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OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better
price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or 27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair). Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run, are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow? Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
wrote in message ... I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or 27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair). Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run, are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow? Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated. I do not know much about A/C systems or vacuum pump repair, but I do know that you can not pull more than the local atmospheric pressure which changes with altitutde and weather. For example, in Denver it averages 24.8 mm Hg. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
anorton wrote:
wrote in message ... I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or 27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair). Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run, are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow? Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated. I do not know much about A/C systems or vacuum pump repair, but I do know that you can not pull more than the local atmospheric pressure which changes with altitutde and weather. For example, in Denver it averages 24.8 mm Hg. True. You'd almost want an absolute pressure meter (i.e. one that reads 24.8 mm Hg in Denver, and 0 in a perfect vacuum) rather than a relative one. Or be ready to adjust for altitude... -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
On May 11, 8:53*am, wrote:
I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better price off season). *Now I am ready to use it. *I added oil (did not replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. *I was able to pull 26 or 27 in of Hg of vacum. *As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair). Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a stronger vacuum)? * I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the pump with no success. * What other sort of maintanence might I need to do to the pump? *Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run, are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow? Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated. Oil will pick up all sorts of volatiles, I strongly recommend dumping the old stuff and putting in fresh. Keeping the intake and outlet sealed between sessions will help, too. You need vacuum pump oil, too, not just car oil. Just thought I'd mention that, you never know what some people will do... Manufacturers sometimes will have rebuild kits, I know Welch pumps do. Used vac pumps can be a crap-shoot, you never know what kind of service the thing's been in, once a month, once a week, 24/7, you just never know. If it's been in the usual repair garage, nobody's changed the oil since it's been bought new. Don't be too quick to blame the pump, a car A/C system has lots of leak potential, until you've replaced all the seals, you won't know what you've got. Attach the vac gauge directly to the pump and test it that way. Refrigerant sniffers have come waaay down, that would be my first choice for tracing leaks. Even HF has one, not that that's what I have. Stan |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... anorton wrote: wrote in message ... I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or 27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair). Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run, are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow? Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated. I do not know much about A/C systems or vacuum pump repair, but I do know that you can not pull more than the local atmospheric pressure which changes with altitutde and weather. For example, in Denver it averages 24.8 mm Hg. True. You'd almost want an absolute pressure meter (i.e. one that reads 24.8 mm Hg in Denver, and 0 in a perfect vacuum) rather than a relative one. Or be ready to adjust for altitude... -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com Oops, my goof. That should be 24.8 in. Hg in Denver. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
In order to be sure you've got all the moisture out of the
system, you really need a micron gage. Your manifold gages aren't able to read the fine measurements you need. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message ... I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or 27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair). Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run, are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow? Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley in
: In order to be sure you've got all the moisture out of the system, you really need a micron gage. Your manifold gages aren't able to read the fine measurements you need. Stormy, after the refrigeration sigs, I never thought I would see you mention HVAC again. Yes... See my post (made after yours) about why/what/how. LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message .70... interesting stuff snipped ---------- Quick answer -- no... you can't tell with mechanical gauges. LLoyd interesting post - I wonder if where you live matters I have repaired a number of cars where the AC system is empty - mostly 944s in fact - swap the seal on the pump put in some of the new oil for R134, and fill - works fine. on one that exploded a hose in 130 deg weather, just replaced the hose (a few weeks later), and it worked fine. Never saw any moisture effects. So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with not doing all that stuff? |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Bill Noble" wrote in message ... "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message .70... interesting stuff snipped ---------- Quick answer -- no... you can't tell with mechanical gauges. LLoyd interesting post - I wonder if where you live matters I have repaired a number of cars where the AC system is empty - mostly 944s in fact - swap the seal on the pump put in some of the new oil for R134, and fill - works fine. on one that exploded a hose in 130 deg weather, just replaced the hose (a few weeks later), and it worked fine. Never saw any moisture effects. So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with not doing all that stuff? Possibly the systems you worked on were clear of moisture before you opened them, and you had them open for just a short time, so the amount of moisture in the system was minimal. I do commercial HVAC service and all manufacturers recommend pulling a vacuum of 400 microns or lower to remove moisture from the system. If the system is new, and relatively clean you can reach 400 microns in minutes. On the other hand if the system has moisture in it it can take hours, or even days to pull a system down to 400 microns. One time I vac'd a system for about 60 hours before it would hold less than 400 microns. The year before another service company replaced the compressor that failed. I replaced the compressor a second time, ran the vacuum pump for about 24 hours, changed the oil on my vacuum pump, purged the system with nitrogen and pumped it for about 24 more hours, changed oil on my vacuum pump again, purged the system with nitrogen again, them pumped for about 12 more hours. At this time the vacuum held at about 300 microns. That second compressor has been running for over 6 years. Greg |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Bill Noble" fired this volley in
: So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with not doing all that stuff? This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure side of the compressor. It had been run like that, recharged, run, recharged over and over without fixing the leak. So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist of both air and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down was partly due to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried with a long-enough pumpdown). LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
What's a "refrigeration sig" and why would it have any
effect on my posting? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... Stormy, after the refrigeration sigs, I never thought I would see you mention HVAC again. Yes... See my post (made after yours) about why/what/how. LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
The better pumps will turn liquid water into vapor, and draw
the vapor out. A dry system is essential to running properly. The HF air thing is better than no vacuum, but not any where near as good as a real vacuum pump. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "JR North" wrote in message ... The cheap Delavel-type compressed air powered pumps easily pull 29". HF has one for $10 or so. JR Dweller in the cellar |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
I had thought filter driers were chemical system. And that
you couldn't restore them. Maybe on cars, you can? Yes, I easily imagine it drawing the system full of humidity. And of course, the compressor oil is hydoscopic. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure side of the compressor. It had been run like that, recharged, run, recharged over and over without fixing the leak. So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist of both air and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down was partly due to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried with a long-enough pumpdown). LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
Thank you all.
To the poster that mentioned the air compressor veturi type of vac gage - I used one of those a few years ago when I serviced the A/C on my wife's car. A poorly positioned clip chaffed thru a tube on the condensor. I found that the pump effectiveness was very dependant on ambient (or engine compartment temp). If I ran the engine to temp and then used the venturi vac pump, I could hear as moisture droplets were pulled out (I had replaced the filter along with the condensor). I never felt confident that I pulled adequate vacuum (never saw 29 in of Hg on the gage), but after 2 seasons, the A/C is still functioning well in her Saturn. So what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage? After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450. These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. I found one gage for $137 http://www.testersandtools.com/Robin...51214350087963. I expect to use this equipment once every 2 to 3 years. Are there lower cost gages out there? I am a bit leary of a used gage - concered about a used gage calibration / function. Would a dedicated vacuum gage such as this: http://www.valuetesters.com/Yellow-J...cuum-Gauge.php be better than relying on the manifold gage? If so, I would need to plumb it into the R134 manifold or connect it to my old R12/R22 manifold gage set and connect that to the other port on the A/C system during drawn down. With all the money that I will be spending on A/C parts, I do not have a lot of money left over for additional tools. FWIW, my '91 F150 has suffered "black death". This Saturday I am going to play around with flushing the Condenser and Evap (presuming that I can get the broken off orifice tube out of the evaporator - was using an orifice removal tool and the end broke off anyway) but realistically I anticipate replacing condensor, evaporator and suction/ pressure hose (with integral muffler) along with the accumultor and compressor; so I would be pulling a vacuum on virtually a new A/C circuit. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley
in : I had thought filter driers were chemical system. And that you couldn't restore them. Maybe on cars, you can? Yes, I easily imagine it drawing the system full of humidity. And of course, the compressor oil is hydoscopic. Some are calcium chloride-based, and only baking will dry them. Many contain "molecular seives". They're ceramic pellets about the size of #6 shot that have precisely-sized pores that will only admit and hold water molecules, while rejecting or releasing other substances. They can be "recharged" either by baking or by holding a hard vacuum on them for a time. And yes, the oil is quite able to absorb a quantity of water -- in fact, that's part of its duty in a system. Water not in vapor form, and entrained like that isn't nearly as harmful to the system as hot vapor in contact with chloro/fluoro-carbons, or free liquid. LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley in
: What's a "refrigeration sig" and why would it have any effect on my posting? SIG="special interest group". A newsgroup, in this case. The guys over there are pretty full of their own importance. LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
fired this volley in news:24d5204a-c0fb-4cfe-9aba-
: o what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage? After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450. These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. I found one gage for $137 I got the Robinaire model you cited for $97 from Network Tool Warehouse -- http://www.ntxtools.com . They frequently have really hot deals on refrigeration equipment. Apparently, they buy new stuff from factories, but also do large buys from distress sales, and offer the materials at pretty spectacular prices. LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
On May 12, 7:21*am, wrote:
Thank you all. To the poster that mentioned the air compressor veturi type of vac gage - I used one of those a few years ago when I serviced the A/C on my wife's car. *A poorly positioned clip chaffed thru a tube on the condensor. *I found that the pump effectiveness was very dependant on ambient (or engine compartment temp). *If I ran the engine to temp and then used the venturi vac pump, I could hear as moisture droplets were pulled out (I had replaced the filter along with the condensor). *I never felt confident that I pulled adequate vacuum (never saw 29 in of Hg on the gage), but after 2 seasons, the A/C is still functioning well in her Saturn. So what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage? After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450. These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. *I found one gage for $137http://www.testersandtools.com/Robinair-14010A-Thermistor-Vacuum-Gaug.... I expect to use this equipment once every 2 to 3 years. Are there lower cost gages out there? *I am a bit leary of a used gage - concered about a used gage calibration / function. *Would a dedicated vacuum gage such as this: *http://www.valuetesters.com/Yellow-J...cuum-Gauge.php be better than relying on the manifold gage? *If so, I would need to plumb it into the R134 manifold or connect it to my old R12/R22 manifold gage set and connect that to the other port on the A/C system during drawn down. *With all the money that I will be spending on A/C parts, I do not have a lot of money left over for additional tools. FWIW, my '91 F150 has suffered "black death". This Saturday I am going to play around with flushing the Condenser and Evap (presuming that I can get the broken off orifice tube out of the evaporator - was using an orifice removal tool and the end broke off anyway) but realistically I anticipate replacing condensor, evaporator and suction/ pressure hose (with integral muffler) along with the accumultor and compressor; so I would be pulling *a vacuum on virtually a new A/C circuit. Don't overlook a U-Pullit joint as a source of used parts. I've gotten a lot of A/C related parts for cheap, whole compressors for $7 when all I needed was clutch parts, clips, clamps and other hardware. If you like living dangerously, you can salvage condensors and evaporators and flush those instead of your original contaminated parts. Very, very cheap compared with the cost of new. Also you can learn how-to on wrecks instead of messing up on your own stuff. I've rebuilt the compressors with new gaskets and seals and come out way ahead. Stan |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
I'd not heard that term used. Thanks for explaining.
There was a Dave From Illinois, who used to talk about the DG (discussion group). Fundy Dave used to post on alternating havoc usenet list, and rebuke us all as reprobates. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... "Stormin Mormon" fired this volley in : What's a "refrigeration sig" and why would it have any effect on my posting? SIG="special interest group". A newsgroup, in this case. The guys over there are pretty full of their own importance. LLoyd |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
On May 12, 7:19*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: "Bill Noble" fired this volley : So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? *Note, I am not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with not doing all that stuff? This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure side of the compressor. *It had been run like that, recharged, run, recharged over and over without fixing the leak. So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every time it ran out of refrigerant. *In Florida, those consist of both air and prodigious quantities of humidity. *The long pull-down was partly due to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried with a long-enough pumpdown). LLoyd This must have been a cheaper vehicle. Most vehicles are built with a pressure switch in the low side which shuts the system down long before it pulls a vacuum on the low side. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Greg O" wrote in message ... "Bill Noble" wrote in message ... "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message .70... interesting stuff snipped ---------- Quick answer -- no... you can't tell with mechanical gauges. LLoyd interesting post - I wonder if where you live matters I have repaired a number of cars where the AC system is empty - mostly 944s in fact - swap the seal on the pump put in some of the new oil for R134, and fill - works fine. on one that exploded a hose in 130 deg weather, just replaced the hose (a few weeks later), and it worked fine. Never saw any moisture effects. So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with not doing all that stuff? Possibly the systems you worked on were clear of moisture before you opened them, and you had them open for just a short time, so the amount of moisture in the system was minimal. useful story snipped In my particular case, at least one of these cars was open for several weeks while I sent the compressor out for repair, the one with the exploded hose was open for at least a week. I think the drier climate, and the fact that I wasn't operating the compressor with the system open might explain some of it - still, the very different results surprises me. I have pulled a vac (no, I don't have one of the "good" gauges) and just let the pump run overnight on one system - I didn't notice any improvement, but it wasn't worse either, compared to the ones that didn't get this treatment. On my 59 cad, the car was empty of freeon for probably 30 years - I added freon and it worked (but leaked down after a year or so, I haven't recharged it in a long time) - but it was stored (in very poor shape) near Oildale - a very very dry area. I wonder - maybe the careful treatment for moisture applies only when the humidity is above 5%? 10%? |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... "Bill Noble" fired this volley in : So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with not doing all that stuff? This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure side of the compressor. It had been run like that, recharged, run, recharged over and over without fixing the leak. So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist of both air and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down was partly due to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried with a long-enough pumpdown). LLoyd Florida - the place where you can walk into the ocean and not notice the change in humidity - that explains a lot |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
Bill Noble wrote: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70... "Bill Noble" fired this volley in : So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with not doing all that stuff? This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure side of the compressor. It had been run like that, recharged, run, recharged over and over without fixing the leak. So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist of both air and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down was partly due to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried with a long-enough pumpdown). LLoyd Florida - the place where you can walk into the ocean and not notice the change in humidity - that explains a lot. BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
On May 12, 10:29*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: fired this volley in news:24d5204a-c0fb-4cfe-9aba- : o what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage? After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450. These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. *I found one gage for $137 I got the Robinaire model you cited for $97 from Network Tool Warehouse --http://www.ntxtools.com. *They frequently have really hot deals on refrigeration equipment. *Apparently, they buy new stuff from factories, but also do large buys from distress sales, and offer the materials at pretty spectacular prices. LLoyd Right now the least expensive micron/thermistor gage at Network Tool Warehouse is $157. I'm thinking that I'll have to take the risk and do without (doing a long evacuation and changing the vac pump oil once during the process), knowing that the accumulator/dryer will be new. Thanks for the link - I did order an inexpensive flush gun, a few extra qts of vacuum pump oil and a 134A fitting for my vac pump. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? jk |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground will protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you ever certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's ESD procedure and ISO 9001 process? -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground will protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you ever certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's ESD procedure and ISO 9001 process? LAND SHARK !!!!! come on - has almost everyone lost their sense of humor? |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
Bill Noble wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground will protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you ever certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's ESD procedure and ISO 9001 process? LAND SHARK !!!!! come on - has almost everyone lost their sense of humor? EBAY SHARK !!!!! Laugh all you want. You auctioned off your mind & soul on eBay, anyway. A big part of my career in electronics dealt with mission critical systems, and dealing with idiots who thought it was funny to damage them. Would you like to live downrange of a missile launch, if the command destruct receivers we built were defective? Or need accurate weather data to save your life and the earth stations we designed & built for NOAA were ESD damaged and they failed due to poor ESD control? Here's some humor for you: Lick the drill bit in your drill press while it's running to save money on cutting fluid. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Bill Noble wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground will protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you ever certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's ESD procedure and ISO 9001 process? LAND SHARK !!!!! come on - has almost everyone lost their sense of humor? EBAY SHARK !!!!! Laugh all you want. You auctioned off your mind & soul on eBay, anyway. A big part of my career in electronics dealt with mission critical systems, and dealing with idiots who thought it was funny to damage them. Would you like to live downrange of a missile launch, if the command destruct receivers we built were defective? Or need accurate weather data to save your life and the earth stations we designed & built for NOAA were ESD damaged and they failed due to poor ESD control? Here's some humor for you: Lick the drill bit in your drill press while it's running to save money on cutting fluid. MT - I guess you really do lack all sense of humor - that is very sad, and you have my sympathy - you will perhaps live longer by not responding to my posts if you cannot understand them. I am sorry for you, truly sorry. I will not engage in a debate with you. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
Don Foreman wrote: On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD. How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave lecetronics working, but damaged? -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
Bill Noble wrote: MT - I guess you really do lack all sense of humor - that is very sad, and you have my sympathy - you will perhaps live longer by not responding to my posts if you cannot understand them. I am sorry for you, truly sorry. I will not engage in a debate with you. Yawn. A lot of people love my sense of humor. Some on this group email me quite often, and I reply with jokes they say they liked. I've never seen anything from you that was remotely funny. You never engage in debate. You just expect people to kiss your ass, and that won't happen. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
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On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD. How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave lecetronics working, but damaged? Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge. Joe |
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Joe wrote: On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD. How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave lecetronics working, but damaged? Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge. And the sun is a flashlight? I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of antistatic mat on your roof. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
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On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Joe wrote: On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD. How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave lecetronics working, but damaged? Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge. And the sun is a flashlight? Not quite; the sun is a big fusion reactor, although, come to think of it, both give off light by incandescence (assuming the flashlight is the old style). I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of antistatic mat on your roof. As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my workbench. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how and where I will mount it. I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant. Joe |
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Joe wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Joe wrote: On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD. How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave lecetronics working, but damaged? Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge. And the sun is a flashlight? Not quite; the sun is a big fusion reactor, although, come to think of it, both give off light by incandescence (assuming the flashlight is the old style). Other than scale, they are both portable lights with a limited life span. I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of antistatic mat on your roof. As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my workbench. And? It won't prevent ESD (Electro Static Damage) to elctronics on your bench. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how and where I will mount it. I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant. Are those roof panels bonded & grounded? If not, you will have a real mess if lightning strikes. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
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On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:02:33 -0400, Joe wrote
the following: On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of antistatic mat on your roof. As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my workbench. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how and where I will mount it. Cool. I'd never seen one until you mentioned it. Here's a hand-crafted one: http://www.metalhands.com/lightningrod.htm I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant. It's properly grounded? -- Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770 'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials' |
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On Tue, 18 May 2010 08:45:12 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Joe wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Joe wrote: On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: jk wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH, ESD isn't a big problem here. Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research centers is? Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD. How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave lecetronics working, but damaged? Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge. And the sun is a flashlight? Not quite; the sun is a big fusion reactor, although, come to think of it, both give off light by incandescence (assuming the flashlight is the old style). Other than scale, they are both portable lights with a limited life span. I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of antistatic mat on your roof. As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my workbench. And? It won't prevent ESD (Electro Static Damage) to elctronics on your bench. But that issue wasn't part of your original reply to me. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how and where I will mount it. I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant. Are those roof panels bonded & grounded? If not, you will have a real mess if lightning strikes. Yeahbut, you didn't explicitly stipulate grounding in your reply, and I make no claims as to the effectiveness of the metal roof in any other sense than how well it works at shielding my buildings from cumulonimbus discharge. g Joe |
OT Vacuum pump maintenance / repair
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:35:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:02:33 -0400, Joe wrote the following: On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of antistatic mat on your roof. As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my workbench. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how and where I will mount it. Cool. I'd never seen one until you mentioned it. Here's a hand-crafted one: http://www.metalhands.com/lightningrod.htm Sweet. That is a really imaginative design - sorta steampunk in fact. Thanks for the link. I will try to get a picture or two of mine and post them somewhere (got a good photo sharing site?). I've seen lots of 2 or 3 foot lightning rods, but this is the only one I've seen that is so tall. The cable that was used to connect the rods to the ground was often a thing of beauty as well. There is a good example in a park near Wilmington, DE that protects a beautiful oak tree; it is a very thick braided copper cable that divides off to follow each major limb. The park formerly was the private garden of one of the DuPont women, so she had the werewithal to provide the care that such a specimen deserved. I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant. It's properly grounded? Nah. Joe |
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