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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
The numbers don't add up.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704548604575097602436388116.html The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. |
#2
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704548604575097602436388116.html The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? -- Ed Huntress |
#3
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...602436388116.h tml The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? Ad hominem. Joe Gwinn |
#4
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...602436388116.h tml The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? Ad hominem. Huh? I'm talking about the failure of *facts*, not of any person. The facts in your link regarding Chile don't stand scrutiny. Over 25 years ago, riding to my editing job, on my regular train to NYC with a WSJ editorialist whose name I won't mention, I told him that if they would pay me a decent rate to fact-check their editorials, I could make a living out of correcting their mistakes. He did not disagree. -- Ed Huntress |
#5
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
Ed,
I think he took it in like a "Big Gulp". Bob Swinney "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704548604575097602436388116.html The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? -- Ed Huntress |
#6
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... Ed, I think he took it in like a "Big Gulp". Bob Swinney I think some of these guys need to vary their diet. Too much of the WSJ editorials can give you constipation. d8-) -- Ed Huntress "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704548604575097602436388116.html The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? -- Ed Huntress |
#7
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:41:53 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...602436388116.h tml The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? Ad hominem. Huh? I'm talking about the failure of *facts*, not of any person. The facts in your link regarding Chile don't stand scrutiny. Over 25 years ago, riding to my editing job, on my regular train to NYC with a WSJ editorialist whose name I won't mention, I told him that if they would pay me a decent rate to fact-check their editorials, I could make a living out of correcting their mistakes. He did not disagree. ================ A few of the many problems in attempting any kind of health coverage cost:benefit analysis is defining exactly what and how many people are covered, what they are covered for, and how the "costs" are calculated, i.e. "out of pocket," "total societal," and many more. A major complicating factor is the huge amount of "cost externalization" through tax shifting that occurs with the current system because of the non taxability of medical benefits to the employee and deductibility as a business expense for the employer. This results in the current situation where the people without formal employer provided health care benefits, both employers and employees, are paying higher taxes to subsidize the people who get employer provided health benefits. This problem is amplified by the fact that people without health insurance tend to be concentrated in the lowest economic strata, while the better the health care benefits, the better the economic status of both the employer and employee, thus the current system is highly regressive. Much of the current costs of non-insured medical care is hidden in municipal hospital deficits, higher fees and payments for covered/paying patients, and state social safety net costs. Over time these very high costs are amplified by the emphasis on emergency treatments rather than the *MUCH* cheaper prevention, e.g. childhood immunizations and adequate prenatal care. Thus it is entirely possible to get wildly varying cost estimates through the inclusion or exclusion of various revenue and cost line items. Most unfortunately much of this debate is driven by ideology and the way things should be, rather than facts and the way things are. While I am not wildly excited by any of this, particularly the expansion of government, it appears that the following are required if we are to successfully revise the current unsustainable and nonfunctional system. Serious questions remain if the current proposed health coverage plan is the solution to a problem or simply a new problem. (1) The national health care plan must cover every person within the U.S., legal and illegal alike. They are covered now, but this forces the costs to the surface and eliminates the hidden costs for un reimbursed medical care currently borne by the municipal hospitals, paying customers, and state/local social service agencies [i.e. the local taxpayers]. (2) A document detailing coverage under national health care must be developed ASAP, explicitly detailing conditions covered, conditions not covered, and all exclusions and limitations. Until (1) and (2) are accomplished, the costs of national health care can only be [very] roughly estimated. (3) Employer provided health insurance "cost externalization" and tax shifting must be ended ASAP. These benefits should be taxed at the same rate as any other employee income/benefit, e.g. personal use of a company car, and most likely a cap should be established for the amount deductible as an employer business expense for each employee. This health insurance tax exemption/business expense has severely distorted employment costs and business economics. Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#8
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 09:41:53 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...602436388116.h tml The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? Ad hominem. Huh? I'm talking about the failure of *facts*, not of any person. The facts in your link regarding Chile don't stand scrutiny. Over 25 years ago, riding to my editing job, on my regular train to NYC with a WSJ editorialist whose name I won't mention, I told him that if they would pay me a decent rate to fact-check their editorials, I could make a living out of correcting their mistakes. He did not disagree. ================ A few of the many problems in attempting any kind of health coverage cost:benefit analysis is defining exactly what and how many people are covered, what they are covered for, and how the "costs" are calculated, i.e. "out of pocket," "total societal," and many more. snip Thus it is entirely possible to get wildly varying cost estimates through the inclusion or exclusion of various revenue and cost line items. Most unfortunately much of this debate is driven by ideology and the way things should be, rather than facts and the way things are. more snip -- but I read the whole thing, honest Right. It's great material for ideological editorials, isn't it? I've tried to hack through a few of them but I've concluded that it isn't even worth reading them. -- Ed Huntress |
#9
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OT - Paul Ryan v. the President -- The Republican dissects ObamaCare's real costs. Democrats stay mute
On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:36:18 -0500, the infamous Joseph Gwinn
scrawled the following: In article , "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... The numbers don't add up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...602436388116.h tml The Wall Street Journal, 4 March 2010. Joe Gwinn PS: If the URL doesn't work, ensure that you got the whole thing. Are these more b.s., Joe, like the piece on Chile you linked to yesterday? Did you check the facts, or do you swallow this stuff whole? Ad hominem. Poor Ed drank the Obama bin Biden koolaid last year. shrug -- An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till the reader has nothing else in the world to do. -- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943 |
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