I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better
price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not
replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked
the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or
27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of
Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair).

Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a
stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the
pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to
do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run,
are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow?
Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated.

wrote in message
...
I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better
price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not
replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked
the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or
27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of
Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair).

Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a
stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the
pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to
do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run,
are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow?
Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated.

I do not know much about A/C systems or vacuum pump repair, but I do know
that you can not pull more than the local atmospheric pressure which changes
with altitutde and weather. For example, in Denver it averages 24.8 mm Hg.

anorton wrote:

wrote in message
...
I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better
price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not
replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked
the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or
27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of
Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair).

Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a
stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the
pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to
do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run,
are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow?
Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated.

I do not know much about A/C systems or vacuum pump repair, but I do
know that you can not pull more than the local atmospheric pressure
which changes with altitutde and weather. For example, in Denver it
averages 24.8 mm Hg.

True. You'd almost want an absolute pressure meter (i.e. one that reads
24.8 mm Hg in Denver, and 0 in a perfect vacuum) rather than a relative one.

Or be ready to adjust for altitude...

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On May 11, 8:53*am, wrote:
I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better
price off season). *Now I am ready to use it. *I added oil (did not
replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked
the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. *I was able to pull 26 or
27 in of Hg of vacum. *As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of
Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair).

Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a
stronger vacuum)? * I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the
pump with no success. * What other sort of maintanence might I need to
do to the pump? *Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run,
are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow?
Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated.

Oil will pick up all sorts of volatiles, I strongly recommend dumping
the old stuff and putting in fresh. Keeping the intake and outlet
sealed between sessions will help, too. You need vacuum pump oil,
too, not just car oil. Just thought I'd mention that, you never know
what some people will do...

Manufacturers sometimes will have rebuild kits, I know Welch pumps
do. Used vac pumps can be a crap-shoot, you never know what kind of
service the thing's been in, once a month, once a week, 24/7, you just
never know. If it's been in the usual repair garage, nobody's changed
the oil since it's been bought new.

Don't be too quick to blame the pump, a car A/C system has lots of
leak potential, until you've replaced all the seals, you won't know
what you've got. Attach the vac gauge directly to the pump and test
it that way. Refrigerant sniffers have come waaay down, that would be
my first choice for tracing leaks. Even HF has one, not that that's
what I have.

Stan

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news
anorton wrote:

wrote in message
...
I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better
price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not
replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked
the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or
27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of
Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair).

Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a
stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the
pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to
do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run,
are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow?
Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated.

I do not know much about A/C systems or vacuum pump repair, but I do know
that you can not pull more than the local atmospheric pressure which
changes with altitutde and weather. For example, in Denver it averages
24.8 mm Hg.

True. You'd almost want an absolute pressure meter (i.e. one that reads
24.8 mm Hg in Denver, and 0 in a perfect vacuum) rather than a relative
one.

Or be ready to adjust for altitude...

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Oops, my goof. That should be 24.8 in. Hg in Denver.

In order to be sure you've got all the moisture out of the
system, you really need a micron gage. Your manifold gages
aren't able to read the fine measurements you need.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter
(much better
price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil
(did not
replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and
hooked
the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to
pull 26 or
27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to
pull 29 in of
Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair).

Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's
performance (pull a
stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded
view of the
pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might
I need to
do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting
it run,
are there any other proceedures that I should / need to
follow?
Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated.

fired this volley in news:2c4abdd1-d0f0-40dd-a32d-
:

I purchased a used Robinair 15102-A vac pump last winter (much better
price off season). Now I am ready to use it. I added oil (did not
replace the old oil since I was doing a test evacuation) and hooked
the vac pump up to the vehicle's A/C system. I was able to pull 26 or
27 in of Hg of vacum. As I understand it I will need to pull 29 in of
Hg to properly evacuate the A/C system (after repair).

Will changing the oil have an effect on the pump's performance (pull a
stronger vacuum)? I searched for a manual or an exploded view of the
pump with no success. What other sort of maintanence might I need to
do to the pump? Other than hooking the pump up and letting it run,
are there any other proceedures that I should / need to follow?
Suggestions / links to info very much appreciated.

You _cannot_ determine the degree of vacuum necessary to properly dry and
fully evacuate a system with only mechanical gauges. You need a
thermistor-style vacuum gauge. They aren't expensive.

I'll give you a scenario as to why. Yesterday (yes, actually) one of my
employees asked if I could check out her Toyota's AC (which was blowing
hot). yep. I grabbed the manifold gauges, the 134A adapter fittings,
and the vacuum pump (Robinaire 6cfm). New oil, by the way. Always new
oil -- AFTER every pull-down. Always. Never not. No excuses. ALWAYS...
(did I say, "always, every time, no excuses, ALWAYS? If not -- ALWAYS,
after EVERY pull-down on ANY system of ANY size. Oil is cheap, pumps
aren't and inadequate pull-downs even less-so).

ANyway...

She complained that several people had "charged" her system using one-
hose taps, and it was blowing hot. So I told her to go get two cans of
134A, and let me just pull it down. If it had a leak, we'd know. She
could get the leak fixed professionally (I don't DO auto repairs except
on my own vehicles).

I pumped the goop out of her system (full of leak-check and excess oil),
then hooked up the pump and thermistor gauge, and let 'er run. I was
hoping for 200 microns (mercury column) of vacuum. After three hours, it
wouldn't drop below 400. That's sort-of a sign of a leak, but I had a
clue that said, "no".

By the way, do you know what 400-micron vacuum looks like on a mechanical
gauge? (clue -- about the same as 1000-micron vacuum)

ANyway... the average vacuum wouldn't drop below 400, but the thermistor
gauge would occasionally dip to 275, then suddenly JUMP back to 400.
That's not the way they normally work -- they move _gradually_ from
point-to-point. They never jump -- unless. Unless there were droplets
of water entrained in oil in the system, and they were progressively
exploding into vapor, literally one-at-a-time.

Another clue was that the oil in the pump sight glass was growing cloudy.
It never does that on a healthy system. Only on one with lots of water
in it.

BTW... do you know what water looks like in a mechanical gauge? (clue --
about the same as no water, only there's an important distinction
concerning how the system will work with or without it, and the gauges
don't tell you that)

So... we let it run; All of 6 hours plus, actually. It pulled
"droplets" for almost the whole time, gauge slowly moving down to 275,
then jumping up to 400 again suddenly. Then, in the last 30 minutes, the
thermistor gauge started indicating improvements. Eventually, it held 50
microns on pull, and rose to only 200 after being off the pump for 10
minutes. That's a good pull. No air, no water, nothing to interfere.

A quick re-charge was all that was left -- and you already know how to do
that.

Quick answer -- no... you can't tell with mechanical gauges.

LLoyd

"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley in
:

In order to be sure you've got all the moisture out of the
system, you really need a micron gage. Your manifold gages
aren't able to read the fine measurements you need.


Stormy, after the refrigeration sigs, I never thought I would see you
mention HVAC again.

Yes... See my post (made after yours) about why/what/how.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...

interesting stuff snipped ----------

Quick answer -- no... you can't tell with mechanical gauges.

LLoyd

interesting post - I wonder if where you live matters

I have repaired a number of cars where the AC system is empty - mostly 944s
in fact - swap the seal on the pump put in some of the new oil for R134, and
fill - works fine. on one that exploded a hose in 130 deg weather, just
replaced the hose (a few weeks later), and it worked fine. Never saw any
moisture effects. So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier
climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning your
advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can get away with
not doing all that stuff?

"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...

interesting stuff snipped ----------

Quick answer -- no... you can't tell with mechanical gauges.

LLoyd

interesting post - I wonder if where you live matters

I have repaired a number of cars where the AC system is empty - mostly
944s in fact - swap the seal on the pump put in some of the new oil for
R134, and fill - works fine. on one that exploded a hose in 130 deg
weather, just replaced the hose (a few weeks later), and it worked fine.
Never saw any moisture effects. So, why does your experience differ?
could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am
not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering
why I can get away with not doing all that stuff?

Possibly the systems you worked on were clear of moisture before you opened
them, and you had them open for just a short time, so the amount of moisture
in the system was minimal.

I do commercial HVAC service and all manufacturers recommend pulling a
vacuum of 400 microns or lower to remove moisture from the system. If the
system is new, and relatively clean you can reach 400 microns in minutes. On
the other hand if the system has moisture in it it can take hours, or even
days to pull a system down to 400 microns.

One time I vac'd a system for about 60 hours before it would hold less than
400 microns. The year before another service company replaced the compressor
that failed. I replaced the compressor a second time, ran the vacuum pump
for about 24 hours, changed the oil on my vacuum pump, purged the system
with nitrogen and pumped it for about 24 more hours, changed oil on my
vacuum pump again, purged the system with nitrogen again, them pumped for
about 12 more hours. At this time the vacuum held at about 300 microns. That
second compressor has been running for over 6 years.
Greg

"Bill Noble" fired this volley in
:

So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier
climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning
your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can
get away with not doing all that stuff?


This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure
side of the compressor. It had been run like that, recharged, run,
recharged over and over without fixing the leak.

So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every
time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist of both air
and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down was partly due
to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried
with a long-enough pumpdown).

LLoyd

What's a "refrigeration sig" and why would it have any
effect on my posting?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote
in message
. 3.70...

Stormy, after the refrigeration sigs, I never thought I
would see you
mention HVAC again.

Yes... See my post (made after yours) about why/what/how.

LLoyd

The better pumps will turn liquid water into vapor, and draw
the vapor out. A dry system is essential to running
properly.

The HF air thing is better than no vacuum, but not any where
near as good as a real vacuum pump.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JR North" wrote in message
...
The cheap Delavel-type compressed air powered pumps easily
pull 29".
HF has one for $10 or so.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

I had thought filter driers were chemical system. And that
you couldn't restore them. Maybe on cars, you can?

Yes, I easily imagine it drawing the system full of
humidity. And of course, the compressor oil is hydoscopic.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote
in message
. 3.70...

This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the
low pressure
side of the compressor. It had been run like that,
recharged, run,
recharged over and over without fixing the leak.

So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less
continuously every
time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist
of both air
and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down
was partly due
to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can
be re-dried
with a long-enough pumpdown).

LLoyd

Thank you all.

To the poster that mentioned the air compressor veturi type of vac
gage - I used one of those a few years ago when I serviced the A/C on
my wife's car. A poorly positioned clip chaffed thru a tube on the
condensor. I found that the pump effectiveness was very dependant on
ambient (or engine compartment temp). If I ran the engine to temp and
then used the venturi vac pump, I could hear as moisture droplets were
pulled out (I had replaced the filter along with the condensor). I
never felt confident that I pulled adequate vacuum (never saw 29 in of
Hg on the gage), but after 2 seasons, the A/C is still functioning
well in her Saturn.

So what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage?
After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450.
These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. I found
one gage for $137
http://www.testersandtools.com/Robin...51214350087963.
I expect to use this equipment once every 2 to 3 years.

Are there lower cost gages out there? I am a bit leary of a used gage
- concered about a used gage calibration / function. Would a
dedicated vacuum gage such as this: http://www.valuetesters.com/Yellow-J...cuum-Gauge.php
be better than relying on the manifold gage? If so, I would need to
plumb it into the R134 manifold or connect it to my old R12/R22
manifold gage set and connect that to the other port on the A/C system
during drawn down. With all the money that I will be spending on A/C
parts, I do not have a lot of money left over for additional tools.

FWIW, my '91 F150 has suffered "black death". This Saturday I am going
to play around with flushing the Condenser and Evap (presuming that I
can get the broken off orifice tube out of the evaporator - was using
an orifice removal tool and the end broke off anyway) but
realistically I anticipate replacing condensor, evaporator and suction/
pressure hose (with integral muffler) along with the accumultor and
compressor; so I would be pulling a vacuum on virtually a new A/C
circuit.

"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley
in :


I had thought filter driers were chemical system. And that
you couldn't restore them. Maybe on cars, you can?

Yes, I easily imagine it drawing the system full of
humidity. And of course, the compressor oil is hydoscopic.

Some are calcium chloride-based, and only baking will dry them. Many
contain "molecular seives". They're ceramic pellets about the size of #6
shot that have precisely-sized pores that will only admit and hold water
molecules, while rejecting or releasing other substances. They can be
"recharged" either by baking or by holding a hard vacuum on them for a
time.

And yes, the oil is quite able to absorb a quantity of water -- in fact,
that's part of its duty in a system. Water not in vapor form, and
entrained like that isn't nearly as harmful to the system as hot vapor in
contact with chloro/fluoro-carbons, or free liquid.

LLoyd

"Stormin Mormon" fired this volley in
:

What's a "refrigeration sig" and why would it have any
effect on my posting?



SIG="special interest group". A newsgroup, in this case. The guys over
there are pretty full of their own importance.

LLoyd

fired this volley in news:24d5204a-c0fb-4cfe-9aba-
:

o what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage?
After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450.
These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. I found
one gage for $137


I got the Robinaire model you cited for $97 from Network Tool Warehouse
-- http://www.ntxtools.com . They frequently have really hot deals on
refrigeration equipment. Apparently, they buy new stuff from factories,
but also do large buys from distress sales, and offer the materials at
pretty spectacular prices.

LLoyd

On May 12, 7:21*am, wrote:
Thank you all.

To the poster that mentioned the air compressor veturi type of vac
gage - I used one of those a few years ago when I serviced the A/C on
my wife's car. *A poorly positioned clip chaffed thru a tube on the
condensor. *I found that the pump effectiveness was very dependant on
ambient (or engine compartment temp). *If I ran the engine to temp and
then used the venturi vac pump, I could hear as moisture droplets were
pulled out (I had replaced the filter along with the condensor). *I
never felt confident that I pulled adequate vacuum (never saw 29 in of
Hg on the gage), but after 2 seasons, the A/C is still functioning
well in her Saturn.

So what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage?
After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450.
These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. *I found
one gage for $137http://www.testersandtools.com/Robinair-14010A-Thermistor-Vacuum-Gaug....
I expect to use this equipment once every 2 to 3 years.

Are there lower cost gages out there? *I am a bit leary of a used gage
- concered about a used gage calibration / function. *Would a
dedicated vacuum gage such as this: *http://www.valuetesters.com/Yellow-J...cuum-Gauge.php
be better than relying on the manifold gage? *If so, I would need to
plumb it into the R134 manifold or connect it to my old R12/R22
manifold gage set and connect that to the other port on the A/C system
during drawn down. *With all the money that I will be spending on A/C
parts, I do not have a lot of money left over for additional tools.

FWIW, my '91 F150 has suffered "black death". This Saturday I am going
to play around with flushing the Condenser and Evap (presuming that I
can get the broken off orifice tube out of the evaporator - was using
an orifice removal tool and the end broke off anyway) but
realistically I anticipate replacing condensor, evaporator and suction/
pressure hose (with integral muffler) along with the accumultor and
compressor; so I would be pulling *a vacuum on virtually a new A/C
circuit.

Don't overlook a U-Pullit joint as a source of used parts. I've
gotten a lot of A/C related parts for cheap, whole compressors for $7
when all I needed was clutch parts, clips, clamps and other hardware.
If you like living dangerously, you can salvage condensors and
evaporators and flush those instead of your original contaminated
parts. Very, very cheap compared with the cost of new. Also you can
learn how-to on wrecks instead of messing up on your own stuff. I've
rebuilt the compressors with new gaskets and seals and come out way
ahead.

Stan

I'd not heard that term used. Thanks for explaining.

There was a Dave From Illinois, who used to talk about the
DG (discussion group). Fundy Dave used to post on
alternating havoc usenet list, and rebuke us all as
reprobates.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote
in message
. 3.70...
"Stormin Mormon" fired
this volley in
:

What's a "refrigeration sig" and why would it have any
effect on my posting?



SIG="special interest group". A newsgroup, in this case.
The guys over
there are pretty full of their own importance.

LLoyd

On May 12, 7:19*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Bill Noble" fired this volley :

So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier
climate, or could it be something else? *Note, I am not questioning
your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can
get away with not doing all that stuff?

This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure
side of the compressor. *It had been run like that, recharged, run,
recharged over and over without fixing the leak.

So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every
time it ran out of refrigerant. *In Florida, those consist of both air
and prodigious quantities of humidity. *The long pull-down was partly due
to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried
with a long-enough pumpdown).

LLoyd



This must have been a cheaper vehicle. Most vehicles are built with a
pressure switch in the low side which shuts the system down long
before it pulls a vacuum on the low side.

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...

interesting stuff snipped ----------

Quick answer -- no... you can't tell with mechanical gauges.

LLoyd

interesting post - I wonder if where you live matters

I have repaired a number of cars where the AC system is empty - mostly
944s in fact - swap the seal on the pump put in some of the new oil for
R134, and fill - works fine. on one that exploded a hose in 130 deg
weather, just replaced the hose (a few weeks later), and it worked fine.
Never saw any moisture effects. So, why does your experience differ?
could it be a drier climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am
not questioning your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering
why I can get away with not doing all that stuff?

Possibly the systems you worked on were clear of moisture before you
opened them, and you had them open for just a short time, so the amount of
moisture in the system was minimal.


useful story snipped

In my particular case, at least one of these cars was open for several weeks
while I sent the compressor out for repair, the one with the exploded hose
was open for at least a week. I think the drier climate, and the fact that
I wasn't operating the compressor with the system open might explain some of
it - still, the very different results surprises me. I have pulled a vac
(no, I don't have one of the "good" gauges) and just let the pump run
overnight on one system - I didn't notice any improvement, but it wasn't
worse either, compared to the ones that didn't get this treatment.

On my 59 cad, the car was empty of freeon for probably 30 years - I added
freon and it worked (but leaked down after a year or so, I haven't recharged
it in a long time) - but it was stored (in very poor shape) near Oildale - a
very very dry area.

I wonder - maybe the careful treatment for moisture applies only when the
humidity is above 5%? 10%?

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bill Noble" fired this volley in
:

So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier
climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning
your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can
get away with not doing all that stuff?


This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure
side of the compressor. It had been run like that, recharged, run,
recharged over and over without fixing the leak.

So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every
time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist of both air
and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down was partly due
to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried
with a long-enough pumpdown).

LLoyd

Florida - the place where you can walk into the ocean and not notice the
change in humidity - that explains a lot

Bill Noble wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bill Noble" fired this volley in
:

So, why does your experience differ? could it be a drier
climate, or could it be something else? Note, I am not questioning
your advice/report, it makes perfect sense, I'm wondering why I can
get away with not doing all that stuff?


This particular vehicle had - at one time - a leak on the low pressure
side of the compressor. It had been run like that, recharged, run,
recharged over and over without fixing the leak.

So it was sucking in non-condensables more or less continuously every
time it ran out of refrigerant. In Florida, those consist of both air
and prodigious quantities of humidity. The long pull-down was partly due
to sucking the moisture out of the filter-drier (which can be re-dried
with a long-enough pumpdown).

LLoyd

Florida - the place where you can walk into the ocean and not notice the
change in humidity - that explains a lot.


BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On May 12, 10:29*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
fired this volley in news:24d5204a-c0fb-4cfe-9aba-
:

o what is considered an inexpensive micron / thermistor vacuum gage?
After a quick search most of these gages run between $200 to $450.
These would appear to be gages for daily professional use. *I found
one gage for $137

I got the Robinaire model you cited for $97 from Network Tool Warehouse
--http://www.ntxtools.com. *They frequently have really hot deals on
refrigeration equipment. *Apparently, they buy new stuff from factories,
but also do large buys from distress sales, and offer the materials at
pretty spectacular prices.

LLoyd

Right now the least expensive micron/thermistor gage at Network Tool
Warehouse is $157. I'm thinking that I'll have to take the risk and
do without (doing a long evacuation and changing the vac pump oil once
during the process), knowing that the accumulator/dryer will be new.
Thanks for the link - I did order an inexpensive flush gun, a few
extra qts of vacuum pump oil and a 134A fitting for my vac pump.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.


Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?

jk

jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike
causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even
feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground will
protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics
manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you ever
certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's ESD
procedure and ISO 9001 process?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike
causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even
feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground will
protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics
manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you ever
certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's ESD
procedure and ISO 9001 process?



LAND SHARK !!!!!


come on - has almost everyone lost their sense of humor?

Bill Noble wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike
causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even
feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground will
protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics
manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you ever
certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's ESD
procedure and ISO 9001 process?


LAND SHARK !!!!!

come on - has almost everyone lost their sense of humor?


EBAY SHARK !!!!!

Laugh all you want. You auctioned off your mind & soul on eBay,
anyway.


A big part of my career in electronics dealt with mission critical
systems, and dealing with idiots who thought it was funny to damage
them.

Would you like to live downrange of a missile launch, if the command
destruct receivers we built were defective?

Or need accurate weather data to save your life and the earth stations
we designed & built for NOAA were ESD damaged and they failed due to
poor ESD control?


Here's some humor for you: Lick the drill bit in your drill press
while it's running to save money on cutting fluid.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning.

But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Bill Noble wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning. A lightning strike
causes a hell of a lot more damage than a HV discharge you don't even
feel. Do you think a wrist strap with a 1 M ohm resistor to ground
will
protect you from lightning? Have you ever worked in Electronics
manufacturing, or even a properly designed repair center? Have you
ever
certified workstations or soldering tools to comply with a company's
ESD
procedure and ISO 9001 process?


LAND SHARK !!!!!

come on - has almost everyone lost their sense of humor?


EBAY SHARK !!!!!

Laugh all you want. You auctioned off your mind & soul on eBay,
anyway.


A big part of my career in electronics dealt with mission critical
systems, and dealing with idiots who thought it was funny to damage
them.

Would you like to live downrange of a missile launch, if the command
destruct receivers we built were defective?

Or need accurate weather data to save your life and the earth stations
we designed & built for NOAA were ESD damaged and they failed due to
poor ESD control?


Here's some humor for you: Lick the drill bit in your drill press
while it's running to save money on cutting fluid.


MT - I guess you really do lack all sense of humor - that is very sad, and
you have my sympathy - you will perhaps live longer by not responding to my
posts if you cannot understand them. I am sorry for you, truly sorry. I
will not engage in a debate with you.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning.

But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD.


How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave
lecetronics working, but damaged?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Bill Noble wrote:

MT - I guess you really do lack all sense of humor - that is very sad, and
you have my sympathy - you will perhaps live longer by not responding to my
posts if you cannot understand them. I am sorry for you, truly sorry. I
will not engage in a debate with you.


Yawn. A lot of people love my sense of humor. Some on this group
email me quite often, and I reply with jokes they say they liked. I've
never seen anything from you that was remotely funny. You never engage
in debate. You just expect people to kiss your ass, and that won't
happen.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning.

But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD.


How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave
lecetronics working, but damaged?

Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge.

Joe

Joe wrote:

On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning.

But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD.


How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave
lecetronics working, but damaged?

Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge.


And the sun is a flashlight?

I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of
antistatic mat on your roof.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Joe wrote:

On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning.

But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD.


How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave
lecetronics working, but damaged?

Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge.


And the sun is a flashlight?

Not quite; the sun is a big fusion reactor, although, come to think of
it, both give off light by incandescence (assuming the flashlight is
the old style).

I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of
antistatic mat on your roof.

As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my
workbench. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted
copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a
multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a
clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved
inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying
the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five
bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the
money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how
and where I will mount it.

I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my
house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant.

Joe

Joe wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Joe wrote:

On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning.

But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD.


How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave
lecetronics working, but damaged?

Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge.


And the sun is a flashlight?

Not quite; the sun is a big fusion reactor, although, come to think of
it, both give off light by incandescence (assuming the flashlight is
the old style).


Other than scale, they are both portable lights with a limited life
span.


I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of
antistatic mat on your roof.

As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my
workbench.


And? It won't prevent ESD (Electro Static Damage) to elctronics on
your bench.


A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted
copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a
multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a
clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved
inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying
the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five
bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the
money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how
and where I will mount it.

I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my
house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant.


Are those roof panels bonded & grounded? If not, you will have a
real mess if lightning strikes.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:02:33 -0400, Joe wrote
the following:

On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of
antistatic mat on your roof.

As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my
workbench. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted
copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a
multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a
clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved
inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying
the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five
bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the
money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how
and where I will mount it.

Cool. I'd never seen one until you mentioned it. Here's a
hand-crafted one: http://www.metalhands.com/lightningrod.htm


I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my
house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant.

It's properly grounded?

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

On Tue, 18 May 2010 08:45:12 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Joe wrote:

On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Joe wrote:

On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:39:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Don Foreman wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2010 02:02:50 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


jk wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:



BS. There are no fish or sharks swimming in Florida's air. OTOH,
ESD isn't a big problem here.

Oh???? Isn't that where one of the nation's top lightning research
centers is?


Woooooooooooooooooosh! ESD isn't lightning.

But lightning is ESD, sure enough. BIG ESD.


How often have you had lighting hit your workbench and leave
lecetronics working, but damaged?

Magnitude notwithstanding, lightning IS an electrostatic discharge.


And the sun is a flashlight?

Not quite; the sun is a big fusion reactor, although, come to think of
it, both give off light by incandescence (assuming the flashlight is
the old style).


Other than scale, they are both portable lights with a limited life
span.


I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of
antistatic mat on your roof.

As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my
workbench.


And? It won't prevent ESD (Electro Static Damage) to elctronics on
your bench.

But that issue wasn't part of your original reply to me.

A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted
copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a
multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a
clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved
inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying
the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five
bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the
money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how
and where I will mount it.

I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my
house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant.


Are those roof panels bonded & grounded? If not, you will have a
real mess if lightning strikes.

Yeahbut, you didn't explicitly stipulate grounding in your reply, and
I make no claims as to the effectiveness of the metal roof in any
other sense than how well it works at shielding my buildings from
cumulonimbus discharge. g

Joe

On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:35:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:02:33 -0400, Joe wrote
the following:

On Mon, 17 May 2010 12:03:27 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

I suppose you have lightning rods on your workbench and a piece of
antistatic mat on your roof.

As a matter of fact, I do have a (single) lightning rod on my
workbench. A few weeks ago, I found a really cool antique twisted
copper rod at the flea market. It was six feet tall, had a
multicolored glass sphere about 4 inches diameter, in addition to a
clear spool-shaped glass piece. The forked tip elements were curved
inwards toward each other. I never have been able to justify paying
the price dealers get for those old rods, but when he said "Five
bucks", I just about tripped over other shoppers to give him the
money. It now is lying on the workbench while I try to figure out how
and where I will mount it.

Cool. I'd never seen one until you mentioned it. Here's a
hand-crafted one: http://www.metalhands.com/lightningrod.htm

Sweet. That is a really imaginative design - sorta steampunk in fact.
Thanks for the link. I will try to get a picture or two of mine and
post them somewhere (got a good photo sharing site?). I've seen lots
of 2 or 3 foot lightning rods, but this is the only one I've seen that
is so tall. The cable that was used to connect the rods to the ground
was often a thing of beauty as well. There is a good example in a park
near Wilmington, DE that protects a beautiful oak tree; it is a very
thick braided copper cable that divides off to follow each major limb.
The park formerly was the private garden of one of the DuPont women,
so she had the werewithal to provide the care that such a specimen
deserved.

I don't have an antistatic mat on my roof, however; since both my
house and my garage roofs are metal, it would be somewhat redundant.

It's properly grounded?

Nah.

Joe