Rich Grise wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

I have used my cutting torch oxygen in the past to get over temporary
breathing difficulties from excessive aluminum oxide dust, but I never
breathed only the bottle oxygen.
I fed it into my cupped hand to mix with air.
Still makes me nervous not knowing who might have contaminated that
bottle in the past.

Acetylene is lethal to lung tissue.

What you refer to is a mythical hazard. Putting 2,000+ PSI of pure O2 on
top of just about any contamination would be a serious hazard. If heard
similar worries about rust in an O2 cylinder, rust won't make it past
the inlet filter on the regulator and wouldn't harm you even if it did.
You simply will not get any contamination in welding grade O2 that will
harm you.

I'd tend to guess that the reason that the rule is so strict is because
when the tank goes empty, there's a non-zero chance that something other
than pharmaceutical oxygen might get into it.

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2. If acetylene was toxic enough
to harm you at a tiny fraction of a percent, welders would be dropping
dead all over the place just from turning on the acetylene to light
their torches.

"Pete C." writes:



And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

On Jan 12, 6:34*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. *I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

Didn't you ever see "Jaws"? The shark finds out how much energy is
stored in a scuba tank.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 12, 6:34*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. *I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Didn't you ever see "Jaws"? The shark finds out how much energy is
stored in a scuba tank.

Oh, poof. That was camera tricks. ;-)

A tank that can hold 2250 PSI would probably laugh at a mere bullet,
except for maybe an armor-piercing round. But I'm guessing.

I wonder if anybody's got a definitive answer to that one? Anyone ever
actually shot a full scuba tank or other high-pressure gas cylinder?

Once, when I was in the service, I was on a detail with a couple other guys
rearranging some storage garage. There was some kind of cylinder up against
the wall; one of the guys found a sledge hammer and took a swing at the
tank. I almost had a heart attack; I _shrieked_ "NO!!!!!!" and ducked
behind some box - I didn't know I could move that fast.

He didn't shatter the tank (Thank Gawd!), but how stupid can some people be?

Thanks!
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:

rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 12, 6:34 pm, Rich Grise wrote:
David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Didn't you ever see "Jaws"? The shark finds out how much energy is
stored in a scuba tank.

Oh, poof. That was camera tricks. ;-)

A tank that can hold 2250 PSI would probably laugh at a mere bullet,
except for maybe an armor-piercing round. But I'm guessing.

I wonder if anybody's got a definitive answer to that one? Anyone ever
actually shot a full scuba tank or other high-pressure gas cylinder?

Mythbusters did. They found the obvious, that a bullet hole makes a nice
jet nozzle, but it doesn't cause a catastrophic cylinder failure.

Catastrophic cylinder failure comes from sustained load stress cracking
in the aluminum, primarily seen in an older alloy no longer used for the
cylinders. Those failures rip sections out of the cylinder and send them
flying through anything in their way.


Once, when I was in the service, I was on a detail with a couple other guys
rearranging some storage garage. There was some kind of cylinder up against
the wall; one of the guys found a sledge hammer and took a swing at the
tank. I almost had a heart attack; I _shrieked_ "NO!!!!!!" and ducked
behind some box - I didn't know I could move that fast.

He didn't shatter the tank (Thank Gawd!), but how stupid can some people be?

Pretty stupid. The service gets some good people, but they also get a
good number of duds who don't have any better life / job opportunities.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:53:01 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

He didn't shatter the tank (Thank Gawd!), but how stupid can some people be?

Good, and Who's in the Whitehouse?

--
Some people hear voices. Some see invisible people.
Others have no imagination whatsoever.

On Jan 12, 6:34*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?...
Rich

A girlfriend's father was a physics professor who liked to play with
such toys on his large rural farm. I've wondered if he was the cause
of some UFO sightings.

Rich Grise wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

No, but I read the OSHA report (and saw the pics) from a guy at a
medical O2 place who put a small O2 cylinder that had a stuck valve in
such a vise and proceeded to try to remove the entire valve with the O2
still in the cylinder. Instead of creating a slow leak to drain the tank
as he probably intended, he managed to get an O2/aluminum dust fire
going and blow the cylinder up, embedding most of the cylinder in one
wall and depositing the guy's arm some distance from the rest of him.
This is why the medical vs. welding grade O2 thing is a myth, you simply
do not risk putting the best oxidizer there is in pure form and under
high pressure on top of some unknown gas remaining in the cylinder.

Pete C. wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

No, but I read the OSHA report (and saw the pics) from a guy at a
medical O2 place who put a small O2 cylinder that had a stuck valve in
such a vise and proceeded to try to remove the entire valve with the O2
still in the cylinder. Instead of creating a slow leak to drain the tank
as he probably intended, he managed to get an O2/aluminum dust fire
going and blow the cylinder up, embedding most of the cylinder in one
wall and depositing the guy's arm some distance from the rest of him.
This is why the medical vs. welding grade O2 thing is a myth, you simply
do not risk putting the best oxidizer there is in pure form and under
high pressure on top of some unknown gas remaining in the cylinder.

Yeah. The local welding store tells a story
of a guy that tried to transfer O2 from one
cylinder to another with used hydraulic hose.

All that was left of his head was a pink mist
on the wall.

So, oxygen is the best oxidizer? Would that make sense?

Sorry to hear that he didn't live to try again.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...

This is why the medical vs. welding grade O2 thing
is a myth, you simply
do not risk putting the best oxidizer there is in pure
form and under
high pressure on top of some unknown gas
remaining in the cylinder.

Yeah. The local welding store tells a story
of a guy that tried to transfer O2 from one
cylinder to another with used hydraulic hose.

All that was left of his head was a pink mist
on the wall.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:34:26 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

When I lived in Zambia I heard of a couple dangerous situations with
O2 bottles. A big one fell over at the waterworks and the valve broke
off - it went through the cement block wall like a needle through
butter.

In another case a few bottles fell off the back of a welding supply
truck. They found one several miles down the road - don't know if they
ever found the other 2.

wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:34:26 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

When I lived in Zambia I heard of a couple dangerous situations with
O2 bottles. A big one fell over at the waterworks and the valve broke
off - it went through the cement block wall like a needle through
butter.

In another case a few bottles fell off the back of a welding supply
truck. They found one several miles down the road - don't know if they
ever found the other 2.

Yep, you don't want to be careless with that much stored energy, even if
it's inert gas.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:34:26 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

When I lived in Zambia I heard of a couple dangerous situations with
O2 bottles. A big one fell over at the waterworks and the valve broke
off - it went through the cement block wall like a needle through
butter.

In another case a few bottles fell off the back of a welding supply
truck. They found one several miles down the road - don't know if they
ever found the other 2.

I saw one fall out of a metal basket while being lifted onto an offshore
platform. I was on the boat. The crane operator made the pick, and the
basket was about twenty feet up off the boat deck when the bottles shifted.
One fell out, and landed, you guessed it, on the cap. It shot up in the
air, in a long arc, and landed sploosh in the water a ways away. It would
have killed anyone it hit.

Steve

"Steve B" writes:



I saw one fall out of a metal basket while being lifted onto an offshore
platform. I was on the boat. The crane operator made the pick, and the
basket was about twenty feet up off the boat deck when the bottles shifted.
One fell out, and landed, you guessed it, on the cap. It shot up in the
air, in a long arc, and landed sploosh in the water a ways away. It would
have killed anyone it hit.

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2008/aair/ao-2008-053.aspx


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:34:26 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

My dad saw a bottle of compressed gas fall off a truck and snap off
the valve. It went about a block and then clear thru a brick wall. He
didn't know what happened beyond the brick wall.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:34:26 -0800, Rich Grise
wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
"Pete C." writes:

And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2.

That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...

Anyone heard the UL about the guy with the full scuba tank held
valve down in some kind of chain vise, and he somehow took the valve
out, and the tank turned into a rocket, went through the basement
ceiling, the upstairs ceiling, the roof, jetted around in an arc, and
embedded itself in the roof of some car?

I _do_ know that 2250 PSI (150 atmospheres) is a very formidable force.

Thanks,
Rich

My dad saw a bottle of compressed gas fall off a truck and snap off
the valve. It went about a block and then clear thru a brick wall. He
didn't know what happened beyond the brick wall.

In the Mythbusters test their cylinder went cleanly through their test
cinderblock wall, and would have gone through the next one if there was
a little more distance for it to accelerate again after going through
the first wall.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:34:56 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:



In the Mythbusters test their cylinder went cleanly through their test
cinderblock wall, and would have gone through the next one if there was
a little more distance for it to accelerate again after going through
the first wall.

In that same episode, Jamie was sitting in a boat in the bay when he
released the valves on two tanks pointed rearward. Boat hardly moved.
I always thought he should have positioned them below waterline for a
little more exciting ride.