Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

We were buying a product called Kleen-Kote, it was a pre-primed,
weldable tube, we could get it in 16 ga. 1x1 box and 1x2 box, and it met
more than 75% of our steel needs. About a year ago out supplier began
to have trouble finding it, and as far as we can tell, the supply is now
gone.

The nearest substitute they can find for us now is a product that
appears to be made from pre-painted coil, which is then formed and
welded into box tube. The paint is scuffed off in the forming and the
welding seam area is not painted either. And we have found some
problems with the adhesion of the original paint to the steel as well.

We are trying to decide on our other options,

We can start either with plain tube, or we can clean the poorly painted
stuff we are now buying. then we are thinking about:

1. Build or buy some kind of solvent based steel tube carwash.
2. Some kind of acid based pickling process.
3. Some kind of sand blasting process.
4. Finding a new source for pre-primed 16 ga. box tube.

We are talking about 300 - 2500 linear feet a week, sometimes more.

Once the tube is cleaned and cut it will be assembled into many
different sized and shaped objects, so cleaning is easiest to do before
cutting.

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

I didn't understand whether or not you needed the paint. If not:
Have you looked into "P&O" (Pickled and Oiled)in the shape you want?
It comes as hot rolled mild steel in many solid shapes, ie: rectangles,
rounds, etc.. They already have done the acid etch or whatever, so it
looks like cold rolled, but it's made to hot rolled tolerances. All
you'd have to do is run it through an appropriate solvent (ask the
supplier of the steel) to get the oil off. It is priced somewhere
between hot rolled and cold rolled.
Again, I don't know if it comes in tubes or not.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

We were buying a product called Kleen-Kote, it was a pre-primed,
weldable tube, we could get it in 16 ga. 1x1 box and 1x2 box, and it met
more than 75% of our steel needs. About a year ago out supplier began
to have trouble finding it, and as far as we can tell, the supply is now
gone.

The nearest substitute they can find for us now is a product that
appears to be made from pre-painted coil, which is then formed and
welded into box tube. The paint is scuffed off in the forming and the
welding seam area is not painted either. And we have found some
problems with the adhesion of the original paint to the steel as well.

We are trying to decide on our other options,

We can start either with plain tube, or we can clean the poorly painted
stuff we are now buying. then we are thinking about:

1. Build or buy some kind of solvent based steel tube carwash.
2. Some kind of acid based pickling process.
3. Some kind of sand blasting process.
4. Finding a new source for pre-primed 16 ga. box tube.

We are talking about 300 - 2500 linear feet a week, sometimes more.

Once the tube is cleaned and cut it will be assembled into many
different sized and shaped objects, so cleaning is easiest to do before
cutting.

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

"Stuart Wheaton" wrote in
message
...

Here's the question, how do you clean steel for
painting and so forth?

We were buying a product called Kleen-Kote, it
was a pre-primed, weldable tube, we could get it
in 16 ga. 1x1 box and 1x2 box, and it met more
than 75% of our steel needs. About a year ago
out supplier began to have trouble finding it,
and as far as we can tell, the supply is now
gone.

The nearest substitute they can find for us now
is a product that appears to be made from
pre-painted coil, which is then formed and
welded into box tube. The paint is scuffed off
in the forming and the welding seam area is not
painted either. And we have found some problems
with the adhesion of the original paint to the
steel as well.

We are trying to decide on our other options,

We can start either with plain tube, or we can
clean the poorly painted stuff we are now
buying. then we are thinking about:

1. Build or buy some kind of solvent based steel
tube carwash.
2. Some kind of acid based pickling process.
3. Some kind of sand blasting process.
4. Finding a new source for pre-primed 16 ga.
box tube.

We are talking about 300 - 2500 linear feet a
week, sometimes more.

Once the tube is cleaned and cut it will be
assembled into many different sized and shaped
objects, so cleaning is easiest to do before
cutting.

If you have a quick and effective technique, or
a good source for a machine or a steel supplier
(midwest USA) Cincinnati area. Please tell me
about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

Perhaps these people can be of help:

http://www.pangborngroup.com/Brands/Pangborn.aspx

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. * Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

Stuart

FWIW

Are you able to buy what you need in larger quantities to make it more
attractive to suppliers? This could lead to a lower or a more
stabilized price.

What lengths do you buy your steel in now?

I am not qualifed to input anything useful about bringing up what is
available to your needs.

Take care
Bob AZ

Bob AZ

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

We send it out. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On 2/1/2011 9:41 PM, Bob AZ wrote:
If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

Stuart

FWIW

Are you able to buy what you need in larger quantities to make it more
attractive to suppliers? This could lead to a lower or a more
stabilized price.

What lengths do you buy your steel in now?

I am not qualifed to input anything useful about bringing up what is
available to your needs.

Take care
Bob AZ

Bob AZ

Bob,

We buy thousands of feet a month, we are on good terms and definitely a
volume buyer. In the last 10 days we got 200 24 foot sticks of 1x1
alone. The problem is that the stuff we liked has gone away during the
recession. I hope somebody buys the patent, or the machines, or
re-starts the line, but right now we can't get it. As far as our
distributor can tell, it isn't being made, so we are stuck right now
dealing with this. Price isn't an issue, we just cannot find it.

We had been buying the Kleen Kote for about 10 years, and our volume has
gone up massively during that time. We used to be able to just run a
solvent rag over the steel to get it clean of mill oil, and we still did
that with the odd sizes that we couldn't get pre-primed, but we are now
looking at huge time and solvent costs.

Everything has to be clean, and has to be painted, the final product
cannot be sent out as raw steel.

Stuart

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

We were buying a product called Kleen-Kote, it was a pre-primed,
weldable tube, we could get it in 16 ga. 1x1 box and 1x2 box, and it met
more than 75% of our steel needs. About a year ago out supplier began
to have trouble finding it, and as far as we can tell, the supply is now
gone.

The nearest substitute they can find for us now is a product that
appears to be made from pre-painted coil, which is then formed and
welded into box tube. The paint is scuffed off in the forming and the
welding seam area is not painted either. And we have found some
problems with the adhesion of the original paint to the steel as well.

We are trying to decide on our other options,

We can start either with plain tube, or we can clean the poorly painted
stuff we are now buying. then we are thinking about:

1. Build or buy some kind of solvent based steel tube carwash.
2. Some kind of acid based pickling process.
3. Some kind of sand blasting process.
4. Finding a new source for pre-primed 16 ga. box tube.

We are talking about 300 - 2500 linear feet a week, sometimes more.

Once the tube is cleaned and cut it will be assembled into many
different sized and shaped objects, so cleaning is easiest to do before
cutting.

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. Please tell
me about it.


You have AK Steel in Middletown. They manufactured square steel
tubing when I lived there.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

We were buying a product called Kleen-Kote, it was a pre-primed,
weldable tube, we could get it in 16 ga. 1x1 box and 1x2 box, and it met
more than 75% of our steel needs. About a year ago out supplier began
to have trouble finding it, and as far as we can tell, the supply is now
gone.

The nearest substitute they can find for us now is a product that
appears to be made from pre-painted coil, which is then formed and
welded into box tube. The paint is scuffed off in the forming and the
welding seam area is not painted either. And we have found some
problems with the adhesion of the original paint to the steel as well.

We are trying to decide on our other options,

We can start either with plain tube, or we can clean the poorly painted
stuff we are now buying. then we are thinking about:

1. Build or buy some kind of solvent based steel tube carwash.
2. Some kind of acid based pickling process.
3. Some kind of sand blasting process.
4. Finding a new source for pre-primed 16 ga. box tube.

We are talking about 300 - 2500 linear feet a week, sometimes more.

Once the tube is cleaned and cut it will be assembled into many
different sized and shaped objects, so cleaning is easiest to do before
cutting.

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart


How about building yourself a tube washer?

Load as many tubes into a 6"? PVC pipe as will fit and then mix lye
and hot water and pump it in one end and out the other. This should
take off all the paint and grease. Then a fresh water rinse followed
by warm air to dry, and then immediatly prime.

You might need sime kind of fixturing to keep the tubes separate in
the plastic pipe.

This concept can easily be tested on a small scale to see if it would
work.

You might also ask someone in the plating or galvinizing business for
some suggestions, I am sure they deal with this kind of problem all
the time.

The reason I suggested lye is that once you neutralize the solution it
can go down the drain without getting the water treatment folks
upset. Large vats of solvent would probably be considered haz waste
and need $pecial permit$ and $pecial dispo$al contractor$ to take it
off your hands.

Roger Shoaf

On Feb 2, 1:16*am, RS at work wrote:
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

We were buying a product called Kleen-Kote, it was a pre-primed,
weldable tube, we could get it in 16 ga. 1x1 box and 1x2 box, and it met
more than 75% of our steel needs. *About a year ago out supplier began
to have trouble finding it, and as far as we can tell, the supply is now
gone.

The nearest substitute they can find for us now is a product that
appears to be made from pre-painted coil, which is then formed and
welded into box tube. *The paint is scuffed off in the forming and the
welding seam area is not painted either. *And we have found some
problems with the adhesion of the original paint to the steel as well.

We are trying to decide on our other options,

We can start either with plain tube, or we can clean the poorly painted
stuff we are now buying. *then we are thinking about:

1. Build or buy some kind of solvent based steel tube carwash.
2. Some kind of acid based pickling process.
3. Some kind of sand blasting process.
4. Finding a new source for pre-primed 16 ga. box tube.

We are talking about 300 - 2500 linear feet a week, sometimes more.

Once the tube is cleaned and cut it will be assembled into many
different sized and shaped objects, so cleaning is easiest to do before
cutting.

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. * Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

How about building yourself a tube washer?

Load as many tubes into a 6"? PVC pipe as will fit and then mix lye
and hot water and pump it in one end and out the other. *This should
take off all the paint and grease. *Then a fresh water rinse followed
by warm air to dry, and then immediatly prime.

You might need sime kind of fixturing to keep the tubes separate in
the plastic pipe.

This concept can easily be tested on a small scale to see if it would
work.

You might also ask someone in the plating or galvinizing business for
some suggestions, I am sure they deal with this kind of problem all
the time.

The reason I suggested lye is that once you neutralize the solution it
can go down the drain without getting the water treatment folks
upset. *Large vats of solvent would probably be considered haz waste
and need $pecial permit$ and $pecial dispo$al contractor$ to take it
off your hands.

Roger Shoaf- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The lye may not be HAZ but the paint residue will be.

TMT

On Feb 1, 9:02*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
On 2/1/2011 9:41 PM, Bob AZ wrote:





If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. * Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

Stuart

FWIW

Are you able to buy what you need in larger quantities to make it more
attractive to suppliers? This could lead to a lower or a more
stabilized price.

What lengths do you buy your steel in now?

I am not qualifed to input anything useful about bringing up what is
available to your needs.

Take care
Bob *AZ

Bob *AZ

Bob,

We buy thousands of feet a month, we are on good terms and definitely a
volume buyer. *In the last 10 days we got 200 24 foot sticks of 1x1
alone. *The problem is that the stuff we liked has gone away during the
recession. *I hope somebody buys the patent, or the machines, or
re-starts the line, but right now we can't get it. *As far as our
distributor can tell, it isn't being made, so we are stuck right now
dealing with this. *Price isn't an issue, we just cannot find it.

We had been buying the Kleen Kote for about 10 years, and our volume has
gone up massively during that time. *We used to be able to just run a
solvent rag over the steel to get it clean of mill oil, and we still did
that with the odd sizes that we couldn't get pre-primed, but we are now
looking at huge time and solvent costs.

Everything has to be clean, and has to be painted, the final product
cannot be sent out as raw steel.

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In relation to the industry, your needs are small.

It is likely why the supply dried up...low demand on a high cost item
for the supplier.

Are you sure that huge time/solvet costs are that bad?

The amount you describe doesn't sound like a lot of steel...hire some
minimum wage folks to wipe it down.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Feb 2, 1:16*am, RS at work wrote:
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

We were buying a product called Kleen-Kote, it was a pre-primed,
weldable tube, we could get it in 16 ga. 1x1 box and 1x2 box, and it met
more than 75% of our steel needs. *About a year ago out supplier began
to have trouble finding it, and as far as we can tell, the supply is now
gone.

The nearest substitute they can find for us now is a product that
appears to be made from pre-painted coil, which is then formed and
welded into box tube. *The paint is scuffed off in the forming and the
welding seam area is not painted either. *And we have found some
problems with the adhesion of the original paint to the steel as well..

We are trying to decide on our other options,

We can start either with plain tube, or we can clean the poorly painted
stuff we are now buying. *then we are thinking about:

1. Build or buy some kind of solvent based steel tube carwash.
2. Some kind of acid based pickling process.
3. Some kind of sand blasting process.
4. Finding a new source for pre-primed 16 ga. box tube.

We are talking about 300 - 2500 linear feet a week, sometimes more.

Once the tube is cleaned and cut it will be assembled into many
different sized and shaped objects, so cleaning is easiest to do before
cutting.

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. * Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

How about building yourself a tube washer?

Load as many tubes into a 6"? PVC pipe as will fit and then mix lye
and hot water and pump it in one end and out the other. *This should
take off all the paint and grease. *Then a fresh water rinse followed
by warm air to dry, and then immediatly prime.

You might need sime kind of fixturing to keep the tubes separate in
the plastic pipe.

This concept can easily be tested on a small scale to see if it would
work.

You might also ask someone in the plating or galvinizing business for
some suggestions, I am sure they deal with this kind of problem all
the time.

The reason I suggested lye is that once you neutralize the solution it
can go down the drain without getting the water treatment folks
upset. *Large vats of solvent would probably be considered haz waste
and need $pecial permit$ and $pecial dispo$al contractor$ to take it
off your hands.

Roger Shoaf- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The lye may not be HAZ but the paint residue will be.

TMT

Since it is not lead based paint we are talking about here, and any
VOC's are long evaporated, what about the paint residue is a probem?
Think about the millions of paint brushes and rollers that are cleaned
up with soap and water every day.

I suspect that the solids left settle out in the sludge and the oils
softened by the lye float off as scum at the water treatment plant
like soap scum does. After the bugs get done not much is left in the
water.

Roger Shoaf

On Feb 1, 6:31*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:


If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. * Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

I did a search on Kleen-Kote and found Atlas tube.

http://www.atlastube.com/products/kleenkote.aspx

Suggest you contact them directly and see why your distributor is not
able to supply it.

Dan

On Feb 2, 1:26*am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Feb 1, 9:02*pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:





On 2/1/2011 9:41 PM, Bob AZ wrote:

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. * Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

Stuart

FWIW

Are you able to buy what you need in larger quantities to make it more
attractive to suppliers? This could lead to a lower or a more
stabilized price.

What lengths do you buy your steel in now?

I am not qualifed to input anything useful about bringing up what is
available to your needs.

Take care
Bob *AZ

Bob *AZ

Bob,

We buy thousands of feet a month, we are on good terms and definitely a
volume buyer. *In the last 10 days we got 200 24 foot sticks of 1x1
alone. *The problem is that the stuff we liked has gone away during the
recession. *I hope somebody buys the patent, or the machines, or
re-starts the line, but right now we can't get it. *As far as our
distributor can tell, it isn't being made, so we are stuck right now
dealing with this. *Price isn't an issue, we just cannot find it.

We had been buying the Kleen Kote for about 10 years, and our volume has
gone up massively during that time. *We used to be able to just run a
solvent rag over the steel to get it clean of mill oil, and we still did
that with the odd sizes that we couldn't get pre-primed, but we are now
looking at huge time and solvent costs.

Everything has to be clean, and has to be painted, the final product
cannot be sent out as raw steel.

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In relation to the industry, your needs are small.

It is likely why the supply dried up...low demand on a high cost item
for the supplier.

Are you sure that huge time/solvet costs are that bad?

The amount you describe doesn't sound like a lot of steel...hire some
minimum wage folks to wipe it down.

TMT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We used to run that much stuff through in a half a day for motorhome
trim. I don't know of any pipe washers that you can buy, our stuff
was part of a paint line, load up hanging racks on a conveyor and it
ran it through a washer about the size of a semi-trailer, through a
drying furnace, ditto, through a paint booth and then through a
horseshoe path in the curing furnace for the cure and cool down.
Unload and repeat, constantly. All home-made and custom-designed.

The problem with solvents is that they're prohibited in some places,
VOC's, ya'know, and some people just can't stand working with them.
Had that problem at the motorhome plant when we had to start wiping
down the pieces with solvent to get rid of oil they used for bending
while the washer was down. You never heard so much complaining in
your life! Go with water-based stuff and you start picking up rust on
steel parts. No good under paint.

Stan

While a guard at a GM plant I got to watch the Caustic Soda tank strip
off the paint and clean the steel for a re-paint.

The tank was heated and had a safety gravity dump to an outside tank.

The steel with paint shot sparks out of the tank and worked greatly.

Martin

On 2/2/2011 1:52 PM, wrote:
On Feb 2, 1:26 am, wrote:
On Feb 1, 9:02 pm, Stuart wrote:





On 2/1/2011 9:41 PM, Bob AZ wrote:

If you have a quick and effective technique, or a good source for a
machine or a steel supplier (midwest USA) Cincinnati area. Please tell
me about it.

Thanks,

Stuart

Stuart

FWIW

Are you able to buy what you need in larger quantities to make it more
attractive to suppliers? This could lead to a lower or a more
stabilized price.

What lengths do you buy your steel in now?

I am not qualifed to input anything useful about bringing up what is
available to your needs.

Take care
Bob AZ

Bob AZ

Bob,

We buy thousands of feet a month, we are on good terms and definitely a
volume buyer. In the last 10 days we got 200 24 foot sticks of 1x1
alone. The problem is that the stuff we liked has gone away during the
recession. I hope somebody buys the patent, or the machines, or
re-starts the line, but right now we can't get it. As far as our
distributor can tell, it isn't being made, so we are stuck right now
dealing with this. Price isn't an issue, we just cannot find it.

We had been buying the Kleen Kote for about 10 years, and our volume has
gone up massively during that time. We used to be able to just run a
solvent rag over the steel to get it clean of mill oil, and we still did
that with the odd sizes that we couldn't get pre-primed, but we are now
looking at huge time and solvent costs.

Everything has to be clean, and has to be painted, the final product
cannot be sent out as raw steel.

Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In relation to the industry, your needs are small.

It is likely why the supply dried up...low demand on a high cost item
for the supplier.

Are you sure that huge time/solvet costs are that bad?

The amount you describe doesn't sound like a lot of steel...hire some
minimum wage folks to wipe it down.

TMT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We used to run that much stuff through in a half a day for motorhome
trim. I don't know of any pipe washers that you can buy, our stuff
was part of a paint line, load up hanging racks on a conveyor and it
ran it through a washer about the size of a semi-trailer, through a
drying furnace, ditto, through a paint booth and then through a
horseshoe path in the curing furnace for the cure and cool down.
Unload and repeat, constantly. All home-made and custom-designed.

The problem with solvents is that they're prohibited in some places,
VOC's, ya'know, and some people just can't stand working with them.
Had that problem at the motorhome plant when we had to start wiping
down the pieces with solvent to get rid of oil they used for bending
while the washer was down. You never heard so much complaining in
your life! Go with water-based stuff and you start picking up rust on
steel parts. No good under paint.

Stan

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

Here's the question, how do you clean steel for painting and so forth?

There's a guy in the shop right now, assembling some shape out of about 2"
square tube. He mentioned that he's getting ready to paint it. I asked,
is there anything special about this material? It's just plain ol' steel?
and he allowed that yeah, it is.

He said that he had just finished sanding it, and was going to wipe it down
with acetone, let it dry, prime it, let _it_ dry (a couple of hours) and go
ahead and paint it.

Admittedly, that sounds terribly labor-intensive for your needs, but it's
an idea. You could probably get minimum-wage sanders and wipers, and help
the economy! :-)

Cheers!
Rich