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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
I watched Texas Border Wars yesterday, a program about now brazen drug
dealers are becoming along the Texas/Mexico borders. What ****es me off is when the rules of engagement stop our LEOs in pursuit, or in doing some things that could interdict or wipe out some of these groups. And that involves pursuits on OUR SOIL. The thing that got me the most ****ed was when the helos were taking incoming ground fire, and were restricted in firing back. Google some fine viewing on "Iraqi insurgents" to see how the military boys THERE treat anyone shooting at them. A few Attack Helicopters on the border that are armed could put a kink in this crap in one day. A few snipers taking 100 yard shots would certainly make a change in attitude among the swimmers who swim the dope across. We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. Rules should be, once you hit US soil, you are what is called a target. It's time to treat the situation with the force it deserves. People who sell drugs to our children rank right up there with the chicken**** that plants IEDs on the roadside. Steve |
#2
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
Steve B wrote: We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII due to our allowing politicians to try to micro manage our military. The politicians need to be prohibited from exercising any control over the military beyond setting the initial goal, after that it should be 100% under military control how to accomplish the specified goal. |
#3
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
Pete C. wrote:
Steve B wrote: We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII due to our allowing politicians to try to micro manage our military. The politicians need to be prohibited from exercising any control over the military beyond setting the initial goal, after that it should be 100% under military control how to accomplish the specified goal. You sure nailed that one ! Give 'em their mission , then stand back and let 'em do their job . -- Snag Learning keeps you young ! |
#4
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
Pete C. wrote:
Steve B wrote: We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII due to our allowing politicians to try to micro manage our military. The politicians need to be prohibited from exercising any control over the military beyond setting the initial goal, after that it should be 100% under military control how to accomplish the specified goal. Short of "Seven Days in May", I'd agree. And Didn't Eisenhower warn about the Military-Industrial Complex? -- Richard Lamb |
#5
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
"CaveLamb" wrote in message m... Pete C. wrote: Steve B wrote: We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII due to our allowing politicians to try to micro manage our military. The politicians need to be prohibited from exercising any control over the military beyond setting the initial goal, after that it should be 100% under military control how to accomplish the specified goal. Short of "Seven Days in May", I'd agree. And Didn't Eisenhower warn about the Military-Industrial Complex? ....and little did we know then about General Jack D. Ripper, and all the little Rippers who wanted to nuke the commies. g And then there are the folks who believe that campesinos and drug dealers are pretty much the same thing, and that it's a military invasion. Kill 'em all and let God sort them out... -- Ed Huntress |
#6
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
On 3/14/2011 11:53 AM, Pete C. wrote:
Steve B wrote: We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII due to our allowing politicians to try to micro manage our military. The politicians need to be prohibited from exercising any control over the military beyond setting the initial goal, after that it should be 100% under military control how to accomplish the specified goal. Why mess around? Just hand the country over to the military. You like them so much just let them run things. We can get rid of the constitution and all the legal crap and just let the generals run things. Look at history, they have a great record whenever they run a country. Don't they? Hawke |
#7
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
But, someone might get hurt!
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Pete C." wrote in message ster.com... You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII due to our allowing politicians to try to micro manage our military. The politicians need to be prohibited from exercising any control over the military beyond setting the initial goal, after that it should be 100% under military control how to accomplish the specified goal. |
#8
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
"Steve Ackman" wrote in message ... In .com, on Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:53:34 -0600, Pete C., wrote: Steve B wrote: You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII I think we "won" Grenada. And Panama. And Kosovo. And the Dominican Republic. And Iraq (Desert Storm). -- Ed Huntress |
#9
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Steve Ackman" wrote in message Mar 2011 12:53:34 -0600, Pete C., wrote: Steve B wrote: You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII I think we "won" Grenada. And Panama. And Kosovo. And the Dominican Republic. And Iraq (Desert Storm). Yeah, so how's that Iraq stuff workin' out for ya? Thanks, Rich |
#10
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
"Rich Grise" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: "Steve Ackman" wrote in message Mar 2011 12:53:34 -0600, Pete C., wrote: Steve B wrote: You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII I think we "won" Grenada. And Panama. And Kosovo. And the Dominican Republic. And Iraq (Desert Storm). Yeah, so how's that Iraq stuff workin' out for ya? Hey, we won the first conflict. The second one was Dumbya. -- Ed Huntress Thanks, Rich |
#11
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
Steve Ackman wrote:
In .com, on Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:53:34 -0600, Pete C., wrote: Steve B wrote: You may or may not have noticed, but we have lost every conflict since WWII I think we "won" Grenada. Yeah, so, to what purpose? What did that accomplish? Are they now a US "possession," like Puerto Rico? Is there anything there that we want, that we couldn't just buy? Thanks, Rich |
#12
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
"Steve B" wrote in message ... I watched Texas Border Wars yesterday, a program about now brazen drug dealers are becoming along the Texas/Mexico borders. What ****es me off is when the rules of engagement stop our LEOs in pursuit, or in doing some things that could interdict or wipe out some of these groups. And that involves pursuits on OUR SOIL. The thing that got me the most ****ed was when the helos were taking incoming ground fire, and were restricted in firing back. Google some fine viewing on "Iraqi insurgents" to see how the military boys THERE treat anyone shooting at them. A few Attack Helicopters on the border that are armed could put a kink in this crap in one day. A few snipers taking 100 yard shots would certainly make a change in attitude among the swimmers who swim the dope across. We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. Rules should be, once you hit US soil, you are what is called a target. It's time to treat the situation with the force it deserves. People who sell drugs to our children rank right up there with the chicken**** that plants IEDs on the roadside. Steve What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? |
#13
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
Why are people so cruel wrote: What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? The demand, which is common to every country. What distinguishes some countries is they are suppliers. So it doesn't matter which came first. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
#14
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
Why are people so cruel wrote: "Steve B" wrote in message ... I watched Texas Border Wars yesterday, a program about now brazen drug dealers are becoming along the Texas/Mexico borders. What ****es me off is when the rules of engagement stop our LEOs in pursuit, or in doing some things that could interdict or wipe out some of these groups. And that involves pursuits on OUR SOIL. The thing that got me the most ****ed was when the helos were taking incoming ground fire, and were restricted in firing back. Google some fine viewing on "Iraqi insurgents" to see how the military boys THERE treat anyone shooting at them. A few Attack Helicopters on the border that are armed could put a kink in this crap in one day. A few snipers taking 100 yard shots would certainly make a change in attitude among the swimmers who swim the dope across. We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. Rules should be, once you hit US soil, you are what is called a target. It's time to treat the situation with the force it deserves. People who sell drugs to our children rank right up there with the chicken**** that plants IEDs on the roadside. Steve What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? The supply of a drug invariably has to come first before there can be a demand for it. The more general demand for "something to distract me from my pathetic life" of course has existed as long as sentient life has existed. |
#15
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
"Why are people so cruel" wrote in message pond.com... What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? Relaxed morals...if in fact using drugs has a moral element. I think the question is "What is the attraction to drugs?" Is it ingrained into the human psyche? Why weren't humans designed better? (Especially in the lower back area, pancreas, knees, eyes and hail loss.) |
#16
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
Tom Gardner wrote: "Why are people so cruel" wrote in message pond.com... What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? Relaxed morals...if in fact using drugs has a moral element. I think the question is "What is the attraction to drugs?" Is it ingrained into the human psyche? Why weren't humans designed better? (Especially in the lower back area, pancreas, knees, eyes and hail loss.) As I noted, the more general demand for "something to distract me from my pathetic life" of course has existed as long as sentient life has existed. This distraction takes many forms, good food, sports, sex, music, drugs, etc. and for pretty much any distraction from your pathetic life, there is some self proclaimed prophet or the like who will claim it's somehow immoral. The only immoral thing is the person trying to impose their beliefs on others. |
#17
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
"Pete C." wrote in message ster.com... Tom Gardner wrote: "Why are people so cruel" wrote in message pond.com... What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? Relaxed morals...if in fact using drugs has a moral element. I think the question is "What is the attraction to drugs?" Is it ingrained into the human psyche? Why weren't humans designed better? (Especially in the lower back area, pancreas, knees, eyes and hail loss.) As I noted, the more general demand for "something to distract me from my pathetic life" of course has existed as long as sentient life has existed. This distraction takes many forms, good food, sports, sex, music, drugs, etc. and for pretty much any distraction from your pathetic life, there is some self proclaimed prophet or the like who will claim it's somehow immoral. The only immoral thing is the person trying to impose their beliefs on others. ******************** How does one KNOW they have a pathetic life? Some of the happiest people I've ever met were dirt poor and I've known some very unhappy rich people. I know these are philosophical things that just can't be answered but it's brain candy to ponder. Throughout history laws and social acceptability have been in a state of flux for the use of what we call drugs. I'll go back to the premise that humans are flawed and there is a propensity to "distract", like you say. So, is there a solution to substance abuse? Probably not a panacea but as many solutions as there are people. I think the biggest part of the drug situation isn't the users, it's the lust for the money involved...an even more basic human flaw. |
#18
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
Tom Gardner wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ster.com... Tom Gardner wrote: "Why are people so cruel" wrote in message pond.com... What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? Relaxed morals...if in fact using drugs has a moral element. I think the question is "What is the attraction to drugs?" Is it ingrained into the human psyche? Why weren't humans designed better? (Especially in the lower back area, pancreas, knees, eyes and hail loss.) As I noted, the more general demand for "something to distract me from my pathetic life" of course has existed as long as sentient life has existed. This distraction takes many forms, good food, sports, sex, music, drugs, etc. and for pretty much any distraction from your pathetic life, there is some self proclaimed prophet or the like who will claim it's somehow immoral. The only immoral thing is the person trying to impose their beliefs on others. ******************** How does one KNOW they have a pathetic life? Some of the happiest people I've ever met were dirt poor and I've known some very unhappy rich people. I know these are philosophical things that just can't be answered but it's brain candy to ponder. Throughout history laws and social acceptability have been in a state of flux for the use of what we call drugs. I'll go back to the premise that humans are flawed and there is a propensity to "distract", like you say. So, is there a solution to substance abuse? Probably not a panacea but as many solutions as there are people. I think the biggest part of the drug situation isn't the users, it's the lust for the money involved...an even more basic human flaw. Realize that the money involved in drugs only comes about when someone tries to ban them and thus increases cost and demand. It's pretty clear that if marijuana was legal it would have essentially no "street value", and people would simply grow it on their windowsill like catnip from a $0.25 packet of seeds from Wal Mart. |
#19
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
Supply. People don't just wake up and say "you know, I sure
wish I had some qwertyuiop, but it hasn't been invented yet." -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Why are people so cruel" wrote in message news:ESufp.12897 People who sell drugs to our children rank right up there with the chicken**** that plants IEDs on the roadside. Steve What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? |
#20
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
On 3/14/2011 1:27 PM, Why are people so cruel wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message ... I watched Texas Border Wars yesterday, a program about now brazen drug dealers are becoming along the Texas/Mexico borders. What ****es me off is when the rules of engagement stop our LEOs in pursuit, or in doing some things that could interdict or wipe out some of these groups. And that involves pursuits on OUR SOIL. The thing that got me the most ****ed was when the helos were taking incoming ground fire, and were restricted in firing back. Google some fine viewing on "Iraqi insurgents" to see how the military boys THERE treat anyone shooting at them. A few Attack Helicopters on the border that are armed could put a kink in this crap in one day. A few snipers taking 100 yard shots would certainly make a change in attitude among the swimmers who swim the dope across. We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. Rules should be, once you hit US soil, you are what is called a target. It's time to treat the situation with the force it deserves. People who sell drugs to our children rank right up there with the chicken**** that plants IEDs on the roadside. Steve What comes first? The demand for the drug or the supply of the drug? Maybe it would just be easier to shoot the kids who go looking for the drugs. It would be a lot easier, and it would prevent them from ever doing it again. Kill the drug users and win the drug war. A genius plan so I'm sure the conservatives will go for it. Hawke |
#21
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
I think the restrictions on our LEO have been going on for a
while. It angers me, that our guy can't deal properly with criminals. And the judges release the criminals. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Steve B" wrote in message ... I watched Texas Border Wars yesterday, a program about now brazen drug dealers are becoming along the Texas/Mexico borders. What ****es me off is when the rules of engagement stop our LEOs in pursuit, or in doing some things that could interdict or wipe out some of these groups. And that involves pursuits on OUR SOIL. The thing that got me the most ****ed was when the helos were taking incoming ground fire, and were restricted in firing back. Google some fine viewing on "Iraqi insurgents" to see how the military boys THERE treat anyone shooting at them. A few Attack Helicopters on the border that are armed could put a kink in this crap in one day. A few snipers taking 100 yard shots would certainly make a change in attitude among the swimmers who swim the dope across. We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. Rules should be, once you hit US soil, you are what is called a target. It's time to treat the situation with the force it deserves. People who sell drugs to our children rank right up there with the chicken**** that plants IEDs on the roadside. Steve |
#22
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs......
On 3/14/2011 6:29 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I think the restrictions on our LEO have been going on for a while. It angers me, that our guy can't deal properly with criminals. And the judges release the criminals. you want lower taxes don't you? releasing the criminals reduces cost of incarceration. In fact, eliminating jails and police will save even more money. |
#23
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
"." wrote in message ... On 3/14/2011 6:29 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: I think the restrictions on our LEO have been going on for a while. It angers me, that our guy can't deal properly with criminals. And the judges release the criminals. you want lower taxes don't you? releasing the criminals reduces cost of incarceration. In fact, eliminating jails and police will save even more money. I would go for that in a second if there was a lifting of hunting season, hunting means, and bag limit. Some of those ranchers down there are in a boatload of **** for just protecting their own properties. I guarantee if you let Texicans use their guns the way they want to, this foolishment would drop by half in a week. Just like Nam, shoot 'em, and let them drift down the river. Crab food. Steve |
#24
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
It may lead to increased violence as the border criminals
would take up arms. But, interesting to try for a while. At least the constitutional rights (to keep and bear arms, and protect oneself) would be restored for the ranchers. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Steve B" wrote in message ... I would go for that in a second if there was a lifting of hunting season, hunting means, and bag limit. Some of those ranchers down there are in a boatload of **** for just protecting their own properties. I guarantee if you let Texicans use their guns the way they want to, this foolishment would drop by half in a week. Just like Nam, shoot 'em, and let them drift down the river. Crab food. Steve |
#25
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
It's been a couple decades. But, I remember reading that
some class of criminals are far more expensive "loose". Because they burgle, steal, assault, etc. Actually cheaper for society when locked up. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "." wrote in message ... On 3/14/2011 6:29 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: you want lower taxes don't you? releasing the criminals reduces cost of incarceration. In fact, eliminating jails and police will save even more money. |
#26
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 17:40:24 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: SNIP It's been a couple decades. But, I remember reading that some class of criminals are far more expensive "loose". Because they burgle, steal, assault, etc. Actually cheaper for society when locked up. SNIP ========== Not that difficult a calculation to make, although it drives some people wild. As a general rule of thumb, a criminal must steal/rob about 10X as much as he actually spends on his life style, assuming he is a full-time criminal. From what I can tell, most criminal lifestyles are pretty marginal despite what you see on TV and in the movies. The ones that make the headlines are the "super stars," during their "peak earning years." Assuming a marginal life style for the average criminal, about 25,000$ per year total will be required depending on the area, social safety net services such as subsidized rent in public housing, emergency room medical care, food stamps, etc. FWIW -- it appears that in many cases, low level criminal activity is undertaken to augment the low pay from the available McJobs, so the total from marginal criminal activity like car clouting will be less. This indicated a direct loss to society of about 250,000$ per year for a typical full time criminal. This goes higher when collateral property damage, vic medical care, lost productivity because of need to file police reports, etc. is included, and there is considerable additional consequential costs generated such as police apprehension [attempts] and court processing. The probabilistic factor is the likelihood that a typical perp would have changed his ways out on the street during the time he is in prison. Even in California which AFAIK is the highest cost state per prisoner at 133$ per inmate per day or $48,500 per year, this appears to be highly cost effective in the aggregate, but not in direct state [tax payer funded] costs, which is where the problems arise. http://reason.org/blog/show/cutting-...sts-california -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#27
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:41:08 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote: I watched Texas Border Wars yesterday, a program about now brazen drug dealers are becoming along the Texas/Mexico borders. What ****es me off is when the rules of engagement stop our LEOs in pursuit, or in doing some things that could interdict or wipe out some of these groups. And that involves pursuits on OUR SOIL. Indeed! The thing that got me the most ****ed was when the helos were taking incoming ground fire, and were restricted in firing back. Google some fine viewing on "Iraqi insurgents" to see how the military boys THERE treat anyone shooting at them. Considering that terrorists are coming along with the drug smugglers and S/A illegals, those goddamned doors should be shut permanently. Vaporizing lasers covering the terrain between countries would easily handle this load with only a few operators. AI could be trained to spot wildlife and let it through safely, alerting the operators to handle the human targets. A few Attack Helicopters on the border that are armed could put a kink in this crap in one day. A few snipers taking 100 yard shots would certainly make a change in attitude among the swimmers who swim the dope across. If not lasers, dope or not, anyone caught crossing illegally should be given the 50 round test. Anyone surviving 50 rounds from a gat or squad machine gun (as well as collectible sized parts of the rest) should be deported. We have armed foreigners landing on our soil for whatever reason, and our LEOs are handcuffed by rules of engagement. Billions of dollars in drugs coming in to decay us from the inside, and we must play by the rules set up by politicians. Rules should be, once you hit US soil, you are what is called a target. Agreed. It's time to treat the situation with the force it deserves. People who sell drugs to our children rank right up there with the chicken**** that plants IEDs on the roadside. Not EVEN, Steve. If people didn't want their drugs, drugs couldn't fetch the price they do and make the whole smuggling thing profitable. If there weren't a market, the drug dealers would dry up. Think about it. -- Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises. -- Demosthenes |
#28
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A couple of Hellfires ......... mebbe some A10 chain cannon runs ......
Steve B wrote: I watched Texas Border Wars yesterday, a program about now brazen drug dealers are becoming along the Texas/Mexico borders. Do they have non-DU ammo for the GAU-8? If not, then may I suggest an AC-130 or some CBU-87s? -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
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