

AFAIK you forge a box wrench on a tapered hex mandrel. You may be able to do
most of the pounding on a square-section horn or stake and save the machined
hex for fitting. I've used a Grade 5 bolt head in the vise as the form to
hammer a hex shape.

jsw


--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.

Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner wrote in message
...
...
Gunner, still scratching his noggin about hammering out his own box end
spanners from scrap steel and hex stock........

My home-made box wrench for brake line fittings:
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...55378162487314
The two halves of the hex opening can be milled with an end mill.

That is beautiful!
It needs to be an article in _The Home Shop Machinist_.

--Winston