I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought about
15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside is a
spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure what sort of
spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam rubber. The
pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up to
where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr LP50 5-
shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~ 525 feet per
sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2 match pistols, at
least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the higher
velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate. A thin
layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or gets shot off
fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy stick lube for metal
working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it won't evaporate. The
stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I don't know how long it's
going to last. If this wears off too fast, I may try a grease next.

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

Doug White wrote:
I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought about
15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside is a
spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure what sort of
spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam rubber. The
pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up to
where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr LP50 5-
shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~ 525 feet per
sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2 match pistols, at
least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the higher
velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate. A thin
layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or gets shot off
fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy stick lube for metal
working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it won't evaporate. The
stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I don't know how long it's
going to last. If this wears off too fast, I may try a grease next.

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White


How about changing the plate out with some polished stainless.
OR sand it a bit and paint it with graphite based paint.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Doug White wrote:

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the higher
velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate.

Any suggestions?

Well, isn't "pellets ... sticking" sort of an indicator of how accurate your
shot was? How do you measure the distance from the bulls-eye if the pellet
just falls off?

Thanks,
Rich

"Steve W." wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:
I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought
about 15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside
is a spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure
what sort of spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam
rubber. The pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the
trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up
to where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr
LP50 5- shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~
525 feet per sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2
match pistols, at least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when
the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the
higher velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate.
A thin layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or
gets shot off fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy
stick lube for metal working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it
won't evaporate. The stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I
don't know how long it's going to last. If this wears off too fast,
I may try a grease next.

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

How about changing the plate out with some polished stainless.
OR sand it a bit and paint it with graphite based paint.

I thought about stainless. I took the thing off the wall, and took a
much closer look. I found several interesting things:

1) The existing plate appears to be just flat (or it was, see below),
with no bends at the edges. It's a bit hard to measure, but using a bent
paper clip as a hook, I estimate the thickness to be somewhere between 50
& 60 mils. It looks like I should be able to replace it with a polished
SS sheet without too much trouble.

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an inch. It
doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant hammering with
pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a bit baffled as to the
mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent. The surface is also rough,
but that may just be residual bits of lead sticking to it.

3) The plate IS backed with foam rubber. That may have stiffened up over
time, contributing to a harder impact & agravating the sticking problem.
If I repalce the plate, I'll have to try to come up with a good
repalcement for the foam. It may be tricky to get the right stiffness,
given what may be available locally, and that my only sample is
thoroughly aged. There is a really good foam place in Boston that may be
able to come up with a close match.

I'm trying to practice every day, so I'm loathe to tear it apart at this
time. My club's indoor range is being rebuilt, so at the moment my
basement is the only place I have to shoot. I'm in New England, and
outdoors isn't an option this time of year. Once the club's indoor range
is operational, I can open my trap up & have more time to rebuild it
properly. I may need to experiment with the foam, and I have some
adhesive-backed sound absorbing rubber sheet that I could put on the back
of the plate to quiet the "clank".

Even with a SS plate, I think an occasional lubing might be a good idea,
so the original question still stands.

Doug White

Rich Grise wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the
higher velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate.

Any suggestions?

Well, isn't "pellets ... sticking" sort of an indicator of how
accurate your shot was? How do you measure the distance from the
bulls-eye if the pellet just falls off?

That's what the paper target in front of the plate is for...

Doug White

On Dec 30, 10:34*pm, Doug White wrote:

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas. *

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

I doubt if extreme pressure lube would help. Better a oil that will
wick back to a spot where a pellet has hit and removed the lube. So
maybe something like ATF and some wax. The wax will hold some ATF so
there is some ATF to wick back.

Dan

On Dec 31, 10:04*am, " wrote:
On Dec 30, 10:34*pm, Doug White wrote:

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas. *

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

I doubt if extreme pressure lube would help. *Better a oil that will
wick back to a spot where a pellet has hit and removed *the lube. *So
maybe something like ATF and some wax. *The wax will hold some ATF so
there is some ATF to wick back.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan

PAM cooking spray?

Doug,
I think the 1st problem is the design. The back plate should be angled at 45 degrees. and the bottom of the box should be sand.
The backing plate should be hardened and then 40 to 60 Shore "A" rubber should be glued to the rear side for sound damping. On the
current design, the sticking is caused by the rough pock marked surface. Sand it smooth and the sticking will go away. The reverse
dent is caused by metal stretching created when the backing plate deforms upon repeated impacts. It is the same principle that the
English wheel uses to bell sheet metal.

The best design of a pellet stop would allow you to reuse the pellets. To do this, use a whole series of hanging ropes in a
contiguous row backed by several other rows offset by 1/2 the rope diameter. three rows will do it. Behind that, use a 1\2" thick
sheet of rubber and of course, no noise.
Steve

"Doug White" wrote in message . ..
I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought about
15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside is a
spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure what sort of
spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam rubber. The
pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up to
where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr LP50 5-
shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~ 525 feet per
sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2 match pistols, at
least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the higher
velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate. A thin
layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or gets shot off
fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy stick lube for metal
working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it won't evaporate. The
stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I don't know how long it's
going to last. If this wears off too fast, I may try a grease next.

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 15:18:34 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

"Steve W." wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:
I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought
about 15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside
is a spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure
what sort of spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam
rubber. The pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the
trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up
to where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr
LP50 5- shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~
525 feet per sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2
match pistols, at least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when
the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the
higher velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate.
A thin layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or
gets shot off fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy
stick lube for metal working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it
won't evaporate. The stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I
don't know how long it's going to last. If this wears off too fast,
I may try a grease next.

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

How about changing the plate out with some polished stainless.
OR sand it a bit and paint it with graphite based paint.

I thought about stainless. I took the thing off the wall, and took a
much closer look. I found several interesting things:

1) The existing plate appears to be just flat (or it was, see below),
with no bends at the edges. It's a bit hard to measure, but using a bent
paper clip as a hook, I estimate the thickness to be somewhere between 50
& 60 mils. It looks like I should be able to replace it with a polished
SS sheet without too much trouble.

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an inch. It
doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant hammering with
pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a bit baffled as to the
mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent. The surface is also rough,
but that may just be residual bits of lead sticking to it.

3) The plate IS backed with foam rubber. That may have stiffened up over
time, contributing to a harder impact & agravating the sticking problem.
If I repalce the plate, I'll have to try to come up with a good
repalcement for the foam. It may be tricky to get the right stiffness,
given what may be available locally, and that my only sample is
thoroughly aged. There is a really good foam place in Boston that may be
able to come up with a close match.

I'm trying to practice every day, so I'm loathe to tear it apart at this
time. My club's indoor range is being rebuilt, so at the moment my
basement is the only place I have to shoot. I'm in New England, and
outdoors isn't an option this time of year. Once the club's indoor range
is operational, I can open my trap up & have more time to rebuild it
properly. I may need to experiment with the foam, and I have some
adhesive-backed sound absorbing rubber sheet that I could put on the back
of the plate to quiet the "clank".

Even with a SS plate, I think an occasional lubing might be a good idea,
so the original question still stands.

Doug, might it be easier to boil up some bullet lube and coat your
pellets in that instead of trying to keep the target slick?

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

Doug White wrote:
Rich Grise wrote in
Doug White wrote:

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the
higher velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate.

Any suggestions?

Well, isn't "pellets ... sticking" sort of an indicator of how
accurate your shot was? How do you measure the distance from the
bulls-eye if the pellet just falls off?

That's what the paper target in front of the plate is for...

Ah.

Never mind. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Dec 30, 8:34*pm, Doug White wrote:
I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought about
15 or 20 years ago. *It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside is a
spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. *I'm not sure what sort of
spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam rubber. *The
pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the trap. *

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up to
where they were when I was a lot younger. *I'm shooting a Steyr LP50 5-
shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~ 525 feet per
sec. *I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2 match pistols, at
least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the higher
velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate. *A thin
layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or gets shot off
fairly quickly. *Right now, I've applied some waxy stick lube for metal
working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it won't evaporate. *The
stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I don't know how long it's
going to last. *If this wears off too fast, I may try a grease next.

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I figured
folks here might have some more specific ideas. *

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

I've never see one with just a vertical plate. You'll get spatter
above a pretty low velocity, penetration with the high-end guns. The
one I use that I bought from Beeman's many years ago uses "ballistic
putty"(Duxseal) in a wood box with a cardboard face. You could do
the same with a loaf of Duxseal in a cardboard box. The ones they use
for matches use a square edged steel funnel going into a pellet
catcher. Noisy, but works.

Stan

On 2010-12-31, Doug White wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in
:

[ ... ]

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an inch. It
doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant hammering with
pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a bit baffled as to the
mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent. The surface is also rough,
but that may just be residual bits of lead sticking to it.

The impact of the pellets makes the plate a little thinner,
causing the area of impact to enlarge. Repeat this long enough, and you
have the center of the plate larger than the room for it in the rest of
the plate, so it is just a matter of luck whether it will bulge towards
or away from the shooter, but it *will* bulge some direction, so the
extra size can be accommodated.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 15:18:34 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

"Steve W." wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:
I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought
about 15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and
inside is a spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not
sure what sort of spring they use behind the plate, it may just be
foam rubber. The pellets flatten against the plate & fall down
inside the trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back
up to where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a
Steyr LP50 5- shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle
velocity of ~ 525 feet per sec. I think this is a bit hotter than
the older CO2 match pistols, at least it makes a more authoritative
"clank" when the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the
higher velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the
plate. A thin layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates
and/or gets shot off fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some
waxy stick lube for metal working (Boelube) on the theory that at
least it won't evaporate. The stick lube is relatively clean to
apply, but I don't know how long it's going to last. If this wears
off too fast, I may try a grease next.

I'm thinking an "extreme pressure" lube might be best, but I
figured folks here might have some more specific ideas.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Doug White

How about changing the plate out with some polished stainless.
OR sand it a bit and paint it with graphite based paint.

I thought about stainless. I took the thing off the wall, and took a
much closer look. I found several interesting things:

1) The existing plate appears to be just flat (or it was, see below),
with no bends at the edges. It's a bit hard to measure, but using a
bent paper clip as a hook, I estimate the thickness to be somewhere
between 50 & 60 mils. It looks like I should be able to replace it
with a polished SS sheet without too much trouble.

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an inch.
It doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant hammering
with pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a bit baffled as
to the mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent. The surface is
also rough, but that may just be residual bits of lead sticking to it.

3) The plate IS backed with foam rubber. That may have stiffened up
over time, contributing to a harder impact & agravating the sticking
problem. If I repalce the plate, I'll have to try to come up with a
good repalcement for the foam. It may be tricky to get the right
stiffness, given what may be available locally, and that my only
sample is thoroughly aged. There is a really good foam place in
Boston that may be able to come up with a close match.

I'm trying to practice every day, so I'm loathe to tear it apart at
this time. My club's indoor range is being rebuilt, so at the moment
my basement is the only place I have to shoot. I'm in New England,
and outdoors isn't an option this time of year. Once the club's
indoor range is operational, I can open my trap up & have more time to
rebuild it properly. I may need to experiment with the foam, and I
have some adhesive-backed sound absorbing rubber sheet that I could
put on the back of the plate to quiet the "clank".

Even with a SS plate, I think an occasional lubing might be a good
idea, so the original question still stands.

Doug, might it be easier to boil up some bullet lube and coat your
pellets in that instead of trying to keep the target slick?

You have to be careful with many lubes around high pressure air, and I'm
not wild about gunking up my expensive air pistol with excess lube. A
tiny dab on the nose would suffice, but lubing 60 pellets a night would
get tiresome pretty fast. Waxing the trap once before each session seems
to help a lot.

It occured to me that part of the problem is that I shoot 10 or 20 shots
per target, and that means (especially now that I'm getting better), a
lot of pellets are going through pre-existing holes. I shoot target "wad
cutter" pellets, so with a fresh target, the pellets nose is nicely
covered with a disk of paper, and can't stick. Once I've chewed up the
center of the target, I'll bet the ones that are sticking are going
though pre-existing holes, or close enough that there isn't a significant
paper buffer on the nose. The trap was originally intended for air
rifle, where one shot per bull is the norm.

In air pistol matches, they only shoot a couple shots max per target to
avoid scoring problems with pellets going through the same hole. For
practice, schleping back & forth every 2 or 3 shots gets time consuming,
and good targets aren't exactly cheap. They use special paper so it
doesn't tear & the holes made are crisp. I've been meaning to develop an
automatic remote controlled target changer for some time now, but that
will take a while.

I think a new stainless plate and softer fresh foam will help a lot.
McMaster has 410 SS sheet in 12" squares, and polyurethane foam in three
stiffnesses. I'm pretty sure the shop at work has a shear that can trim
the SS sheet for me. If I start with a good waxing before each session,
I should be good for another 20 years.

Doug White

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in
:

On 2010-12-31, Doug White wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in
:

[ ... ]

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an inch.
It doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant
hammering with pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a bit
baffled as to the mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent. The
surface is also rough, but that may just be residual bits of lead
sticking to it.

The impact of the pellets makes the plate a little thinner,
causing the area of impact to enlarge. Repeat this long enough, and
you have the center of the plate larger than the room for it in the
rest of the plate, so it is just a matter of luck whether it will
bulge towards or away from the shooter, but it *will* bulge some
direction, so the extra size can be accommodated.

Someone else suggested that it may be like a sheet metal shrinking hammer
in reverse. Because the pellets flatten when they hit, if they are also
sticking, the flattening action may be slowly expanding the surface of
the metal. That might preferentially make the dome form outward, instead
of simply denting in the direction of the pellet impacts.

Doug White

wrote in news:df4c0fa4-4982-4b71-a138-a84736ddcb78
@f30g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

I've never see one with just a vertical plate. You'll get spatter
above a pretty low velocity, penetration with the high-end guns. The
one I use that I bought from Beeman's many years ago uses "ballistic
putty"(Duxseal) in a wood box with a cardboard face. You could do
the same with a loaf of Duxseal in a cardboard box. The ones they use
for matches use a square edged steel funnel going into a pellet
catcher. Noisy, but works.

When it was new, it worked quite well. The foam absorbed enough of the
energy that the pellets didn't spatter and it soaked up a lot of the
noise as well. It's not meant for high velocity hunting rifles. I'm
going to be curious to compare the pellet deformation before & after
installing fresh foam.

I know a number of folks who use the putty traps. The problem is that
they get clogged up pretty fast if you practice a lot. I'm going through
a 500 pellet tin every week & a half at this point. The pellets rapidly
pile up & need to be pried out & the putty massaged back into place.

The conical or angled baffle traps work OK, but they tend to be a bit
deeper. Mine is just 4" thick & hangs nicely on the wall.

Doug White

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in
:

Doug,
I think the 1st problem is the design. The back plate should be angled
at 45 degrees. and the bottom of the box should be sand. The backing
plate should be hardened and then 40 to 60 Shore "A" rubber should be
glued to the rear side for sound damping. On the current design, the
sticking is caused by the rough pock marked surface. Sand it smooth
and the sticking will go away. The reverse dent is caused by metal
stretching created when the backing plate deforms upon repeated
impacts. It is the same principle that the English wheel uses to bell
sheet metal.

I agree. I think the expansion of the pellet as it flattens is
stretching the surface of the metal, causing it to swell outward. The
roughness of the plate now makes it worse.

The best design of a pellet stop would allow you to reuse the pellets.
To do this, use a whole series of hanging ropes in a contiguous row
backed by several other rows offset by 1/2 the rope diameter. three
rows will do it. Behind that, use a 1\2" thick sheet of rubber and of
course, no noise. Steve

We had a trap when I was a kid that used strips of denim & inner tube
hanging down. It was a pretty big boxy affair, much bigger than my
sprung plate trap. Reusing pellets for match practice isn't very
practical. Even if you trap a pellet with no deformation, the skirt has
already been swaged down to fit the bore & rifling. We could
occasionally find pellets that weren't too banged up in the denim trap,
but they never shot as well as fresh ones. We didn't mind running them
through our cheapo Benjamin pump rifle, but they picked up enough dust &
dirt that I wouldn't want to cycle them through an expensive match
pistol. I just collect them & give them to reloaders at my club.

Doug White

The same sort of surface expansion takes place with careless sandblasting of
sheet steel.
With a high air pressure and the nozzle too close to the sheetmetal, the
surface begins expanding, while the "back" side does not, causing the
surface to raise.

--
WB
..........


"Doug White" wrote in message
. ..

Someone else suggested that it may be like a sheet metal shrinking hammer
in reverse. Because the pellets flatten when they hit, if they are also
sticking, the flattening action may be slowly expanding the surface of
the metal. That might preferentially make the dome form outward, instead
of simply denting in the direction of the pellet impacts.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:

I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought about
15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside is a
spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure what sort of
spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam rubber. The
pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up to
where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr LP50 5-
shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~ 525 feet per
sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2 match pistols, at
least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the higher
velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate. A thin
layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or gets shot off
fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy stick lube for metal
working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it won't evaporate. The
stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I don't know how long it's
going to last. If this wears off too fast, I may try a grease next.

My trap is angled so I have never had that problem. Is it possible the hardness of your
pellets have changed since you bought the last batch?

Who do you get your targets from and what range do you shoot indoors?

Wes

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 15:36:09 -0500, Wes
wrote:

Doug White wrote:

I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought about
15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside is a
spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure what sort of
spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam rubber. The
pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up to
where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr LP50 5-
shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~ 525 feet per
sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2 match pistols, at
least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the higher
velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate. A thin
layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or gets shot off
fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy stick lube for metal
working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it won't evaporate. The
stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I don't know how long it's
going to last. If this wears off too fast, I may try a grease next.

My trap is angled so I have never had that problem. Is it possible the hardness of your
pellets have changed since you bought the last batch?

Who do you get your targets from and what range do you shoot indoors?

My first thought was that the mfgr went with a lead-free formula which
is now sticking to Doug's plate.

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

Wes wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:

I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought
about 15 or 20 years ago. It's a nicely finished oak box, and inside
is a spring loaded vertical galvanized steel plate. I'm not sure what
sort of spring they use behind the plate, it may just be foam rubber.
The pellets flatten against the plate & fall down inside the trap.

I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up
to where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr
LP50 5- shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~
525 feet per sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2
match pistols, at least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the
pellets hit.

I don't know if the galvanizing is worn off, or if it's just the
higher velocity, but the pellets have started sticking to the plate.
A thin layer of oil stops this for a while, but evaporates and/or gets
shot off fairly quickly. Right now, I've applied some waxy stick lube
for metal working (Boelube) on the theory that at least it won't
evaporate. The stick lube is relatively clean to apply, but I don't
know how long it's going to last. If this wears off too fast, I may
try a grease next.

My trap is angled so I have never had that problem. Is it possible
the hardness of your pellets have changed since you bought the last
batch?

I'm shooting standard match pellets, although I used to shoot mostly H&N
or RWS, I now shoot Vogels. It's possible the alloy is a little
stickier, but the trap is clearly eroded from years of use.

Who do you get your targets from and what range do you shoot indoors?

The two best target makers are Edelmann & Kruger. I think I'm using
Edelmanns at the moment. They use a much stiffer & thicker paper than US
targets. They use short fibers as well, to produce clean holes with no
tearing. They are available from a number of dealers who cater to
competitive shooting; Champions Choice, Pilkguns, & International
Shooters Service. I shoot at the standard 10 meter (33 feet) distance
for international competition.

Doug White

On 2011-01-01, Doug White wrote:

[ ... ]

In air pistol matches, they only shoot a couple shots max per target to
avoid scoring problems with pellets going through the same hole. For
practice, schleping back & forth every 2 or 3 shots gets time consuming,
and good targets aren't exactly cheap. They use special paper so it
doesn't tear & the holes made are crisp. I've been meaning to develop an
automatic remote controlled target changer for some time now, but that
will take a while.

Hmm ... target paper feels a lot like old yellow TeleType roll
paper, except perhaps a bit thicker. If you can get some rolls, cut off
a few squares and try them in place of the target material and see how
they do.

You might want to make a motorized roll to pull paper off a
source roll, and wind it up on a destination roll, or perhaps to simply
pull off a source roll, pull a known count of turns on pinch rollers,
and then run a cutter across below the pinch rollers to leave a pile of
perforated paper targets.

You'll need some way to protect the mechanism from stray
pellets, especially the pinch rollers.

As for the printed target -- set up a slide projector with an
image of a target on a slide and project it on the paper. Perhaps have
a solenoid close the shutter while the paper is in transist, so you
don't shoot at a stationary image on a moving paper background. :-)

To get the image to project in the right shape - take the photo
of a good target from the position where the projector will sit, so the
perspective distortion from the photo will cancel the perspective
distortion in the projected image.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 15:18:06 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in
:

On 2010-12-31, Doug White wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in
:

[ ... ]

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an inch.
It doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant
hammering with pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a bit
baffled as to the mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent. The
surface is also rough, but that may just be residual bits of lead
sticking to it.

The impact of the pellets makes the plate a little thinner,
causing the area of impact to enlarge. Repeat this long enough, and
you have the center of the plate larger than the room for it in the
rest of the plate, so it is just a matter of luck whether it will
bulge towards or away from the shooter, but it *will* bulge some
direction, so the extra size can be accommodated.

Someone else suggested that it may be like a sheet metal shrinking hammer
in reverse. Because the pellets flatten when they hit, if they are also
sticking, the flattening action may be slowly expanding the surface of
the metal. That might preferentially make the dome form outward, instead
of simply denting in the direction of the pellet impacts.

Doug White

See is Martin Fishburn has a bit of T1 armor plate he would sell you and
simply replace the existing plate with a new thicker one. 3/8" would be
more than thick enough and you would never have to replace it again.

Gunner

--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in
:

On 2011-01-01, Doug White wrote:

[ ... ]

In air pistol matches, they only shoot a couple shots max per target
to avoid scoring problems with pellets going through the same hole.
For practice, schleping back & forth every 2 or 3 shots gets time
consuming, and good targets aren't exactly cheap. They use special
paper so it doesn't tear & the holes made are crisp. I've been
meaning to develop an automatic remote controlled target changer for
some time now, but that will take a while.

Hmm ... target paper feels a lot like old yellow TeleType roll
paper, except perhaps a bit thicker. If you can get some rolls, cut
off a few squares and try them in place of the target material and see
how they do.

Folks are constantly trying to find a good substitute for target paper.
The teletype stuff is a new idea, but may be hard to come by in quantity.
Some people use cheap US targets & paint the back with dilute glue to
prevent tearing. Baking or microwaving them also helps.

You might want to make a motorized roll to pull paper off a
source roll, and wind it up on a destination roll, or perhaps to
simply pull off a source roll, pull a known count of turns on pinch
rollers, and then run a cutter across below the pinch rollers to leave
a pile of perforated paper targets.

You'll need some way to protect the mechanism from stray
pellets, especially the pinch rollers.

As for the printed target -- set up a slide projector with an
image of a target on a slide and project it on the paper. Perhaps
have a solenoid close the shutter while the paper is in transist, so
you don't shoot at a stationary image on a moving paper background.
:-)

They used to do something like this for big matches. They had a moving
"backer" that would slowly scroll behind the scoring target. They would
fire 5 or 10 shots per target and use the backer to sort out if multiple
shots went through the same hole. This was used for 50 meter free pistol
at the Olympic level, where guys are good enough to make it an issue.
Now the scoring is all done electronically, but it's filthy expensive to
set up a full range. I think there are only a couple in the US with all
the hardware.

To get the image to project in the right shape - take the photo
of a good target from the position where the projector will sit, so
the perspective distortion from the photo will cancel the perspective
distortion in the projected image.

Interesting ideas.

I was thinking about making something that could be produced in
sufficient quantities that it could be used for matches, which requires
that it handle regulation targets. Ideally, you would be able to load 62
targets (one shot per target for major competitions + 2 sighter targets)
into a hopper. I need to study the innards of my laser printer to see
how it picks up & feeds one sheet at a time. The targets should be
simpler, in that they are thicker & stiffer. To keep the changer simple
& low power, a bin on top could drop them down into firing position, and
then drop them into a hopper below the pellet trap.

Doug White

Gunner Asch wrote in
:

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 15:18:06 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in
:

On 2010-12-31, Doug White wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in
:

[ ... ]

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an
inch. It doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant
hammering with pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a
bit baffled as to the mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent.
The surface is also rough, but that may just be residual bits of
lead sticking to it.

The impact of the pellets makes the plate a little thinner,
causing the area of impact to enlarge. Repeat this long enough, and
you have the center of the plate larger than the room for it in the
rest of the plate, so it is just a matter of luck whether it will
bulge towards or away from the shooter, but it *will* bulge some
direction, so the extra size can be accommodated.

Someone else suggested that it may be like a sheet metal shrinking
hammer in reverse. Because the pellets flatten when they hit, if they
are also sticking, the flattening action may be slowly expanding the
surface of the metal. That might preferentially make the dome form
outward, instead of simply denting in the direction of the pellet
impacts.

Doug White

See is Martin Fishburn has a bit of T1 armor plate he would sell you
and simply replace the existing plate with a new thicker one. 3/8"
would be more than thick enough and you would never have to replace it
again.

The problem with a heavier plate is that it won't allow the foam backer
to absorb any energy. Ideally, the plate should be as thin & light as
possible so the energy goes into the foam, and not into deforming the
pellet. A harder, stiffer plate should help, so stainless is a step in
the right direction compared to the original galvanized steel (probably
A653 or similar). If I use 410, which is easy to shear to size, I could
get then it hardened. I don't mind replacing the plate (or just flipping
it over before it gets too deformed) every 10 years or so.

It occurs to me that replacing the foam with "temperpedic" foam that
soaks up energy better than springy foam should help a lot. A hydraulic
damper system would also work well, but is a bit overkill. There is
another trap someone used to make that just had light steel springs
behind the plate, with no energy damping at all. They were very noisey,
and tended to bounce the flattened pellets back out onto the floor.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:


I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up to
where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr LP50 5-
shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~ 525 feet per
sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2 match pistols, at
least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the pellets hit.


You have nice taste in air pistols.

Wes

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 14:30:10 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote in
:

On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 15:18:06 GMT, Doug White
wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in
:

On 2010-12-31, Doug White wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in
:

[ ... ]

2) The plate is bulged out in the center by about a 16th of an
inch. It doesn't appear to be lead build up. Somehow the constant
hammering with pellets has made the metal expand outward. I'm a
bit baffled as to the mechanism for this, it's like a reverse dent.
The surface is also rough, but that may just be residual bits of
lead sticking to it.

The impact of the pellets makes the plate a little thinner,
causing the area of impact to enlarge. Repeat this long enough, and
you have the center of the plate larger than the room for it in the
rest of the plate, so it is just a matter of luck whether it will
bulge towards or away from the shooter, but it *will* bulge some
direction, so the extra size can be accommodated.

Someone else suggested that it may be like a sheet metal shrinking
hammer in reverse. Because the pellets flatten when they hit, if they
are also sticking, the flattening action may be slowly expanding the
surface of the metal. That might preferentially make the dome form
outward, instead of simply denting in the direction of the pellet
impacts.

Doug White

See is Martin Fishburn has a bit of T1 armor plate he would sell you
and simply replace the existing plate with a new thicker one. 3/8"
would be more than thick enough and you would never have to replace it
again.

The problem with a heavier plate is that it won't allow the foam backer
to absorb any energy. Ideally, the plate should be as thin & light as
possible so the energy goes into the foam, and not into deforming the
pellet. A harder, stiffer plate should help, so stainless is a step in
the right direction compared to the original galvanized steel (probably
A653 or similar). If I use 410, which is easy to shear to size, I could
get then it hardened. I don't mind replacing the plate (or just flipping
it over before it gets too deformed) every 10 years or so.

A bit of shag carpet glued to the back of a piece of plate will really
really deaden the sound on a piece of 3/8 plate steel. Thats what I made
my .22 air rifle backing from when I was shooting in my old home shop.
Worked very well. Just a heads up.


It occurs to me that replacing the foam with "temperpedic" foam that
soaks up energy better than springy foam should help a lot. A hydraulic
damper system would also work well, but is a bit overkill. There is
another trap someone used to make that just had light steel springs
behind the plate, with no energy damping at all. They were very noisey,
and tended to bounce the flattened pellets back out onto the floor.

Doug White

Try a piece of 3/8 or 1/2" T1 with some shag carpet rubber cemented to
the back. It should work nicely and you wont be out much if its not
satisfactory. Hell..even mild steel should work at 21grs and 600 fps.

Gunner


--

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
Robert A. Heinlein

Wes wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:


I have been practicing a lot lately, trying to get my scores back up
to where they were when I was a lot younger. I'm shooting a Steyr
LP50 5- shot compressed air pistol, which has a muzzle velocity of ~
525 feet per sec. I think this is a bit hotter than the older CO2
match pistols, at least it makes a more authoritative "clank" when the
pellets hit.

You have nice taste in air pistols.

Thanks. I wrestled for quite a while over the expense, but the thing is
just amazingly fun to shoot. I've seen my .22 scores slowly slide over
the last couple years, and with a 2 pound trigger, the Steyr is great
practice. I've developed sporadic muscle spasms in my arm that will flip
a shot outside of the scoring rings if it occurs at the wrong time. I've
learned to put the pistol down in slow fire before it gets bad, but in
sustained fire, it's a lot tougher to deal with. I'm hoping exercise &
lots of shooting will make it go away.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:

You have nice taste in air pistols.

Thanks. I wrestled for quite a while over the expense, but the thing is
just amazingly fun to shoot. I've seen my .22 scores slowly slide over
the last couple years, and with a 2 pound trigger, the Steyr is great
practice. I've developed sporadic muscle spasms in my arm that will flip
a shot outside of the scoring rings if it occurs at the wrong time. I've
learned to put the pistol down in slow fire before it gets bad, but in
sustained fire, it's a lot tougher to deal with. I'm hoping exercise &
lots of shooting will make it go away.

I started shooting an air pistol recently when it became apparent I'm not as steady as I
used to be shooting rim fire and centerfire. I'm hoping the daily exercise also will
bring improvement. I'm not shooting anything as nice as yours, just a Crosman 1377 with
the steel breech kit and Williams Sight. It beats not shooting during the winter months.

I'd really like to get a IZH-46 later this year.

What do you charge yours with? Scuba tank?

Wes

Wes wrote in
:

Doug White wrote:

You have nice taste in air pistols.

Thanks. I wrestled for quite a while over the expense, but the thing
is just amazingly fun to shoot. I've seen my .22 scores slowly slide
over the last couple years, and with a 2 pound trigger, the Steyr is
great practice. I've developed sporadic muscle spasms in my arm that
will flip a shot outside of the scoring rings if it occurs at the
wrong time. I've learned to put the pistol down in slow fire before
it gets bad, but in sustained fire, it's a lot tougher to deal with.
I'm hoping exercise & lots of shooting will make it go away.

I started shooting an air pistol recently when it became apparent I'm
not as steady as I used to be shooting rim fire and centerfire. I'm
hoping the daily exercise also will bring improvement. I'm not
shooting anything as nice as yours, just a Crosman 1377 with the steel
breech kit and Williams Sight. It beats not shooting during the
winter months.

I'd really like to get a IZH-46 later this year.

What do you charge yours with? Scuba tank?

I use a Hill brand pump with the dessicant cartridge. The pistol's air
cylinder lasts about three 60 - 80 shot practice sessions. When it gets
low, I pump it back up AFTER a practice session. The pump is a lot of
work, especially the last little bit at 3000 PSI. I consider it part of
my training regimen.

The advantage of the pump (beside the exercise) is the lack of hassle
with a scuba tank. No issues with refilling it, no problems with
periodic hydro testing, no (minor) safety concerns having a bomb in the
basement. I've had the pump almost long enough that I would had to have
a tank hydrotested, at which point the small extra initial expense is
paid off & then some.

Doug White

Doug White wrote:

I have a trap for shooting pellet guns in my basement that I bought about
15 or 20 years ago.

Do you live anywhere near a store that recycles cardboard? You're talking
about trapping the pellets for the lead content, right? What if you went
to the local grocery or liquor store and offered to recycle their used
cardboard at no cost to them, then just shoot into a stack of cardboard;
when it loads up, burn it in the fireplace, and retrieve the lead from
the ash bin. :-)

Just a thought.

Keep Your Powder Dry!
Rich