My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.

Karl

In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote:

My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

Not a problem. Personally I'd plan to get a new one ASAP, but if you
need to cut today, getting rid if it for today will be one very minor
addition to the usual array of risks that are associated with any use of
a torch. It provides some degree of protection from a fairly rare
condition. So rare, I've never (to my knowledge) had it. Still, I'd
rather have than not - I've also never used an airbag in a car, but I'd
rather have one than not.

I actually prefer to have it at the torch end, since the whole point of
the thing is to prevent the (rare) propagation of an inside-the-torch
flame, and I see no reason to give such a thing the whole hose to play
with, nor do I see much opportunity for it to start in the hose, unless
the hose is in such terrible shape that it needs to be replaced anyway.
Practically speaking, I've never known mine to be doing anything but
sitting there, not that I'm anything more than a long-term hobby weldor.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:30:16 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.


Karl

How do you quantify a hazard? The likelihood of anything bad
happening is slight, but the consequences can be dire. Photos
available at any welding store.

I ran small tanks (B acet, R oxy) with no arrestors for some time,
never had a problem.

A concrete wall between you and the tanks would be a good idea.

When shutting down the torch, do it slowly. Shut off the oxy first so
you don't get a "pop".

Karl,
The arrester protects the regulator not you. You don't need it at all, but a torch pop could trash the regulator.
Steve

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message news
My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.

Karl

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:22:15 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Karl,
The arrester protects the regulator not you. You don't need it at all, but a torch pop could trash the regulator.
Steve

Good to know. FWIW, I just completed the job, no problem.

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
news
My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.

Karl

It's like anything else, Karl. 99.999% of the time, nothing happens. When
it does, we read about it in the paper. They are not that expensive, and I
have been known to have two, one on the reg, one on the torch, just for
peace of mind. Do your cut being mindful most of: test connections with
Windex, watch for where the slag drops, and make sure all connections are
tight.

I didn't know they went out.

It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's usually ugly.

Steve

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:22:15 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Karl,
The arrester protects the regulator not you. You don't need it at all, but
a torch pop could trash the regulator.
Steve

Good to know. FWIW, I just completed the job, no problem.

Karl

Now go get a new one and sleep better.

Steve

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:01:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

When shutting down the torch, do it slowly. Shut off the oxy first so
you don't get a "pop".

Hmm. There must be different philosophies on that one. When I shut
off the torch, I turn off the Acetylene first and the Oxy blows the
flame away from the torch tip. No pop.

For a flashback, I recall that you're supposed to turn off the oxygen
first so the acetylene inside the torch body doesn't have any oxygen
to keep the flame inside going. Is that what you meant, or do you
routinely shut Oxy off first on your torches?

RWL

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:00:34 -0400, Ecnerwal
wrote:

In article ,
Karl Townsend wrote:

My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

Not a problem. Personally I'd plan to get a new one ASAP, but if you
need to cut today, getting rid if it for today will be one very minor
addition to the usual array of risks that are associated with any use of
a torch. It provides some degree of protection from a fairly rare
condition. So rare, I've never (to my knowledge) had it. Still, I'd
rather have than not - I've also never used an airbag in a car, but I'd
rather have one than not.

I actually prefer to have it at the torch end, since the whole point of
the thing is to prevent the (rare) propagation of an inside-the-torch
flame, and I see no reason to give such a thing the whole hose to play
with, nor do I see much opportunity for it to start in the hose, unless
the hose is in such terrible shape that it needs to be replaced anyway.
Practically speaking, I've never known mine to be doing anything but
sitting there, not that I'm anything more than a long-term hobby weldor.


I put arresters on both the tank..and the torch end of the hose.

I had a dozen sets...shrug

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:19:36 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:


On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:01:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

When shutting down the torch, do it slowly. Shut off the oxy first so
you don't get a "pop".

Hmm. There must be different philosophies on that one. When I shut
off the torch, I turn off the Acetylene first and the Oxy blows the
flame away from the torch tip. No pop.

For a flashback, I recall that you're supposed to turn off the oxygen
first so the acetylene inside the torch body doesn't have any oxygen
to keep the flame inside going. Is that what you meant, or do you
routinely shut Oxy off first on your torches?

RWL

I shut off the oxy first so it doesn't pop.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:19:36 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:


On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:01:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

When shutting down the torch, do it slowly. Shut off the oxy first so
you don't get a "pop".

Hmm. There must be different philosophies on that one. When I shut
off the torch, I turn off the Acetylene first and the Oxy blows the
flame away from the torch tip. No pop.

In 8th grade metal shop, I was taught to shut off the fuel first
(acet), then the oxidizer.


For a flashback, I recall that you're supposed to turn off the oxygen
first so the acetylene inside the torch body doesn't have any oxygen
to keep the flame inside going. Is that what you meant, or do you
routinely shut Oxy off first on your torches?

I think that was covered, but the thought which prevailed was that the
amount of oxy in a torch tip didn't amount to much after it had
diluted the acet and the flame was already blown out externally.

--
Some people hear voices. Some see invisible people.
Others have no imagination whatsoever.

On 09/19/2010 09:30 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

Just got the paper this morning -- Willamette Valley vintners are
working hard to save the grape harvest. If we haven't had the rainiest
summer on record it's certainly come close. We've had cool rainy
weather alternating with the occasional sunny spell since spring (except
for one hot spell in June that fooled us into buying some tomato plants
and putting them in).

They're expecting the harvest to be a month late. This week, instead of
picking grapes they're picking leaves and winnowing the less-mature
bunches from the vines. And I'll bet that even the atheists among them
are praying a bit.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

The sky _is_ going to fall, Karl. Is that dire enough?

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.

Hope you get 'er done.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:30:16 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

BUT:

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.

Uh-huh. No time to do proper maintenance that may prevent
a serious explosion, but time for a ball game, is that
accurate?

Thanks,
Rich

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 07:29:23 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 22:19:36 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:


On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:01:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

When shutting down the torch, do it slowly. Shut off the oxy first so
you don't get a "pop".

Hmm. There must be different philosophies on that one. When I shut
off the torch, I turn off the Acetylene first and the Oxy blows the
flame away from the torch tip. No pop.

In 8th grade metal shop, I was taught to shut off the fuel first
(acet), then the oxidizer.


For a flashback, I recall that you're supposed to turn off the oxygen
first so the acetylene inside the torch body doesn't have any oxygen
to keep the flame inside going. Is that what you meant, or do you
routinely shut Oxy off first on your torches?

I think that was covered, but the thought which prevailed was that the
amount of oxy in a torch tip didn't amount to much after it had
diluted the acet and the flame was already blown out externally.

My approach is governed more by experience than by reason. Somewhere
back in antiquity I noted that the torch doesn't pop if I turn off the
oxy first, so that's how I've been doing it for 35 years or so.

problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

The sky _is_ going to fall, Karl. Is that dire enough?


Well, not quite as bad as Obama getting re-elected.

Karl

Uh-huh. No time to do proper maintenance that may prevent
a serious explosion, but time for a ball game, is that
accurate?

Yep, no way am I giving up my Sunday P.M. ball game time.

Karl

On 09/20/2010 10:37 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Uh-huh. No time to do proper maintenance that may prevent
a serious explosion, but time for a ball game, is that
accurate?

Yep, no way am I giving up my Sunday P.M. ball game time.

Gotta stay sane...

Besides -- where are you going to find a welding shop open on Sunday?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Don Foreman" wrote

My approach is governed more by experience than by reason. Somewhere
back in antiquity I noted that the torch doesn't pop if I turn off the
oxy first, so that's how I've been doing it for 35 years or so.

My experiences a when you turn off the O2 first, you have black boogers
floating around. If you turn off the acet first, you have no fuel for the
fire. Then you experience your first no acet combustion, fueled only by
oxygen, which is both exciting and frightening, as in, "Holy ****, now what
do I do?"

Me, I turn off the fuel first, thinking that the most important part of the
triangle of fire is fuel. Even if you have oxygen and heat, it is actually
possible to continue combustion, but if you remove the fuel, it goes out.

But then, there's oxygen.

It's all relative, but the conversation was about burnback, hose fires, and
flame arrestors.

In a perfect world, we might all turn off the oxygen partially, the acet
partially, then kill it by turning off either. But in the production world,
it all fades into fatigue, and it is hard to remember which one is actually
turned off first.

Steve

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 09/19/2010 09:30 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:
My torch screwed up. No acetylene flow. I traced it to a little unit
right at the regulator. Its an anchor brand flash arrestor and check
valve. The line will thread right back up without it in the system.
I'm pretty sure my old torch didn't have one of these. I need to cut
something today pretty bad, there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

Just got the paper this morning -- Willamette Valley vintners are working
hard to save the grape harvest. If we haven't had the rainiest summer on
record it's certainly come close. We've had cool rainy weather
alternating with the occasional sunny spell since spring (except for one
hot spell in June that fooled us into buying some tomato plants and
putting them in).

They're expecting the harvest to be a month late. This week, instead of
picking grapes they're picking leaves and winnowing the less-mature
bunches from the vines. And I'll bet that even the atheists among them
are praying a bit.

I'll set the tanks way back and outside. is there much hazard of a
problem running without this. Please if you don't know, don't give me
all the dire warning bull****. I need to hear from an expert.

The sky _is_ going to fall, Karl. Is that dire enough?

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.

Hope you get 'er done.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Fergeddabout the hose fire and subsequent acetylene conflagration, SAVE THE
WINE! One must have their priorities in place.

Steve

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:01:28 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

When shutting down the torch, do it slowly. Shut off the oxy first so
you don't get a "pop".

==============

Hmm. There must be different philosophies on that one. When I shut
off the torch, I turn off the Acetylene first and the Oxy blows the
flame away from the torch tip. No pop.
RWL

=============

In 8th grade metal shop, I was taught to shut off the fuel first
(acet), then the oxidizer.

=======

My approach is governed more by experience than by reason. Somewhere
back in antiquity I noted that the torch doesn't pop if I turn off the
oxy first, so that's how I've been doing it for 35 years or so.

======

The only acetylene powered torch that pops for me when shut off is my
Prestolite plumbing torch (acetylene & air). Shutting the fuel off
first on my OA rig doesn't cause it to pop, and I don't get all the
soot floating in the air that shutting off the O2 first yields when
the long acetylene flame is burning in room air..

RWL

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:30:16 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

there's no time for maintenance during the
work week during apple harvest.

BUT:

I'll plan to do this right after the ball game.

Uh-huh. No time to do proper maintenance that may prevent
a serious explosion, but time for a ball game, is that
accurate?

Thanks,
Rich


Oxy torches have been around since Moses played for the Edmonton Eskimos.
Flashback arrestors have only appeared in the last 10 years. I've never
heard of an explosion as a result of flashback.

I think you can take the time to enjoy the game. The safety industry would
have you believe that the instant you fire the torch up you will die. Always
looking out for yor skin. ( and a buck or two)

"Grumpy" wrote

Flashback arrestors have only appeared in the last 10 years.

Say whut?