Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Trammed the mil yesterday

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i
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Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in
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It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches


Hardly done! G

That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1"
bit. That wouldn't give very pretty facing work.

But that's just my opinion.

I do have a question, though: Since yours is a fixed ram machine, how
did you go about it? Did you follow the maintenance manuals, or come up
with your own technique? That's a heavy head, and when you loosen the
bolts, it wants to move all on its own.

LLoyd
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Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


Shrug

Gunner

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Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
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Default Trammed the mil yesterday

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in
:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches


Hardly done! G

That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1"
bit.


Would you mind explaining that math? Not saying you are wrong, but it
doesn't make sense to me. How can it be off true of .001 at 4 inches, and
off true of .2 at 1 inch?





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Bob La Londe wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in
:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches


Hardly done! G

That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1"
bit.


Would you mind explaining that math? Not saying you are wrong, but it
doesn't make sense to me. How can it be off true of .001 at 4 inches, and
off true of .2 at 1 inch?



"tenths" refers to "ten thousandths" in a machining context.
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On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532


I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and
that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.
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"T.Alan Kraus" fired this volley in news:4df8d9c2$0
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I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and
that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.


Nope. Just turn it 180 degrees to check any reading.

LLoyd
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


Shrug

Gunner


You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work
of getting within .001 over 4 inches.

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.

Karl


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"T.Alan Kraus" wrote:

On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532


I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and
that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.


Have you actually used one?


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On 06/15/2011 07:53 AM, Ignoramus10056 wrote:
It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

The scheme I used is to use a CNC program to mill a shallow circular
groove in a piece of scrap about as large as the machine can reach.
On your machine, it might be about a 10" diameter circle. I position
the spindle back to the center of the groove. Then, I mount
a dial indicator on an arm and sweep the groove. Because my ways are
worn, I get a bit of a saddle-shape, ie. a hump in one axis and a valley
across the other. I try to straddle all these variations when tramming.
This aligns the spindle to the XY plane of motion, not just to the
surface of the table.

Tramming your head is probably harder than mine.

Jon
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"T.Alan Kraus" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532


I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that
introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.


Nope. While its nice if they are the same its not necessary for them to be.
You can make a home made one all wonky and have it work perfectly. Just set
your manual zero indicator mark the same for both indicators at the same
spot on the table. They can be within the range of the indicator off from
each other and still work perfectly that way. It took me a while to get a
reflexive feel for relative vs absolute measurement, but once I did life
became a lot easier.

I have a piece of square aluminum bar stock with threaded holes all over it
I use for all kinds of things now. I just bolt an indicator and a stud on
wherever I need them. Work on my lathe, any of the mills whatever.

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Default Trammed the mil yesterday

On Jun 15, 11:36*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- *(that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.


I like that idea. Is there any reason one could not install a big
taper pin, with a ring on the outer end so you could pull it if you
really needed to swivel the head? Then return it to tram by aligning
the pin and tapping it snug.

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On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 11:36:27 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


Shrug

Gunner


You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work
of getting within .001 over 4 inches.

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.

Karl


Last time I trammed the head of my Gorton Master mill..was after I
ah...er..crashed a 6" cutter head I was using to plane flat a good sized
chunk of steel about 3" thick by 29" long. I had an Ooops!

Took me about 20 minutes to tram it. But...my head only swivels side to
side, not in and out like a BP .

Gunner

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Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:43:44 -0700 (PDT), Rex
wrote:

On Jun 15, 11:36*am, Karl Townsend
wrote:

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- *(that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.


I like that idea. Is there any reason one could not install a big
taper pin, with a ring on the outer end so you could pull it if you
really needed to swivel the head? Then return it to tram by aligning
the pin and tapping it snug.


The taper pin is drill and tapped so a bolt could be used to jack
screw it out if needed.


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"Rex" wrote in message
...


I like that idea. Is there any reason one could not install a big
taper pin, with a ring on the outer end so you could pull it if you
really needed to swivel the head? Then return it to tram by aligning
the pin and tapping it snug.


Use pins that come with a hole tapped in them.

--


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Gunner Asch fired this volley in
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Took me about 20 minutes to tram it. But...my head only swivels side to
side, not in and out like a BP .


His doesn't do either -- it's a rigid ram machine. The only tramming
available is to loosen the head mount bolts, and wiggle it. No "rotation"
available.

LLoyd
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On 6/15/2011 9:58 AM, Pete C. wrote:

"T.Alan Kraus" wrote:

On 6/15/2011 7:57 AM, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532


I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and
that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.


Have you actually used one?


No, I was going on theory, and I realize I wasn't thinking.
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:01:45 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and that
introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.


Nope. While its nice if they are the same its not necessary for them to be.
You can make a home made one all wonky and have it work perfectly. Just set
your manual zero indicator mark the same for both indicators at the same
spot on the table. They can be within the range of the indicator off from
each other and still work perfectly that way. It took me a while to get a
reflexive feel for relative vs absolute measurement, but once I did life
became a lot easier.

I have a piece of square aluminum bar stock with threaded holes all over it
I use for all kinds of things now. I just bolt an indicator and a stud on
wherever I need them. Work on my lathe, any of the mills whatever.


How do you use your home mader? Do you set them to zero, then turn
the device 180 and move the head until it's half of the difference
from the original reading? Rinse & repeat until it's zero?

Are the SPI ones accurately enough made so that you don't have to turn
the device 180 and try to read the back?



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On 2011-06-15, Bob La Londe wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...


Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in


It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches


[ ... ]

That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1"
bit.


Would you mind explaining that math? Not saying you are wrong, but it
doesn't make sense to me. How can it be off true of .001 at 4 inches, and
off true of .2 at 1 inch?


He means 0.0002 ("tenths" is slang for ten-thosandths.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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On 2011-06-15, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"T.Alan Kraus" fired this volley in news:4df8d9c2$0
:

I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and
that introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.


Nope. Just turn it 180 degrees to check any reading.


This is a good point. Well, I did it with one indicator, just because
I did not have this fancy one. I used top of the Kurt vise as a
reference surface.

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On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532


This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it
tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience?
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On 2011-06-15, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


I could not get it better than that. Spent 10 minutes on that final
adjustment and nothing improved.

i
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On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


Shrug

Gunner


You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work
of getting within .001 over 4 inches.

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.


I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times"
improvement over what I had when it was untrammed.

i


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On 2011-06-15, Jon Elson wrote:
On 06/15/2011 07:53 AM, Ignoramus10056 wrote:
It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

The scheme I used is to use a CNC program to mill a shallow circular
groove in a piece of scrap about as large as the machine can reach.
On your machine, it might be about a 10" diameter circle. I position
the spindle back to the center of the groove. Then, I mount
a dial indicator on an arm and sweep the groove. Because my ways are
worn, I get a bit of a saddle-shape, ie. a hump in one axis and a valley
across the other. I try to straddle all these variations when tramming.
This aligns the spindle to the XY plane of motion, not just to the
surface of the table.

Tramming your head is probably harder than mine.

Jon


Jon, I wonder if a circle, milled on a moving table, represents a true
reference surface, or not. I used the top of the Kurt vise as a
reference surface.

It was not "really hard", like changing a transmission on a car on a
hot day, but after a while I hit a virtual wall and could not improve
beyond 0.001" over 4 inches swing.

i
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On 2011-06-15, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus10056 fired this volley in
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It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches


Hardly done! G

That means it's off more than two tenths just over the diameter of a 1"
bit. That wouldn't give very pretty facing work.

But that's just my opinion.


This was the best that I could do.

I will try to face some piece of material and see how it looks with
the head trammed.

I do have a question, though: Since yours is a fixed ram machine,
how did you go about it? Did you follow the maintenance manuals, or
come up with your own technique? That's a heavy head, and when you
loosen the bolts, it wants to move all on its own.


There is a eccentric cam on one of the four bolts. This is what I
used.

i
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On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:50:07 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Took me about 20 minutes to tram it. But...my head only swivels side to
side, not in and out like a BP .


His doesn't do either -- it's a rigid ram machine. The only tramming
available is to loosen the head mount bolts, and wiggle it. No "rotation"
available.

LLoyd


Damn..and he actually paid for that?

My Abene...shrug...5 minutes

Gunner

--
Maxim 12: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:23:43 -0500, Ignoramus16551
wrote:

On 2011-06-15, Jon Elson wrote:
On 06/15/2011 07:53 AM, Ignoramus10056 wrote:
It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

The scheme I used is to use a CNC program to mill a shallow circular
groove in a piece of scrap about as large as the machine can reach.
On your machine, it might be about a 10" diameter circle. I position
the spindle back to the center of the groove. Then, I mount
a dial indicator on an arm and sweep the groove. Because my ways are
worn, I get a bit of a saddle-shape, ie. a hump in one axis and a valley
across the other. I try to straddle all these variations when tramming.
This aligns the spindle to the XY plane of motion, not just to the
surface of the table.

Tramming your head is probably harder than mine.

Jon


Jon, I wonder if a circle, milled on a moving table, represents a true
reference surface, or not. I used the top of the Kurt vise as a
reference surface.

It was not "really hard", like changing a transmission on a car on a
hot day, but after a while I hit a virtual wall and could not improve
beyond 0.001" over 4 inches swing.

i


BTDT, frustrating is the word.

A few suggestions if you go for perfect.

Bolt a thick plate to the table. Use a large face mill to skin cut it
down to a true surface. Note, if its off; use only the center of
travel for your indicator.

For that last bit of adjustment leave the bolts *almost* tight and use
large levers to move the head an RHC. If you have the style head
attachment I think you do, changing Y would be damn near impossible, X
not too bad.

My check was to skin cut that same plate again, keep going till the
facemilll leaves a great surface

Karl

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Ignoramus16551 fired this volley
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This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it
tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more
convenience?


It's just WAY faster. The better ones can, themselves, be "trued" prior to
starting. Then you don't have to do the 180-swing thing until you're
tweaking out the last half-a-tenth.

LLoyd


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Gunner Asch fired this volley in
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Damn..and he actually paid for that?


It's a CNC, Gunny. Lacking a 4th or 5th axis, all it can do is 2.5D. It
can hardly be called a manual machine, although his EMC work allows
joysticking.

Unless a CNC has head gimbaling under control, the ability to tilt the head
isn't of much use.

LLoyd
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Ignoramus16551 fired this volley in
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I will try to face some piece of material and see how it looks with
the head trammed.


Ig, I've got mine pretty close, but I have ONE 1" carbide endmill that
someone crashed into a workpiece once while it was not running (cause
it's not busted). However, they must've bent the shank ever so slightly,
because it basically cuts on one tooth, all the way around.

I faced some work and took it to a friend who has a surface roughness
tester. He says it's off less than 1.5 microns, but it still _looks_
like an old fashioned "engine finish"; "jeweled", as it were.

Me... I doubt the 1.5 microns, because I don't think the old spindle
bearings run THAT true! G

LLoyd


LLoyd
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:20:06 -0500, Ignoramus16551
wrote:

On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


Shrug

Gunner


You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work
of getting within .001 over 4 inches.

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.


I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times"
improvement over what I had when it was untrammed.


Are you sweeping a tiltable head to zero, Ig? When I hear the term
"Tramming", I think zeroing the table to the head.

(Just clarifying my newbieness, too. What's the terminology, guys? It
wasn't covered in Briney's _The Home Machinist's Handbook_)

--
Happiness is when what you think, what
you say, and what you do are in harmony.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
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Default Trammed the mil yesterday


Ignoramus16551 wrote:

On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i


I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532


This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it
tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience?


Since you aren't swinging an indicator around, you aren't introducing
potential error in the indicator mount / joints during movement. Since
you aren't swinging an indicator around you're staying at the same
contact points on the table or vise so you aren't picking up variations
in that surface either. Since you see both indicators at the same time
you don't have to remember readings between swinging an indicator
between sides so adjustment is vastly faster. Also, for manual mills,
you can set the head at angles quickly and accurately using a sine bar
and zeroing off of that. I think it's worth the money for the time and
fuss it saves you.
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Default Trammed the mil yesterday


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:20:06 -0500, Ignoramus16551
wrote:

On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


Shrug

Gunner

You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work
of getting within .001 over 4 inches.

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.


I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times"
improvement over what I had when it was untrammed.


Are you sweeping a tiltable head to zero, Ig? When I hear the term
"Tramming", I think zeroing the table to the head.

(Just clarifying my newbieness, too. What's the terminology, guys? It
wasn't covered in Briney's _The Home Machinist's Handbook_)


It's not a tiltable head as in a normal use axis like a regular
Bridgeport. It's a CNC with a fixed head, but that still needs to be
fine tuned to ensure its square to the table and as Iggy noted, it has
some eccentric cams in the head mount to allow that small amount of
adjustment.


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Default Trammed the mil yesterday

On 2011-06-16, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Damn..and he actually paid for that?


It's a CNC, Gunny. Lacking a 4th or 5th axis, all it can do is 2.5D. It
can hardly be called a manual machine, although his EMC work allows
joysticking.


It has a 4th axis, actually.

Unless a CNC has head gimbaling under control, the ability to tilt the head
isn't of much use.


Yep. The head is bolted tight and does not move.

i
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Default Trammed the mil yesterday

On 2011-06-16, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:20:06 -0500, Ignoramus16551
wrote:

On 2011-06-15, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:02:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:53:57 -0500, Ignoramus10056
wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

Only .001?

Why did you bother? Thats pretty far out.

Mine is trammed at .0003 at 8" and its Almost ok


Shrug

Gunner

You should let Iggy know getting it this close is ten times the work
of getting within .001 over 4 inches.

I fiddled with my Large Super Max till it was --O--O-- (that's an
arrow through two balls, or "dead nuts", an official engineering term)
and then drilled and installed a taper pin to keep it there.


I will try using the mill, trammed as it is. This is a "many times"
improvement over what I had when it was untrammed.


Are you sweeping a tiltable head to zero, Ig? When I hear the term
"Tramming", I think zeroing the table to the head.


The head is not tiltable like on a manual Bridgeport, but there is a
little cam that lets me "tilt" it by 0.5 degree or some such, just to
do tramming.

i

(Just clarifying my newbieness, too. What's the terminology, guys? It
wasn't covered in Briney's _The Home Machinist's Handbook_)

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Default Trammed the mil yesterday

On 2011-06-16, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus16551 wrote:

On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532


This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it
tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience?


Since you aren't swinging an indicator around, you aren't introducing
potential error in the indicator mount / joints during movement. Since
you aren't swinging an indicator around you're staying at the same
contact points on the table or vise so you aren't picking up variations
in that surface either. Since you see both indicators at the same time
you don't have to remember readings between swinging an indicator
between sides so adjustment is vastly faster. Also, for manual mills,
you can set the head at angles quickly and accurately using a sine bar
and zeroing off of that. I think it's worth the money for the time and
fuss it saves you.


Pete, what do you think about using the top of a Kurt vise as a
reference surface?

Keep in mind that my mill table is covered by an aluminum plate.

Also, I am thinking, that this is a better spindle squa

http://www.gridlineexpress.com/servl...-0.0005/Detail

Your opinion?

i
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Default Trammed the mil yesterday

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:01:45 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


I don't like that, because it relies on two separate indicators, and
that
introduces uncertainty as to their mutual adjustment an reading.


Nope. While its nice if they are the same its not necessary for them to
be.
You can make a home made one all wonky and have it work perfectly. Just
set
your manual zero indicator mark the same for both indicators at the same
spot on the table. They can be within the range of the indicator off from
each other and still work perfectly that way. It took me a while to get a
reflexive feel for relative vs absolute measurement, but once I did life
became a lot easier.

I have a piece of square aluminum bar stock with threaded holes all over
it
I use for all kinds of things now. I just bolt an indicator and a stud on
wherever I need them. Work on my lathe, any of the mills whatever.


How do you use your home mader? Do you set them to zero, then turn
the device 180 and move the head until it's half of the difference
from the original reading? Rinse & repeat until it's zero?


Set one to zero. Turn 180 set the other to zero. Turn back and adjust. I
crane my neck once. The way Jon does it is better, but I have not the
patience for that, and it would require craning my neck every which way to
read it.

I used to do it with one indicator on a bar and I did crane my neck around
to do it. With two its faster. My machines are not very rigid, and my high
speed spindles are just in aluminum clamp mounts so its all a compromise
anyway.

What's an SPI?



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Default Trammed the mil yesterday


Ignoramus30422 wrote:

On 2011-06-16, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus16551 wrote:

On 2011-06-15, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus10056 wrote:

It took about an hour, but I am finally done, trammed it with a dial
indicator. 0.001" over about 4 inches. (diameter of the circle that
the indicator makes when attached to spindle).

i

I'm rather a fan of this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19506532

This looks very nice. I am very tempted. But I wonder, what does it
tell me that I cannot learn with only one dial indicator? Just more convenience?


Since you aren't swinging an indicator around, you aren't introducing
potential error in the indicator mount / joints during movement. Since
you aren't swinging an indicator around you're staying at the same
contact points on the table or vise so you aren't picking up variations
in that surface either. Since you see both indicators at the same time
you don't have to remember readings between swinging an indicator
between sides so adjustment is vastly faster. Also, for manual mills,
you can set the head at angles quickly and accurately using a sine bar
and zeroing off of that. I think it's worth the money for the time and
fuss it saves you.


Pete, what do you think about using the top of a Kurt vise as a
reference surface?


I think that could introduce errors if the vice is not solidly locked
closed/down. The vise way surfaces with the vice open are probably
better since those are the surfaces your part or parallels supporting
your part reference off of generally.


Keep in mind that my mill table is covered by an aluminum plate.

Also, I am thinking, that this is a better spindle squa

http://www.gridlineexpress.com/servl...-0.0005/Detail


The spindle square is available in two versions, take a look at
http://spindlesquare.com

I'm not sure the version with the 0.0005 indicators is really necessary
for normal use, since you get to watch both indicators at the same time
you can visually get the readings matched to less than the dial
graduations anyway.
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