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A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on
their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. My heart is heavy this Christmas. Does anyone have any personal experiences with children and atvs and negative situations? Statistics of major injuries and death across the country tell me that I am not being hysterical about this. They are males, five and seven years old. It is an internal combustion four stroke engine, not sure of the horsepower, but usually kids atvs are limited to 70cc, and even 50cc engines have 5 hp. Oh, and I was reminded that it has a governor, but that just means it is mostly in low gear where there is more torque. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
I think that it is ****ing crazy to buy a gas powered anything for
kids this little. The electric powered barbie cars, at least, have low speed and low power. This has a far worse potential. i On 2010-12-25, Steve B wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. My heart is heavy this Christmas. Does anyone have any personal experiences with children and atvs and negative situations? Statistics of major injuries and death across the country tell me that I am not being hysterical about this. They are males, five and seven years old. It is an internal combustion four stroke engine, not sure of the horsepower, but usually kids atvs are limited to 70cc, and even 50cc engines have 5 hp. Oh, and I was reminded that it has a governor, but that just means it is mostly in low gear where there is more torque. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Steve B wrote:
I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. Geez, the real problem is the son in law, not the ATV. The newspapers are full of horror stories about this kind of stuff, I assume you can look these up online if you want to. Jon |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Steve B wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. My heart is heavy this Christmas. Does anyone have any personal experiences with children and atvs and negative situations? Statistics of major injuries and death across the country tell me that I am not being hysterical about this. They are males, five and seven years old. It is an internal combustion four stroke engine, not sure of the horsepower, but usually kids atvs are limited to 70cc, and even 50cc engines have 5 hp. Oh, and I was reminded that it has a governor, but that just means it is mostly in low gear where there is more torque. Steve A suggestion. On your next visit, do a little reverse engenering on the machines. A small sheet metal screw in the carb, a little battery acid in the crank case, a ball bearing or two in the gear box. Logic or stories of other kids tragedies will not be effective in convincing, but if the thing just doesn't seem to work right the problem might just go away. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
I hear you on that - have a good friend that almost lost a grandson on
an ATV - racing home with a friend - he turned and the steel post (drill pipe) knocked him over backwards. Lost spleen broken ribs, head, and pelvis. Just a real fast stop against a 4" pipe. He is for the most part ok now. It took a year of prayer to get him that far. Good luck. Martin On 12/25/2010 2:31 PM, Steve B wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. My heart is heavy this Christmas. Does anyone have any personal experiences with children and atvs and negative situations? Statistics of major injuries and death across the country tell me that I am not being hysterical about this. They are males, five and seven years old. It is an internal combustion four stroke engine, not sure of the horsepower, but usually kids atvs are limited to 70cc, and even 50cc engines have 5 hp. Oh, and I was reminded that it has a governor, but that just means it is mostly in low gear where there is more torque. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On 2010-12-26, RS at work wrote:
A suggestion. On your next visit, do a little reverse engenering on the machines. A small sheet metal screw in the carb, a little battery acid in the crank case, a ball bearing or two in the gear box. Logic or stories of other kids tragedies will not be effective in convincing, but if the thing just doesn't seem to work right the problem might just go away. Just add abrasive dust to the fuel. i |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
"Jon Elson" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. Geez, the real problem is the son in law, not the ATV. The newspapers are full of horror stories about this kind of stuff, I assume you can look these up online if you want to. Jon SIL is a police sergeant in a city with more than a million people. As I posted, I have been reading about this online since I got wind of this three months ago. Statistics are sad and voluminous. When something happens, it is usually bad. This evening, the five year old pulled out his newest Christmas present, a Nerf multiple fire dart gun. The first thing he did was shot his brother in the face. On the gun it says AGES: 8+. ATV manufacturers suggest 16 years of age on most safety placards on their machines. I managed an "Oh, really" when notified of the news, given in the same tone of voice as a parent who's son had just made the local high school varsity football squad. We'll see, and I wish them the best. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On 2010-12-26, Steve B wrote:
"Jon Elson" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. Geez, the real problem is the son in law, not the ATV. The newspapers are full of horror stories about this kind of stuff, I assume you can look these up online if you want to. Jon SIL is a police sergeant in a city with more than a million people. As I posted, I have been reading about this online since I got wind of this three months ago. Statistics are sad and voluminous. When something happens, it is usually bad. This evening, the five year old pulled out his newest Christmas present, a Nerf multiple fire dart gun. The first thing he did was shot his brother in the face. On the gun it says AGES: 8+. ATV manufacturers suggest 16 years of age on most safety placards on their machines. I managed an "Oh, really" when notified of the news, given in the same tone of voice as a parent who's son had just made the local high school varsity football squad. We'll see, and I wish them the best. I would be more upset about the ATV than the nerf gun. Nerfs do not have the energy to do any damage and the projectiles are very soft and rounded. My kids have a nerf gun, getting shot in the face with one is not that big of a deal. i |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 20:23:03 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote: "Jon Elson" wrote in message m... Steve B wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. Geez, the real problem is the son in law, not the ATV. The newspapers are full of horror stories about this kind of stuff, I assume you can look these up online if you want to. Jon SIL is a police sergeant in a city with more than a million people. As I posted, I have been reading about this online since I got wind of this three months ago. Statistics are sad and voluminous. When something happens, it is usually bad. This evening, the five year old pulled out his newest Christmas present, a Nerf multiple fire dart gun. The first thing he did was shot his brother in the face. On the gun it says AGES: 8+. ATV manufacturers suggest 16 years of age on most safety placards on their machines. I managed an "Oh, really" when notified of the news, given in the same tone of voice as a parent who's son had just made the local high school varsity football squad. We'll see, and I wish them the best. Steve Sounds like SIL is generating a new batch of young law breakers/socially irresponsible kids he is going to have to arrest in a few years. Sorry to hear about that. As a side note..I raised a couple kids with a house filled with actual firearms..and NEVER provided them with toy weapons. Ever. I did however supply them with their very own deadly weapons and the training to use them, along with the supervision to use them safely from a very young age. No issues noted, no criminal records or arrests. Gunner "I'm a lifelong devout atheist, and I'm very tolerant of other beliefs..." Pete C. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Dec 25, 3:31*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
Well this is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This goes way beyond "You'll shoot your eye out." If you can't talk the parents into taking these things away outright, you can limit their power. Many years ago (early 1970s) Mitsubishi was importing mopeds. They were making too much horsepower to be legal for unlicenced use. A friend came up with a very simple fix: He made an aluminum plug that fit tightly in the exhaust pipe, and drilled a 1/4" hole in it. Surprisingly, the engines ran fine, the mixture was fine and the power was limited just enough. You'll probably want a much smaller hole - zero sounds like a good size. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
rangerssuck wrote:
On Dec 25, 3:31*pm, "Steve B" wrote: Well this is just about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This goes way beyond "You'll shoot your eye out." If you can't talk the parents into taking these things away outright, you can limit their power. Many years ago (early 1970s) Mitsubishi was importing mopeds. They were making too much horsepower to be legal for unlicenced use. A friend came up with a very simple fix: He made an aluminum plug that fit tightly in the exhaust pipe, and drilled a 1/4" hole in it. Surprisingly, the engines ran fine, the mixture was fine and the power was limited just enough. You'll probably want a much smaller hole - zero sounds like a good size. I think he should let them run wild until they nominate themselves for the Darwin award. Cheers! Rich |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
TwoGuns wrote:
It sounds to me like maybe the S.I.L knows what he is doing with these kids. They may break a few bones and get skinned up but when they grow up they will have a huge advantage over the candy assed kids that had scaredy cat parents. A heavy dose of MYOB would be advised for this Grandparent. DL Methinks you don't understand the dangers inherent in riding a 4 wheeler . Further , you might have skipped over the part about the kids getting into places which put them in danger or where they were explicitly told NOT to go while on an electric model . This tells me that mom & dad aren't teaching/monitoring the boys as they should be . IMO Steve is rightfully concerned about the safety and well-being of his grandkids . I know in this situation I damn well would be !! Not that I overprotected my kids , but they were well supervised when they were doing things that could seriously injure them . -- Snag motorcycle enthusiast |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Steve B wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:31:59 -0800: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. One idea: To get the kids to wear helmets, see if you can find a pair of helmets with a built in radio intercom. To use the intercom, they have to wear the helmet. Another idea: Take the family to see a victim of a head injury. This may take some doing to find someone willing. A child of similar age would be best. It will have more effect on parents than kids. -- Dan H. northshore MA. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
My grandkids are 6 and 10 and have been riding ATV's for a couple of years
now. No issues lots of fun and lots of supervision. They both have BB guns and both go hunting with Dad. I worry more about them riding their bicycles out on the highway and getting hit than the guns or ATV's. Face it, if you are going to do something stupid you don't need a gasoline engine to do it with :) "Steve B" wrote in message ... I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. My heart is heavy this Christmas. Does anyone have any personal experiences with children and atvs and negative situations? Statistics of major injuries and death across the country tell me that I am not being hysterical about this. They are males, five and seven years old. It is an internal combustion four stroke engine, not sure of the horsepower, but usually kids atvs are limited to 70cc, and even 50cc engines have 5 hp. Oh, and I was reminded that it has a governor, but that just means it is mostly in low gear where there is more torque. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 22:13:53 -0600, Ignoramus4804
wrote: On 2010-12-26, RS at work wrote: A suggestion. On your next visit, do a little reverse engenering on the machines. A small sheet metal screw in the carb, a little battery acid in the crank case, a ball bearing or two in the gear box. Logic or stories of other kids tragedies will not be effective in convincing, but if the thing just doesn't seem to work right the problem might just go away. Just add abrasive dust to the fuel. C'mon, guys. Those are criminal acts, and if the father tries to get it covered under warranty, you can be sure to be prosecuted. Dumb idea. You spoke your mind, now live and let live. -- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On 2010-12-26, Glenn wrote:
My grandkids are 6 and 10 and have been riding ATV's for a couple of years now. No issues lots of fun and lots of supervision. They both have BB guns and both go hunting with Dad. I worry more about them riding their bicycles out on the highway and getting hit than the guns or ATV's. Face it, if you are going to do something stupid you don't need a gasoline engine to do it with :) We have BB guns, but only to be used under supervision. i "Steve B" wrote in message ... I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. My heart is heavy this Christmas. Does anyone have any personal experiences with children and atvs and negative situations? Statistics of major injuries and death across the country tell me that I am not being hysterical about this. They are males, five and seven years old. It is an internal combustion four stroke engine, not sure of the horsepower, but usually kids atvs are limited to 70cc, and even 50cc engines have 5 hp. Oh, and I was reminded that it has a governor, but that just means it is mostly in low gear where there is more torque. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Dec 25, 2:31*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. Steve Twelve years ago, I worked with a fellow who was in a similar situation. His grandkids had received new fourwheelers for their Christmas. They, three of them on two fourwheelers, ages from 6 to 8, were chasing each other on his front yard. They were so distracted in their play that BOTH drove right out into the street in front of a car. Killed all three. Parents were devastated but considered the driver of the car to have been in the wrong, because he killed their children. They shared none of the blame for giving their kids fourwheelers and allowing them to ride unsupervised next to a busy road. I sincerely hope that you never have to experience what my friend went through at the death of his grandkids. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
dan wrote:
Steve B wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:31:59 -0800: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. One idea: To get the kids to wear helmets, see if you can find a pair of helmets with a built in radio intercom. To use the intercom, they have to wear the helmet. Another idea: Take the family to see a victim of a head injury. This may take some doing to find someone willing. A child of similar age would be best. It will have more effect on parents than kids. I knew a young lady who decided that a helmet wasn't needed. She was my cousin. She was buried one week prior to her graduation from HS. The ATV she was driving flipped over and snapped her neck, killing her instantly. -- Steve W. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 22:13:53 -0600, Ignoramus4804 wrote: On 2010-12-26, RS at work wrote: A suggestion. On your next visit, do a little reverse engenering on the machines. A small sheet metal screw in the carb, a little battery acid in the crank case, a ball bearing or two in the gear box. Logic or stories of other kids tragedies will not be effective in convincing, but if the thing just doesn't seem to work right the problem might just go away. Just add abrasive dust to the fuel. C'mon, guys. Those are criminal acts, and if the father tries to get it covered under warranty, you can be sure to be prosecuted. Dumb idea. You spoke your mind, now live and let live. -- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911. It's also a criminal act to allow operation of an ATV by children in many states. Most have 16 as the youngest legal age. -- Steve W. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Gerry wrote:
On Dec 25, 2:31 pm, "Steve B" wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. Steve Twelve years ago, I worked with a fellow who was in a similar situation. His grandkids had received new fourwheelers for their Christmas. They, three of them on two fourwheelers, ages from 6 to 8, were chasing each other on his front yard. They were so distracted in their play that BOTH drove right out into the street in front of a car. Killed all three. Parents were devastated but considered the driver of the car to have been in the wrong, because he killed their children. They shared none of the blame for giving their kids fourwheelers and allowing them to ride unsupervised next to a busy road. I sincerely hope that you never have to experience what my friend went through at the death of his grandkids. That is Darwinism at work. It sounds cold but if the parents don't care enough to watch the kids then the lack of the kids may be better. -- Steve W. (\___/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Steve W. wrote:
Gerry wrote: On Dec 25, 2:31 pm, "Steve B" wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. Twelve years ago, I worked with a fellow who was in a similar situation. His grandkids had received new fourwheelers for their Christmas. They, three of them on two fourwheelers, ages from 6 to 8, were chasing each other on his front yard. They were so distracted in their play that BOTH drove right out into the street in front of a car. Killed all three. Parents were devastated but considered the driver of the car to have been in the wrong, because he killed their children. They shared none of the blame for giving their kids fourwheelers and allowing them to ride unsupervised next to a busy road. I sincerely hope that you never have to experience what my friend went through at the death of his grandkids. That is Darwinism at work. It sounds cold but if the parents don't care enough to watch the kids then the lack of the kids may be better. This brought to mind that scene from "Pet Sematary." But I agree, it's the Darwin effect; I was just too chicken to say so before. Thanks, Rich |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Ignoramus27085 wrote:
On 2010-12-26, Glenn wrote: My grandkids are 6 and 10 and have been riding ATV's for a couple of years now. No issues lots of fun and lots of supervision. They both have BB guns and both go hunting with Dad. I worry more about them riding their bicycles out on the highway and getting hit than the guns or ATV's. Face it, if you are going to do something stupid you don't need a gasoline engine to do it with :) We have BB guns, but only to be used under supervision. I don't know if my siblings and I are charmed or something, but for some reason, the idea of shooting people in they eye never even occurred to us. Thanks, Rich |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Steve W. wrote:
dan wrote: Steve B wrote in I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. One idea: To get the kids to wear helmets, see if you can find a pair of helmets with a built in radio intercom. To use the intercom, they have to wear the helmet. Another idea: Take the family to see a victim of a head injury. This may take some doing to find someone willing. A child of similar age would be best. It will have more effect on parents than kids. I knew a young lady who decided that a helmet wasn't needed. She was my cousin. She was buried one week prior to her graduation from HS. The ATV she was driving flipped over and snapped her neck, killing her instantly. If it was her neck that was snapped, how would a helmet have mitigated that? Wouldn't it provide even more leverage for ol' debbil Gravity to do his dastardly work? Thanks, Rich |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Dec 26, 8:51*am, "Snag" wrote:
TwoGuns wrote: It sounds to me like maybe the S.I.L knows what he is doing with these kids. They may break a few bones and get skinned up but when they grow up they will have a huge advantage over the candy assed kids that had scaredy cat parents. A heavy dose of MYOB would be advised for this Grandparent. DL * Methinks you don't understand the dangers inherent in riding a 4 wheeler . Further , you might have skipped over the part about the kids getting into places which put them in danger or where they were explicitly told NOT to go while on an electric model . This tells me that mom & dad aren't teaching/monitoring the boys as they should be . *IMO Steve is rightfully concerned about the safety and well-being of his grandkids . I know in this situation I damn well would be !! * Not that I overprotected my kids , but they were well supervised when they were doing things that could seriously injure them . -- Snag motorcycle enthusiast I have been riding motorcycles since I was ten Snag (now 64) and I've spent many hours on three wheelers, four wheelers, dune buggies and many other vehicles. I have suffered a few bruises and some road rash so I know what CAN happen when you do something stupid. The OP said the Grandkids did things they were told not to. I gathered they did things that their Granddad told them not to. If they did something their Dad had approved Granddad is interfering IMHO and he needs to butt out. DL |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
TwoGuns wrote:
On Dec 26, 8:51 am, "Snag" wrote: TwoGuns wrote: It sounds to me like maybe the S.I.L knows what he is doing with these kids. They may break a few bones and get skinned up but when they grow up they will have a huge advantage over the candy assed kids that had scaredy cat parents. A heavy dose of MYOB would be advised for this Grandparent. DL Methinks you don't understand the dangers inherent in riding a 4 wheeler . Further , you might have skipped over the part about the kids getting into places which put them in danger or where they were explicitly told NOT to go while on an electric model . This tells me that mom & dad aren't teaching/monitoring the boys as they should be . IMO Steve is rightfully concerned about the safety and well-being of his grandkids . I know in this situation I damn well would be !! Not that I overprotected my kids , but they were well supervised when they were doing things that could seriously injure them . -- Snag motorcycle enthusiast I have been riding motorcycles since I was ten Snag (now 64) and I've spent many hours on three wheelers, four wheelers, dune buggies and many other vehicles. I have suffered a few bruises and some road rash so I know what CAN happen when you do something stupid. The OP said the Grandkids did things they were told not to. I gathered they did things that their Granddad told them not to. If they did something their Dad had approved Granddad is interfering IMHO and he needs to butt out. DL Hmm , I had the impression they did things Mom & Dad said not to ... well , neither of us is involved , and we've both stated our positions . Bottom line is that we ain't in control of this situation , and our opinions are moot . That said , I've been ridin' since I was 13 , but I'm not quite as old as you . Also had my share of bumps and broken bones , and it's made me a more careful rider . Especially this time of year , the cagers don't really expect to see bikes , which makes me triply cautious - though lately we've been seeing a lot more bikes out . We think this is probably due to fuel costs and under/unemployment . -- Snag Learning keeps you young ! |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On 2010-12-26, Steve W. wrote:
dan wrote: Steve B wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:31:59 -0800: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. One idea: To get the kids to wear helmets, see if you can find a pair of helmets with a built in radio intercom. To use the intercom, they have to wear the helmet. Another idea: Take the family to see a victim of a head injury. This may take some doing to find someone willing. A child of similar age would be best. It will have more effect on parents than kids. I knew a young lady who decided that a helmet wasn't needed. She was my cousin. She was buried one week prior to her graduation from HS. The ATV she was driving flipped over and snapped her neck, killing her instantly. And how would a helmet help? Otherwise I would say, sad story. Some accidents are not as deadly, such as this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStc1BjaRAY i |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
"Steve B" wrote:
I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. I feel for you Steve. A few years ago, kid at work's younger brother died on a atv, too much throttle, too little experience. Life grades hard when an internal combustion engine is involved. About the only thing I can suggest is you load up your atv and teach these kids some skills and acquaint them of the dangers. I hope you are not prescient in reguards to this. Wes My heart is heavy this Christmas. -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 18:27:48 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote: dan wrote: Steve B wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:31:59 -0800: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. One idea: To get the kids to wear helmets, see if you can find a pair of helmets with a built in radio intercom. To use the intercom, they have to wear the helmet. Another idea: Take the family to see a victim of a head injury. This may take some doing to find someone willing. A child of similar age would be best. It will have more effect on parents than kids. I knew a young lady who decided that a helmet wasn't needed. She was my cousin. She was buried one week prior to her graduation from HS. The ATV she was driving flipped over and snapped her neck, killing her instantly. So the Helmet wouldnt have saved her in the slightest. But your point is well taken despite this. I wont even get on a skate board without a helmet, let alone a bicycle, motorcycle etc etc. Ive far too many aqquaintences that resemble vegitables in mental outlook because they didnt bother with head protection..one time too many. Gunner "I'm a lifelong devout atheist, and I'm very tolerant of other beliefs..." Pete C. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
"TwoGuns" wrote in message ... On Dec 26, 8:51 am, "Snag" wrote: TwoGuns wrote: It sounds to me like maybe the S.I.L knows what he is doing with these kids. They may break a few bones and get skinned up but when they grow up they will have a huge advantage over the candy assed kids that had scaredy cat parents. A heavy dose of MYOB would be advised for this Grandparent. DL Methinks you don't understand the dangers inherent in riding a 4 wheeler . Further , you might have skipped over the part about the kids getting into places which put them in danger or where they were explicitly told NOT to go while on an electric model . This tells me that mom & dad aren't teaching/monitoring the boys as they should be . IMO Steve is rightfully concerned about the safety and well-being of his grandkids . I know in this situation I damn well would be !! Not that I overprotected my kids , but they were well supervised when they were doing things that could seriously injure them . -- Snag motorcycle enthusiast I have been riding motorcycles since I was ten Snag (now 64) and I've spent many hours on three wheelers, four wheelers, dune buggies and many other vehicles. I have suffered a few bruises and some road rash so I know what CAN happen when you do something stupid. The OP said the Grandkids did things they were told not to. I gathered they did things that their Granddad told them not to. If they did something their Dad had approved Granddad is interfering IMHO and he needs to butt out. DL Is English your second language? You have quoted me incorrectly several times about several things I said. The boys commonly do not do as instructed when left in our care and custody for up to two weeks at a time. They don't mind their parents, either. Before running on any more at the mouth, here's some real facts: http://www.atvsafetynet.org/parents.php?page=map Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
"Steve W." wrote in message ... Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 22:13:53 -0600, Ignoramus4804 wrote: On 2010-12-26, RS at work wrote: A suggestion. On your next visit, do a little reverse engenering on the machines. A small sheet metal screw in the carb, a little battery acid in the crank case, a ball bearing or two in the gear box. Logic or stories of other kids tragedies will not be effective in convincing, but if the thing just doesn't seem to work right the problem might just go away. Just add abrasive dust to the fuel. C'mon, guys. Those are criminal acts, and if the father tries to get it covered under warranty, you can be sure to be prosecuted. Dumb idea. You spoke your mind, now live and let live. -- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911. It's also a criminal act to allow operation of an ATV by children in many states. Most have 16 as the youngest legal age. -- Steve W. So, then do you REALLY think that 5 and 7 is too young? http://www.atvsafetynet.org/parents.php?page=map Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
"dan" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:31:59 -0800: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. One idea: To get the kids to wear helmets, see if you can find a pair of helmets with a built in radio intercom. To use the intercom, they have to wear the helmet. Another idea: Take the family to see a victim of a head injury. This may take some doing to find someone willing. A child of similar age would be best. It will have more effect on parents than kids. -- Dan H. northshore MA. Both parents are employed in public safety. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
"Gerry" wrote in message ... On Dec 25, 2:31 pm, "Steve B" wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. Steve Twelve years ago, I worked with a fellow who was in a similar situation. His grandkids had received new fourwheelers for their Christmas. They, three of them on two fourwheelers, ages from 6 to 8, were chasing each other on his front yard. They were so distracted in their play that BOTH drove right out into the street in front of a car. Killed all three. Parents were devastated but considered the driver of the car to have been in the wrong, because he killed their children. They shared none of the blame for giving their kids fourwheelers and allowing them to ride unsupervised next to a busy road. I sincerely hope that you never have to experience what my friend went through at the death of his grandkids. reply: I'm holding my breath. Now I must tell them that I will not go on any ride with them, as it is too stressful for me, and eventually, I think there may be a time when I have to speak my mind. I already said I didn't think they were old enough, and would not follow instructions when on the slow electric one, but Dad mostly had other ideas. Like I said, I wish them well, and I hope I am wrong. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
"Wes" wrote in message ... "Steve B" wrote: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. I broke my back two years ago on an ATV, and I'm an adult. I was doing something stupid, and got caught. But we ride in some very remote rough areas. We have since toned down our riding to just putt putt old fart stuff. These two had a little electric John Deere atv that was even rated for children older than they were when they got it, four and two IIRC. They, and their Mom and Grandma, insisted that it was okay for both to ride at the same time, so one of the motors burned out recently, and that was all she wrote. In the meantime, they would not follow instructions on where or where not to ride, wearing helmets, or using the safety strap for the second rider. They were constantly getting stuck in places they were told not to ride. I feel for you Steve. A few years ago, kid at work's younger brother died on a atv, too much throttle, too little experience. Life grades hard when an internal combustion engine is involved. About the only thing I can suggest is you load up your atv and teach these kids some skills and acquaint them of the dangers. I hope you are not prescient in reguards to this. Wes No, I do not want them riding at all at this age. So far they have shown that they will not follow instructions, so I will take that as an indicator on how their future riding instruction will be received. If anything happens, I have no guilt or responsibility in it. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
My heart is heavy this Christmas. Does anyone have any personal experiences with children and atvs and negative situations? Statistics of major injuries and death across the country tell me that I am not being hysterical about this. They are males, five and seven years old. Steve Steve You don't mention where the children and the neglectful parents are but a call to the local CPS might get their attention. CPS as in Child Protective Services. Look under the Juvenille court listings if there is one. Bob AZ |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
I would be more upset about the ATV than the nerf gun. Nerfs do not have the energy to do any damage and the projectiles are very soft and rounded. My kids have a nerf gun, getting shot in the face with one is not that big of a deal. i Check out the Nerf Hyperfire. It comes with safety glasses FOR THE SHOOTER. Nine shot. Plastic coated darts, about as round as a dime, definitely could "shoot yer eye out", particularly when aimed intentionally at someone's face WHO DOESN'T GET A PAIR OF GLASSES. Steve |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Dec 26, 6:31*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. I am very troubled by this, having expressed my feelings on this heretofore, and knowing that the strong willed son-in-law would do whatever the **** he wanted, thank you very much for your input months ago. Steve Steve mate, sorry. I reckon most parents/grandparents could relate similar tales of stupidity. Nothing you can do about it, resist the temptation to say "I told ya so..." And they will, most of them anyway, grow up to be normal people. (Like us here G) Andrew VK3BFA. PS - my kids did/do more stupid things than YOUR kids do....nah nah nah nah..... |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 18:30:29 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 22:13:53 -0600, Ignoramus4804 wrote: On 2010-12-26, RS at work wrote: A suggestion. On your next visit, do a little reverse engenering on the machines. A small sheet metal screw in the carb, a little battery acid in the crank case, a ball bearing or two in the gear box. Logic or stories of other kids tragedies will not be effective in convincing, but if the thing just doesn't seem to work right the problem might just go away. Just add abrasive dust to the fuel. C'mon, guys. Those are criminal acts, and if the father tries to get it covered under warranty, you can be sure to be prosecuted. Dumb idea. You spoke your mind, now live and let live. -- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911. It's also a criminal act to allow operation of an ATV by children in many states. Most have 16 as the youngest legal age. from http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0216.htm Google #1 spot: "The law sets a minimum age for operating an ATV on state-owned land, but does not set a minimum age for operating an ATV other places. On state land, no one under 12 may operate an ATV and someone aged 12 to 16 may operate an ATV only if they have obtained an operation certificate and are supervised by someone older than 18. " Steve, you could call a Sheriff or Ranger when they go out camping, or whenever they ride. A couple fines or days in jail might help correct his thinking. But be prepared to hear that it happens so often, the DA won't prosecute and the cops are told NOT to arrest parents for it, and if you push this too far, be prepared to lose that arm of the family. They may still shun you if they do lose a child because you warned them and they didn't listen. Condolences on your predicament. Or accept the fact that underage use of ATVs (they come in children's sizes now, too) is rampant and you may not be able to change it, even in your own family line. -- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
By the way guys, I am sure I will **** off a lot of people with my
opinion, but the same applies to use of motorcycles by people of all ages. They are not safe and cannot be made safe by following any "safe driving" procedures. Do I think that adults have a right to ride motorcycles? Yes. Do I think that it is a smart thing to do? No. i |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 22:05:40 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote: "dan" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote in rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:31:59 -0800: I was just sent a cell phone picture of my two grandsons, five and seven, on their new Christmas present, an ATV. One idea: To get the kids to wear helmets, see if you can find a pair of helmets with a built in radio intercom. To use the intercom, they have to wear the helmet. Another idea: Take the family to see a victim of a head injury. This may take some doing to find someone willing. A child of similar age would be best. It will have more effect on parents than kids. -- Dan H. northshore MA. Both parents are employed in public safety. And the simple fact that the first thing the kid did was point the nerf gun at his brother and shoot him in the face brings us to the fact that being employed in public safety does not ensure proper childcare nor supervision nor punishment for unsafe acts. Sad. The fact that Toyota just lost a $10M lawsuit to a California Highway Patrolman who couldn't figure out how to switch off the key (or shift into neutral) in his Lexus reinforces this point. Anyone with HALF a mind could have noticed that a floor mat had become stuck under the accelerator pedal and removed it, or had it moved by the passenger. I was taught never to aim at a face, even with a squirtgun or hose as it can do eye damage. And no gun or sliingshot or sling would ever be pointed at another human being or animal, or I would get switched. It is clear that your SIL has done none of this at this point, so I'm pretty damned sure you ain't gonna win this one, Steve. Murphy has been working overtime on setting it up. -- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911. |
A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related
Ignoramus7943 wrote:
By the way guys, I am sure I will **** off a lot of people with my opinion, ... Don't worry about it Ig, my opinions generally **** off _everybody_! ;-) Happy New Year! Rich |
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