Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

Chris

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

Chris

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

Chris

That looks scary. Particularly braking. A dive buddy of mine from hard hat
days came from Michigan. His brother built race engines, and hillclimb
Jeeps. He took one of the big Olds Toronado front wheel drive engines,
bolted it onto a tubular frame chassis on the rear, put ice lugs on it, and
they used to ride out to their ice shack at 120 mph. THAT was one narly
looking beast. Had ice lug tires on the back as big as dragster slicks.
Spikes about 2" long.

Never rode in it. Never wanted to.

Steve

Steve B wrote:

That looks scary. Particularly braking. A dive buddy of mine from hard hat
days came from Michigan. His brother built race engines, and hillclimb
Jeeps. He took one of the big Olds Toronado front wheel drive engines,
bolted it onto a tubular frame chassis on the rear, put ice lugs on it, and
they used to ride out to their ice shack at 120 mph. THAT was one narly
looking beast. Had ice lug tires on the back as big as dragster slicks.
Spikes about 2" long.

Sounds wild. Would have loved to have seen it!

When I first saw those plans, I imagined a vehicle that could travel on
snow as well as ice. Like a snowmobile. Am I wrong or can some
propeller-driven sleds do this?

Chris

Prop drive and snow really don't mix very well, the friction on the snow
is much higher than the skates on a decent ice boat or motorized
derivation like these are. Any of the prop style machines should be
capable of the 50mph to 75 mph range on ice.

back in the 50's, a typical snowmobile went 25 mph on steel tracks, the
Tucker snow cats were about the same speed. These days you can get stock
sleds up to the 120 range or more. A buddy of mine has his personal sled
that goes 160 or so. He wrenches for a race team doing sleds on grass.
(Hey, what else do you do when it's not white out??)

I used to sell for a supplier of snowmobile components used by one of
the major manufacturers. All the high end sleds used normalized 4130 for
the suspension components. Checking the specs, it's half again stronger
than the equivalent 1018 drawn tube but hardly worth the extra money.
But when you look at the impact strength at -40F, it's almost 10x
higher. Keeps the guys from breaking suspension parts when you hit a
pressure ridge at 100mph late at night.

Christopher Tidy wrote:
Steve B wrote:

That looks scary. Particularly braking. A dive buddy of mine from
hard hat days came from Michigan. His brother built race engines, and
hillclimb Jeeps. He took one of the big Olds Toronado front wheel
drive engines, bolted it onto a tubular frame chassis on the rear, put
ice lugs on it, and they used to ride out to their ice shack at 120
mph. THAT was one narly looking beast. Had ice lug tires on the back
as big as dragster slicks. Spikes about 2" long.

Sounds wild. Would have loved to have seen it!

When I first saw those plans, I imagined a vehicle that could travel on
snow as well as ice. Like a snowmobile. Am I wrong or can some
propeller-driven sleds do this?

Chris

RoyJ wrote:
Prop drive and snow really don't mix very well, the friction on the snow
is much higher than the skates on a decent ice boat or motorized
derivation like these are. Any of the prop style machines should be
capable of the 50mph to 75 mph range on ice.

back in the 50's, a typical snowmobile went 25 mph on steel tracks, the
Tucker snow cats were about the same speed. These days you can get stock
sleds up to the 120 range or more. A buddy of mine has his personal sled
that goes 160 or so. He wrenches for a race team doing sleds on grass.
(Hey, what else do you do when it's not white out??)

Now that's an idea. Limited to grass in good weather, though :-(.

I used to sell for a supplier of snowmobile components used by one of
the major manufacturers. All the high end sleds used normalized 4130 for
the suspension components. Checking the specs, it's half again stronger
than the equivalent 1018 drawn tube but hardly worth the extra money.
But when you look at the impact strength at -40F, it's almost 10x
higher. Keeps the guys from breaking suspension parts when you hit a
pressure ridge at 100mph late at night.

For once, I found some good stuff on YouTube. This is what I had in
mind. Old school, maybe inefficient, but appealing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofe-G6imaIQ

There's also a snow mobile built using plans from Popular Science magazine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI6m3LWm1d0

Chris

When I first saw those plans, I imagined a vehicle that could travel on
snow as well as ice. Like a snowmobile. Am I wrong or can some
propeller-driven sleds do this?

Depends on where you are. Lots of things work well on the flats, but here in
the Sierras, it is a bit challenging.
We like to ride about 50 miles south of where the Donner party had their
mis-adventure.
Some days we can climb any mountain with our 20 year old snowmobiles, but
most days we have limitations.
Lakes at 10000 Ft are not frozen enough for us to go out on, but we do cross
shallow creeks.
I am going up tomorrow.

Plenty of Archimedes screw vehicles have been tried, here is an interesting
one, later in the film chainguards appear
http://www.flixxy.com/snow-vehicle-concept.htm


--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:09:25 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

Chris

That looks scary. Particularly braking.

Indeed. BUT, one could put wheels and brake hubs on it and run it on
abandoned airfields or grassy fields, eh? Non-aerodynamic, it
probably slows considerably quickly when the prop isn't turning much.


A dive buddy of mine from hard hat
days came from Michigan. His brother built race engines, and hillclimb
Jeeps. He took one of the big Olds Toronado front wheel drive engines,
bolted it onto a tubular frame chassis on the rear, put ice lugs on it, and
they used to ride out to their ice shack at 120 mph. THAT was one narly
looking beast. Had ice lug tires on the back as big as dragster slicks.
Spikes about 2" long.

Never rode in it. Never wanted to.

Nope, not if it could dig holes in the ice and dunk/drown you for it.

--
Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm).
-----------

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:41:14 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

Hey, just build one and take it up Ben Nevis for the day, Chris.
That's a good lad.

P.S: I've heard that it snows in the UK about as much as it does in
Southern California. If I should ever wish to visit it, there is snow
on Mt. Ashland during the winter and spring, and that's within an
hour's drive of me here in Southern Oregon.

--
Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm).
-----------

Larry Jaques wrote:

P.S: I've heard that it snows in the UK about as much as it does in
Southern California. If I should ever wish to visit it, there is snow
on Mt. Ashland during the winter and spring, and that's within an
hour's drive of me here in Southern Oregon.

Yes, but the lack of snow is made up for by rain. I don't think that
happens in So. Cal., does it?

It probably snows here once a year, but it doesn't last long.

Chris

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 02:43:30 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:

P.S: I've heard that it snows in the UK about as much as it does in
Southern California. If I should ever wish to visit it, there is snow
on Mt. Ashland during the winter and spring, and that's within an
hour's drive of me here in Southern Oregon.

Yes, but the lack of snow is made up for by rain. I don't think that
happens in So. Cal., does it?

It's a desert. 15" a year. Well, in a monsoonal year, anyway.


It probably snows here once a year, but it doesn't last long.

Ditto here in So Oregon. We occasionally see flakes but it seldom
sticks around long enough to build up on surfaces (twice in my 7 years
here, IIRC.)

--
Indifference to evidence: Climate alarmists have become brilliantly
adept at changing their terms to suit their convenience. So it's
"global warming" when there's a heat wave, but it's "climate change"
when there's a cold snap. The earth has registered no discernable
warming in the past 10 years: Very well then, they say, natural
variability must be the cause. But as for the warming that did occur
in the 1980s and 1990s, that plainly was evidence of man-made warming.
Am I missing something here? --Brett Stephens, WSJ Opinion 12/09/09

Christopher Tidy wrote:

Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

It will be -2F tonight. That is -18.9C for your frame of reference. I don't remember the
sled in the Hardy Boys. I *thought* I had read them all before I started reading Nancy
Drew

I gave up on going fast in the cold years ago.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote:

Christopher Tidy wrote:

Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

It will be -2F tonight. That is -18.9C for your frame of reference. I don't remember the
sled in the Hardy Boys. I *thought* I had read them all before I started reading Nancy
Drew


As long as you didn't read the'Nancy Boys' books. ;-)


--
Offworld checks no longer accepted!

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

As long as you didn't read the'Nancy Boys' books. ;-)

I'm afraid to even ask what that is.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

As long as you didn't read the'Nancy Boys' books. ;-)

I'm afraid to even ask what that is.


The punch line from an old 'Saturday Night Live' skit about the
network canceling 'The hardy Boys' and 'Nancy Drew' series. "But on the
bright side, they are going combine the shows into 'The Nancy Boys'!"
I think it was done by Dan Ackroid.


--
Offworld checks no longer accepted!

In article ,
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Wes wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

As long as you didn't read the'Nancy Boys' books. ;-)

I'm afraid to even ask what that is.


The punch line from an old 'Saturday Night Live' skit about the
network canceling 'The hardy Boys' and 'Nancy Drew' series. "But on the
bright side, they are going combine the shows into 'The Nancy Boys'!"
I think it was done by Dan Ackroid.

Well, there _is_ a rather cute novel named The Ananzi Boys which uses
several African etc. trickster myths. Not a bad read.

Wes wrote:
Christopher Tidy wrote:


Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?


It will be -2F tonight. That is -18.9C for your frame of reference. I don't remember the
sled in the Hardy Boys. I *thought* I had read them all before I started reading Nancy
Drew

Just had a look through my collection. The sled is in #33, "The Yellow
Feather Mystery" (original text version). Built by Chet, as you might
imagine :-).

Chris

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Christopher Tidy wrote:

Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

It will be -2F tonight. That is -18.9C for your frame of reference. I
don't remember the
sled in the Hardy Boys. I *thought* I had read them all before I started
reading Nancy
Drew

I bought a few at Costco for my son. Mrs. Hardy is slim, attractive and
always serves the guests and defers to her husband. They have one fat friend
who is obsessed with food, and the bad guy was a typical Spanish type, small
and excitable.....

On 12/16/2009 10:20 PM, ATP* wrote:

I bought a few at Costco for my son. Mrs. Hardy is slim, attractive and
always serves the guests and defers to her husband. They have one fat friend
who is obsessed with food, and the bad guy was a typical Spanish type, small
and excitable.....

You need to find the originals at a used book store. Much more
interesting. When my son was (perhaps?) 8, I asked him what was on his
Christmas list. The answer? "An ultralight airplane and a revolver".
Frank Hardy had a revolver.

Ed started this... I went off on a jihad to find a photo of a propeller
driven iceboat on the Navesink...puller, not pusher...didn't find it.

There appears to be a fair amount of coincidental places in the Hardy
Boys books and south of Ed in the Bayshore area.

Stratemeyer (who ran the syndicate that published the Hardy Boys books)
has been reported to have had a summer house in Atlantic Highlands
(Bayport). The old mill (on Whippoorwill Valley road), the Shore Road
(upper and lower Scenic Drive), The house on the cliff, the train to New
York, all point to the area.
But the books were ghostwritten by a Canadian. Go figure.

If you're a SF guy, Fritz Leiber uses Atlantic Highlands as Bayport in
Conjure Wife. At one time he lived on Avenue D.

Kevin Gallimore

"axolotl" wrote in message
...
On 12/16/2009 10:20 PM, ATP* wrote:

I bought a few at Costco for my son. Mrs. Hardy is slim, attractive and
always serves the guests and defers to her husband. They have one fat
friend
who is obsessed with food, and the bad guy was a typical Spanish type,
small
and excitable.....

You need to find the originals at a used book store. Much more
interesting. When my son was (perhaps?) 8, I asked him what was on his
Christmas list. The answer? "An ultralight airplane and a revolver". Frank
Hardy had a revolver.

Ed started this... I went off on a jihad to find a photo of a propeller
driven iceboat on the Navesink...puller, not pusher...didn't find it.

There appears to be a fair amount of coincidental places in the Hardy Boys
books and south of Ed in the Bayshore area.

Stratemeyer (who ran the syndicate that published the Hardy Boys books)
has been reported to have had a summer house in Atlantic Highlands
(Bayport). The old mill (on Whippoorwill Valley road), the Shore Road
(upper and lower Scenic Drive), The house on the cliff, the train to New
York, all point to the area.
But the books were ghostwritten by a Canadian. Go figure.

If you're a SF guy, Fritz Leiber uses Atlantic Highlands as Bayport in
Conjure Wife. At one time he lived on Avenue D.

Kevin Gallimore

Did he fish for stripers or bluefish? g Say "Atlantic Highlands," and
that's what I think of. 'Fish on the brain, especially in this rotten cold
weather...

--
Ed Huntress

On 12/17/2009 7:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 12/16/2009 10:20 PM, ATP* wrote:

I bought a few at Costco for my son. Mrs. Hardy is slim, attractive and
always serves the guests and defers to her husband. They have one fat
friend
who is obsessed with food, and the bad guy was a typical Spanish type,
small
and excitable.....

You need to find the originals at a used book store. Much more
interesting. When my son was (perhaps?) 8, I asked him what was on his
Christmas list. The answer? "An ultralight airplane and a revolver". Frank
Hardy had a revolver.

Ed started this... I went off on a jihad to find a photo of a propeller
driven iceboat on the Navesink...puller, not pusher...didn't find it.

There appears to be a fair amount of coincidental places in the Hardy Boys
books and south of Ed in the Bayshore area.

Stratemeyer (who ran the syndicate that published the Hardy Boys books)
has been reported to have had a summer house in Atlantic Highlands
(Bayport). The old mill (on Whippoorwill Valley road), the Shore Road
(upper and lower Scenic Drive), The house on the cliff, the train to New
York, all point to the area.
But the books were ghostwritten by a Canadian. Go figure.

If you're a SF guy, Fritz Leiber uses Atlantic Highlands as Bayport in
Conjure Wife. At one time he lived on Avenue D.

Kevin Gallimore

Did he fish for stripers or bluefish?g Say "Atlantic Highlands," and
that's what I think of. 'Fish on the brain, especially in this rotten cold
weather...

On 12/17/2009 7:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Did he fish for stripers or bluefish?g Say "Atlantic Highlands," and
that's what I think of. 'Fish on the brain, especially in this rotten cold
weather...

Let's try this again.

Recorded history is silent on the subject of these two authors and their
fish. During the time described one could probably eat the fish that
could be caught in the nearby waters. Moreover, a plethora of writers,
from Melville to Hemingway to Brautigan, have shown the intimate
relationship between authors and the slimy denizens of the deep.
Clearly, one sees here strong circumstantial evidence pointing to both
wetting a line. But there is a more important question here- stripers or
bluefish? It is possible, both men being non-native, that they would try
to snare these species. Locals know that stripers or bluefish are only
good for feeding to the cat. It is more likely that as authors, they
were attracted to the bottom dwelling types.


And for large metal apparatus and the Hardy Boys, I had my wedding
reception in the building that has "The Disappearing Floor".

Kevin Gallimore

"axolotl" wrote in message
...
On 12/16/2009 10:20 PM, ATP* wrote:

I bought a few at Costco for my son. Mrs. Hardy is slim, attractive and
always serves the guests and defers to her husband. They have one fat
friend
who is obsessed with food, and the bad guy was a typical Spanish type,
small
and excitable.....

You need to find the originals at a used book store. Much more
interesting.

I didn't realize that the Hardy Boys novels I read as a kid were revisions
from 1959 on. Also dug up this interesting reference page:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Hardy_Boys

axolotl wrote:
On 12/16/2009 10:20 PM, ATP* wrote:

I bought a few at Costco for my son. Mrs. Hardy is slim, attractive and
always serves the guests and defers to her husband. They have one fat
friend
who is obsessed with food, and the bad guy was a typical Spanish type,
small
and excitable.....


You need to find the originals at a used book store. Much more
interesting. When my son was (perhaps?) 8, I asked him what was on his
Christmas list. The answer? "An ultralight airplane and a revolver".
Frank Hardy had a revolver.

The originals are much better. In the revised books they substituted
foreign travel for decent writing.

Ed started this... I went off on a jihad to find a photo of a propeller
driven iceboat on the Navesink...puller, not pusher...didn't find it.

There appears to be a fair amount of coincidental places in the Hardy
Boys books and south of Ed in the Bayshore area.

Stratemeyer (who ran the syndicate that published the Hardy Boys books)
has been reported to have had a summer house in Atlantic Highlands
(Bayport). The old mill (on Whippoorwill Valley road), the Shore Road
(upper and lower Scenic Drive), The house on the cliff, the train to New
York, all point to the area.
But the books were ghostwritten by a Canadian. Go figure.

Are you talking about the area around the Bayport, NY? I read that the
town itself is pretty different from the Bayport of the books.

It has finally snowed here. 1/2 inch, maybe 1 inch. Not enough for a
propeller sled yet. But I just acquired another, more climate-suitable
project as an early Christmas present...

Enjoy Christmas!

Chris

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
axolotl wrote:
On 12/16/2009 10:20 PM, ATP* wrote:

I bought a few at Costco for my son. Mrs. Hardy is slim, attractive and
always serves the guests and defers to her husband. They have one fat
friend
who is obsessed with food, and the bad guy was a typical Spanish type,
small
and excitable.....


You need to find the originals at a used book store. Much more
interesting. When my son was (perhaps?) 8, I asked him what was on his
Christmas list. The answer? "An ultralight airplane and a revolver".
Frank Hardy had a revolver.

The originals are much better. In the revised books they substituted
foreign travel for decent writing.

Ed started this... I went off on a jihad to find a photo of a propeller
driven iceboat on the Navesink...puller, not pusher...didn't find it.

There appears to be a fair amount of coincidental places in the Hardy
Boys books and south of Ed in the Bayshore area.

Stratemeyer (who ran the syndicate that published the Hardy Boys books)
has been reported to have had a summer house in Atlantic Highlands
(Bayport). The old mill (on Whippoorwill Valley road), the Shore Road
(upper and lower Scenic Drive), The house on the cliff, the train to New
York, all point to the area.
But the books were ghostwritten by a Canadian. Go figure.

Are you talking about the area around the Bayport, NY? I read that the
town itself is pretty different from the Bayport of the books.

It has finally snowed here. 1/2 inch, maybe 1 inch. Not enough for a
propeller sled yet. But I just acquired another, more climate-suitable
project as an early Christmas present...

Enjoy Christmas!

Chris


I understand the latest Hardy boys are very close to the originals. Some
guy looked at his kids Hardy Boys book and realized it had been PC'ed. Got
the rights to the originals and got a reissue of the originals.
http://www.mysterynet.com/books/testimony/hardyboys/
Seems to tell the story.

On 12/23/2009 9:48 PM, Christopher Tidy wrote:

Are you talking about the area around the Bayport, NY? I read that the
town itself is pretty different from the Bayport of the books.

I am talking about Atlantic Highlands, NJ, the mythical "Bayport" in
several books.

If you are short of snow, we in Jersey (as in New) can spare you a
couple of feet.

Kevin Gallimore

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...
Just found these plans. Way cool. If I lived somewhere icy, I'd build one:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/go-kart/pdf/Snowsled.pdf

Now I think the Hardy Boys had a fictional sled at one point, in a book
long ago. Anyone ever build a real one?

Chris


i wonder if any of the links that have been posted were for the prop driven
ice boat that i saw pictures of a while back but have no idea how to get
back there to post a link. i saw photos of a prop driven ice boat, i can't
even remember if it was a pusher or a tractor, that had a "whip" of (a
dozen?) kids behind on ice skates. i'd imagine anyone looking at that photo
these days (it may have even been posted here a couple years ago) would say
"WOW THAT LOOKS DANGEROUS!" was a funny old timey photo, where people did
stuff dangerous stuff like that without even a second thought. was funny.
wish i could post the link.

b.w.