Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the last
6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some idiot
had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail) connection
in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I was flat out at
work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an electrician to chase it
down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin the
entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and then
someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the wiring
may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it isn't
going short distances in walls.

I have a cheapo Greenlee circuit tracer, but it's designed to plug into a
live outlet for mapping out breakers. I know they sell ones that put a
strong enough signal on the wires that you can track them in walls,
presumably battery powered for dead circuits. One catch is that the
basement ceiling is expanded metal lath. I don't expect to trace things
there, although a really good on might work up through the wood floors.

The electrician who fixed the first break had some kind of tracer, but
didn't have much luck with it. Apparently even a small load (a night
light in an outlet we didn't know was on the circuit) was enough to kill
the signal. I'd prefer something that was a bit more reliable.

Any recommendations? Something I can pick up at Lowes or Home Despot
would be good.

Thanks!

Doug White

On Sun, 29 May 2011 12:53:47 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the last
6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some idiot
had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail) connection
in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I was flat out at
work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an electrician to chase it
down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin the
entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and then
someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the wiring
may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it isn't
going short distances in walls.

I have a cheapo Greenlee circuit tracer, but it's designed to plug into a
live outlet for mapping out breakers. I know they sell ones that put a
strong enough signal on the wires that you can track them in walls,
presumably battery powered for dead circuits. One catch is that the
basement ceiling is expanded metal lath. I don't expect to trace things
there, although a really good on might work up through the wood floors.

The electrician who fixed the first break had some kind of tracer, but
didn't have much luck with it. Apparently even a small load (a night
light in an outlet we didn't know was on the circuit) was enough to kill
the signal. I'd prefer something that was a bit more reliable.

Any recommendations? Something I can pick up at Lowes or Home Despot
would be good.

The first thing to come to mind is a beeping circuit tracer. I bought
a Greenlee GT-16 Adjustable Non-Contact Voltage Detector from an
Amazon vendor. You hold it next to the wiring and it beeps until you
find the break. This won't work inside walls. If you get one, make
sure it's adjustable. Non-adjustable beepers aren't reliable, being
either too sensitive or not sensitive enough. This is a power detector
type, so you'll find the break quickly -if- you have access to the
wiring.

If you know exactly what the circuit is for and what outlets/lamps it
serves, it might be quicker and cheaper to just run an entire new run
than to troubleshoot it. Romex is a lot cheaper than an electrician's
time, even at copper's current expanded price.

One last thought: Have you gone throughout the house and replaced
every single instance of backstabbing with real outlets and switches
with real screw terminals? If not, do so now. It may solve the problem
for you. Some circuits are run in series, so a badly stabbed switch
up the line may be the problem, not the copper wiring.

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

Doug White wrote:
Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the last
6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some idiot
had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail) connection
in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I was flat out at
work& had to pay several hundred bucks to get an electrician to chase it
down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin the
entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and then
someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the wiring
may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it isn't
going short distances in walls.

I have a cheapo Greenlee circuit tracer, but it's designed to plug into a
live outlet for mapping out breakers. I know they sell ones that put a
strong enough signal on the wires that you can track them in walls,
presumably battery powered for dead circuits. One catch is that the
basement ceiling is expanded metal lath. I don't expect to trace things
there, although a really good on might work up through the wood floors.

The electrician who fixed the first break had some kind of tracer, but
didn't have much luck with it. Apparently even a small load (a night
light in an outlet we didn't know was on the circuit) was enough to kill
the signal. I'd prefer something that was a bit more reliable.

Any recommendations? Something I can pick up at Lowes or Home Despot
would be good.

Thanks!

Doug White

You have to think like a lazy electrician. Go to the last good outlet
on the string and look for another one close to that one. I assume you
have mapped out the dead and live outlets on the circuit. I would open
up the last good outlet and check the connections, then go to the dead
ones and pull them one by one and check them. Maybe just thumping the
wall next to the outlet might bring it back to life. I would try that
first and maybe you will get lucky and find the loose wire.

John

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 May 2011 12:53:47 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the
last 6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some
idiot had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail)
connection in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I
was flat out at work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an
electrician to chase it down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin
the entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and
then someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the
wiring may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it
isn't going short distances in walls.

I have a cheapo Greenlee circuit tracer, but it's designed to plug
into a live outlet for mapping out breakers. I know they sell ones
that put a strong enough signal on the wires that you can track them
in walls, presumably battery powered for dead circuits. One catch is
that the basement ceiling is expanded metal lath. I don't expect to
trace things there, although a really good on might work up through
the wood floors.

The electrician who fixed the first break had some kind of tracer, but
didn't have much luck with it. Apparently even a small load (a night
light in an outlet we didn't know was on the circuit) was enough to
kill the signal. I'd prefer something that was a bit more reliable.

Any recommendations? Something I can pick up at Lowes or Home Despot
would be good.

The first thing to come to mind is a beeping circuit tracer. I bought
a Greenlee GT-16 Adjustable Non-Contact Voltage Detector from an
Amazon vendor. You hold it next to the wiring and it beeps until you
find the break. This won't work inside walls. If you get one, make
sure it's adjustable. Non-adjustable beepers aren't reliable, being
either too sensitive or not sensitive enough. This is a power detector
type, so you'll find the break quickly -if- you have access to the
wiring.

If you know exactly what the circuit is for and what outlets/lamps it
serves, it might be quicker and cheaper to just run an entire new run
than to troubleshoot it. Romex is a lot cheaper than an electrician's
time, even at copper's current expanded price.

One last thought: Have you gone throughout the house and replaced
every single instance of backstabbing with real outlets and switches
with real screw terminals? If not, do so now. It may solve the problem
for you. Some circuits are run in series, so a badly stabbed switch
up the line may be the problem, not the copper wiring.

My guess is that's what has happened. I doubt a wire has just "let go"
someplace in a wall. I can replace outlets that are on either side of
the break, and hope I get lucky. The catch is that I don't know for sure
where every item is on that circuit. The middle of the problem is my
daughter's room, which has a ton of stuff packed aginst every wall. All
the outlets are barricaded behind furniture & tall bookcases. She swears
there are only two in the room, but I'm unconvinced. Only one is on the
circuit in question, and I already replaced the other one. If I could
trace the wires in the walls, I'd have a better chance of making sure of
finding both every connection, AND the order of things. I've got a
couple things that still have power, and a bunch of stuff that doesn't.
Tracing the wiring would help identify where the broken "bridge" is
between the circuits. For now, I have two outlets that I'm hoping are
involved, one live & one dead. I'll open those up & pray there isn't any
intervening circuitry, or that the "bridge" is routed some other place.

I've taken a brief look on-line. Tracers seem to come in two flavors:
cheap ( $150) and ineffective, and very expensive ( $300) and unclear
how effective. The serious pro models seem to run $800 & up. I could
have paid for a moderately good one for what the first adventure cost me,
but for now I will try it the old fashioned way.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 May 2011 12:53:47 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the
last 6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some
idiot had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail)
connection in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I
was flat out at work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an
electrician to chase it down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin
the entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and
then someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the
wiring may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it
isn't going short distances in walls.

I have a cheapo Greenlee circuit tracer, but it's designed to plug
into a live outlet for mapping out breakers. I know they sell ones
that put a strong enough signal on the wires that you can track them
in walls, presumably battery powered for dead circuits. One catch is
that the basement ceiling is expanded metal lath. I don't expect to
trace things there, although a really good on might work up through
the wood floors.

The electrician who fixed the first break had some kind of tracer, but
didn't have much luck with it. Apparently even a small load (a night
light in an outlet we didn't know was on the circuit) was enough to
kill the signal. I'd prefer something that was a bit more reliable.

Any recommendations? Something I can pick up at Lowes or Home Despot
would be good.

The first thing to come to mind is a beeping circuit tracer. I bought
a Greenlee GT-16 Adjustable Non-Contact Voltage Detector from an
Amazon vendor. You hold it next to the wiring and it beeps until you
find the break. This won't work inside walls. If you get one, make
sure it's adjustable. Non-adjustable beepers aren't reliable, being
either too sensitive or not sensitive enough. This is a power detector
type, so you'll find the break quickly -if- you have access to the
wiring.

If you know exactly what the circuit is for and what outlets/lamps it
serves, it might be quicker and cheaper to just run an entire new run
than to troubleshoot it. Romex is a lot cheaper than an electrician's
time, even at copper's current expanded price.

One last thought: Have you gone throughout the house and replaced
every single instance of backstabbing with real outlets and switches
with real screw terminals? If not, do so now. It may solve the problem
for you. Some circuits are run in series, so a badly stabbed switch
up the line may be the problem, not the copper wiring.

My guess is that's what has happened. I doubt a wire has just "let go"
someplace in a wall. I can replace outlets that are on either side of
the break, and hope I get lucky. The catch is that I don't know for sure
where every item is on that circuit. The middle of the problem is my
daughter's room, which has a ton of stuff packed aginst every wall. All
the outlets are barricaded behind furniture & tall bookcases. She swears
there are only two in the room, but I'm unconvinced. Only one is on the
circuit in question, and I already replaced the other one. If I could
trace the wires in the walls, I'd have a better chance of making sure of
finding both every connection, AND the order of things. I've got a
couple things that still have power, and a bunch of stuff that doesn't.
Tracing the wiring would help identify where the broken "bridge" is
between the circuits. For now, I have two outlets that I'm hoping are
involved, one live & one dead. I'll open those up & pray there isn't any
intervening circuitry, or that the "bridge" is routed some other place.

I've taken a brief look on-line. Tracers seem to come in two flavors:
cheap ( $150) and ineffective, and very expensive ( $300) and unclear
how effective. The serious pro models seem to run $800 & up. I could
have paid for a moderately good one for what the first adventure cost me,
but for now I will try it the old fashioned way.


Years ago I was at a friend's house when some outlets died. We
started tracing it out, and discovered that it ran from one bedroom to
an outside outlet, then back to the other bedroom. Of course it was
about 10 F outside while I replaced the bad backstab piece of crap.


--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

On May 29, 11:15*am, Doug White wrote:



One last thought: Have you gone throughout the house and replaced
every single instance of backstabbing with real outlets and switches
with real screw terminals? If not, do so now. It may solve the problem
for you. *Some circuits are run in series, so a badly stabbed switch
up the line may be the problem, not the copper wiring.


That is what I would do first. The cost is minimum and in my opinion
you will have made the house less likely to have a fire from a bad
connection. It may or may not solve the problem, but I think you
should do it first. With any luck it will solve the problem at no
expense for a circuit tracer.

Dan

Doug White wrote in
:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the
last 6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some
idiot had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail)
connection in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I
was flat out at work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an
electrician to chase it down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin
the entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and
then someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the
wiring may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it
isn't going short distances in walls.

First, thanks to everyone for their support & suggestions. I have
emerged victorious, and can get back to my weekend plans.

Fortunately, I do not have any aluminum wiring to deal with. I also
don't have a lot of backstabbed outlets to fail, but there may be one or
two left lying in wait. The original outlets weren't very robust. I
suspect that when they failed, the owners got a quick & dirty electrician
who installed replacements using the backstab connections. Some of the
original outlets have let go (literally; the plug can just fall out)
since we bought the place 8 years ago, and I've replaced them myself.

The key discovery was that several items in the basement were live, and
that extended past my daughter's bedroom. That meant the failure had to
be in one relatively small section of the house. The first outlet I
checked was the one that had triggered the problem when a vacuum cleaner
was plugged into it. It turned out to be A) relatively new, B) not
backstabbed, and C) at the end of it's run. This one had clearly been
replaced when the master bath was remodeled, because it actually had a
ground wire in the box. I should check that it is really grounded. Many
of the three prong outlets in the house aren't, and the original wiring
is all two wire, so the boxes aren't even grounded.

There was another 3-prong outlet about 4 feet away that appeared
identical. I assumed that it had probably been replaced during the
remodel as well, but a quick bit of screwdriver work revealed that it was
both ungrounded AND backstabbed! Sure enough, one of the hot wires was
loose & singed. The wiggling involved in opening it up had restored the
full circuit, so I had my culprit. It's been properly replaced with a
new 2-hole outlet using screws, and everything is back to normal.

The outlet in question was behind a chair, and hasn't been touched in
years. There was a bit of corrosion on the wires from moisture from the
bathroom, and I suspect the connection got weaker & weaker over time, and
the starting surge from the vacuum cleaner was enough to vaporize the few
copper atoms still holding on. It's right next to the bathroom door,
which is fairly heavy, and vibration from the door opening & closing
several times a day probably aggravated the situation.

As time permits, I'm going to go looking for any additional 3 wire
outlets that aren't actually grounded. That may be a clue that they were
replaced by the same nitwit, and I can deal with them before they fail.

Doug White

In article ,
Doug White wrote:

Doug White wrote in
:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the
last 6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some
idiot had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail)
connection in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I
was flat out at work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an
electrician to chase it down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin
the entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and
then someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the
wiring may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it
isn't going short distances in walls.

First, thanks to everyone for their support & suggestions. I have
emerged victorious, and can get back to my weekend plans.

Fortunately, I do not have any aluminum wiring to deal with. I also
don't have a lot of backstabbed outlets to fail, but there may be one or
two left lying in wait. The original outlets weren't very robust. I
suspect that when they failed, the owners got a quick & dirty electrician
who installed replacements using the backstab connections. Some of the
original outlets have let go (literally; the plug can just fall out)
since we bought the place 8 years ago, and I've replaced them myself.

The key discovery was that several items in the basement were live, and
that extended past my daughter's bedroom. That meant the failure had to
be in one relatively small section of the house. The first outlet I
checked was the one that had triggered the problem when a vacuum cleaner
was plugged into it. It turned out to be A) relatively new, B) not
backstabbed, and C) at the end of it's run. This one had clearly been
replaced when the master bath was remodeled, because it actually had a
ground wire in the box. I should check that it is really grounded. Many
of the three prong outlets in the house aren't, and the original wiring
is all two wire, so the boxes aren't even grounded.

There was another 3-prong outlet about 4 feet away that appeared
identical. I assumed that it had probably been replaced during the
remodel as well, but a quick bit of screwdriver work revealed that it was
both ungrounded AND backstabbed! Sure enough, one of the hot wires was
loose & singed. The wiggling involved in opening it up had restored the
full circuit, so I had my culprit. It's been properly replaced with a
new 2-hole outlet using screws, and everything is back to normal.

The outlet in question was behind a chair, and hasn't been touched in
years. There was a bit of corrosion on the wires from moisture from the
bathroom, and I suspect the connection got weaker & weaker over time, and
the starting surge from the vacuum cleaner was enough to vaporize the few
copper atoms still holding on. It's right next to the bathroom door,
which is fairly heavy, and vibration from the door opening & closing
several times a day probably aggravated the situation.

As time permits, I'm going to go looking for any additional 3 wire
outlets that aren't actually grounded. That may be a clue that they were
replaced by the same nitwit, and I can deal with them before they fail.

At least I have not had aluminum wire. But I have had all manner of
other problems in apartments and houses.

It turns out that the simplest approach is to turn the power off one
day, and open and correct each and every box, be it a switch, a light,
or an outlet. I usually replace all outlets at that time, and any
switch that doesn't feel right. Wiring devices are cheap, so there is
no reason to mess around. The only real cost is the time to do all
this. But one need do this just once per house or apartment.

Yes, apartment. A friend of mine almost lost everything she owned to a
bad wiring device. Fortunately, a retired fireman saw the smoke, and
called the fire department in time. I had the opportunity to do the
what=happened analysis before the renovation.

I usually find lots of "carpenter wiring" in that first sweep. Simply
tightening all connections is worthwhile. As is eliminating all
just-push-the-wire-in-the-hole connections.

Joe Gwinn

On Sun, 29 May 2011 15:15:38 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 May 2011 12:53:47 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the
last 6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some
idiot had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail)
connection in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I
was flat out at work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an
electrician to chase it down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin
the entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and
then someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the
wiring may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it
isn't going short distances in walls.

I have a cheapo Greenlee circuit tracer, but it's designed to plug
into a live outlet for mapping out breakers. I know they sell ones
that put a strong enough signal on the wires that you can track them
in walls, presumably battery powered for dead circuits. One catch is
that the basement ceiling is expanded metal lath. I don't expect to
trace things there, although a really good on might work up through
the wood floors.

The electrician who fixed the first break had some kind of tracer, but
didn't have much luck with it. Apparently even a small load (a night
light in an outlet we didn't know was on the circuit) was enough to
kill the signal. I'd prefer something that was a bit more reliable.

Any recommendations? Something I can pick up at Lowes or Home Despot
would be good.

The first thing to come to mind is a beeping circuit tracer. I bought
a Greenlee GT-16 Adjustable Non-Contact Voltage Detector from an
Amazon vendor. You hold it next to the wiring and it beeps until you
find the break. This won't work inside walls. If you get one, make
sure it's adjustable. Non-adjustable beepers aren't reliable, being
either too sensitive or not sensitive enough. This is a power detector
type, so you'll find the break quickly -if- you have access to the
wiring.

If you know exactly what the circuit is for and what outlets/lamps it
serves, it might be quicker and cheaper to just run an entire new run
than to troubleshoot it. Romex is a lot cheaper than an electrician's
time, even at copper's current expanded price.

One last thought: Have you gone throughout the house and replaced
every single instance of backstabbing with real outlets and switches
with real screw terminals? If not, do so now. It may solve the problem
for you. Some circuits are run in series, so a badly stabbed switch
up the line may be the problem, not the copper wiring.

My guess is that's what has happened. I doubt a wire has just "let go"
someplace in a wall. I can replace outlets that are on either side of
the break, and hope I get lucky. The catch is that I don't know for sure
where every item is on that circuit. The middle of the problem is my
daughter's room, which has a ton of stuff packed aginst every wall. All
the outlets are barricaded behind furniture & tall bookcases. She swears
there are only two in the room, but I'm unconvinced. Only one is on the
circuit in question, and I already replaced the other one. If I could
trace the wires in the walls, I'd have a better chance of making sure of
finding both every connection, AND the order of things. I've got a
couple things that still have power, and a bunch of stuff that doesn't.
Tracing the wiring would help identify where the broken "bridge" is
between the circuits. For now, I have two outlets that I'm hoping are
involved, one live & one dead. I'll open those up & pray there isn't any
intervening circuitry, or that the "bridge" is routed some other place.

I'd remove the circuit breaker, turn it back on to complete the
circuit, and test continuity through it and the wiring, verifying
where it was good and exactly where it stopped. YMMV.


I've taken a brief look on-line. Tracers seem to come in two flavors:
cheap ( $150) and ineffective, and very expensive ( $300) and unclear
how effective. The serious pro models seem to run $800 & up. I could
have paid for a moderately good one for what the first adventure cost me,
but for now I will try it the old fashioned way.

I first bought a signal injector (GE, $25) and found that it injected
to every outlet in the house. Hmm, too sensitive and no way to turn
it down. It's for sale, cheap.

Then I got the Greenlee, and it works as advertised. I haven't used it
for a break in a wire, but checking open wiring, it showed me that the
switch was good and the problem was in the fixture.

If I were you, I'd hunt down every single outlet in the house and get
those fire hazard stab connectors out of it immediately. I still can't
believe that they're up to code ANYWHERE. Shame on the NEC guys and
the NFPA guys for that one. I'd fire any electrician working for me
if he installed even -one- of those.

Isn't it "Daughter, move your crap NOW!" time, Doug? (or something
nicer, depending upon her willingness level)

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

Doug White wrote:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the last
6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some idiot
had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail) connection
in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I was flat out at
work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an electrician to chase it
down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin the
entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and then
someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the wiring
may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it isn't
going short distances in walls.

I have a cheapo Greenlee circuit tracer, but it's designed to plug into a
live outlet for mapping out breakers. I know they sell ones that put a
strong enough signal on the wires that you can track them in walls,
presumably battery powered for dead circuits. One catch is that the
basement ceiling is expanded metal lath. I don't expect to trace things
there, although a really good on might work up through the wood floors.

The electrician who fixed the first break had some kind of tracer, but
didn't have much luck with it. Apparently even a small load (a night
light in an outlet we didn't know was on the circuit) was enough to kill
the signal. I'd prefer something that was a bit more reliable.

Any recommendations? Something I can pick up at Lowes or Home Despot
would be good.

How much time don't you want to spend? Get an outlet checker for about
three bucks at the home store, then one at a time, starting at the panel,
check each outlet on that circuit; when you get to the one that's not
working, open it up and fix it. If when you open it to fix it, you find
that it's OK, then back up one and fix the output side of the outlet
that's previous to it (closer to the panel) on the string.

Have Fun!
Rich

On Sun, 29 May 2011 22:11:36 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Doug White wrote in
:

Somewhere in my house, I have a broken electrical connection. This is
the second time a circuit has developed a fault in the middle in the
last 6 months. The first time, a neutral connection let go where some
idiot had used a "back stab" (great name, considering how they fail)
connection in an outlet. Years of wiggling the outlet did it in. I
was flat out at work & had to pay several hundred bucks to get an
electrician to chase it down.

This time, I can probably fix it myself, but I'd prefer not to ruin
the entire weekend looking for it. Part of the circuit is live, and
then someplace, it ain't. The house is a 1952 vintage ranch, and the
wiring may run in the attic, or through the basement ceiling, when it
isn't going short distances in walls.

First, thanks to everyone for their support & suggestions. I have
emerged victorious, and can get back to my weekend plans.

Hurrah!


Fortunately, I do not have any aluminum wiring to deal with. I also
don't have a lot of backstabbed outlets to fail, but there may be one or
two left lying in wait. The original outlets weren't very robust. I
suspect that when they failed, the owners got a quick & dirty electrician
who installed replacements using the backstab connections. Some of the
original outlets have let go (literally; the plug can just fall out)
since we bought the place 8 years ago, and I've replaced them myself.

When I moved into this house 9+ years ago, I spent about $25 and
bought all new outlets, switches, and covers for every room in the
house and gar^H^H^Hshop. I also added 3 240v outlets for tools.
It took me a day, but I then had GROUNDED outlets. The old ones were 2
lug, not 3.


The key discovery was that several items in the basement were live, and
that extended past my daughter's bedroom. That meant the failure had to
be in one relatively small section of the house. The first outlet I
checked was the one that had triggered the problem when a vacuum cleaner
was plugged into it. It turned out to be A) relatively new, B) not
backstabbed, and C) at the end of it's run. This one had clearly been
replaced when the master bath was remodeled, because it actually had a
ground wire in the box. I should check that it is really grounded. Many
of the three prong outlets in the house aren't, and the original wiring
is all two wire, so the boxes aren't even grounded.

I had 14/3-wire but it was grounded to the outside of the box. I
almost climbed under the house and ran separate grounds.


There was another 3-prong outlet about 4 feet away that appeared
identical. I assumed that it had probably been replaced during the
remodel as well, but a quick bit of screwdriver work revealed that it was
both ungrounded AND backstabbed! Sure enough, one of the hot wires was
loose & singed. The wiggling involved in opening it up had restored the
full circuit, so I had my culprit. It's been properly replaced with a
new 2-hole outlet using screws, and everything is back to normal.

Bueno, bwana.


The outlet in question was behind a chair, and hasn't been touched in
years. There was a bit of corrosion on the wires from moisture from the
bathroom, and I suspect the connection got weaker & weaker over time, and
the starting surge from the vacuum cleaner was enough to vaporize the few
copper atoms still holding on. It's right next to the bathroom door,
which is fairly heavy, and vibration from the door opening & closing
several times a day probably aggravated the situation.

No doubt.


As time permits, I'm going to go looking for any additional 3 wire
outlets that aren't actually grounded. That may be a clue that they were
replaced by the same nitwit, and I can deal with them before they fail.

That's free, intelligent insurance. Go for it!

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

As time permits, I'm going to go looking for any additional 3 wire
outlets that aren't actually grounded. *That may be a clue that they were
replaced by the same nitwit, and I can deal with them before they fail.

Any standard outlet checker should tell you this, so finding them
should be trivial...in theory.
--Glenn Lyford