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Sieg X1 CNC'd w/VisualMill and Mach 3 - $2000 (Murrieta)
Date: 2010-08-16, 2:14PM PDT
Reply to: [Errors when replying to
ads?]

I've had this for about six months and just don't have time for projects
anymore. I've managed to get it wired up and functioning properly. I'm
sad to call it quits because it has so much potential but I just don't
have time anymore. Everything is in great condition and it cost me
around $2,600 for everything. $2,000 is a fair price considering all the
time I spent wiring and troubleshooting.

I have cutting tools and collets available as well as a fourth axis,
milling vice, center holder, and probably some other stuff that I have
forgotten about. It's almost all brand new as I never got around to
cutting anything.

The Mill probably needs to be trammed but other than that it's good to
go. Come check it out. I can take more pics if you would like. Yes I
know I have a messy table.

INCLUDES:
Sieg X1 (A.K.A. Harbot Freight Micro Mill)
CNC Fusion Mount Kit
Probotix ProboStep 3 axis kit. (Able to add 4th axis.)
IMB Computer with Windows XP Pro
VisuallMill Software
Mach 3 CNC Controller Software
Alibre Design Professional Software
15 in. LCD Monitor.
Keyboard and Mouse.

Cutting tools, collets, and vice available for additional cost.





--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?


--
We're all here because we're not all there.

On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



Typical "failed retard project".

A bad idea from the start (buying a new substandard mill and all new
components), further exacerbated by lack of ability and disorganization.

Now this guy wants a fortune for a pile of unfinished (but already
used) parts.

i

"Ignoramus12820" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



(buying a new substandard mill

What other alternatives are there in a small mill?

What alternatives are there that do not cost a lot more?

I have a Taig because I was told it's a decent quality mill for its size and
price. To be quite frank I disagree. It requires constant adjustment, and
the Z axis is horrible in my opinion. When I talked to Taig about the clamp
on ways they told me its should be within a hundredth along its length. You
have got to be kidding me. That is 0.01" No wonder it binds up sometimes.
Yeah I know its made right here, and that was another draw, but if I had
bought a cheap Chinese mill instead of cheap American mill I would atleast
have expected to spend a lot of time tweaking and adjusting to get decent
work out of it. The Sieg mills are atleast heavier and more robust,
although I have really only looked at the SX4 which is a little larger
machine than the SX1.

Don't say Grizzly. A lot of their machines are identical to the Sieg
machines and made in the same factory. Just have a different label. Same
with the HF machines and several other companies. Even Jet and Enco
machines (for a large step up in price) can be found under other labels with
different color paint.

Whether you have any respect for that poster is not the question to me, but
rather what other alternatives are there in small machines? Sherline? They
are smaller than the Taig mills.

Not everybody can afford to chunk out 6 to 40 grand for a brand new big name
machine, and not everybody has the ability to spend months retrofitting a
used clapped out machine or the time. Guys like Gunner do not count. I am
sure he could refit a clapped out machine to like new in a day, but that is
what he does for a living. The rest of us have to learn every single thing
one issue at a time and hope guys like him will be kind enough to guide us
in the right direction., Nor do most of us have the ability to look at a
used machine and know if it can be fixed up for a reasonable amount of time
or money. It's a lot safer to buy a small new mill to do small projects.
It may not be great, but it will run.

I asked recently on the ZONE what a good slightly larger step up machine
would be from my Taig. Something not too much more money and I specifically
said, not the Sieg machines because their working envelope was not much
bigger if at all. I did not get one single response. So I'll ask here.

What is a decent quality small step up from my Taig.

On 2010-08-19, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus12820" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



(buying a new substandard mill

What other alternatives are there in a small mill?

What alternatives are there that do not cost a lot more?

I have a Taig because I was told it's a decent quality mill for its size and
price. To be quite frank I disagree. It requires constant adjustment, and
the Z axis is horrible in my opinion. When I talked to Taig about the clamp
on ways they told me its should be within a hundredth along its length. You
have got to be kidding me. That is 0.01" No wonder it binds up sometimes.
Yeah I know its made right here, and that was another draw, but if I had
bought a cheap Chinese mill instead of cheap American mill I would atleast
have expected to spend a lot of time tweaking and adjusting to get decent
work out of it. The Sieg mills are atleast heavier and more robust,
although I have really only looked at the SX4 which is a little larger
machine than the SX1.

Don't say Grizzly. A lot of their machines are identical to the Sieg
machines and made in the same factory. Just have a different label. Same
with the HF machines and several other companies. Even Jet and Enco
machines (for a large step up in price) can be found under other labels with
different color paint.

Whether you have any respect for that poster is not the question to me, but
rather what other alternatives are there in small machines? Sherline? They
are smaller than the Taig mills.

Not everybody can afford to chunk out 6 to 40 grand for a brand new big name
machine, and not everybody has the ability to spend months retrofitting a
used clapped out machine or the time. Guys like Gunner do not count. I am
sure he could refit a clapped out machine to like new in a day, but that is
what he does for a living. The rest of us have to learn every single thing
one issue at a time and hope guys like him will be kind enough to guide us
in the right direction., Nor do most of us have the ability to look at a
used machine and know if it can be fixed up for a reasonable amount of time
or money. It's a lot safer to buy a small new mill to do small projects.
It may not be great, but it will run.

I asked recently on the ZONE what a good slightly larger step up machine
would be from my Taig. Something not too much more money and I specifically
said, not the Sieg machines because their working envelope was not much
bigger if at all. I did not get one single response. So I'll ask here.

What is a decent quality small step up from my Taig.




Bob, I am not a big expert on this stuff, but Tormach seems to be the
next step up in quality above that Taig and similar machines.

Yes, it costs a lot more, but that's what you get if you want to buy
new quality goods (as opposed to spending months retrofitting using
parts from ebay).

I saw Mike Henry's Tormach and I was impressed with it.

i

"Ignoramus12820" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-19, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus12820" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



(buying a new substandard mill

What other alternatives are there in a small mill?

What alternatives are there that do not cost a lot more?

I have a Taig because I was told it's a decent quality mill for its size
and
price. To be quite frank I disagree. It requires constant adjustment,
and
the Z axis is horrible in my opinion. When I talked to Taig about the
clamp
on ways they told me its should be within a hundredth along its length.
You
have got to be kidding me. That is 0.01" No wonder it binds up
sometimes.
Yeah I know its made right here, and that was another draw, but if I had
bought a cheap Chinese mill instead of cheap American mill I would
atleast
have expected to spend a lot of time tweaking and adjusting to get decent
work out of it. The Sieg mills are atleast heavier and more robust,
although I have really only looked at the SX4 which is a little larger
machine than the SX1.

Don't say Grizzly. A lot of their machines are identical to the Sieg
machines and made in the same factory. Just have a different label.
Same
with the HF machines and several other companies. Even Jet and Enco
machines (for a large step up in price) can be found under other labels
with
different color paint.

Whether you have any respect for that poster is not the question to me,
but
rather what other alternatives are there in small machines? Sherline?
They
are smaller than the Taig mills.

Not everybody can afford to chunk out 6 to 40 grand for a brand new big
name
machine, and not everybody has the ability to spend months retrofitting a
used clapped out machine or the time. Guys like Gunner do not count. I
am
sure he could refit a clapped out machine to like new in a day, but that
is
what he does for a living. The rest of us have to learn every single
thing
one issue at a time and hope guys like him will be kind enough to guide
us
in the right direction., Nor do most of us have the ability to look at a
used machine and know if it can be fixed up for a reasonable amount of
time
or money. It's a lot safer to buy a small new mill to do small projects.
It may not be great, but it will run.

I asked recently on the ZONE what a good slightly larger step up machine
would be from my Taig. Something not too much more money and I
specifically
said, not the Sieg machines because their working envelope was not much
bigger if at all. I did not get one single response. So I'll ask here.

What is a decent quality small step up from my Taig.




Bob, I am not a big expert on this stuff, but Tormach seems to be the
next step up in quality above that Taig and similar machines.

Yes, it costs a lot more, but that's what you get if you want to buy
new quality goods (as opposed to spending months retrofitting using
parts from ebay).

I saw Mike Henry's Tormach and I was impressed with it.

I'll have to look again. I thought Tormach made gantry router machines.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:52:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Ignoramus12820" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



(buying a new substandard mill

What other alternatives are there in a small mill?

What alternatives are there that do not cost a lot more?

I have a Taig because I was told it's a decent quality mill for its size and
price. To be quite frank I disagree. It requires constant adjustment, and
the Z axis is horrible in my opinion. When I talked to Taig about the clamp
on ways they told me its should be within a hundredth along its length. You
have got to be kidding me. That is 0.01" No wonder it binds up sometimes.
Yeah I know its made right here, and that was another draw, but if I had
bought a cheap Chinese mill instead of cheap American mill I would atleast
have expected to spend a lot of time tweaking and adjusting to get decent
work out of it. The Sieg mills are atleast heavier and more robust,
although I have really only looked at the SX4 which is a little larger
machine than the SX1.

Don't say Grizzly. A lot of their machines are identical to the Sieg
machines and made in the same factory. Just have a different label. Same
with the HF machines and several other companies. Even Jet and Enco
machines (for a large step up in price) can be found under other labels with
different color paint.

Whether you have any respect for that poster is not the question to me, but
rather what other alternatives are there in small machines? Sherline? They
are smaller than the Taig mills.

Not everybody can afford to chunk out 6 to 40 grand for a brand new big name
machine, and not everybody has the ability to spend months retrofitting a
used clapped out machine or the time. Guys like Gunner do not count. I am
sure he could refit a clapped out machine to like new in a day, but that is
what he does for a living. The rest of us have to learn every single thing
one issue at a time and hope guys like him will be kind enough to guide us
in the right direction., Nor do most of us have the ability to look at a
used machine and know if it can be fixed up for a reasonable amount of time
or money. It's a lot safer to buy a small new mill to do small projects.
It may not be great, but it will run.

I asked recently on the ZONE what a good slightly larger step up machine
would be from my Taig. Something not too much more money and I specifically
said, not the Sieg machines because their working envelope was not much
bigger if at all. I did not get one single response. So I'll ask here.

What is a decent quality small step up from my Taig.

I'd say Seig X3. Little Machine Shop sells some Seigs with factory CNC
(ball screws and Mach 3). You can't compare the rigidity of a 500lb
machine with one that is 100lbs.

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:52:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Ignoramus12820" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



(buying a new substandard mill

What other alternatives are there in a small mill?

What alternatives are there that do not cost a lot more?

I have a Taig because I was told it's a decent quality mill for its size
and
price. To be quite frank I disagree. It requires constant adjustment,
and
the Z axis is horrible in my opinion. When I talked to Taig about the
clamp
on ways they told me its should be within a hundredth along its length.
You
have got to be kidding me. That is 0.01" No wonder it binds up
sometimes.
Yeah I know its made right here, and that was another draw, but if I had
bought a cheap Chinese mill instead of cheap American mill I would atleast
have expected to spend a lot of time tweaking and adjusting to get decent
work out of it. The Sieg mills are atleast heavier and more robust,
although I have really only looked at the SX4 which is a little larger
machine than the SX1.

Don't say Grizzly. A lot of their machines are identical to the Sieg
machines and made in the same factory. Just have a different label. Same
with the HF machines and several other companies. Even Jet and Enco
machines (for a large step up in price) can be found under other labels
with
different color paint.

Whether you have any respect for that poster is not the question to me,
but
rather what other alternatives are there in small machines? Sherline?
They
are smaller than the Taig mills.

Not everybody can afford to chunk out 6 to 40 grand for a brand new big
name
machine, and not everybody has the ability to spend months retrofitting a
used clapped out machine or the time. Guys like Gunner do not count. I
am
sure he could refit a clapped out machine to like new in a day, but that
is
what he does for a living. The rest of us have to learn every single
thing
one issue at a time and hope guys like him will be kind enough to guide us
in the right direction., Nor do most of us have the ability to look at a
used machine and know if it can be fixed up for a reasonable amount of
time
or money. It's a lot safer to buy a small new mill to do small projects.
It may not be great, but it will run.

I asked recently on the ZONE what a good slightly larger step up machine
would be from my Taig. Something not too much more money and I
specifically
said, not the Sieg machines because their working envelope was not much
bigger if at all. I did not get one single response. So I'll ask here.

What is a decent quality small step up from my Taig.

I'd say Seig X3. Little Machine Shop sells some Seigs with factory CNC
(ball screws and Mach 3). You can't compare the rigidity of a 500lb
machine with one that is 100lbs.

As much as I hate to say it, that is what I have been finding. The moderate
size Seig is about as good as it gets without going way up in size and
price. I'ld probably go with the X4 or SX4.

I've also been looking at the MaxNC machines. I was thinking of asking them
if I could buy a MaxNC 15 without their motors, controller, and spindle so I
could fit my own setup. I've already got one of their little NC 5 machines
I bought as scrap, and plan to retro with the controller and motors I took
off my Taig when I upgraded it to the Gecko controller with bigger motors.

I guess I really need to look at a Seig and see what I think of their ways,
since a couple people already make a bolt on ball screw conversion for it.
Unfortunately the local HF store no longer stocks much of anything so I
can't look at their color painted version of it locally.

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus12820" wrote in
message ...
On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



(buying a new substandard mill

What other alternatives are there in a small mill?

What alternatives are there that do not cost a lot more?

I have a Taig because I was told it's a decent quality mill for its
size and price. To be quite frank I disagree. It requires constant
adjustment, and the Z axis is horrible in my opinion. When I talked
to Taig about the clamp on ways they told me its should be within a
hundredth along its length. You have got to be kidding me. That is
0.01" No wonder it binds up sometimes. Yeah I know its made right
here, and that was another draw, but if I had bought a cheap Chinese
mill instead of cheap American mill I would atleast have expected to
spend a lot of time tweaking and adjusting to get decent work out of
it. The Sieg mills are atleast heavier and more robust, although I
have really only looked at the SX4 which is a little larger machine
than the SX1.

Don't say Grizzly. A lot of their machines are identical to the Sieg
machines and made in the same factory. Just have a different label.
Same with the HF machines and several other companies. Even Jet and
Enco machines (for a large step up in price) can be found under other
labels with different color paint.

Whether you have any respect for that poster is not the question to
me, but rather what other alternatives are there in small machines?
Sherline? They are smaller than the Taig mills.

Not everybody can afford to chunk out 6 to 40 grand for a brand new
big name machine, and not everybody has the ability to spend months
retrofitting a used clapped out machine or the time. Guys like Gunner
do not count. I am sure he could refit a clapped out machine to like
new in a day, but that is what he does for a living. The rest of us
have to learn every single thing one issue at a time and hope guys
like him will be kind enough to guide us in the right direction., Nor
do most of us have the ability to look at a used machine and know if
it can be fixed up for a reasonable amount of time or money. It's a
lot safer to buy a small new mill to do small projects. It may not be
great, but it will run.

I asked recently on the ZONE what a good slightly larger step up
machine would be from my Taig. Something not too much more money and
I specifically said, not the Sieg machines because their working
envelope was not much bigger if at all. I did not get one single
response. So I'll ask here.

What is a decent quality small step up from my Taig.



I was considering a new Sieg X3 CNC mill earlier in the year but in the
end I bought a 2nd hand Denford Triac PC from a machine tool dealer. I
had contacted a well known UK vendor of the Sieg X3 CNC and they would
do a demo but wouldn't or couldn't provide any contacts of existing
users and I didn't get any reply to a similar question on the UK
engineering news group. I had concerns about the column rigidity of the
X3 and have subsequently had that confirmed by another with the non CNC
X3. The Triac is about the same spec but seems more heavily constructed
and the column depth where it bolts to the base is about 3 times that of
the X3. I'm refitting it with a break out board and will by using EMC2.
The Triac is fairly common in the UK but I understand they're available
in the US also. Mines came with quick release tooling which I think is
standard, the basic spindle taper is a ISO30. The Triac is also
available as standard with an ATC.

I was considering a new Sieg X3 CNC mill earlier in the year but in the
end I bought a 2nd hand Denford Triac PC from a machine tool dealer. I
had contacted a well known UK vendor of the Sieg X3 CNC and they would
do a demo but wouldn't or couldn't provide any contacts of existing
users and I didn't get any reply to a similar question on the UK
engineering news group. I had concerns about the column rigidity of the
X3 and have subsequently had that confirmed by another with the non CNC
X3. The Triac is about the same spec but seems more heavily constructed
and the column depth where it bolts to the base is about 3 times that of
the X3. I'm refitting it with a break out board and will by using EMC2.
The Triac is fairly common in the UK but I understand they're available
in the US also. Mines came with quick release tooling which I think is
standard, the basic spindle taper is a ISO30. The Triac is also
available as standard with an ATC.

I hadn't heard of this unit. I found a clip on U tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol_sFbcKekM

It looks good. How much does the machine weigh?

Karl

Ignoramus12820 wrote:

On 2010-08-19, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:15:57 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/tls/1902372658.html

Run Away! Run Away!

That first picture tells you all you need to know.
First impression: crack or meth head?



Typical "failed retard project".

A bad idea from the start (buying a new substandard mill

I have to disagree with you here, the Sieg X2 mini-mill is a decent
machine and probably one of the best in it's size class. The X3 is
particularly nice.

You have to remember two things:

- Not everyone works on large scale stuff, some people like to only work
on "model" sized parts.

- Not everyone has the room for a larger machine, even the Tormach ones,
much less your Bridgeport. An X2 or X3 based mill can readily be setup
in an apartment extra bedroom for example.

I have to disagree with you here, the Sieg X2 mini-mill is a decent
machine and probably one of the best in it's size class. The X3 is
particularly nice.

You have to remember two things:

- Not everyone works on large scale stuff, some people like to only work
on "model" sized parts.

- Not everyone has the room for a larger machine, even the Tormach ones,
much less your Bridgeport. An X2 or X3 based mill can readily be setup
in an apartment extra bedroom for example.

In the not too distant future, I'll be spending most my time in a
small setting with only an extra bedroom for a shop. I've kind of
looked at the syil X6. is this the same as sieg? have you seen this
mill?

I'd want to toss the steppers and put on a pro quality CNC control. Do
you happen to know of a 1000 lb. class CNC mill that would be older
and thus possible to buy with a dead control?

Karl

On 2010-08-19, Karl Townsend wrote:
In the not too distant future, I'll be spending most my time in a
small setting with only an extra bedroom for a shop. I've kind of
looked at the syil X6. is this the same as sieg? have you seen this
mill?

So, you are tired of all this big stuff?

I'd want to toss the steppers and put on a pro quality CNC control. Do
you happen to know of a 1000 lb. class CNC mill that would be older
and thus possible to buy with a dead control?

I have never seen anything like that for sale.

i

Karl Townsend wrote:

I have to disagree with you here, the Sieg X2 mini-mill is a decent
machine and probably one of the best in it's size class. The X3 is
particularly nice.

You have to remember two things:

- Not everyone works on large scale stuff, some people like to only work
on "model" sized parts.

- Not everyone has the room for a larger machine, even the Tormach ones,
much less your Bridgeport. An X2 or X3 based mill can readily be setup
in an apartment extra bedroom for example.

In the not too distant future, I'll be spending most my time in a
small setting with only an extra bedroom for a shop. I've kind of
looked at the syil X6. is this the same as sieg? have you seen this
mill?

Syil's original machine was based on the Seig X3, their newer machines
are apparently their own design / manufacture.


I'd want to toss the steppers and put on a pro quality CNC control. Do
you happen to know of a 1000 lb. class CNC mill that would be older
and thus possible to buy with a dead control?

You need to spend some time with these "junk" CNC controls as you seem
to thing they are, then perhaps you'll understand that they are not at
all "junk".

Steppers are *not* the big drawback you seem to think, as long as they
have been sized properly and you use the machine within it's ratings.

If you really want servos, you can add inexpensive step / dir servos and
get all the functionality that servos have over steppers, basically just
following error detection when you try to overload the machine. Servos
have other advantages over steppers, however they don't really come into
play in this size machine.

On the software end you need to realize that Mach3 and EMC2 are just as
capable as any other CNC control software within their 6 axis limitation
(controls on those zillion axis "Swiss" CNC lathes are a whole 'nother
thing). Please review exactly what features are on your "pro" control
and then look and find the exact same feature is available on both Mach3
and EMC2.

Neither Mach3 nor EMC2 have the I/O limitations you seem to think they
have, if you need 100 I/Os either will readily accommodate that. If you
need control of an ATC, either will readily accommodate that. In any
case you won't likely need 100 I/O or ATC control on this sized machine.
If you really want to be surprised, do a new search and find the ATC
that is produced for the Sieg X2 conversions and is controlled by Mach3.