I'm looking at a lathe, a South Bend 9x32. I haven't gone to see it in
person yet; the seller estimates it is from "the 40s", no model information
on it, but here is a pictu

http://i47.tinypic.com/30tjd3l.jpg

When I asked the seller if it came with the change gears, he replied that it
"... comes with complete gearing - it's not quick change."

However, that looks a lot like the first lathe on this page, which appears
to require change gears:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/

So does this one require change gears, or is there a transmission in there
somewhere to change the speed for turning and/or threading?

Also, myself knowing little about lathes, what desirable features would a
simple lathe like this not have (besides power cross feed, which seller
stated it didn't have)?

Thanks,

Jon

On Dec 16, 7:19*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
I'm looking at a lathe, a South Bend 9x32. *I haven't gone to see it in
person yet; the seller estimates it is from "the 40s", no model information
on it, but here is a pictu

http://i47.tinypic.com/30tjd3l.jpg

When I asked the seller if it came with the change gears, he replied that it
"... comes with complete gearing - it's not quick change."

However, that looks a lot like the first lathe on this page, which appears
to require change gears:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/

So does this one require change gears, or is there a transmission in there
somewhere to change the speed for turning and/or threading?

Also, myself knowing little about lathes, what desirable features would a
simple lathe like this not have (besides power cross feed, which seller
stated it didn't have)?

Thanks,

Jon

I read what you wrote to mean that the seller has and will give you
all the change gears that the lathe needs. The transmission on a Model
A is the curved box with two levers and an instruction plate mounted
over the left-end base, the place where the drum switch is mounted in
the photo of the Model C.

This has the threading chart for the Model B and C.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/page6.html
The text lists the gear set sizes.

The "stud gear" is on the outer end of the stud that holds the
swinging plate which selects forward, reverse or off. The "screw gear"
is the gear attached to the end of the leadscrew.
When the chart shows 18 and 72 tooth gears on the same pivot they are
attached together and rotate at the same speed, making a 4:1
reduction.

jsw

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at a lathe, a South Bend 9x32. I haven't gone to see it in
person yet; the seller estimates it is from "the 40s", no model
information on it, but here is a pictu

http://i47.tinypic.com/30tjd3l.jpg

When I asked the seller if it came with the change gears, he replied that
it "... comes with complete gearing - it's not quick change."

However, that looks a lot like the first lathe on this page, which appears
to require change gears:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/

So does this one require change gears, or is there a transmission in there
somewhere to change the speed for turning and/or threading?

Also, myself knowing little about lathes, what desirable features would a
simple lathe like this not have (besides power cross feed, which seller
stated it didn't have)?

Thanks,

Jon

What kind of work do you intend to do on it? I have a Heavy 10 from the mid
50's. With the disclaimer that I may not be getting 100% out of it, I can't
imagine working with a much smaller or less powerful lathe.

Jim Wilkins wrote:

I read what you wrote to mean that the seller has and will give you
all the change gears that the lathe needs.

That was why I asked him, but my read on his response was that he doesn't
believe it needs them. My homework made me think it does need change gears,
and I thank you for verifying that for me.

I would ask him again, but electronic communication seems to be very
difficult with him, so I might have to go and see it in person.

I did notice some change gears on Ebay; a quick look gives me that idea that
they seem to be about $100 for a set.

The transmission on a Model
A is the curved box with two levers and an instruction plate mounted
over the left-end base, the place where the drum switch is mounted in
the photo of the Model C.

This has the threading chart for the Model B and C.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/page6.html
The text lists the gear set sizes.

The "stud gear" is on the outer end of the stud that holds the
swinging plate which selects forward, reverse or off. The "screw gear"
is the gear attached to the end of the leadscrew.
When the chart shows 18 and 72 tooth gears on the same pivot they are
attached together and rotate at the same speed, making a 4:1
reduction.

Thanks Jim, I appreciate it. Just out of curiosity, how much would you
expect to pay for something like this, assuming it isn't too terribly worn,
but without any change gears? (assuming I'm not an Iggy or Gunner)

Jon

In article ,
"Jon Danniken" wrote:

When I asked the seller if it came with the change gears, he replied that it
"... comes with complete gearing - it's not quick change."

When the seller said "comes with gearing, is not quick change" that
means change gears - A box or rack of gears that you need to change -
ie, take a wrench, remove this gear, add that gear, get this feed or
thread. There's usually a chart to tell you which gears to use where.

Quick change involve gears that you can "quickly change" between by
using a lever system. No box or rack of separate gears. No wrench.

As for changing the speed of the headstock, you move the flat belt to
different pulleys. Has nothing to do with the gearing, other than the
back gears.

You might want to drop $12 or so on "How to Run a Lathe" (perhaps
cheaper if you can find a copy that doesn't need to be shipped to you).

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear...155918115X&x=0

So long as the work fits and you are not trying to run production, you
can get a lot done on a 9" - but you might yearn for power cross feed.
However, not having it will make you learn to turn the dials smoothly.
Depends on how much facing you'll be doing, and how much you'll mind
having to hand-feed.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On Dec 16, 10:16*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
...

Thanks Jim, I appreciate it. *Just out of curiosity, how much would you
expect to pay for something like this, assuming it isn't too terribly worn,
but without any change gears? *(assuming I'm not an Iggy or Gunner) *

Jon

I don't see any on the local Craigslist for the past few months, and
the second-hand machinery dealer I visited this afternoon has no metal
lathes, so I don't know the current market.

jsw

This appears to be a loose change gear lathe, you MUST get a stack of 8
or 9 gears as part of the tooling that comes with the lathe.

I'm not a SB lathe user, not sure if this comes with babbit or ball
bearing headstock, looks like a babbit set up, someone else will need to
chime in. A ball bearing headstock will have the spindle sticking out of
a 4" or so diameter casting, a babbit version will be half that.

A worn babbit setup for a newbie is disaster. Nothing but grief. You
should be able to put a pry bar under the chuck and lift up, get no more
than .001" or so. Any more and either pass on it or plan on learning how
to repair things.

Around here a Logan or SB setup in moderate shape is low hundreds ($200
to $400) as a fair price. Figure almost double that by the time you
replace a headstock bearing, add in a nice toolpost, some boring bars
from Enco, and a nice collection of tool bits.

Jon Danniken wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
I read what you wrote to mean that the seller has and will give you
all the change gears that the lathe needs.

That was why I asked him, but my read on his response was that he doesn't
believe it needs them. My homework made me think it does need change gears,
and I thank you for verifying that for me.

I would ask him again, but electronic communication seems to be very
difficult with him, so I might have to go and see it in person.

I did notice some change gears on Ebay; a quick look gives me that idea that
they seem to be about $100 for a set.

The transmission on a Model
A is the curved box with two levers and an instruction plate mounted
over the left-end base, the place where the drum switch is mounted in
the photo of the Model C.

This has the threading chart for the Model B and C.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/page6.html
The text lists the gear set sizes.

The "stud gear" is on the outer end of the stud that holds the
swinging plate which selects forward, reverse or off. The "screw gear"
is the gear attached to the end of the leadscrew.
When the chart shows 18 and 72 tooth gears on the same pivot they are
attached together and rotate at the same speed, making a 4:1
reduction.

Thanks Jim, I appreciate it. Just out of curiosity, how much would you
expect to pay for something like this, assuming it isn't too terribly worn,
but without any change gears? (assuming I'm not an Iggy or Gunner)

Jon

Ecnerwal wrote:

When the seller said "comes with gearing, is not quick change" that
means change gears - A box or rack of gears that you need to change -
ie, take a wrench, remove this gear, add that gear, get this feed or
thread. There's usually a chart to tell you which gears to use where.

Quick change involve gears that you can "quickly change" between by
using a lever system. No box or rack of separate gears. No wrench.

As for changing the speed of the headstock, you move the flat belt to
different pulleys. Has nothing to do with the gearing, other than the
back gears.

Ahh, okay, I get it now. I should have known that (I think I got too
excited seeing an old lathe locally).

Thanks!

Jon

RoyJ wrote:
This appears to be a loose change gear lathe, you MUST get a stack of
8 or 9 gears as part of the tooling that comes with the lathe.

I'm not a SB lathe user, not sure if this comes with babbit or ball
bearing headstock, looks like a babbit set up, someone else will need
to chime in. A ball bearing headstock will have the spindle sticking
out of a 4" or so diameter casting, a babbit version will be half
that.
A worn babbit setup for a newbie is disaster. Nothing but grief. You
should be able to put a pry bar under the chuck and lift up, get no
more than .001" or so. Any more and either pass on it or plan on
learning how to repair things.

Around here a Logan or SB setup in moderate shape is low hundreds
($200 to $400) as a fair price. Figure almost double that by the time
you replace a headstock bearing, add in a nice toolpost, some boring
bars from Enco, and a nice collection of tool bits.

Cool, thanks Roy. If I go look at it, maybe I should bring my mag base and
indicator to see how much the chuck wiggles around. I'll try to figure out
the difference between babbiit and bearings.

This one in particular, the fellow is asking $650. I don't know how much of
that is what he expects it to be worth, and how much of that is wiggle room.
He did say it doesn't look like it has been used much (I don't think he has
used it much, if at all, himself), but I've heard that song before....

Thanks again,

Jon

On Dec 16, 10:55*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
Ecnerwal wrote:

When the seller said "comes with gearing, is not quick change" that
means change gears - A box or rack of gears that you need to change -
ie, take a wrench, remove this gear, add that gear, get this feed or
thread. There's usually a chart to tell you which gears to use where.

Quick change involve gears that you can "quickly change" between by
using a lever system. No box or rack of separate gears. No wrench.

As for changing the speed of the headstock, you move the flat belt to
different pulleys. Has nothing to do with the gearing, other than the
back gears.

Ahh, okay, I get it now. *I should have known that (I think I got too
excited seeing an old lathe locally).

Thanks!

Jon

As Enerwal said, the change gears are used for threading. You need
the countershaft, motor and drive belt (assuming it's a bench mount
lathe) to change the speed of the spindle. The countershaft and motor
are not shown in the picture you posted. On a bench mount lathe the
countershaft assembly is usually mounted to the table, supports the
motor, and swings back to allow you to put tension on the spindle
drive belt.

For $650 I’d expect to get the change gears and more accessories --
maybe even a drawbar and collets (but that's from my own experience).
Also, you should check that the teeth on the back gears are not
cracked or missing (common). The serial # is usually stamped on the
right front along the ways if you want to find when it was
manufactured.

Your plan to bring your indicator to inspect the lathe made me
remember advice that Dave Ficken gave. This might be worth reading:
http://www.mermac.com/

PS: Still it might be worth a visit. Everybody needs to start
somewhere.

Denis G. wrote:

As Enerwal said, the change gears are used for threading. You need
the countershaft, motor and drive belt (assuming it's a bench mount
lathe) to change the speed of the spindle. The countershaft and motor
are not shown in the picture you posted. On a bench mount lathe the
countershaft assembly is usually mounted to the table, supports the
motor, and swings back to allow you to put tension on the spindle
drive belt.

For $650 I’d expect to get the change gears and more accessories --
maybe even a drawbar and collets (but that's from my own experience).
Also, you should check that the teeth on the back gears are not
cracked or missing (common). The serial # is usually stamped on the
right front along the ways if you want to find when it was
manufactured.

Your plan to bring your indicator to inspect the lathe made me
remember advice that Dave Ficken gave. This might be worth reading:
http://www.mermac.com/

PS: Still it might be worth a visit. Everybody needs to start
somewhere.

Thanks Denis. It is supposed to come with a 3/4 HP motor, and be a
"complete set up for lineshaft operation."

I don't think I would give him $650 for just the lathe without anything
else, but I'm wondering what a fair price might be. Maybe $400, I don't
know.

Jon

On Dec 17, 2:20*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
...

I don't think I would give him $650 for just the lathe without anything
else, but I'm wondering what a fair price might be. *Maybe $400, I don't
know.

Jon

I guessed $700 for the asking price and considered writing a range of
$200 to $1200. I only see what's on the tags, not what the buyers
actually paid.

What's the condition of the 3 and 4 jaw chucks? New chucks cost me
nearly as much as the lathe and the steady rest was another $100. Does
it have a tool post?

jsw

I picked up a lathe from work (brand not important)that had been used in
the weld shop to turn parts for weld fixtures. Babbit head, about .020"
play. Piece of trash, sold it as soon as I could. Later bought a mid
40's Logan 200 for $300 replaced the headstock bearing, new 3 jaw chuck,
Chinese quick change post, a decent drill chuck for the tail stock, and
a nice collection of tool bits for another $300 or so. It's not as heavy
duty as the big ones at work but it's really nice to do a quick part or
two late at night.

$650 is a preminum price for one with loose change gears and no tooling.
I say no tooling since there isn't even a tool post on the crossfeed.
The pic shows a 3 jaw chuck sitting on the dolly, the Logan I mentioned
came with a very trashed out 3 jaw, scroll was badly worn, .020" runnout
depending on what size piece you chucked up.

Jon Danniken wrote:
RoyJ wrote:
This appears to be a loose change gear lathe, you MUST get a stack of
8 or 9 gears as part of the tooling that comes with the lathe.

I'm not a SB lathe user, not sure if this comes with babbit or ball
bearing headstock, looks like a babbit set up, someone else will need
to chime in. A ball bearing headstock will have the spindle sticking
out of a 4" or so diameter casting, a babbit version will be half
that.
A worn babbit setup for a newbie is disaster. Nothing but grief. You
should be able to put a pry bar under the chuck and lift up, get no
more than .001" or so. Any more and either pass on it or plan on
learning how to repair things.

Around here a Logan or SB setup in moderate shape is low hundreds
($200 to $400) as a fair price. Figure almost double that by the time
you replace a headstock bearing, add in a nice toolpost, some boring
bars from Enco, and a nice collection of tool bits.

Cool, thanks Roy. If I go look at it, maybe I should bring my mag base and
indicator to see how much the chuck wiggles around. I'll try to figure out
the difference between babbiit and bearings.

This one in particular, the fellow is asking $650. I don't know how much of
that is what he expects it to be worth, and how much of that is wiggle room.
He did say it doesn't look like it has been used much (I don't think he has
used it much, if at all, himself), but I've heard that song before....

Thanks again,

Jon

The page you mentioned:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/
has a babbit head with loose change gears and no power feed as the first
picture. The second picture has the quick change gear box at the lower
left of the bed. It also has the power cross feed: there is a selector
lever with 3 positions on the side of the carriage. Print out a copy of
that page when you go look at it.

Jon Danniken wrote:
Ecnerwal wrote:
When the seller said "comes with gearing, is not quick change" that
means change gears - A box or rack of gears that you need to change -
ie, take a wrench, remove this gear, add that gear, get this feed or
thread. There's usually a chart to tell you which gears to use where.

Quick change involve gears that you can "quickly change" between by
using a lever system. No box or rack of separate gears. No wrench.

As for changing the speed of the headstock, you move the flat belt to
different pulleys. Has nothing to do with the gearing, other than the
back gears.

Ahh, okay, I get it now. I should have known that (I think I got too
excited seeing an old lathe locally).

Thanks!

Jon

Jim Wilkins wrote:

I guessed $700 for the asking price and considered writing a range of
$200 to $1200. I only see what's on the tags, not what the buyers
actually paid.

What's the condition of the 3 and 4 jaw chucks? New chucks cost me
nearly as much as the lathe and the steady rest was another $100. Does
it have a tool post?

Thanks Jim. I will have to see the condition of the chucks. It does come
with a steady rest, and he told me comes with tool post and tool holders.

Jon

RoyJ wrote:
The page you mentioned:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/
has a babbit head with loose change gears and no power feed as the
first picture. The second picture has the quick change gear box at
the lower left of the bed. It also has the power cross feed: there is
a selector lever with 3 positions on the side of the carriage. Print
out a copy of that page when you go look at it.

Thanks Roy. I looked at some pictures last night, and if I am correct, the
babbitt type has a top held on by two screws, like the way a crankshaft is
held in it's journal. I'll look for that.

Jon

RoyJ wrote:
I picked up a lathe from work (brand not important)that had been used
in the weld shop to turn parts for weld fixtures. Babbit head, about
.020" play. Piece of trash, sold it as soon as I could. Later bought
a mid 40's Logan 200 for $300 replaced the headstock bearing, new 3
jaw chuck, Chinese quick change post, a decent drill chuck for the
tail stock, and a nice collection of tool bits for another $300 or
so. It's not as heavy duty as the big ones at work but it's really
nice to do a quick part or two late at night.

$650 is a preminum price for one with loose change gears and no
tooling. I say no tooling since there isn't even a tool post on the
crossfeed. The pic shows a 3 jaw chuck sitting on the dolly, the
Logan I mentioned came with a very trashed out 3 jaw, scroll was
badly worn, .020" runnout depending on what size piece you chucked up.

Thanks Roy. I'll have to see if it comes with the gears or not; no gears is
really going to drop the price down on this one.

Jon

On Dec 17, 2:24*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
...

Thanks Roy. *I'll have to see if it comes with the gears or not; no gears is
really going to drop the price down on this one.

Jon

This Army manual is little more than a reprint of South Bend's:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...barmylathe.pdf

Maintenance and adjustment instructions are scattered throughout it.

jsw

It more than likely comes with the 'lantern' style tool post with a
left, right, and straight holder. It's a start but you would really like
a quick change:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-2253
About $100 on sale.

The steady rest is a very nice addition but rarely used. One of those
"when you need it ya gotta have it things"

Jon Danniken wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
I guessed $700 for the asking price and considered writing a range of
$200 to $1200. I only see what's on the tags, not what the buyers
actually paid.

What's the condition of the 3 and 4 jaw chucks? New chucks cost me
nearly as much as the lathe and the steady rest was another $100. Does
it have a tool post?

Thanks Jim. I will have to see the condition of the chucks. It does come
with a steady rest, and he told me comes with tool post and tool holders.

Jon

On 12/17/2009 10:12 AM, RoyJ wrote:
The page you mentioned:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/
has a babbit head with loose change gears and no power feed as the first
picture.

Roy,

The "Workshop" series of lathes have hard steel spindles in cast iron
(the headstock itself) bearings. They last for decades.

Kevin Gallimore

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 17, 2:24 pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
...

Thanks Roy. I'll have to see if it comes with the gears or not; no
gears is really going to drop the price down on this one.

Jon

This Army manual is little more than a reprint of South Bend's:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...barmylathe.pdf

Maintenance and adjustment instructions are scattered throughout it.

Ooooh, thanks Jim, that one's a keeper!

Jon

RoyJ wrote:
It more than likely comes with the 'lantern' style tool post with a
left, right, and straight holder. It's a start but you would really
like a quick change:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-2253
About $100 on sale.

Awesome, thanks Roy, I appreciate it.

Jon

axolotl wrote:
On 12/17/2009 10:12 AM, RoyJ wrote:
The page you mentioned:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/
has a babbit head with loose change gears and no power feed as the
first picture.

Roy,

The "Workshop" series of lathes have hard steel spindles in cast iron
(the headstock itself) bearings. They last for decades.

You mean there isn't a "real" bearing so much as it is just steel running on
cast iron? I'm pretty ignorant about metallurgy, and I apologize if I'm not
educated enough to notice sarcasm, but am I correct in thinking that is a
bad thing?

Jon

On 12/18/2009 1:48 AM, Jon Danniken wrote:

You mean there isn't a "real" bearing so much as it is just steel running on
cast iron? I'm pretty ignorant about metallurgy, and I apologize if I'm not
educated enough to notice sarcasm, but am I correct in thinking that is a
bad thing?

It is a "real" bearing that works quite well at the low speeds at which
these lathes operate. The competition of the time (Atlas) used ball
bearings to avoid precision finishing and make the lathe cheaper to
manufacture. The 9" Workshop was sold for around 40 years, and may very
well be the most popular lathe on the planet.

Here is Mr. Wells repository of SB data:
http://www.wswells.com/index.html

Kevin Gallimore

On Dec 18, 1:48*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
...
You mean there isn't a "real" bearing so much as it is just steel running on
cast iron? *I'm pretty ignorant about metallurgy, and I apologize if I'm not
educated enough to notice sarcasm, *but am I correct in thinking that is a
bad thing?

Jon

If designed correctly, the spindle pulls in and floats on a film of
oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrodynamic_lubrication

Nearly a century of evidence says that South Bend got it right.

jsw

axolotl wrote:
On 12/18/2009 1:48 AM, Jon Danniken wrote:

You mean there isn't a "real" bearing so much as it is just steel
running on cast iron? I'm pretty ignorant about metallurgy, and I
apologize if I'm not educated enough to notice sarcasm, but am I
correct in thinking that is a bad thing?

It is a "real" bearing that works quite well at the low speeds at
which these lathes operate. The competition of the time (Atlas) used
ball bearings to avoid precision finishing and make the lathe cheaper
to manufacture. The 9" Workshop was sold for around 40 years, and may
very well be the most popular lathe on the planet.

Here is Mr. Wells repository of SB data:
http://www.wswells.com/index.html

Okay, thanks, didn't know the longevity of that as a bearing surface.

Jon

But only if you take care of it and oil it properly. something to check
on a used lathe.

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 18, 1:48 am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
...
You mean there isn't a "real" bearing so much as it is just steel running on
cast iron? I'm pretty ignorant about metallurgy, and I apologize if I'm not
educated enough to notice sarcasm, but am I correct in thinking that is a
bad thing?

Jon

If designed correctly, the spindle pulls in and floats on a film of
oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrodynamic_lubrication

Nearly a century of evidence says that South Bend got it right.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" skrev i en meddelelse
...
On Dec 17, 2:24 pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
...

Thanks Roy. I'll have to see if it comes with the gears or not; no gears
is
really going to drop the price down on this one.

Jon

This Army manual is little more than a reprint of South Bend's:
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...barmylathe.pdf

Maintenance and adjustment instructions are scattered throughout it.


That really is a keeper, will come handy with my 9".
Thanks.



--
Uffe Bærentsen