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New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On my application for employment I have a series of math and word problems.
That weeded out more than 2/3ds. of applicants. Then I added a series of lines and the applicant was given a scale to measure them. That weeded out 2/3ds. of the remainder. Now I have a steel block with some threaded holes and the applicant has to put some SHCSs of different sizes and pitch into the right holes. And lastly clamp a Vise-Grip onto the block with a flat washer and not cover the center hole. We had to make a hardened block as the threaded holes got buggered-up on the CRS block. And, somebody actually broke the Vise-Grips! I also have some questions like "Who is your Congress person?", "Who is the Governor?", "Name three States West of the Mississippi.". Did you know it's illegal to ask if the applicant ever was injured on the job or ever filed a Workers Comp. claim or if you have any chronic illnesses, or if you have kids or if you're pregnant? Now I order an extensive background check for anybody I hire. We reject 95% of applicants even for general labor jobs. What do they teach in "School" today? I have had very good luck with felons fresh out of the slammer. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
I'm curious to hear more about this. I sense that the lack
of public eduction is a large part of what you're noticing. Sad that you are finding so few qualified applicants. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Buerste" wrote in message ... On my application for employment I have a series of math and word problems. That weeded out more than 2/3ds. of applicants. Then I added a series of lines and the applicant was given a scale to measure them. That weeded out 2/3ds. of the remainder. Now I have a steel block with some threaded holes and the applicant has to put some SHCSs of different sizes and pitch into the right holes. And lastly clamp a Vise-Grip onto the block with a flat washer and not cover the center hole. We had to make a hardened block as the threaded holes got buggered-up on the CRS block. And, somebody actually broke the Vise-Grips! I also have some questions like "Who is your Congress person?", "Who is the Governor?", "Name three States West of the Mississippi.". Did you know it's illegal to ask if the applicant ever was injured on the job or ever filed a Workers Comp. claim or if you have any chronic illnesses, or if you have kids or if you're pregnant? Now I order an extensive background check for anybody I hire. We reject 95% of applicants even for general labor jobs. What do they teach in "School" today? I have had very good luck with felons fresh out of the slammer. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
In article , "Buerste" wrote:
[...] What do they teach in "School" today? I have had very good luck with felons fresh out of the slammer. You are to be congratulated for giving them the opportunity to become contributing members of society. Ex-offenders who have jobs are much less likely to re-offend than those who don't. And that benefits all of us. Thank you. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Buerste" wrote in message ... On my application for employment I have a series of math and word problems. That weeded out more than 2/3ds. of applicants. Then I added a series of lines and the applicant was given a scale to measure them. That weeded out 2/3ds. of the remainder. Now I have a steel block with some threaded holes and the applicant has to put some SHCSs of different sizes and pitch into the right holes. And lastly clamp a Vise-Grip onto the block with a flat washer and not cover the center hole. We had to make a hardened block as the threaded holes got buggered-up on the CRS block. And, somebody actually broke the Vise-Grips! I also have some questions like "Who is your Congress person?", "Who is the Governor?", "Name three States West of the Mississippi.". Did you know it's illegal to ask if the applicant ever was injured on the job or ever filed a Workers Comp. claim or if you have any chronic illnesses, or if you have kids or if you're pregnant? Now I order an extensive background check for anybody I hire. We reject 95% of applicants even for general labor jobs. What do they teach in "School" today? I have had very good luck with felons fresh out of the slammer. Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. And at times, I have been that newbie. I applied for a job at a place and I didn't even get an interview. About 6 months later I was in their plant programming their vision system. Their least employee was evidently ahead of me 6 months ago but their most experienced employee didn't know how to program their vision system, something I had never seen 6 months prior. The Engineering company I worked for could tell that even though I didn't directly have experience, teaching myself assembly language, basic, and C showed my interest in learning. Out of college with an Associates Degree and a couple years at a machine shop, I found everybody wanting experienced people. On the side I designed, built, and programmed a CNC circuit board drill controlled from a Commodore 64. I also interfaced a basketball scoreboard to a PC XT compatible using an 8255 on an ISA proto card. Most people that interviewed me couldn't see any connection between what I did and industrial electrical technician work. Then I got a job with an engineering company and was doing engineering projects for the companies that didn't think I was qualified to work for them. One interview I had wasn't interested in me because I didn't do well on their test that had relay ladder logic on it. I had never seen relay ladder logic at that point, but if someone would just tell me what it was I would understand it. Allen Bradley addressing isn't a knowledge a person is born with. Oh, not too long after that I was programming Allen Bradley PLC's for that company hired through the engineering company I worked for. The boss at the engineering company knew enough to know that if I could teach myself assembly language then I would have no trouble with ladder logic. I guess I'm wondering it many of those you eliminate may be your best employees if you gave them a chance. Perhaps not in your case, but I know I ran circles around those who were chosen over me by HR. But then again, perhaps being chosen over is what motivated me to learn. RogerN |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On 2010-01-29, RogerN wrote:
"Buerste" wrote in message ... On my application for employment I have a series of math and word problems. That weeded out more than 2/3ds. of applicants. Then I added a series of lines and the applicant was given a scale to measure them. That weeded out 2/3ds. of the remainder. Now I have a steel block with some threaded holes and the applicant has to put some SHCSs of different sizes and pitch into the right holes. And lastly clamp a Vise-Grip onto the block with a flat washer and not cover the center hole. We had to make a hardened block as the threaded holes got buggered-up on the CRS block. And, somebody actually broke the Vise-Grips! I also have some questions like "Who is your Congress person?", "Who is the Governor?", "Name three States West of the Mississippi.". Did you know it's illegal to ask if the applicant ever was injured on the job or ever filed a Workers Comp. claim or if you have any chronic illnesses, or if you have kids or if you're pregnant? Now I order an extensive background check for anybody I hire. We reject 95% of applicants even for general labor jobs. What do they teach in "School" today? I have had very good luck with felons fresh out of the slammer. Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. Roger, I think that you have a point, but I would suggest separating education from experience. Can an inexperienced person become a great machinist. Yes. Can someone who does not know how to multiply fractions, become a great machinist? I think not easily. i |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Ignoramus2532" wrote in message ... On 2010-01-29, RogerN wrote: "Buerste" wrote in message ... On my application for employment I have a series of math and word problems. That weeded out more than 2/3ds. of applicants. Then I added a series of lines and the applicant was given a scale to measure them. That weeded out 2/3ds. of the remainder. Now I have a steel block with some threaded holes and the applicant has to put some SHCSs of different sizes and pitch into the right holes. And lastly clamp a Vise-Grip onto the block with a flat washer and not cover the center hole. We had to make a hardened block as the threaded holes got buggered-up on the CRS block. And, somebody actually broke the Vise-Grips! I also have some questions like "Who is your Congress person?", "Who is the Governor?", "Name three States West of the Mississippi.". Did you know it's illegal to ask if the applicant ever was injured on the job or ever filed a Workers Comp. claim or if you have any chronic illnesses, or if you have kids or if you're pregnant? Now I order an extensive background check for anybody I hire. We reject 95% of applicants even for general labor jobs. What do they teach in "School" today? I have had very good luck with felons fresh out of the slammer. Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. Roger, I think that you have a point, but I would suggest separating education from experience. Can an inexperienced person become a great machinist. Yes. Can someone who does not know how to multiply fractions, become a great machinist? I think not easily. i Perhaps the person never had a reason to multiply fractions up to that point. Such as a person gets out of school, sweeps floors for a few years, and then takes a test and doesn't remember how to multiply fractions. But maybe given an application where they need to multiply fractions, perhaps they become the best fraction multiplier the world has ever seen! :-) For example, I like math but I'm not interested in writing numbers on paper and performing math operations on them. So, going my first machinist job I wasn't up to date on shop math but shortly thereafter I knew how to use trig and I knew if I had my compound set for 60 Degrees the tool bit would travel 0.5X in one direction and 0.866X in the other direction. I also learned how to calculate the dividing head, I didn't need to look up tables. I also could calculate gear ratios to cut screw threads and could use continued fractions to get ratios close if exact was not practical. I guess I would say that when I started in the shop my shop math was weak but shortly after I was pretty good at it, simply because I had an application for it. I didn't learn everything but I learned all we used, I don't have to look at charts except to see the decimal equivalent of some letter and number sizes. Learning shop math for an application has stuck even though I haven't been employed as a machinist in 25 years. RogerN |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On Jan 28, 6:32*pm, "Buerste" wrote:
On my application for employment I have a series of math and word problems. That weeded out more than 2/3ds. of applicants. *Then I added a series of lines and the applicant was given a scale to measure them. *That weeded out 2/3ds. of the remainder. *Now I have a steel block with some threaded holes and the applicant has to put some SHCSs of different sizes and pitch into the right holes. *And lastly clamp a Vise-Grip onto the block with a flat washer and not cover the center hole. *We had to make a hardened block as the threaded holes got buggered-up on the CRS block. *And, somebody actually broke the Vise-Grips! I also have some questions like "Who is your Congress person?", "Who is the Governor?", "Name three States West of the Mississippi.". *Did you know it's illegal to ask if the applicant ever was injured on the job or ever filed a Workers Comp. claim or if you have any chronic illnesses, or if you have kids or if you're pregnant? *Now I order an extensive background check for anybody I hire. *We reject 95% of applicants even for general labor jobs. What do they teach in "School" today? *I have had very good luck with felons fresh out of the slammer. I recently read a Warren Buffet quote: "Someone once said that in looking for people to hire you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy. And if they don't have the first, the other two will kill you." |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
I recently read a Warren Buffet quote: "Someone once said that in looking for people to hire you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy. And if they don't have the first, the other two will kill you." Man I couldn't agree more. Give me a person with integrity and a good work ethic and I can use them. It may take a bit more time to get those without education or experience up to speed but you can't change integrity and work ethic. I'm fortunate to be able to hire for a menial level jobs and then select from this pool for advancement. I know of no way to spot integrity and work ethic in a short interview. Karl |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On Jan 29, 3:39*am, "RogerN" wrote:
Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? *I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. RogerN Lots of companies want specific experience and should be more open minded. But it sounds like Tom's test of measuring the length of lines falls into general knowledge. I once did not hire a high school graduate that did not know how many inches were in a foot. I do not think he would have turned out to be one of our best employees. Dan |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Let the Record show that " on or
about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:52:53 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Jan 29, 3:39*am, "RogerN" wrote: Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? *I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. RogerN Lots of companies want specific experience and should be more open minded. But it sounds like Tom's test of measuring the length of lines falls into general knowledge. I once did not hire a high school graduate that did not know how many inches were in a foot. I do not think he would have turned out to be one of our best employees. As bizarre as it sounds, I did work with a guy who could not read a steel tape. Kind of a handclap when it came to measuring things around the shop. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Let the Record show that "Karl Townsend"
on or about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:24:15 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: I recently read a Warren Buffet quote: "Someone once said that in looking for people to hire you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy. And if they don't have the first, the other two will kill you." Man I couldn't agree more. Give me a person with integrity and a good work Integrity will give you a "good work ethic". Buffet's point is that a hard worker without integrity, is working for themselves, not you. ethic and I can use them. It may take a bit more time to get those without education or experience up to speed but you can't change integrity and work ethic. I'm fortunate to be able to hire for a menial level jobs and then select from this pool for advancement. I know of no way to spot integrity and work ethic in a short interview. Karl - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
pyotr filipivich wrote in
: Let the Record show that " on or about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:52:53 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Jan 29, 3:39*am, "RogerN" wrote: Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? *I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. RogerN Lots of companies want specific experience and should be more open minded. But it sounds like Tom's test of measuring the length of lines falls into general knowledge. I once did not hire a high school graduate that did not know how many inches were in a foot. I do not think he would have turned out to be one of our best employees. As bizarre as it sounds, I did work with a guy who could not read a steel tape. Kind of a handclap when it came to measuring things around the shop. When I was a grad student at MIT, I was teaching a lab course. I had an MIT undergraduate who could not operate a yard stick! He was a physics major. There were quite a few students at MIT who were really bright, but didn't have a lick of sense or real world experience. Several years later we had an MIT EE _grad_ student in my lab working on his thesis. He wanted to build something for home with an LED. When he started asking questions about how to do this, it became apparent that he was a bit fuzzy on things like how many volts an LED required, what comes out of a wall socket, ac vs dc, etc. It was scary. Doug White |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On Jan 29, 10:58*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
*But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN Fortunately one does not have to choose between just those two extremes. Once I advertised for a part time bookkeeper/ secretary and got some huge number of responses. Something like two or three hundred. After carefully reading all the letters, was able to select a few to talk to, and the one we picked did a great job. We could have gotten someone for minimum wage, but paid about twice that for a really competent worker. Dan |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On Jan 29, 2:21*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Karl Townsend" on or about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:24:15 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking *the following: I recently read a Warren Buffet quote: "Someone once said that in looking for people to hire you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy. *And if they don't have the first, the other two will kill you." Man I couldn't agree more. Give me a person with integrity and a good work * * * * Integrity will give you a "good work ethic". * * * * Buffet's point is that a hard worker without integrity, is working for themselves, not you.ethic and I can use them. It may take a bit more time to get those without education or experience up to speed but you can't change integrity and work ethic. I'm fortunate to be able to hire for a menial level jobs and then select from this pool for advancement. *I know of no way to spot integrity and work ethic in a short interview. Karl - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! Being ethical and having integrity are one in the same. Warren Buffets wants people he can trust. I expect that he understands people who seek profit for themselves and he looks for as much value as he can get for what he is paying in wages. Sounds like a fair horse trader to me. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message ... Let the Record show that " on or about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:52:53 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Jan 29, 3:39 am, "RogerN" wrote: Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. RogerN Lots of companies want specific experience and should be more open minded. But it sounds like Tom's test of measuring the length of lines falls into general knowledge. I once did not hire a high school graduate that did not know how many inches were in a foot. I do not think he would have turned out to be one of our best employees. As bizarre as it sounds, I did work with a guy who could not read a steel tape. Kind of a handclap when it came to measuring things around the shop. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! My BIL is functionally illiterate. He owns a construction company that did $12 million last year. He grew the company by starting a drywall company. One time, I saw him measure, then fold the tape to get center. I'm sure he had a lot of practical ways to measure to arrive at the same answer. Still, I do understand that in the culling process, it does cut out a lot of the chaff, yet some wheat may be discarded in the process. I was helper for a welder in the Gulf of Mexico my first season. He could not read or write, but he could saddle a 12" pipe on the diagonal using a matchbook and a piece of letter paper. Fold this way and that. It came out amazingly close. Other guys were good welders, but could only weld what was set in front of them. There's a hundred ways to cook a poodle. But it all tastes like chicken. Steve |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"RogerN" wrote:
And at times, I have been that newbie. I applied for a job at a place and I didn't even get an interview. About 6 months later I was in their plant programming their vision system. Their least employee was evidently ahead of me 6 months ago but their most experienced employee didn't know how to program their vision system, something I had never seen 6 months prior. The Engineering company I worked for could tell that even though I didn't directly have experience, teaching myself assembly language, basic, and C showed my interest in learning. Don't feel bad. I read all the interesting books in the 62x range of the Dewey decimal code at my local library before I left K-12. Did a 4 year active hitch in the USMC, repaired the Westinghouse AWG10 radar in F4-J and F4-S's I get home, can't find a decent job, get hired in doing assembly work at a local factory. I move up the line, the maintenance supervisor doesn't want me because I can't weld. I know electronics, pneumatics, hydraulics. Now I'm a press operator, the presses are in sad repair. I start studying hydraulics in my spare time. I figure out what is going wrong. I talk to my supervisors, I tell them what I think is wrong. I'm right, I get a rep for having a clue. Maintenance supervisor still doesn't want me. Country bumpkin that hates book learning. I'm a country bumpkin that reads. Supervisors get with plant manager and I get shoved up maintenance supervisors ass. I didn't spent much time there before they moved me out of there and made maintenance subordinate to me. Along the progression I was dealing with EPA stuff, control engineering, robotics, IT. I got to get rid of the EPA stuff fairly quick. Those other things seemed to be higher on the needs list. Fine with me! I sure miss my old job. Don't miss the pressure, I do miss the 7 minute commute. If the they had made it through the 2001 automotive drop, I'd have 5 weeks vacation now. :( Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message ... Let the Record show that " on or about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:52:53 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Jan 29, 3:39 am, "RogerN" wrote: Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? I've seen a lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie although in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced burnout. RogerN Lots of companies want specific experience and should be more open minded. But it sounds like Tom's test of measuring the length of lines falls into general knowledge. I once did not hire a high school graduate that did not know how many inches were in a foot. I do not think he would have turned out to be one of our best employees. As bizarre as it sounds, I did work with a guy who could not read a steel tape. Kind of a handclap when it came to measuring things around the shop. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! Not bizarre at all! Did you ever try to teach somebody to read a tape that has no concept of fractions? |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On 2010-01-30, Buerste wrote:
The deciding factor for me is a personal interview. I won't hire anybody with their pants waist around their knees no matter what! I can usually tell if somebody wants the satisfaction that comes with doing a good job or if they just want a paycheck and will do as little as possible. I try and engage the applicant in a friendly conversation and just listen to what they say or don't say. I remember how in business school I was taught about a "study", whereby interviewers talked to job applicants about general things and formed impressions. Turns out that their impressions had little to do with the future job performance of those hired. I do believe this to be true based on what I have seen. Some people are really good at bull****ting and manipulation and only deep digging (asking detailed technical questions) can sort out those BSers. In any job interviews, I always ask "hard questions" that bull****ters will not be able to answer correctly. The worst interview suggestions are "body language" based suggestions, paying attention to body language is truly a great way to get screwed. First, honest people from different cultures, or introverts, always make a bad impression from a body language standpoint. Second, crooks and cheats know all about body language and assume sincere poses, look at the interviewer's chin etc. i |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
wrote in message ... On Jan 29, 10:58 pm, "RogerN" wrote: But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN / /Fortunately one does not have to choose between just those two /extremes. Once I advertised for a part time bookkeeper/ secretary and /got some huge number of responses. Something like two or three /hundred. After carefully reading all the letters, was able to select /a few to talk to, and the one we picked did a great job. We could /have gotten someone for minimum wage, but paid about twice that for a /really competent worker. / / Dan / I presented 2 extremes and most fit somewhere in the middle. My point is that the greatest that have ever lived wouldn't pass the test at some point in their life. I once heard that Walt Disney was turned down for a job, the interviewer said he had no imagination. Trying to determine an applicants potential is one thing, what I don't appreciate is incompetent HR. "I realize you can rebuild a fighter jet, but I'm not sure if you're qualified to repair bicycles for us". Or "So, you can make almost anything in a machine shop but I'm not sure you're qualified to work at JiffyLube". Or "So I see from your resume that you worked with kinematics for articulated arm robotics, but we need someone that can figure sales tax". You get the picture, the applicant has abundant qualifications but HR doesn't understand well enough to know. I don't think this is the case here (this thread) but in many places it is. At least it seems the golf club companies realized former NASA rocket scientists were qualified to design golf clubs from space age materials :-) RogerN |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Doug White" wrote When I was a grad student at MIT, I was teaching a lab course. I had an MIT undergraduate who could not operate a yard stick! He was a physics major. There were quite a few students at MIT who were really bright, but didn't have a lick of sense or real world experience. Several years later we had an MIT EE _grad_ student in my lab working on his thesis. He wanted to build something for home with an LED. When he started asking questions about how to do this, it became apparent that he was a bit fuzzy on things like how many volts an LED required, what comes out of a wall socket, ac vs dc, etc. It was scary. Doug White I love people who are educated beyond their capacity. Steve |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union. Steve |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Ignoramus7752" wrote in message ... On 2010-01-30, Buerste wrote: The deciding factor for me is a personal interview. I won't hire anybody with their pants waist around their knees no matter what! I can usually tell if somebody wants the satisfaction that comes with doing a good job or if they just want a paycheck and will do as little as possible. I try and engage the applicant in a friendly conversation and just listen to what they say or don't say. I remember how in business school I was taught about a "study", whereby interviewers talked to job applicants about general things and formed impressions. Turns out that their impressions had little to do with the future job performance of those hired. I do believe this to be true based on what I have seen. Some people are really good at bull****ting and manipulation and only deep digging (asking detailed technical questions) can sort out those BSers. In any job interviews, I always ask "hard questions" that bull****ters will not be able to answer correctly. The worst interview suggestions are "body language" based suggestions, paying attention to body language is truly a great way to get screwed. First, honest people from different cultures, or introverts, always make a bad impression from a body language standpoint. Second, crooks and cheats know all about body language and assume sincere poses, look at the interviewer's chin etc. i Yep, I've been snookered a few times but no big deal. I have a 90 day probationary period and the head of the union will tell me if the guy's a worker or not and he wants his people to be a good team. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Steve B" wrote in message ... "Doug White" wrote When I was a grad student at MIT, I was teaching a lab course. I had an MIT undergraduate who could not operate a yard stick! He was a physics major. There were quite a few students at MIT who were really bright, but didn't have a lick of sense or real world experience. Several years later we had an MIT EE _grad_ student in my lab working on his thesis. He wanted to build something for home with an LED. When he started asking questions about how to do this, it became apparent that he was a bit fuzzy on things like how many volts an LED required, what comes out of a wall socket, ac vs dc, etc. It was scary. Doug White I love people who are educated beyond their capacity. Steve And many try to get an education but instead get indoctrination, that's how we get liberals. :-) RogerN |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Steve B wrote:
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union. Steve Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was how bad they were. But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson. David |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
pyotr filipivich wrote:
As bizarre as it sounds, I did work with a guy who could not read a steel tape. Kind of a handclap when it came to measuring things around the shop. I'm dangeous if I'm reading it upside down. Tend to cut an inch short ;) Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:37:10 -0600, the infamous "David R.Birch"
scrawled the following: Steve B wrote: But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union. Steve Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was how bad they were. But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson. Don't feel too bad, Davey. He probably wouldn't hire a recovering Democrat or ex-con, either. He realizes that vast majority of those birds don't change their stripes. Congrats on changing yours. My first job was as a boxboy and I got the same realization you did the Teamsters. Never again. After union dues and extra taxes, the 65 cent "raise" I got for joining the union resulted in mere pennies. I watched the union guys behind the scenes at a COMDEX in Vegas a decade or so ago. What a crock! Most weren't working, all waiting for the union electrician who could legally plug a cord into an outlet, since they were barred from doing so. And on it goes. -- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Steve B wrote: "Doug White" wrote When I was a grad student at MIT, I was teaching a lab course. I had an MIT undergraduate who could not operate a yard stick! He was a physics major. There were quite a few students at MIT who were really bright, but didn't have a lick of sense or real world experience. Several years later we had an MIT EE _grad_ student in my lab working on his thesis. He wanted to build something for home with an LED. When he started asking questions about how to do this, it became apparent that he was a bit fuzzy on things like how many volts an LED required, what comes out of a wall socket, ac vs dc, etc. It was scary. Doug White I love people who are educated beyond their capacity. Not me. A lot end up in politics. -- Greed is the root of all eBay. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The
HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the technical skills. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "RogerN" wrote in message m... I think you would be good at it. What I've ran across all to often is that the HR interviewer doesn't know much about the job and doesn't realize the kind of qualifications that are related. I went from office equipment repair to industrial equipment. Interviewers didn't understand that reading schematics and measuring voltage from the output of a photo eye on office equipment was more difficult that looking at the LED on an industrial photo eye. My electronics experience with office equipment was applicable to industrial equipment, but the industrial equipment is much easier. RogerN |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
There you go. The two level interview.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Buerste" wrote in message ... Yep, I've been snookered a few times but no big deal. I have a 90 day probationary period and the head of the union will tell me if the guy's a worker or not and he wants his people to be a good team. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On 2010-01-30, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the technical skills. How would HR determine if the person is a leech, or a worker? i |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the technical skills. Most of the shops I've interviewed in send you to the guy you're going to be working for first, then HR. The one place where I went to HR first, the interviewer's description of the company management made me not bother with the rest. David |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
In article ,
Ignoramus7752 wrote: On 2010-01-30, Buerste wrote: The deciding factor for me is a personal interview. I won't hire anybody with their pants waist around their knees no matter what! I can usually tell if somebody wants the satisfaction that comes with doing a good job or if they just want a paycheck and will do as little as possible. I try and engage the applicant in a friendly conversation and just listen to what they say or don't say. I remember how in business school I was taught about a "study", whereby interviewers talked to job applicants about general things and formed impressions. Turns out that their impressions had little to do with the future job performance of those hired. I do believe this to be true based on what I have seen. Some people are really good at bull****ting and manipulation and only deep digging (asking detailed technical questions) can sort out those BSers. In any job interviews, I always ask "hard questions" that bull****ters will not be able to answer correctly. The worst interview suggestions are "body language" based suggestions, paying attention to body language is truly a great way to get screwed. I'll second that. I am an electrical engineer and have interviewed many an engineer. Two cases stick out, both June grads from name universities looking for their first job: The EE football player. The interview was a struggle from the start and ended early when in a burst of inspiration I asked the applicant to discuss Ohm's Law (on resistances, voltages, and currents), and he had no idea what I was talking about. (This is the EE equivalent of not knowing fractions.) How did he even graduate? If he manages to get an EE job, things will go very badly for him. The handsome and well-spoken fellow with the nice well-rounded resume. Everything went well until I asked him to describe his class project, drawing a diagram and following the electrons et al around on the drawing, and it soon developed that he though that to get motor motion it was enough to send the data to the PROM. There were other like symptoms. Obviously, he had never directly worked on this project, or he would have had a lot to say about each and every component, right down to the mounting screws. Joe Gwinn |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"David R.Birch" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union. Steve Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was how bad they were. But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson. David I remember you. You wanted the break between the application and the interview. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:37:10 -0600, the infamous "David R.Birch" scrawled the following: Steve B wrote: But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union. Steve Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was how bad they were. But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson. Don't feel too bad, Davey. He probably wouldn't hire a recovering Democrat or ex-con, either. He realizes that vast majority of those birds don't change their stripes. Congrats on changing yours. My first job was as a boxboy and I got the same realization you did the Teamsters. Never again. After union dues and extra taxes, the 65 cent "raise" I got for joining the union resulted in mere pennies. I watched the union guys behind the scenes at a COMDEX in Vegas a decade or so ago. What a crock! Most weren't working, all waiting for the union electrician who could legally plug a cord into an outlet, since they were barred from doing so. And on it goes. And the electricians were barred from moving freight. When crafts respect each other's jobs, there's more work. You might have observed for a day or two, but you didn't learn much. The convention business in Vegas is dismal. Light years away from what it was decades ago. Out of towners, and under the table deals. Steve, who retired with 37 yrs. Teamster Union, a decent pension, and continuing good benefits. |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN I have found out that the guy you actually hire shows up about two weeks after starting. They can all do good for about two weeks, then you find out if you made a good choice or not. Steve |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
On 1/30/2010 11:24 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
The EE football player. The interview was a struggle from the start and ended early when in a burst of inspiration I asked the applicant to discuss Ohm's Law (on resistances, voltages, and currents), and he had no idea what I was talking about. (This is the EE equivalent of not knowing fractions.) How did he even graduate? My son had a good one a couple of months ago. He was interviewing a Freshout MSEE from a prestigious three letter institute. Newly minted electronic engineer didn't know what that triangular symbol with the plus and minus hooked up to the two resistors was. Was convinced that digital electronics always consumed the same power, no matter what the clock speed. Having said that, the business of hiring is screwy. A student of my acquaintance is getting out in June with an MBA, MSME, and a BS in physics. A couple of published papers. Very impressive engineering project resume. Good (summer) engineering work history. No solid offers. In the past someone like this would have to hand out numbers to the HR departments. What gives? Kevin Gallimore |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything and can't be taught anything? RogerN When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union. Steve Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was how bad they were. But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson. David I remember you. You wanted the break between the application and the interview. Nope, I was the guy being told by my fellow union members that my productivity was making them look bad. They asked, "why do you do more than you have to?" I replied, "self respect, why would I do less than I can?" I was not a good union man. But you are too narrow minded to hire me. Or for me to want to work for you. David |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Steve B" wrote:
When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union. The rule at the job prior to the current one was after 30 days you have to join the union. I was 2 days from having to join when my current employer made an offer. The only reason I was in a union shop was because it was a job and I needed one. I wasn't planning on staying if I could help it. I did get a glimpse of union rule though. The lunch room turned into an election headquarters for the democratic party and it was assumed you will support the democrats. I've never saw a company lunchroom in a non union shop used for political purposes. Do I get extra points for hiring in at a place where the employees decertified their union a few years before I was hired? Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
"Steve B" wrote:
I have found out that the guy you actually hire shows up about two weeks after starting. They can all do good for about two weeks, then you find out if you made a good choice or not. If that isn't the truth. Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
New employee test for "metalworking skills"
Ignoramus10246 wrote:
How would HR determine if the person is a leech, or a worker? They often make calls to references. I recieved quite a few when in a previous position. Still got a few calls after the place closed. Bad guys, I refered them to our HR with a company policy is no comment from me. Good guys, I'd say something like, Joe is applying with you? Hell of a worker, ect, but I'm supposed to let HR handle this stuff. ;) Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
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