Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted metal.
I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that auto
darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these little
tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of weld to
grind. My patch panel didn't match up perfectly at a bend so I tacked the
top and then finish formed the panel in place, it didn't need to be perfect
but did need to be below the surface to be built up with bondo.

After welding and grinding I built up with bondo and inline sanded, built up
with bondo again, inline sanded again, and a couple times again! I had to
weld up a thin place in the metal that showed up when trying to inline sand
the repair flat. The last time I bondo'd I didn't use quite enough hardner
and maybe it will be ready for sanding tomorrow after work. The previous
time I bondo'd it started looking real good, sandpaper made contact with the
whole surface except an angled part I think will take some hand work.

At first I set my welder to feed about 10" of wire in 6 seconds, I saw this
recommended to set 100"/min feed for auto body welding with 0.023" wire. My
preliminary heat setting caused surging, the wire would start an arc, burn
back too far, stop, and repeat. After some trial and error I found out
turning the heat down a little more gave me a more continuous weld.

At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto body
welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln dealer
and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and compare
it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the continuous heat
adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to run a nice bead,
but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted
metal. I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that
auto darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these
little tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of
weld to grind. My patch panel didn't match up perfectly at a bend so I
tacked the top and then finish formed the panel in place, it didn't need
to be perfect but did need to be below the surface to be built up with
bondo.

After welding and grinding I built up with bondo and inline sanded, built
up with bondo again, inline sanded again, and a couple times again! I had
to weld up a thin place in the metal that showed up when trying to inline
sand the repair flat. The last time I bondo'd I didn't use quite enough
hardner and maybe it will be ready for sanding tomorrow after work. The
previous time I bondo'd it started looking real good, sandpaper made
contact with the whole surface except an angled part I think will take
some hand work.

At first I set my welder to feed about 10" of wire in 6 seconds, I saw
this recommended to set 100"/min feed for auto body welding with 0.023"
wire. My preliminary heat setting caused surging, the wire would start an
arc, burn back too far, stop, and repeat. After some trial and error I
found out turning the heat down a little more gave me a more continuous
weld.

At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto
body welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln
dealer and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and
compare it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the
continuous heat adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to
run a nice bead, but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN

Did you try the punch/flanger? It really helps to flange the metal and
overlap it. I'm getting my Nissan Diesel cabover back on the road, I rebuilt
the cab several years back with the Hobart Handler 175. Still runs like a
top, but the fender I didn't rebuild disintegrated, I will probably have to
fabricate a new one.

"ATP" wrote in message
...

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
snip
At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto
body welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln
dealer and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and
compare it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the
continuous heat adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to
run a nice bead, but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN

Did you try the punch/flanger? It really helps to flange the metal and
overlap it. I'm getting my Nissan Diesel cabover back on the road, I
rebuilt the cab several years back with the Hobart Handler 175. Still runs
like a top, but the fender I didn't rebuild disintegrated, I will probably
have to fabricate a new one.

Not on this one, this hole had metal behind it about 3/16 or so, it was
tempting to just fill it with body filler. For this area I thought a butt
weld might be best to leave no place for moisture to get trapped.

I plan to get some rear fender arches and will probably flange the metal for
them, I feel I could do a much better weld, as in less grinding, if I
flanged the metal. I may still try to butt weld on the fender arch itself,
since it gets road crud thrown up there that might get trapped in a flange.
I would like to use the flange on the patch panel part that is more than a
couple inches away from the wheel arch.

After spending so much time with this one rust hole I'm going to look into
the price of a new fender since the wheel arch looks much more difficult to
repair, much larger damaged area.

I let my 12 year old son play with the mig welder on some 22Ga and he got
where he could run a bead on it, without burning through most of the time.
Seems like a lot of work for a little repair but I had a nice time with my
son and he loves messing with these kinds of things. Hopefully I can have
something to pass on to him before I go.

RogerN

Roger, this is beautiful and very empowering.

i

RogerN wrote:
Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted metal.
I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that auto
darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these little
tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of weld to
grind. My patch panel didn't match up perfectly at a bend so I tacked the
top and then finish formed the panel in place, it didn't need to be perfect
but did need to be below the surface to be built up with bondo.

After welding and grinding I built up with bondo and inline sanded, built up
with bondo again, inline sanded again, and a couple times again! I had to
weld up a thin place in the metal that showed up when trying to inline sand
the repair flat. The last time I bondo'd I didn't use quite enough hardner
and maybe it will be ready for sanding tomorrow after work. The previous
time I bondo'd it started looking real good, sandpaper made contact with the
whole surface except an angled part I think will take some hand work.

At first I set my welder to feed about 10" of wire in 6 seconds, I saw this
recommended to set 100"/min feed for auto body welding with 0.023" wire. My
preliminary heat setting caused surging, the wire would start an arc, burn
back too far, stop, and repeat. After some trial and error I found out
turning the heat down a little more gave me a more continuous weld.

At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto body
welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln dealer
and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and compare
it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the continuous heat
adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to run a nice bead,
but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN



Here is an EASY way to adjust a MIG. First you pick a current level that
you think will work for the steel you have. This isn't real hard and
with some practice you will be able to look at the steel and tell.

Then adjust the wire feed. For this you LISTEN to what the weld sounds
like. What you want to hear is a nice even sound a LOT like frying food
in a pan.


As for the rest it sounds like you have most of it figured out BUT I
will tell you that if you didn't put in enough hardener the Bondo will
NEVER set up correctly. I would knock that layer off and mix a new batch.


For thin sheet metal you want SHORT tack welds. Nothing longer than
1/2"-1" and not close together. Hit one side then the opposite side. If
you end up with small holes the easy way to fill them is to use a copper
paddle. I make most of mine out of heavy copper sheet. Then just rivet
on a handle or grab tab. Hold the paddle tight behind the hole and use a
motion like a plug weld to fill the hole.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

RogerN wrote:
"ATP" wrote in message
...
"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
snip
At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto
body welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln
dealer and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and
compare it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the
continuous heat adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to
run a nice bead, but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN

Did you try the punch/flanger? It really helps to flange the metal and
overlap it. I'm getting my Nissan Diesel cabover back on the road, I
rebuilt the cab several years back with the Hobart Handler 175. Still runs
like a top, but the fender I didn't rebuild disintegrated, I will probably
have to fabricate a new one.

Not on this one, this hole had metal behind it about 3/16 or so, it was
tempting to just fill it with body filler. For this area I thought a butt
weld might be best to leave no place for moisture to get trapped.

I plan to get some rear fender arches and will probably flange the metal for
them, I feel I could do a much better weld, as in less grinding, if I
flanged the metal. I may still try to butt weld on the fender arch itself,
since it gets road crud thrown up there that might get trapped in a flange.
I would like to use the flange on the patch panel part that is more than a
couple inches away from the wheel arch.

Use a flange, weld in the panel AFTER spraying the area with a weld
through primer. Then once the weld is cool and grinding is done shoot
the back of the panel with a good undercoat. Will probably outlast the
rest of the vehicle then.


After spending so much time with this one rust hole I'm going to look into
the price of a new fender since the wheel arch looks much more difficult to
repair, much larger damaged area.

Wheel openings are a B*(CH on some vehicles. If your not worried about
keeping it "all original sheet metal" then grab a replacement. CLEAN it
very well and undercoat it prior to install. Makes them last longer.

Also keep in mind that primer is NOT a paint. It will allow moisture to
pass through it enough to cause problems. What I generally do if I'm
going to be working on a daily driver is to repair ONE panel at a time.
Then sand it, prime and shoot a single coat of paint on. Don't buy the
expensive stuff for this, just cheap enamel that can be sanded off later
when you shoot the entire vehicle.


I let my 12 year old son play with the mig welder on some 22Ga and he got
where he could run a bead on it, without burning through most of the time.
Seems like a lot of work for a little repair but I had a nice time with my
son and he loves messing with these kinds of things. Hopefully I can have
something to pass on to him before I go.

RogerN




--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...


I plan to get some rear fender arches and will probably flange the metal
for them, I feel I could do a much better weld, as in less grinding, if I
flanged the metal. I may still try to butt weld on the fender arch
itself, since it gets road crud thrown up there that might get trapped in
a flange. I would like to use the flange on the patch panel part that is
more than a couple inches away from the wheel arch.

I was taking the same approach, but found the areas where I used seam tape
or the liquid held up fine. Kept the moisture out and they painted up just
fine.

After spending so much time with this one rust hole I'm going to look into
the price of a new fender since the wheel arch looks much more difficult
to repair, much larger damaged area.

Not a bad idea. The fenders I'm working on don't involve curves and might be
out of stock.


I let my 12 year old son play with the mig welder on some 22Ga and he got
where he could run a bead on it, without burning through most of the time.
Seems like a lot of work for a little repair but I had a nice time with my
son and he loves messing with these kinds of things. Hopefully I can have
something to pass on to him before I go.

RogerN

My son is 11, he's working with me on rebuilding a half pipe.

You have welding skills, which is good. I do not. My sheet metal
repairs use pop rivets, and zip screws.

A couple vehicles ago, I noticed it was rusting one side, but less so
on the other. The less rust side, someone had filled in the void with
high expansion Great Stuff foam. Since then, I've tried to foam in the
voids of vehicles. Some vehicles arrive too rotted out to foam. And
sometimes I neglect the foam.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted
metal.
I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that auto
darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these
little
tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of
weld to
grind. My patch panel didn't match up perfectly at a bend so I tacked
the
top and then finish formed the panel in place, it didn't need to be
perfect
but did need to be below the surface to be built up with bondo.

After welding and grinding I built up with bondo and inline sanded,
built up
with bondo again, inline sanded again, and a couple times again! I
had to
weld up a thin place in the metal that showed up when trying to inline
sand
the repair flat. The last time I bondo'd I didn't use quite enough
hardner
and maybe it will be ready for sanding tomorrow after work. The
previous
time I bondo'd it started looking real good, sandpaper made contact
with the
whole surface except an angled part I think will take some hand work.

At first I set my welder to feed about 10" of wire in 6 seconds, I saw
this
recommended to set 100"/min feed for auto body welding with 0.023"
wire. My
preliminary heat setting caused surging, the wire would start an arc,
burn
back too far, stop, and repeat. After some trial and error I found
out
turning the heat down a little more gave me a more continuous weld.

At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto
body
welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln
dealer
and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and
compare
it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the continuous
heat
adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to run a nice
bead,
but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted
metal. I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that
auto darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these
little tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of
weld to grind.

If you're not already using a flap disc on your grinder then try one. Faster
metal removal, more controllable and the finish is better.

A few points that may be helpful as you get more familiar with the welder
you're using.

A mild steel wire is important, there are special grades of wire that are
really tough to grind away.
Lincoln SuperArc L-56 is a ER70S-6 wire, and I believe I found that it was a
mild steel wire when I looked it up.
The ER70xx designation is the majority of wire that I see at retail stores,
so it's very common.

Choosing wire with a bright finish has always worked well for me, even when
choosing fluxcore wire. I've known some guys that have had nothing but
problems with a fluxcore wire that had a dark appearance, almost as dark as
black oxide.

Putting the wire on is a lot easier than removing it.

I try to get the Heat setting a little hot, and attempt to move the tip
quickly, to avoid a lot of build-up of bead above the surface of the
sheetmetal (which is a very different method than making structural welds
with thicker, stronger parts).

A build-up/weld height of 1/16" may not look like much to remove, but it
consumes (essentially wastes) a considerable amount of time.

When grinding, the fastest removal of weld is accomplished with the very
edge of the abrasive wheel (like using a bench grinder wheel), not the
broader face, as would be appropriate for sanding.
With the edge of the wheel contacting the metal (grinder spindle parallel to
the metal's surface), the edge is continuously refreshed as material is
ground away.

--
WB
..........


"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted
metal. I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that
auto darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these
little tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of
weld to grind. My patch panel didn't match up perfectly at a bend so I
tacked the top and then finish formed the panel in place, it didn't need
to be perfect but did need to be below the surface to be built up with
bondo.

After welding and grinding I built up with bondo and inline sanded, built
up with bondo again, inline sanded again, and a couple times again! I had
to weld up a thin place in the metal that showed up when trying to inline
sand the repair flat. The last time I bondo'd I didn't use quite enough
hardner and maybe it will be ready for sanding tomorrow after work. The
previous time I bondo'd it started looking real good, sandpaper made
contact with the whole surface except an angled part I think will take
some hand work.

At first I set my welder to feed about 10" of wire in 6 seconds, I saw
this recommended to set 100"/min feed for auto body welding with 0.023"
wire. My preliminary heat setting caused surging, the wire would start an
arc, burn back too far, stop, and repeat. After some trial and error I
found out turning the heat down a little more gave me a more continuous
weld.

At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto
body welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln
dealer and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and
compare it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the
continuous heat adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to
run a nice bead, but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN

"ATP" wrote in message
...

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted
metal. I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that
auto darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these
little tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of
weld to grind.

If you're not already using a flap disc on your grinder then try one.
Faster metal removal, more controllable and the finish is better.

OK, never tried one but I'll try one out.

RogerN

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
A few points that may be helpful as you get more familiar with the welder
you're using.

A mild steel wire is important, there are special grades of wire that are
really tough to grind away.
Lincoln SuperArc L-56 is a ER70S-6 wire, and I believe I found that it was
a mild steel wire when I looked it up.
The ER70xx designation is the majority of wire that I see at retail
stores, so it's very common.

Choosing wire with a bright finish has always worked well for me, even
when choosing fluxcore wire. I've known some guys that have had nothing
but problems with a fluxcore wire that had a dark appearance, almost as
dark as black oxide.

Putting the wire on is a lot easier than removing it.

I try to get the Heat setting a little hot, and attempt to move the tip
quickly, to avoid a lot of build-up of bead above the surface of the
sheetmetal (which is a very different method than making structural welds
with thicker, stronger parts).

A build-up/weld height of 1/16" may not look like much to remove, but it
consumes (essentially wastes) a considerable amount of time.

When grinding, the fastest removal of weld is accomplished with the very
edge of the abrasive wheel (like using a bench grinder wheel), not the
broader face, as would be appropriate for sanding.
With the edge of the wheel contacting the metal (grinder spindle parallel
to the metal's surface), the edge is continuously refreshed as material is
ground away.

--
WB
.........


Thanks, the tips sound good. I was having a lot of trouble burning away
metal, I had some gap in places in my butt weld and had to build up to fill
in the hole. I'll have to get some copper to help avoid burning holes and
to fill in voids.

I think my heat setting was a bit hot, it was easy to make a hole in either
the new sheet metal or the original.

I spent a lot of time fixing a little hole but hopefully I'll get better and
faster at it with practice, gotta start somewhere.

I need to get set up better with the sanding blocks too, a single inline
sander just doesn't seem adequate but the 36 grit paper levels bondo pretty
quickly.


RogerN

I believe you're going to find that it's very easy to blow holes in the work
when trying to butt weld sheetmetal. It can be done with a MIG welder,
although butt welds are more easily accomplished with (better suited to) the
TIG process.
A drawback to TIG is that it requires more skill which generally only comes
with lots of practice.
For the task of sheetmetal rust repair on a common used vehicle, there isn't
a better solution than MIG, IMO.
Fore priceless, rare antique restorations, an experienced TIG welder may be
more desirable to make invisible repairs.

An inline sander isn't the best option for quick leveling, IMO, they're more
useful for sanding in later pre-finish steps. After using a Hutchins
straight-line sander for a while, I discovered that the orbital version
(with the same size pad) was better at cutting body filler.
The straight-line models may work better with newer blends of body filler,
which I'm unaware of. I haven't tried any of the newer "lightweight"
formulas.

As with Mig wire, putting on body filler is easier than taking it off.
Getting used to just filling the low area first will save time and wasted
filler material. One can expand the coverage area with the final application
which will be the foundation for the primer coat.

The flanging tools suggested earlier should make you're patch work a lot
easier, as that method prepares the area for lap welds (much less likely to
blow holes), instead of butt joints.
The formation of a flange also acts as a structural reinforcement bend,
which can stabilize a panel area which may be prone to warping or popping
like an old oil can bottom.
There are also manual/plier versions of the flanging and punch tools.
A copper backup tool may be very easily placed in a stripped out body shell,
but access to the exterior surface only of a sheetmetal panel may exclude
the use of the copper backup.

--
WB
..........


"RogerN" wrote in message
m...


Thanks, the tips sound good. I was having a lot of trouble burning away
metal, I had some gap in places in my butt weld and had to build up to
fill in the hole. I'll have to get some copper to help avoid burning
holes and to fill in voids.

I think my heat setting was a bit hot, it was easy to make a hole in
either the new sheet metal or the original.

I spent a lot of time fixing a little hole but hopefully I'll get better
and faster at it with practice, gotta start somewhere.

I need to get set up better with the sanding blocks too, a single inline
sander just doesn't seem adequate but the 36 grit paper levels bondo
pretty quickly.


RogerN

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:47:23 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

RogerN wrote:
Got my welder out and practiced running some beads on 22Ga sheet then
proceeded to weld the patch panel in place where I cut out the rusted metal.
I had to do a bunch of tack welds until I got it solid, boy that auto
darkening helment is great, first time I ever used one. All these little
tacks and filling in holes with short bursts left me a good bit of weld to
grind. My patch panel didn't match up perfectly at a bend so I tacked the
top and then finish formed the panel in place, it didn't need to be perfect
but did need to be below the surface to be built up with bondo.

After welding and grinding I built up with bondo and inline sanded, built up
with bondo again, inline sanded again, and a couple times again! I had to
weld up a thin place in the metal that showed up when trying to inline sand
the repair flat. The last time I bondo'd I didn't use quite enough hardner
and maybe it will be ready for sanding tomorrow after work. The previous
time I bondo'd it started looking real good, sandpaper made contact with the
whole surface except an angled part I think will take some hand work.

At first I set my welder to feed about 10" of wire in 6 seconds, I saw this
recommended to set 100"/min feed for auto body welding with 0.023" wire. My
preliminary heat setting caused surging, the wire would start an arc, burn
back too far, stop, and repeat. After some trial and error I found out
turning the heat down a little more gave me a more continuous weld.

At first attempt it seems my Century welder should do the job for auto body
welding. After some more practice I would like to go to the Lincoln dealer
and see if they have a Power Mig 140C demonstrator I could try and compare
it to my old Century. I see what you guys mean about the continuous heat
adjustment, I was able to fine tune the heat and wire to run a nice bead,
but the adjustments were tiny.

RogerN



Here is an EASY way to adjust a MIG. First you pick a current level that
you think will work for the steel you have. This isn't real hard and
with some practice you will be able to look at the steel and tell.

Then adjust the wire feed. For this you LISTEN to what the weld sounds
like. What you want to hear is a nice even sound a LOT like frying food
in a pan.

Yes!


As for the rest it sounds like you have most of it figured out BUT I
will tell you that if you didn't put in enough hardener the Bondo will
NEVER set up correctly. I would knock that layer off and mix a new batch.

Me too.


For thin sheet metal you want SHORT tack welds. Nothing longer than
1/2"-1" and not close together. Hit one side then the opposite side. If
you end up with small holes the easy way to fill them is to use a copper
paddle. I make most of mine out of heavy copper sheet. Then just rivet
on a handle or grab tab. Hold the paddle tight behind the hole and use a
motion like a plug weld to fill the hole.

That definitely works. But, with the little Linc SP125+, though I
have certainly blown a few holes, I have never once used a backing
paddle in autobody work. Just turn down the heat a little and weld
the hole shut, rather like doing a rosette weld except there's no
metal behind an eau chitte hole. It's easy with the right machine.

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:48:59 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:




Thanks, the tips sound good. I was having a lot of trouble burning away
metal, I had some gap in places in my butt weld and had to build up to fill
in the hole. I'll have to get some copper to help avoid burning holes and
to fill in voids.

I think my heat setting was a bit hot, it was easy to make a hole in either
the new sheet metal or the original.

I spent a lot of time fixing a little hole but hopefully I'll get better and
faster at it with practice, gotta start somewhere.

Practice is the key. Once you get good at patching holes, they become
a non-event -- and, oddly enough, seem to happen less often. Funny
how that works!

I need to get set up better with the sanding blocks too, a single inline
sander just doesn't seem adequate but the 36 grit paper levels bondo pretty
quickly.

You do have and use a cheese grater, right?

I have both manual and pneumatic inline sanders but I used them very,
very little. It takes some practice to get good with a DA and a high
speed rotary pneumatic sander, but it is well worth the time
investment. I did use an inline cheese grater quite a bit.

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:16:22 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I believe you're going to find that it's very easy to blow holes in the work
when trying to butt weld sheetmetal. It can be done with a MIG welder,
although butt welds are more easily accomplished with (better suited to) the
TIG process.
A drawback to TIG is that it requires more skill which generally only comes
with lots of practice.

It's also a lot slower.

For the task of sheetmetal rust repair on a common used vehicle, there isn't
a better solution than MIG, IMO.

I agree.

Fore priceless, rare antique restorations, an experienced TIG welder may be
more desirable to make invisible repairs.

An inline sander isn't the best option for quick leveling, IMO, they're more
useful for sanding in later pre-finish steps. After using a Hutchins
straight-line sander for a while, I discovered that the orbital version
(with the same size pad) was better at cutting body filler.

Yup!

The straight-line models may work better with newer blends of body filler,
which I'm unaware of. I haven't tried any of the newer "lightweight"
formulas.

As with Mig wire, putting on body filler is easier than taking it off.
Getting used to just filling the low area first will save time and wasted
filler material. One can expand the coverage area with the final application
which will be the foundation for the primer coat.

The flanging tools suggested earlier should make you're patch work a lot
easier, as that method prepares the area for lap welds (much less likely to
blow holes), instead of butt joints.
The formation of a flange also acts as a structural reinforcement bend,
which can stabilize a panel area which may be prone to warping or popping
like an old oil can bottom.
There are also manual/plier versions of the flanging and punch tools.
A copper backup tool may be very easily placed in a stripped out body shell,
but access to the exterior surface only of a sheetmetal panel may exclude
the use of the copper backup.

Whut he said.

A purist restorer wouldn't think of using a punch 'n flange, but for
rust work they're the clear way to go. Strong joints, quickly made,
easy to get right. Good butt welds and good metal work can be done to
require no bondo while the punch 'n flange will always require a
little bondo or lead. But a chunk of bondo the size of a walnut is
enough to deal with replacement of an entire rear fender skirt on a
pickup.

Since I'm in widebandland for a few days I'll repost my BYBS page.
(That's BackYard Body Shop)...

Check out
http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/BYBS/

The Blazer is shown five years after the last bodywork and paint was
done, just a bath to pretty her up for sale because I needed a pickup.
Sold it to the neighbor kid behind us, who loved it.

There was no original body metal below the trim line in that truck,
except for the tailgate. It had replacement door skins and a
replacement hood, rocker panels, quarter panels, etc etc. Paint was
Ditzler base-clear. It lived outdoors 24/7/365 and went where I drove
it, definitely not a garage queen.

Mary missed Ol' Blaze for years afterwards, even though it was a rough
noisy ride with no A/C. We had a lot of fun in that vehicle. Went
thru two engines and 3 trannies.

Don Foreman wrote:
....
It had replacement door skins and a
replacement hood, rocker panels, quarter panels, etc etc. ...

Went thru two engines and 3 trannies.

So, other than most of the body, the engine, transmission, (tires,
brakes, exhaust, battery, ...), it was original? BG

Bob

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:44:59 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Don Foreman wrote:
...
It had replacement door skins and a
replacement hood, rocker panels, quarter panels, etc etc. ...

Went thru two engines and 3 trannies.

So, other than most of the body, the engine, transmission, (tires,
brakes, exhaust, battery, ...), it was original? BG

That's right, just like the Harbor Fright hammer I inherited from Dad.
I've been through 3 handles, 5 wedges, and 2 heads, but I love my
original tool.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

We haven't seen a link to the BYBS webpage in quite a while. It's a great
example of what can be accomplished with some tools, skill and patience to
do the job correctly to achieve quality, lasting results.

It's not easy to refrain from rushing the job, when some guys might need to
drive the vehicle that they're trying to repair, but for those with other
vehicles to drive daily, the investment of "the time to do it right" is well
spent (especially with the present cost of replacement vehicles, and the
potential nightmares of modern automotive technology).

--
WB
..........


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:16:22 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

I believe you're going to find that it's very easy to blow holes in the
work
when trying to butt weld sheetmetal. It can be done with a MIG welder,
although butt welds are more easily accomplished with (better suited to)
the
TIG process.
A drawback to TIG is that it requires more skill which generally only
comes
with lots of practice.

It's also a lot slower.

For the task of sheetmetal rust repair on a common used vehicle, there
isn't
a better solution than MIG, IMO.

I agree.

Fore priceless, rare antique restorations, an experienced TIG welder may
be
more desirable to make invisible repairs.

An inline sander isn't the best option for quick leveling, IMO, they're
more
useful for sanding in later pre-finish steps. After using a Hutchins
straight-line sander for a while, I discovered that the orbital version
(with the same size pad) was better at cutting body filler.

Yup!

The straight-line models may work better with newer blends of body filler,
which I'm unaware of. I haven't tried any of the newer "lightweight"
formulas.

As with Mig wire, putting on body filler is easier than taking it off.
Getting used to just filling the low area first will save time and wasted
filler material. One can expand the coverage area with the final
application
which will be the foundation for the primer coat.

The flanging tools suggested earlier should make you're patch work a lot
easier, as that method prepares the area for lap welds (much less likely
to
blow holes), instead of butt joints.
The formation of a flange also acts as a structural reinforcement bend,
which can stabilize a panel area which may be prone to warping or popping
like an old oil can bottom.
There are also manual/plier versions of the flanging and punch tools.
A copper backup tool may be very easily placed in a stripped out body
shell,
but access to the exterior surface only of a sheetmetal panel may exclude
the use of the copper backup.

Whut he said.

A purist restorer wouldn't think of using a punch 'n flange, but for
rust work they're the clear way to go. Strong joints, quickly made,
easy to get right. Good butt welds and good metal work can be done to
require no bondo while the punch 'n flange will always require a
little bondo or lead. But a chunk of bondo the size of a walnut is
enough to deal with replacement of an entire rear fender skirt on a
pickup.

Since I'm in widebandland for a few days I'll repost my BYBS page.
(That's BackYard Body Shop)...

Check out
http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/BYBS/

The Blazer is shown five years after the last bodywork and paint was
done, just a bath to pretty her up for sale because I needed a pickup.
Sold it to the neighbor kid behind us, who loved it.

There was no original body metal below the trim line in that truck,
except for the tailgate. It had replacement door skins and a
replacement hood, rocker panels, quarter panels, etc etc. Paint was
Ditzler base-clear. It lived outdoors 24/7/365 and went where I drove
it, definitely not a garage queen.

Mary missed Ol' Blaze for years afterwards, even though it was a rough
noisy ride with no A/C. We had a lot of fun in that vehicle. Went
thru two engines and 3 trannies.