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Trammed the mil yesterday
It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in
: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches Hardly done! G That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1" bit. That wouldn't give very pretty facing work. But that's just my opinion. I do have a question, though: Since yours is a fixed ram machine, how did you go about it? Did you follow the maintenance manuals, or come up with your own technique? That's a heavy head, and when you loosen the bolts, it wants to move all on its own. LLoyd |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok Shrug Gunner -- Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70... Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in : It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches Hardly done! G That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1" bit. Would you mind explaining that math? Not saying you are wrong, but it doesn't make sense to me. How can it be off true of .001 at 4 inches, and off true of .2 at 1 inch? |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Bob La Londe wrote: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in : It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches Hardly done! G That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1" bit. Would you mind explaining that math? Not saying you are wrong, but it doesn't make sense to me. How can it be off true of .001 at 4 inches, and off true of .2 at 1 inch? "tenths" refers to "ten thousandths" in a machining context. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
"T.Alan Kraus" fired this volley in news:4df8d9c2$0
: I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. Nope. Just turn it 180 degrees to check any reading. LLoyd |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok Shrug Gunner You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work of getting within .001 over 4 inches. I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. Karl |
Trammed the mil yesterday
"T.Alan Kraus" wrote: On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote: Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. Have you actually used one? |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 06/15/2011 07:53 AM, Ignoramus10056 wrote:
It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i The scheme I used is to use a CNC program to mill a shallow circular groove in a piece of scrap about as large as the machine can reach. On your machine, it might be about a 10" diameter circle. I position the spindle back to the center of the groove. Then, I mount a dial indicator on an arm and sweep the groove. Because my ways are worn, I get a bit of a saddle-shape, ie. a hump in one axis and a valley across the other. I try to straddle all these variations when tramming. This aligns the spindle to the XY plane of motion, not just to the surface of the table. Tramming your head is probably harder than mine. Jon |
Trammed the mil yesterday
"T.Alan Kraus" wrote in message
... On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote: Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. Nope. While its nice if they are the same its not necessary for them to be. You can make a home made one all wonky and have it work perfectly. Just set your manual zero indicator mark the same for both indicators at the same spot on the table. They can be within the range of the indicator off from each other and still work perfectly that way. It took me a while to get a reflexive feel for relative vs absolute measurement, but once I did life became a lot easier. I have a piece of square aluminum bar stock with threaded holes all over it I use for all kinds of things now. I just bolt an indicator and a stud on wherever I need them. Work on my lathe, any of the mills whatever. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Jun 15, 11:36*am, Karl Townsend
wrote: I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- *(that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. I like that idea. Is there any reason one could not install a big taper pin, with a ring on the outer end so you could pull it if you really needed to swivel the head? Then return it to tram by aligning the pin and tapping it snug. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:36:27 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok Shrug Gunner You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work of getting within .001 over 4 inches. I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. Karl Last time I trammed the head of my Gorton Master mill..was after I ah...er..crashed a 6" cutter head I was using to plane flat a good sized chunk of steel about 3" thick by 29" long. I had an Ooops! Took me about 20 minutes to tram it. But...my head only swivels side to side, not in and out like a BP . Gunner -- Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:43:44 -0700 (PDT), Rex
wrote: On Jun 15, 11:36*am, Karl Townsend wrote: I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- *(that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. I like that idea. Is there any reason one could not install a big taper pin, with a ring on the outer end so you could pull it if you really needed to swivel the head? Then return it to tram by aligning the pin and tapping it snug. The taper pin is drill and tapped so a bolt could be used to jack screw it out if needed. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
"Rex" wrote in message ... I like that idea. Is there any reason one could not install a big taper pin, with a ring on the outer end so you could pull it if you really needed to swivel the head? Then return it to tram by aligning the pin and tapping it snug. Use pins that come with a hole tapped in them. -- |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
: Took me about 20 minutes to tram it. But...my head only swivels side to side, not in and out like a BP . His doesn't do either -- it's a rigid ram machine. The only tramming available is to loosen the head mount bolts, and wiggle it. No "rotation" available. LLoyd |
Trammed the mil yesterday
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Trammed the mil yesterday
On 6/15/2011 9:58 AM, Pete C. wrote:
"T.Alan Kraus" wrote: On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote: Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. Have you actually used one? No, I was going on theory, and I realize I wasn't thinking. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:01:45 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote: I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. Nope. While its nice if they are the same its not necessary for them to be. You can make a home made one all wonky and have it work perfectly. Just set your manual zero indicator mark the same for both indicators at the same spot on the table. They can be within the range of the indicator off from each other and still work perfectly that way. It took me a while to get a reflexive feel for relative vs absolute measurement, but once I did life became a lot easier. I have a piece of square aluminum bar stock with threaded holes all over it I use for all kinds of things now. I just bolt an indicator and a stud on wherever I need them. Work on my lathe, any of the mills whatever. How do you use your home mader? Do you set them to zero, then turn the device 180º and move the head until it's half of the difference from the original reading? Rinse & repeat until it's zero? Are the SPI ones accurately enough made so that you don't have to turn the device 180º and try to read the back? |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-15, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches [ ... ] That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1" bit. Would you mind explaining that math? Not saying you are wrong, but it doesn't make sense to me. How can it be off true of .001 at 4 inches, and off true of .2 at 1 inch? He means 0.0002 ("tenths" is slang for ten-thosandths.) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-15, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"T.Alan Kraus" fired this volley in news:4df8d9c2$0 : I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. Nope. Just turn it 180 degrees to check any reading. This is a good point. Well, I did it with one indicator, just because I did not have this fancy one. I used top of the Kurt vise as a reference surface. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience? |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok I could not get it better than that. Spent 10 minutes on that final adjustment and nothing improved. i |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok Shrug Gunner You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work of getting within .001 over 4 inches. I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times" improvement over what I had when it was untrammed. i |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-15, Jon Elson wrote:
On 06/15/2011 07:53 AM, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i The scheme I used is to use a CNC program to mill a shallow circular groove in a piece of scrap about as large as the machine can reach. On your machine, it might be about a 10" diameter circle. I position the spindle back to the center of the groove. Then, I mount a dial indicator on an arm and sweep the groove. Because my ways are worn, I get a bit of a saddle-shape, ie. a hump in one axis and a valley across the other. I try to straddle all these variations when tramming. This aligns the spindle to the XY plane of motion, not just to the surface of the table. Tramming your head is probably harder than mine. Jon Jon, I wonder if a circle, milled on a moving table, represents a true reference surface, or not. I used the top of the Kurt vise as a reference surface. It was not "really hard", like changing a transmission on a car on a hot day, but after a while I hit a virtual wall and could not improve beyond 0.001" over 4 inches swing. i |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-15, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in : It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches Hardly done! G That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1" bit. That wouldn't give very pretty facing work. But that's just my opinion. This was the best that I could do. I will try to face some piece of material and see how it looks with the head trammed. I do have a question, though: Since yours is a fixed ram machine, how did you go about it? Did you follow the maintenance manuals, or come up with your own technique? That's a heavy head, and when you loosen the bolts, it wants to move all on its own. There is a eccentric cam on one of the four bolts. This is what I used. i |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:50:07 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Gunner Asch fired this volley in : Took me about 20 minutes to tram it. But...my head only swivels side to side, not in and out like a BP . His doesn't do either -- it's a rigid ram machine. The only tramming available is to loosen the head mount bolts, and wiggle it. No "rotation" available. LLoyd Damn..and he actually paid for that? My Abene...shrug...5 minutes Gunner -- Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:23:43 -0500, Ignoramus16551
wrote: On 2011-06-15, Jon Elson wrote: On 06/15/2011 07:53 AM, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i The scheme I used is to use a CNC program to mill a shallow circular groove in a piece of scrap about as large as the machine can reach. On your machine, it might be about a 10" diameter circle. I position the spindle back to the center of the groove. Then, I mount a dial indicator on an arm and sweep the groove. Because my ways are worn, I get a bit of a saddle-shape, ie. a hump in one axis and a valley across the other. I try to straddle all these variations when tramming. This aligns the spindle to the XY plane of motion, not just to the surface of the table. Tramming your head is probably harder than mine. Jon Jon, I wonder if a circle, milled on a moving table, represents a true reference surface, or not. I used the top of the Kurt vise as a reference surface. It was not "really hard", like changing a transmission on a car on a hot day, but after a while I hit a virtual wall and could not improve beyond 0.001" over 4 inches swing. i BTDT, frustrating is the word. A few suggestions if you go for perfect. Bolt a thick plate to the table. Use a large face mill to skin cut it down to a true surface. Note, if its off; use only the center of travel for your indicator. For that last bit of adjustment leave the bolts *almost* tight and use large levers to move the head an RHC. If you have the style head attachment I think you do, changing Y would be damn near impossible, X not too bad. My check was to skin cut that same plate again, keep going till the facemilll leaves a great surface Karl |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Ignoramus16551 fired this volley
in : This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience? It's just WAY faster. The better ones can, themselves, be "trued" prior to starting. Then you don't have to do the 180-swing thing until you're tweaking out the last half-a-tenth. LLoyd |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
: Damn..and he actually paid for that? It's a CNC, Gunny. Lacking a 4th or 5th axis, all it can do is 2.5D. It can hardly be called a manual machine, although his EMC work allows joysticking. Unless a CNC has head gimbaling under control, the ability to tilt the head isn't of much use. LLoyd |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Ignoramus16551 fired this volley in
: I will try to face some piece of material and see how it looks with the head trammed. Ig, I've got mine pretty close, but I have ONE 1" carbide endmill that someone crashed into a workpiece once while it was not running (cause it's not busted). However, they must've bent the shank ever so slightly, because it basically cuts on one tooth, all the way around. I faced some work and took it to a friend who has a surface roughness tester. He says it's off less than 1.5 microns, but it still _looks_ like an old fashioned "engine finish"; "jeweled", as it were. Me... I doubt the 1.5 microns, because I don't think the old spindle bearings run THAT true! G LLoyd LLoyd |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:20:06 -0500, Ignoramus16551
wrote: On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok Shrug Gunner You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work of getting within .001 over 4 inches. I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times" improvement over what I had when it was untrammed. Are you sweeping a tiltable head to zero, Ig? When I hear the term "Tramming", I think zeroing the table to the head. (Just clarifying my newbieness, too. What's the terminology, guys? It wasn't covered in Briney's _The Home Machinist's Handbook_) -- Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony. -- Mahatma Gandhi |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Ignoramus16551 wrote: On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote: Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience? Since you aren't swinging an indicator around, you aren't introducing potential error in the indicator mount / joints during movement. Since you aren't swinging an indicator around you're staying at the same contact points on the table or vise so you aren't picking up variations in that surface either. Since you see both indicators at the same time you don't have to remember readings between swinging an indicator between sides so adjustment is vastly faster. Also, for manual mills, you can set the head at angles quickly and accurately using a sine bar and zeroing off of that. I think it's worth the money for the time and fuss it saves you. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Larry Jaques wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:20:06 -0500, Ignoramus16551 wrote: On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok Shrug Gunner You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work of getting within .001 over 4 inches. I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times" improvement over what I had when it was untrammed. Are you sweeping a tiltable head to zero, Ig? When I hear the term "Tramming", I think zeroing the table to the head. (Just clarifying my newbieness, too. What's the terminology, guys? It wasn't covered in Briney's _The Home Machinist's Handbook_) It's not a tiltable head as in a normal use axis like a regular Bridgeport. It's a CNC with a fixed head, but that still needs to be fine tuned to ensure its square to the table and as Iggy noted, it has some eccentric cams in the head mount to allow that small amount of adjustment. |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-16, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in : Damn..and he actually paid for that? It's a CNC, Gunny. Lacking a 4th or 5th axis, all it can do is 2.5D. It can hardly be called a manual machine, although his EMC work allows joysticking. It has a 4th axis, actually. Unless a CNC has head gimbaling under control, the ability to tilt the head isn't of much use. Yep. The head is bolted tight and does not move. i |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-16, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:20:06 -0500, Ignoramus16551 wrote: On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i Only .001? Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out. Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok Shrug Gunner You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work of getting within .001 over 4 inches. I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term) and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there. I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times" improvement over what I had when it was untrammed. Are you sweeping a tiltable head to zero, Ig? When I hear the term "Tramming", I think zeroing the table to the head. The head is not tiltable like on a manual Bridgeport, but there is a little cam that lets me "tilt" it by 0.5 degree or some such, just to do tramming. i (Just clarifying my newbieness, too. What's the terminology, guys? It wasn't covered in Briney's _The Home Machinist's Handbook_) |
Trammed the mil yesterday
On 2011-06-16, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus16551 wrote: On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote: Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience? Since you aren't swinging an indicator around, you aren't introducing potential error in the indicator mount / joints during movement. Since you aren't swinging an indicator around you're staying at the same contact points on the table or vise so you aren't picking up variations in that surface either. Since you see both indicators at the same time you don't have to remember readings between swinging an indicator between sides so adjustment is vastly faster. Also, for manual mills, you can set the head at angles quickly and accurately using a sine bar and zeroing off of that. I think it's worth the money for the time and fuss it saves you. Pete, what do you think about using the top of a Kurt vise as a reference surface? Keep in mind that my mill table is covered by an aluminum plate. Also, I am thinking, that this is a better spindle squa http://www.gridlineexpress.com/servl...-0.0005/Detail Your opinion? i |
Trammed the mil yesterday
GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
... On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:01:45 -0700, "Bob La Londe" wrote: I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading. Nope. While its nice if they are the same its not necessary for them to be. You can make a home made one all wonky and have it work perfectly. Just set your manual zero indicator mark the same for both indicators at the same spot on the table. They can be within the range of the indicator off from each other and still work perfectly that way. It took me a while to get a reflexive feel for relative vs absolute measurement, but once I did life became a lot easier. I have a piece of square aluminum bar stock with threaded holes all over it I use for all kinds of things now. I just bolt an indicator and a stud on wherever I need them. Work on my lathe, any of the mills whatever. How do you use your home mader? Do you set them to zero, then turn the device 180º and move the head until it's half of the difference from the original reading? Rinse & repeat until it's zero? Set one to zero. Turn 180 set the other to zero. Turn back and adjust. I crane my neck once. The way Jon does it is better, but I have not the patience for that, and it would require craning my neck every which way to read it. I used to do it with one indicator on a bar and I did crane my neck around to do it. With two its faster. My machines are not very rigid, and my high speed spindles are just in aluminum clamp mounts so its all a compromise anyway. What's an SPI? |
Trammed the mil yesterday
Ignoramus30422 wrote: On 2011-06-16, Pete C. wrote: Ignoramus16551 wrote: On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote: Ignoramus10056 wrote: It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that the indicator makes when attached to spindle). i I'm rather a fan of this: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532 This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience? Since you aren't swinging an indicator around, you aren't introducing potential error in the indicator mount / joints during movement. Since you aren't swinging an indicator around you're staying at the same contact points on the table or vise so you aren't picking up variations in that surface either. Since you see both indicators at the same time you don't have to remember readings between swinging an indicator between sides so adjustment is vastly faster. Also, for manual mills, you can set the head at angles quickly and accurately using a sine bar and zeroing off of that. I think it's worth the money for the time and fuss it saves you. Pete, what do you think about using the top of a Kurt vise as a reference surface? I think that could introduce errors if the vice is not solidly locked closed/down. The vise way surfaces with the vice open are probably better since those are the surfaces your part or parallels supporting your part reference off of generally. Keep in mind that my mill table is covered by an aluminum plate. Also, I am thinking, that this is a better spindle squa http://www.gridlineexpress.com/servl...-0.0005/Detail The spindle square is available in two versions, take a look at http://spindlesquare.com I'm not sure the version with the 0.0005 indicators is really necessary for normal use, since you get to watch both indicators at the same time you can visually get the readings matched to less than the dial graduations anyway. |
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