I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

For those who have experience with the import(regular) collets can you
give me an idea of the kind of problems you've run into, if any, due
to collet inaccuracy? (Before I get the other 32 to complete my round
set).

And am I correct in assuming that even import(regular) collets
wouldn't be anywhere near 1/64th of an inch off of perfect?

Can I also assume that as long as the correct collet is used there
really shouldn't be any real wear?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:

I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

For those who have experience with the import(regular) collets can you
give me an idea of the kind of problems you've run into, if any, due
to collet inaccuracy? (Before I get the other 32 to complete my round
set).

And am I correct in assuming that even import(regular) collets
wouldn't be anywhere near 1/64th of an inch off of perfect?

Can I also assume that as long as the correct collet is used there
really shouldn't be any real wear?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

Another issue..is that not all collets have the holes drilled in the
middle G

When you have a spindle nose thats dead nuts...000000+/-
and you put in a gauge pin..and the runout is .004....that means
something is not right. If it were .0001..its still not right.

Some of the imports are pretty good. Some are pretty bad. The biggest
problem with a lot of the collet sets..is that you have a mix of good
and bad ones. And if you dont select the good one..when you turn
it..things dont come out the right size.

Ive got a decent assortment of used collets, mostly Hardinge, some
Southbends (decent), some Lyndex, some Royals..some much older brands
like Rivette. But I dont have any chicom collets. Nor am I likely to.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

When you have a spindle nose thats dead nuts...000000+/-

....Which brings up the age old question: Where did the term "dead nuts"
come from?
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 08:02:30 -0400
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

snip
...Which brings up the age old question: Where did the term
"dead nuts" come from?

I know you're just having some fun with this, but this link has a good
collection of possibilities:

http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=4757

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 08:02:30 -0400
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

snip
...Which brings up the age old question: Where did the term
"dead nuts" come from?

I know you're just having some fun with this, but this link has a good
collection of possibilities:

http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=4757

I'm actually pretty serious about finding out... It comes up here at the
shop at least one a month.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 16:11:53 -0400
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 08:02:30 -0400
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

snip
...Which brings up the age old question: Where did the term
"dead nuts" come from?

I know you're just having some fun with this, but this link has a good
collection of possibilities:

http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=4757

I'm actually pretty serious about finding out... It comes up here at the
shop at least one a month.

Well I checked one other source right off, he hadn't written up
anything on that term yet. You could sign up at his site and ask the
question. Dave has a discussion/forum area. See:

http://www.wordorigins.org/

The link I posted covers a lot of sources. I think you will have a hard
time finding much more info than that. Quite a few of my better
reference books are quoted/used in that article.

The Google Books Project has been pushing antedates back for terms like
this with great regularity. Still takes some follow up though, their
OCR process also introduces quite a few errors...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Gunner Asch on Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:24:41 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:

I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

[snip]

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

Another issue..is that not all collets have the holes drilled in the
middle G

When you have a spindle nose thats dead nuts...000000+/-
and you put in a gauge pin..and the runout is .004....that means
something is not right. If it were .0001..its still not right.

Some of the imports are pretty good. Some are pretty bad. The biggest
problem with a lot of the collet sets..is that you have a mix of good
and bad ones. And if you dont select the good one..when you turn
it..things dont come out the right size.

So, best bet is in your copious spare time, go through all the
collets, and find out what size they "really" are, as well as how true
they might be?
I wonder how one might "true up" a collet. It would also depend
on whether the bore is undersized _and_ off center. Boring an
undersized one might be a challenge - I keep thinking of honing one
"out" to proper size, and possibly even to dead nuts centered, But
that would take some know how as well as time and equipment.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On 2010-06-09, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Gunner Asch on Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:24:41 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

[ ... ]

Another issue..is that not all collets have the holes drilled in the
middle G

When you have a spindle nose thats dead nuts...000000+/-
and you put in a gauge pin..and the runout is .004....that means
something is not right. If it were .0001..its still not right.

Some of the imports are pretty good. Some are pretty bad. The biggest
problem with a lot of the collet sets..is that you have a mix of good
and bad ones. And if you dont select the good one..when you turn
it..things dont come out the right size.

So, best bet is in your copious spare time, go through all the
collets, and find out what size they "really" are, as well as how true
they might be?
I wonder how one might "true up" a collet. It would also depend
on whether the bore is undersized _and_ off center. Boring an
undersized one might be a challenge - I keep thinking of honing one
"out" to proper size, and possibly even to dead nuts centered, But
that would take some know how as well as time and equipment.

What I would do is:

1) Put the collet in the lathe spindle.

2) Put pieces of the right size of shim stock in the slots so
it will not close much at all. (You want it to be just a little
oversized when not clamped.)

3) Mount a toolpost grinder on the compound (and put protective
coverings on everything to prevent the grit from damaging
things. Use a diamond to true the stone.

4) Check the runout and diameter as locked on the shims.

5) Grind it out to the desired size (perhaps selected in part by
the runout to be eliminated.

6) Re-mark it to show the actual size which it now fits.

7) Select another to be fixed and go to step one again. (No need
to repeat the protective covering part in (3) above -- just
leave it in place. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:45:27 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:24:41 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:

I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

[snip]

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

Another issue..is that not all collets have the holes drilled in the
middle G

When you have a spindle nose thats dead nuts...000000+/-
and you put in a gauge pin..and the runout is .004....that means
something is not right. If it were .0001..its still not right.

Some of the imports are pretty good. Some are pretty bad. The biggest
problem with a lot of the collet sets..is that you have a mix of good
and bad ones. And if you dont select the good one..when you turn
it..things dont come out the right size.

So, best bet is in your copious spare time, go through all the
collets, and find out what size they "really" are, as well as how true
they might be?
I wonder how one might "true up" a collet. It would also depend
on whether the bore is undersized _and_ off center. Boring an
undersized one might be a challenge - I keep thinking of honing one
"out" to proper size, and possibly even to dead nuts centered, But
that would take some know how as well as time and equipment.

My opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it..is to buy known
brands of Good collets and not bother with Chicom imports. Even used
collets will likely still be on the money. In fact..Ive only bought (1)
new collet, because I couldnt find a hex collet in 7/8s, used, anywhere.

And it was a Hardinge.

Collets( good ones) are hard as a whores heart. The only way you are
going to get an undersized one cleaned up to the proper size..is to
grind it to size. It can be done..but shrug...it depends on what you
are actually needing it for.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gunner Asch on Sat, 12 Jun 2010 00:38:39 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:45:27 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Wed, 09 Jun 2010 01:24:41 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:

I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

[snip]

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

Another issue..is that not all collets have the holes drilled in the
middle G

When you have a spindle nose thats dead nuts...000000+/-
and you put in a gauge pin..and the runout is .004....that means
something is not right. If it were .0001..its still not right.

Some of the imports are pretty good. Some are pretty bad. The biggest
problem with a lot of the collet sets..is that you have a mix of good
and bad ones. And if you dont select the good one..when you turn
it..things dont come out the right size.

So, best bet is in your copious spare time, go through all the
collets, and find out what size they "really" are, as well as how true
they might be?
I wonder how one might "true up" a collet. It would also depend
on whether the bore is undersized _and_ off center. Boring an
undersized one might be a challenge - I keep thinking of honing one
"out" to proper size, and possibly even to dead nuts centered, But
that would take some know how as well as time and equipment.

My opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it..is to buy known
brands of Good collets and not bother with Chicom imports. Even used
collets will likely still be on the money. In fact..Ive only bought (1)
new collet, because I couldnt find a hex collet in 7/8s, used, anywhere.

And it was a Hardinge.

Collets( good ones) are hard as a whores heart. The only way you are
going to get an undersized one cleaned up to the proper size..is to
grind it to size. It can be done..but shrug...it depends on what you
are actually needing it for.

The consensus seems to be, out of round collets get dumped,
undersized get remarked. Unless one wants to spend the time and
effort to hone one out to size ... it isn't worth it.

Sort of like making your own mill from scratch - starting from the
casting of the big iron bits. Yes, it can be done, but why???
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Jun 9, 4:24*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7



wrote:
I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

For those who have experience with the import(regular) collets can you
give me an idea of the kind of problems you've run into, if any, due
to collet inaccuracy? (Before I get the other 32 to complete my round
set).

And am I correct in assuming that even import(regular) collets
wouldn't be anywhere near 1/64th of an inch off of perfect?

Can I also assume that as long as the correct collet is used there
really shouldn't be any real wear?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. *Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

Another issue..is that not all collets have the holes drilled in the
middle G

When you have a spindle nose thats *dead nuts...000000+/-
and you put in a gauge pin..and the runout is .004....that means
something is not right. *If it were .0001..its still not right.

Some of the imports are pretty good. Some are pretty bad. The biggest
problem with a lot of the collet sets..is that you have a mix of good
and bad *ones. *And if you dont select the good one..when you turn
it..things dont come out the right size.

Ive got a decent assortment of used collets, mostly Hardinge, some
Southbends (decent), some Lyndex, some Royals..some much older brands
like Rivette. *But I dont have any chicom collets. Nor am I likely to.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Gunner Asch

Ok. So I should concentrate on getting common sizes from Hardinge,
Lyndex, and Royal. Do these manufacturers make collets for MT2, MT3,
and R8?

Also, I'm thinking that I probably should get new collect blocks also,
since the ones I have were picked up from the same seller I got the
import collets from.

BTW. How accurate can one expect to make collet blocks for other sizes
where they are not available?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-06-10, Searcher7 wrote:
On Jun 9, 4:24*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7



wrote:
I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

For those who have experience with the import(regular) collets can you
give me an idea of the kind of problems you've run into, if any, due
to collet inaccuracy? (Before I get the other 32 to complete my round
set).

And am I correct in assuming that even import(regular) collets
wouldn't be anywhere near 1/64th of an inch off of perfect?

Can I also assume that as long as the correct collet is used there
really shouldn't be any real wear?

[ ... ]

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. *Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

[ ... ]

Ok. So I should concentrate on getting common sizes from Hardinge,
Lyndex, and Royal. Do these manufacturers make collets for MT2, MT3,
and R8?

R8 -- yes. MT2 and MT3 are less common these days. Hardinge
*might* still make them, but probably not the others. And be sitting
down before you ask for the price of *any* Hardinge collet. :-)

And R8 is not a work-holding collet -- it is a *tool-holding*
collet -- specifically end-mills.

As for the MT-2 and MT-3 -- the most likely place to find them
is from the same people who sell the import machine tools which
currently use them.

The discussion was about 5C collets, which are the ones which
come from many makers in many degrees of quality.

Also, I'm thinking that I probably should get new collect blocks also,
since the ones I have were picked up from the same seller I got the
import collets from.

Don't worry about it. The typical use of a collet block is not
going to require the accuracy that you want from a lathe spindle. The
most common use of the hex collet blocks is milling a hex head on a bolt
which you have made in an uncommon size. The same thing with a square
collet block -- making the screw heads found on older lathes for common
locking screws. The precision is not really that important. The block
and the collet is simply a convenient way of holding the workpiece,
especially if you don't have a dividing head with a 3-jaw chuck on it.

BTW. How accurate can one expect to make collet blocks for other sizes
where they are not available?

You can *expect* any degree of accuracy you can imagine.
Whether you will *get* it depends on your skill and the accuracy of the
machines you are using to make them.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Don (always the voice of reason) Nichols sez:

"The discussion was about 5C collets, which are the ones which
come from many makers in many degrees of quality.
Don't worry about it. The typical use of a collet block is not
going to require the accuracy that you want from a lathe spindle. The
most common use of the hex collet blocks is milling a hex head on a bolt
which you have made in an uncommon size. The same thing with a square
collet block -- making the screw heads found on older lathes for common
locking screws. The precision is not really that important. The block
and the collet is simply a convenient way of holding the workpiece,
especially if you don't have a dividing head with a 3-jaw chuck on it."


Many years ago I bought an expensive "complete" set of W. Germany 5-C collets, graduated by 32 nds.
Soon, I was overtaken by the consuming desire to fluff out the set to 64ths. I agonized over the
decision to spend big money on the make-up collets for maybe 5 minutes and then ordered "made in
Taiwan" types from Enco. With the type of work I do, the difference in accuracy is indiscernible.
I suspect I get more taper from twist in the lathe's bed caused by foundation shifts than from
collets. In other words, "I don't worry about it".

Bob Swinney

"Robert Swinney" wrote:

Many years ago I bought an expensive "complete" set of W. Germany 5-C collets, graduated by 32 nds.
Soon, I was overtaken by the consuming desire to fluff out the set to 64ths. I agonized over the
decision to spend big money on the make-up collets for maybe 5 minutes and then ordered "made in
Taiwan" types from Enco. With the type of work I do, the difference in accuracy is indiscernible.
I suspect I get more taper from twist in the lathe's bed caused by foundation shifts than from
collets. In other words, "I don't worry about it".

I've taken a different tact. I bought a 1/8 - 1 set along with a 5/16" in lyndex since
they are good enough that I don't have to worry if they will be good enough. When I'm
making something that lends itself to a collet I do not have, I just order the one I need.
The collection is slowly growing with sizes I've actually used.

Btw, I'm now getting one day shipping from McMaster.


Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Jun 10, 1:26*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-06-10, Searcher7 wrote:



On Jun 9, 4:24 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7

wrote:
I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

For those who have experience with the import(regular) collets can you
give me an idea of the kind of problems you've run into, if any, due
to collet inaccuracy? (Before I get the other 32 to complete my round
set).

And am I correct in assuming that even import(regular) collets
wouldn't be anywhere near 1/64th of an inch off of perfect?

Can I also assume that as long as the correct collet is used there
really shouldn't be any real wear?

* * * * [ ... ]

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

* * * * [ ... ]

Ok. So I should concentrate on getting common sizes from Hardinge,
Lyndex, and Royal. Do these manufacturers make collets for MT2, MT3,
and R8?

* * * * R8 -- yes. *MT2 and MT3 are less common these days. *Hardinge
*might* still make them, but probably not the others. *And be sitting
down before you ask for the price of *any* Hardinge collet. :-)

That's the reason I got the imported collets to begin with. :-)

* * * * And R8 is not a work-holding collet -- it is a *tool-holding*
collet -- specifically end-mills.

Yes. I had decided to not get the R8 end mill holders and get the R8
collets instead.

* * * * As for the MT-2 and MT-3 -- the most likely place to find them
is from the same people who sell the import machine tools which
currently use them.

My mini lathe has a .787 spindle bore, so I figured I would get an
MT-3(3MT) set so I wouldn't need a collet chuck for that range up to
3/4".: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1948

And a set of R8 collets to cover the endmills for my mill/drill.:
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2872
I just have to determine what sizes are best to get that give me a
good range of options for end mills.

(But not necessarily the collets in these links, since they are also
imports).

I would have considered these if I had gotten that Vertex dividing
head: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2999
But that particular set only goes up to 1/2" anyway.

I'm not sure of what, if any MT2 collets I should get. (My lathe
tailstock and rotary table center bore are MT2).
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1752

As for 5C. I still have that "poor man's" 5C collet chuck, spin
indexer, hor/vert. collet fixture, and collet blocks.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=3842
I'm thinking 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 7/8", 1" "precision"
collets.(In round, square and hex).

Getting all these collets from a quality manufacturer will be tough.
(The various spindle and bore standards are killing me).

* * * * The discussion was about 5C collets, which are the ones which
come from many makers in many degrees of quality.

Also, I'm thinking that I probably should get new collect blocks also,
since the ones I have were picked up from the same seller I got the
import collets from.

* * * * Don't worry about it. *The typical use of a collet block is not
going to require the accuracy that you want from a lathe spindle. *The
most common use of the hex collet blocks is milling a hex head on a bolt
which you have made in an uncommon size. *The same thing with a square
collet block -- making the screw heads found on older lathes for common
locking screws. *The precision is not really that important. *The block
and the collet is simply a convenient way of holding the workpiece,
especially if you don't have a dividing head with a 3-jaw chuck on it.

BTW. How accurate can one expect to make collet blocks for other sizes
where they are not available?

* * * * You can *expect* any degree of accuracy you can imagine.
Whether you will *get* it depends on your skill and the accuracy of the
machines you are using to make them.

Randy said that the problem he's found with the cheap collets is that
they are all undersized. If this is generally true I wonder if it
would be a plausible project correct the inaccuracies of at least some
of the imports. Of course, there will be concentricity as well as bore
size issues. (Which reminds me, I have to get a taper attachment).
Another issue is that my set of 5C collets were packed in four
different kinds of packages, which would probably mean they are even
more inconsistent.

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...t=IMG_0165.jpg

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-06-11, Searcher7 wrote:
On Jun 10, 1:26*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-06-10, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

* * * * [ ... ]

Ok. So I should concentrate on getting common sizes from Hardinge,
Lyndex, and Royal. Do these manufacturers make collets for MT2, MT3,
and R8?

* * * * R8 -- yes. *MT2 and MT3 are less common these days. *Hardinge
*might* still make them, but probably not the others. *And be sitting
down before you ask for the price of *any* Hardinge collet. :-)

That's the reason I got the imported collets to begin with. :-)

Understood. They may be all that is available these days.

* * * * And R8 is not a work-holding collet -- it is a *tool-holding*
collet -- specifically end-mills.

Yes. I had decided to not get the R8 end mill holders and get the R8
collets instead.

The end mill holders are better. R8 collets holding end mills
tend to slip with heavy cuts, causing the end mill to walk deeper and
deeper into the workpiece -- or even *through* it and into the mill table
or the vise.

I don't have an R8 spindle machine, but for end mills I prefer
end mill holders for the NTMB-30 and NTMB-40 tapers for my two machines
(with an adaptor allowing me to use the 30 taper holders in the larger
machine as well.)

* * * * As for the MT-2 and MT-3 -- the most likely place to find them
is from the same people who sell the import machine tools which
currently use them.

My mini lathe has a .787 spindle bore, so I figured I would get an
MT-3(3MT) set so I wouldn't need a collet chuck for that range up to
3/4".: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1948

With the disadvantage that you can't pass long workpieces
through the spindle as you can with 5C (or even 3C) collets. The
drawbar for those is hollow, while the drawbar for what you got is solid
(it uses internal threads in the collet back, while the 3C and 5C use
external threads instead.

And a set of R8 collets to cover the endmills for my mill/drill.:
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2872
I just have to determine what sizes are best to get that give me a
good range of options for end mills.

(But not necessarily the collets in these links, since they are also
imports).

The only disadvantage of the end mill holders is the extra
length. But remember my warning about the R8 collets slipping with
heavy cuts.

I would have considered these if I had gotten that Vertex dividing
head: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2999
But that particular set only goes up to 1/2" anyway.

Look for a good 3-jaw chuck to fit it instead.

I'm not sure of what, if any MT2 collets I should get. (My lathe
tailstock and rotary table center bore are MT2).
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1752

I would not bother. There are special collets for drill bits
for use in a drill press or tailstock ram -- but they expect a ground
flat on the end of the drill shank to prevent it spinning. And you can
get drill bits with a Morse Taper shank which is better than trying to
use drills in a collet anyway.

And these don't have the tang needed for extracting them from a
tailstock ram in a lathe. I can see you having to remove the ram from
the tailstock, clamp it in the 3-jaw chuck, and reach in through the
leadscrew hole with a rod to knock it out -- *every* time. Those are
not for use in a lathe tailstock.

And I don't see a use for collets in a rotary table bore.

Just because something *has* a Morse (or other) taper does not
mean that it is worth while getting collets to fit it. The tailstock
taper for a lathe is for centers -- or for drill chucks on an arbor, or
drill bits fitted with a Morse Taper shank.

As for 5C. I still have that "poor man's" 5C collet chuck, spin
indexer, hor/vert. collet fixture, and collet blocks.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=3842
I'm thinking 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 7/8", 1" "precision"
collets.(In round, square and hex).

Getting all these collets from a quality manufacturer will be tough.

It will also be *expensive* -- especially from Hardinge. :-)

(The various spindle and bore standards are killing me).

One reason to avoid getting collets for things which don't need
them.

[ ... ]

BTW. How accurate can one expect to make collet blocks for other sizes
where they are not available?

* * * * You can *expect* any degree of accuracy you can imagine.
Whether you will *get* it depends on your skill and the accuracy of the
machines you are using to make them.

Randy said that the problem he's found with the cheap collets is that
they are all undersized.

And someone else (quoted above) said that in *his* experience,
some are undersized and others oversized.

If this is generally true I wonder if it
would be a plausible project correct the inaccuracies of at least some
of the imports. Of course, there will be concentricity as well as bore
size issues.

And if they are *sufficiently* undersized, you can fix both the
size and concentricity problems in one operation. Note that the collets
are hardened, so don't expect to turn them right -- you will have to
grind them to the right size, using a toolpost grinder on the lathe.

You will have to spend quite a bit of time protecting the bed
and other precision surfaces from the abrasives from the grinding
operations.

And every time you change out one collet for another, you will
need to clean the taper and bore of the collet adaptor or some grit will
hold the next collet off-center so it will wind up no better, and
perhaps worse than before.

I would suggest that you not worry about the accuracy of the
collets until you *need* it. Normally, even the inexpensive collets are
significantly better that a 3-jaw chuck.

(Which reminds me, I have to get a taper attachment).

For what projects? And is one available for your lathe? You
may have to make one from scratch.

Another issue is that my set of 5C collets were packed in four
different kinds of packages, which would probably mean they are even
more inconsistent.

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...t=IMG_0165.jpg

Or perhaps they were selected as the best (or the worst) of what
came in. If the different packaging means different makers, it may
still not make much difference -- they may still all be pretty good.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jun 10, 1:26 am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-06-10, Searcher7 wrote:



On Jun 9, 4:24 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7

wrote:
I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

For those who have experience with the import(regular) collets can you
give me an idea of the kind of problems you've run into, if any, due
to collet inaccuracy? (Before I get the other 32 to complete my round
set).

And am I correct in assuming that even import(regular) collets
wouldn't be anywhere near 1/64th of an inch off of perfect?

Can I also assume that as long as the correct collet is used there
really shouldn't be any real wear?

[ ... ]

Unfortunately...far far too many importe (Asian) collets are under or
over sized. A 5C collet has at most..a .015 grip range..and most of them
are .006. Ive seen far too many of them that were in that 15 thou
range..but a .500 collet may open to .485, and close to .497....which
really doesnt help much when your stock is .502 +/- .004

Hardinge, Lyndex, Royal, etc etc and several other german or polish made
brands are Good stuff.

[ ... ]

Ok. So I should concentrate on getting common sizes from Hardinge,
Lyndex, and Royal. Do these manufacturers make collets for MT2, MT3,
and R8?

R8 -- yes. MT2 and MT3 are less common these days. Hardinge
*might* still make them, but probably not the others. And be sitting
down before you ask for the price of *any* Hardinge collet. :-)

That's the reason I got the imported collets to begin with. :-)

And R8 is not a work-holding collet -- it is a *tool-holding*
collet -- specifically end-mills.

Yes. I had decided to not get the R8 end mill holders and get the R8
collets instead.

As for the MT-2 and MT-3 -- the most likely place to find them
is from the same people who sell the import machine tools which
currently use them.

My mini lathe has a .787 spindle bore, so I figured I would get an
MT-3(3MT) set so I wouldn't need a collet chuck for that range up to
3/4".: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1948

And a set of R8 collets to cover the endmills for my mill/drill.:
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2872
I just have to determine what sizes are best to get that give me a
good range of options for end mills.

(But not necessarily the collets in these links, since they are also
imports).

I would have considered these if I had gotten that Vertex dividing
head: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2999
But that particular set only goes up to 1/2" anyway.

I'm not sure of what, if any MT2 collets I should get. (My lathe
tailstock and rotary table center bore are MT2).
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1752

As for 5C. I still have that "poor man's" 5C collet chuck, spin
indexer, hor/vert. collet fixture, and collet blocks.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=3842
I'm thinking 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 7/8", 1" "precision"
collets.(In round, square and hex).

Getting all these collets from a quality manufacturer will be tough.
(The various spindle and bore standards are killing me).

The discussion was about 5C collets, which are the ones which
come from many makers in many degrees of quality.

Also, I'm thinking that I probably should get new collect blocks also,
since the ones I have were picked up from the same seller I got the
import collets from.

Don't worry about it. The typical use of a collet block is not
going to require the accuracy that you want from a lathe spindle. The
most common use of the hex collet blocks is milling a hex head on a bolt
which you have made in an uncommon size. The same thing with a square
collet block -- making the screw heads found on older lathes for common
locking screws. The precision is not really that important. The block
and the collet is simply a convenient way of holding the workpiece,
especially if you don't have a dividing head with a 3-jaw chuck on it.

BTW. How accurate can one expect to make collet blocks for other sizes
where they are not available?

You can *expect* any degree of accuracy you can imagine.
Whether you will *get* it depends on your skill and the accuracy of the
machines you are using to make them.

Randy said that the problem he's found with the cheap collets is that
they are all undersized. If this is generally true I wonder if it
would be a plausible project correct the inaccuracies of at least some
of the imports. Of course, there will be concentricity as well as bore
size issues. (Which reminds me, I have to get a taper attachment).
Another issue is that my set of 5C collets were packed in four
different kinds of packages, which would probably mean they are even
more inconsistent.

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...t=IMG_0165.jpg

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:23:26 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:


R8 -- yes. MT2 and MT3 are less common these days. Hardinge
*might* still make them, but probably not the others. And be sitting
down before you ask for the price of *any* Hardinge collet. :-)

That's the reason I got the imported collets to begin with. :-)


Thats also the reason one can get GOOD pricing at times on Ebay, on
Hardinge (and the other good ones) collets.

And its a good time to start stocking up. So many factories have gone
tits up..there are a ****load of collets out there.

While Ive seen some worn collets, they have been worn still within the
holding range. And Ive picked em up for less than $5 each, in most
cases...$10 for 5-10 of them.

Just a heads up.

Gunner, cheap...errrr ......Frugal *******


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:13:30 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:

I entertained the idea of filling out the rest of my set of 5C collets
several years ago. Now I'm thinking about it again, but there is a
possible issue which I didn't really consider originally.

For those who have experience with the import(regular) collets can you
give me an idea of the kind of problems you've run into, if any, due
to collet inaccuracy? (Before I get the other 32 to complete my round
set).

And am I correct in assuming that even import(regular) collets
wouldn't be anywhere near 1/64th of an inch off of perfect?

Can I also assume that as long as the correct collet is used there
really shouldn't be any real wear?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


I have a full set of Travers tool collets, bought new 20+ years ago,
plus a few other imported collets, I've been replacing them with brand
name collets mostly Lyndex. The problem I've found with the cheap
ones is they are all undersize, you have to force a 1/2" rod into a
1/2" collet. With the Lyndex brand it will just slip in and hold
nicely.

A real PITA when you have TGP stock and don't want it all scratched up
shoving it in and out of the collet.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Jun 9, 9:16*am, Randy wrote:
...
...The problem I've found with the cheap
ones is they are all undersize, you have to force a 1/2" rod into a
1/2" collet. *With the Lyndex brand it will just slip in *and hold
nicely.
.....
Randy

It may not actually be undersized. See if the slits warped shut in
hardening. You can jam screwdrivers in to open them when you load or
remove the stock.

jsw

On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Jun 9, 9:16*am, Randy wrote:
...
...The problem I've found with the cheap
ones is they are all undersize, you have to force a 1/2" rod into a
1/2" collet. *With the Lyndex brand it will just slip in *and hold
nicely.
.....
Randy

It may not actually be undersized. See if the slits warped shut in
hardening. You can jam screwdrivers in to open them when you load or
remove the stock.

jsw

Been there, was doing that, it's a PITA.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Jun 10, 9:00*am, Randy wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
...
It may not actually be undersized. See if the slits warped shut in
hardening. You can jam screwdrivers in to open them when you load or
remove the stock.
jsw

Been there, *was doing that, it's a PITA.
Randy

It is, but more acceptable on the rarely used collets than the common
sizes. I'd buy good ones for 1/2" and 1" at least, probably also for
1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 5/8" and 3/4", and cheaper or used ones for the
other sizes. Those are the sizes of drill rod I keep on hand. A screw
thread held by a collet isn't going to run perfectly true anyway,
though that's a good way to clamp them without damage.

jsw