On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how
I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions.

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how
I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions.


Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own
permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun
auction websites specifically state they wont ship to.

Shrug

Gunner

On Nov 25, 9:46*am, Gunner Asch wrote:


Bear in mind..that I live in California. *
Gunner

But you are thinking of fixing that.

Dan

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:58:00 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Nov 25, 9:46*am, Gunner Asch wrote:


Bear in mind..that I live in California. *
Gunner

But you are thinking of fixing that.

Dan
Indeed

Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:46:23 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how
I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions.


Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own
permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun
auction websites specifically state they wont ship to.

Shrug

That might be why fine custom firearms come from places other than
California. Other difficult venues for such activity might be New
York City, New Jersey, Washington DC and Chicago. So what?

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:09:44 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:46:23 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how
I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions.


Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own
permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun
auction websites specifically state they wont ship to.

Shrug

That might be why fine custom firearms come from places other than
California. Other difficult venues for such activity might be New
York City, New Jersey, Washington DC and Chicago. So what?


To be a gunsmith in California..is to live constantly under a microscope
held by antigunners. Ive known about 25 smiths since I moved here 30 yrs
ago. The ones that havent died..have moved to other states to run their
businesses.

Hostile Work Environment is not my idea of fun.


Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

Gunner Asch wrote:
(snip)
To be a gunsmith in California..is to live constantly under a microscope
held by antigunners. Ive known about 25 smiths since I moved here 30 yrs
ago. The ones that havent died..have moved to other states to run their
businesses.

Hostile Work Environment is not my idea of fun.


Gunner

Note that Idaho is one of the states where you can legally own fully
automatic weapons. It is also a low humidity area (at least Southern
Idaho), with about 10" annual precip. It might get above 105F a few days
in August, but most of the summer isn't likely to top the mid 90s.

Of course I moved from Idaho to Pennsylvania about 9 years ago to be an
apprentice blacksmith (which never worked out, but I'm still happy here),
so I'm not up on the current state of the economy there.

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:46:23 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how
I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions.


Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own
permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun
auction websites specifically state they wont ship to.

Shrug

Read your subject line, please.

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


Good post indeed.

Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the
tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start
slowing down.

it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are
NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just
a heads up.

As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I
hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff
all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal
of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom
smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and
so forth.

California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant
even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of
them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is
interested enough in replacing them.

I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from
scratch, upgraded/converted many more.

I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there
are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And
while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford
to have stock work done other than doing it themselves.

Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort
of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of
machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very
expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr
machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side
work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of
ones home is far cheaper.

Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that
way?

As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my
Real World persona....VBG

Gunner

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:36:07 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


Good post indeed.

Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the
tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start
slowing down.

it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are
NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just
a heads up.

By "scab" I meant unlicensed rather than non-union. In MN, electrical
work for others must be done by a licensed electrician. Perhaps it's
different in CA. That's not to say that plenty of illegal work isn't
done, just as many domestic and agri jobs are done by illegals.

As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I
hate working on vehicles.

What I said: you opted not to fix the truck. I don't wrench on
vehicles anymore either. But ability to do something is of no value
if you won't do it.

Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff
all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal
of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom
smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and
so forth.

California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths.

If you don't really intend to leave CA then my entire note is
irrelevant -- as is this entire thread.

We cant
even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of
them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is
interested enough in replacing them.

I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from
scratch, upgraded/converted many more.

I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there
are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And
while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford
to have stock work done other than doing it themselves.

There are smiths with 6-month backlogs of work in some parts of the
country. These are guys with reputations for good work and fair
prices. Not low prices, fair prices for value received. One such is a
guy in his late '70's in Elbow Lake, MN.

Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort
of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of
machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very
expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr
machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side
work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of
ones home is far cheaper.

Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that
way?

As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my
Real World persona....VBG

Suggesting that your claim of being honest may or may not be true?
VBG

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:56:58 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:36:07 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


Good post indeed.

Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the
tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start
slowing down.

it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are
NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just
a heads up.

By "scab" I meant unlicensed rather than non-union. In MN, electrical
work for others must be done by a licensed electrician. Perhaps it's
different in CA. That's not to say that plenty of illegal work isn't
done, just as many domestic and agri jobs are done by illegals.

As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I
hate working on vehicles.

What I said: you opted not to fix the truck. I don't wrench on
vehicles anymore either. But ability to do something is of no value
if you won't do it.

Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff
all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal
of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom
smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and
so forth.

California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths.

If you don't really intend to leave CA then my entire note is
irrelevant -- as is this entire thread.

We cant
even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of
them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is
interested enough in replacing them.

I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from
scratch, upgraded/converted many more.

I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there
are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And
while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford
to have stock work done other than doing it themselves.

There are smiths with 6-month backlogs of work in some parts of the
country. These are guys with reputations for good work and fair
prices. Not low prices, fair prices for value received. One such is a
guy in his late '70's in Elbow Lake, MN.

Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort
of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of
machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very
expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr
machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side
work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of
ones home is far cheaper.

Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that
way?

As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my
Real World persona....VBG

Suggesting that your claim of being honest may or may not be true?
VBG

No. Im always honest.

I just may not be as "vocifferous" when dealing with Leftards in real
life.

G

Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.


Good post indeed.

Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the
tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start
slowing down.

it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are
NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just
a heads up.

As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I
hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff
all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal
of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom
smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and
so forth.

California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant
even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of
them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is
interested enough in replacing them.

I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from
scratch, upgraded/converted many more.

I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there
are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And
while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford
to have stock work done other than doing it themselves.

Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort
of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of
machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very
expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr
machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side
work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of
ones home is far cheaper.

Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that
way?

As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my
Real World persona....VBG

Gunner


Let's see. Although he claims to be able to work like a young man he's
going on 60, and he's had a heart attack and a stroke. His job skills
are not translating into making money like they used to. So he's getting
old, his ability to make a good living is declining, and the economy is
in a bad way. It's obvious that he's someone who can no longer compete
and win in a capitalistic economic system. There are winners and losers
in that kind of system and while at one time he was able to win, meaning
make a good living, it is looking more and more like he won't be able to
find or do anything that will ever bring him in any kind of real money.
So he's now relegated to a class of people he always had contempt for,
those who are poor and can't make a go of it in a free market system.
It's time to face the facts. He's going to be poor because he can no
longer compete in the free market.

You can't help but wonder if this circumstance will finally show him the
weakness of a system where only the strongest, smartest, and luckiest,
can have good lives, and everybody else has to get by on the crumbs. He
probably never thought he would end up old, poor, and helpless, but
that's about where he is. The sad fact is that is where most Americans
wind up. That is what makes it so astonishing that they all seem to
think the capitalist system is so great. Most people end up losers and
yet they still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In a
system where most of the players end up losers one has to wonder why.
Are they just stupid or are they brainwashed?

Hawke

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
scrawled the following:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.
--snip--
Gunner
--snip--

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.

I'll bet that if he moved to somewhere outside of Vegas (similar
desert weather, though colder in winter), he'd easily have a chance
for a couple things:

1) Be hired by Ignazio Piazza as an instructor for training folks at
his Front Sight shooting city. (Not just a range, or so I've heard.)

2) With all his tooling and experience, fix guns and rig mechanisms
for the aforementioned folks or their clients.

You'd be an easily welcomed addition to Grass Pants, OR, too, Gunner,
but you'd spend half your time derusting all your stash.

--
It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare;
it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.
-- Seneca

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:48:59 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
scrawled the following:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.
--snip--
Gunner
--snip--

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.

I'll bet that if he moved to somewhere outside of Vegas (similar
desert weather, though colder in winter), he'd easily have a chance
for a couple things:

1) Be hired by Ignazio Piazza as an instructor for training folks at
his Front Sight shooting city. (Not just a range, or so I've heard.)

No..its "not just a range"...and thats not a bad idea at all.

2) With all his tooling and experience, fix guns and rig mechanisms
for the aforementioned folks or their clients.

You'd be an easily welcomed addition to Grass Pants, OR, too, Gunner,
but you'd spend half your time derusting all your stash.

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical,

No, he can't. He doesn't know watts from watermelon. Nor can he do
high-school level mechanical diagnostics either, as evidenced by his
failure to figure out if a vehicle problem is fuel or ignition.

but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.

Some good advice there. But you overlooked a couple of major points.
1. People who've proven that they're happy with a subsistence
lifestyle for decades, and who can't do a simple responsible thing
like making their property taxes a priority over smoking, aren't
really capable of starting over and doing it right. 2. Gummer's
background wouldn't pass muster with any serious review. Employers are
in a buyer's market, there's no reason to reach very low in the barrel
of applicants. The places I can envision him getting a job - wrecking
yard, muffler repair shop, etc. But he wouldn't last a week.

Face it - Gummer's had a tough row to hoe for as long as he's been
posting here. His response, as always, is more posting. 900 times last
week to this newsgroup alone. You're dreaming if you expect anything
other than more of the same.

Wayne

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:27:27 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical,

No, he can't. He doesn't know watts from watermelon. Nor can he do
high-school level mechanical diagnostics either, as evidenced by his
failure to figure out if a vehicle problem is fuel or ignition.

but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.

Some good advice there. But you overlooked a couple of major points.
1. People who've proven that they're happy with a subsistence
lifestyle for decades, and who can't do a simple responsible thing
like making their property taxes a priority over smoking, aren't
really capable of starting over and doing it right. 2. Gummer's
background wouldn't pass muster with any serious review. Employers are
in a buyer's market, there's no reason to reach very low in the barrel
of applicants. The places I can envision him getting a job - wrecking
yard, muffler repair shop, etc. But he wouldn't last a week.

Face it - Gummer's had a tough row to hoe for as long as he's been
posting here. His response, as always, is more posting. 900 times last
week to this newsgroup alone. You're dreaming if you expect anything
other than more of the same.

Wayne

I have no expectation one way or the other. I don't even give a damn
whether or not Gunner pays his taxes. I merely observe that he has
skills that are quite marketable and in demand right now and are
sustainable well past usual retirement age. Getting an FFL would be
obligatory. Finding work and establishing a reputation and growing
clientele outside of and well beyond CA would be the challenge.

I'll defer to you and others to judge and condemn.

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:11:11 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:27:27 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical,

No, he can't. He doesn't know watts from watermelon. Nor can he do
high-school level mechanical diagnostics either, as evidenced by his
failure to figure out if a vehicle problem is fuel or ignition.

but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.

Some good advice there. But you overlooked a couple of major points.
1. People who've proven that they're happy with a subsistence
lifestyle for decades, and who can't do a simple responsible thing
like making their property taxes a priority over smoking, aren't
really capable of starting over and doing it right. 2. Gummer's
background wouldn't pass muster with any serious review. Employers are
in a buyer's market, there's no reason to reach very low in the barrel
of applicants. The places I can envision him getting a job - wrecking
yard, muffler repair shop, etc. But he wouldn't last a week.

Face it - Gummer's had a tough row to hoe for as long as he's been
posting here. His response, as always, is more posting. 900 times last
week to this newsgroup alone. You're dreaming if you expect anything
other than more of the same.

Wayne

I have no expectation one way or the other.

You have hope, gawd knows why.

I don't even give a damn
whether or not Gunner pays his taxes.

His oldest debts *aren't* taxes. But it doesn't matter if it's taxes
or whatever bills, people who make a habit of ignoring their
responsibilities are unlikely to be good hires. Employers know that,
and these days it's easier than ever to weed out the applicants who
are most likely to be a waste of time. Not that it takes much work in
this case considering that gummy posted a sort of a resume where he
complains about people who are "sucking on a paycheck". Talk about a
red flag. Start his own biz? Forget it, he tried that and failed
spectacularly.

I merely observe that he has
skills that are quite marketable and in demand right now and are
sustainable well past usual retirement age. Getting an FFL would be
obligatory. Finding work and establishing a reputation and growing
clientele outside of and well beyond CA would be the challenge.

I doubt that he has sufficient skills to make a living at firearms. He
seems to struggle at telling the difference between net and gross. And
I know he doesn't have the will to succeed at anything that requires
diligence.

I'll defer to you and others to judge and condemn.

You've *already* judged... wrongly, but aren't willing to admit it. If
some "libtard', to use the term favored by gummy et al, were posting
the same sob stories here, a whole bunch of phony conservatives would
be on him like ants at a picnic. But since it's a self-professed
libertarian/conservative/"democrat" snorf who's making a mockery of
conservatism, some of you prefer to pretend that he can or might
change his stripes. It's fricken ludicrous, and you know it. Only
recently gummy refused to get up from his keyboard to do work that he
"hates", but this week he's going to pack up and start over in Idaho?
LOL Oh wait, he didn't say that he'd actually move, he just wants to
talk talk talk about it. Can it get any more ridiculous? Yes, it can
and it will.

Wayne

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:18:18 -0700, wrote:


I merely observe that he has
skills that are quite marketable and in demand right now and are
sustainable well past usual retirement age. Getting an FFL would be
obligatory. Finding work and establishing a reputation and growing
clientele outside of and well beyond CA would be the challenge.

I doubt that he has sufficient skills to make a living at firearms. He
seems to struggle at telling the difference between net and gross. And
I know he doesn't have the will to succeed at anything that requires
diligence.

I'll defer to you and others to judge and condemn.

You've *already* judged... wrongly, but aren't willing to admit it.

No, Wayne, I haven't. I would take as much or more joy in seeing
Gunner become a net contributor as you seem to in disparaging and
condemning. Whether or not that happens is entirely up to Gunner.
I've no doubt that he could do it if so motivated. I think he'll live
his life as he will without regard to your opinions or mine or anyone
else's. If I were in his place that's what I'd do. That's what
you're doing in your off-grid remote hide from social contact beyond
usenet.

I don't condone irresponsibility, far from it. But I can certainly
understand contempt for a government, society and populace that sends
young men off to battle and then spits on those that manage to return
alive however damaged. I don't necessarily agree with that attitude
but I certainly do understand it. I accept that you can't understand
that if you didn't experience it.

You ridiculed SteveB for being armed when he goes to Vegas since you
go there slick with no mishaps thus far. If you had a few pucker scars
your attitude might be rather different. Or maybe not, I don't know.

Your world view from your anonymously remote off-grid hide, posting
with a pseudonym, is clearly very narrow with near-zero tolerance.
Please accept that as a bit of perspective, not a criticism. Perhaps
your experience and education are limited, or perhaps you're capacity
for humanity is on a par with the coyotes around your AZ hide. If so,
that's how it is and how you are, oh well and so be it.

I don't need to win an argument on usenet. I disdain cleverbicker. I
merely offer the foregoing for your consideration, should you care to
engage intellect rather than obsession or political dogma. You clearly
have an operative intellect and active imagination.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:10:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:18:18 -0700, wrote:


I merely observe that he has
skills that are quite marketable and in demand right now and are
sustainable well past usual retirement age. Getting an FFL would be
obligatory. Finding work and establishing a reputation and growing
clientele outside of and well beyond CA would be the challenge.

I doubt that he has sufficient skills to make a living at firearms. He
seems to struggle at telling the difference between net and gross. And
I know he doesn't have the will to succeed at anything that requires
diligence.

I'll defer to you and others to judge and condemn.

You've *already* judged... wrongly, but aren't willing to admit it.

No, Wayne, I haven't. I would take as much or more joy in seeing
Gunner become a net contributor as you seem to in disparaging and
condemning. Whether or not that happens is entirely up to Gunner.
I've no doubt that he could do it if so motivated.

"If motivated". That's the key. If it hasn't happened yet, then it
isn't going to.

I think he'll live
his life as he will without regard to your opinions or mine or anyone
else's.

I disagree. I think it's possible that he might have made some changes
a long time ago if not for enablers like you. A single post from Ernie
at SEJW caused him to stop his political BS there. Take away his
approving audience and he might have used all the time he wasted on
Usenet for something productive. I've said it befo I think a lot of
you guys prefer his brand of entertainment to his success, and some of
you enjoy reading about his train-wreck lifestyle but won't ever admit
it.

If I were in his place that's what I'd do.

But you're not in his place. If you were then you wouldn't be wasting
your life on Usenet as he does.

That's what
you're doing in your off-grid remote hide from social contact beyond
usenet.

Oh please. I live 35 minutes driving from Walmart etc, and 12 miles
from a residential golf course subdivision. My social contacts beyond
Usenet take up more time than I'd like, but that's no different from
most people. Your need to pretend that I'm some kind of hermit is much
the same as gummer pretending that's he's a P.E. in everything but
cert. It's laughable.

I don't condone irresponsibility, far from it.

Baloney. Yesterday you wrote: "I don't even give a damn
whether or not Gunner pays his taxes". I suppose you'll say that not
caring is different from condoning. Well, it isn't to gummy, and
that's why you wrote it.

But I can certainly
understand contempt for a government, society and populace that sends
young men off to battle and then spits on those that manage to return
alive however damaged. I don't necessarily agree with that attitude
but I certainly do understand it.

So what? None of that has anything to do with gummer's problems. He's
his own worst enemy but he prefers to blame his issues on anyone and
everyone he can think of. His state is going broke, but he won't
accept that people like him are a huge part of the problem. Now he
hilariously pretends that his failure is somehow the fault of the
state, and that moving out could be a cure. Bloody hell.

I accept that you can't understand
that if you didn't experience it.

I understand more than you'll know, but that has nothing to do with
the subject at hand. You only put up these silly straw men because you
can't think of any better way to defend poor old gummy.

You ridiculed SteveB for being armed when he goes to Vegas since you
go there slick with no mishaps thus far. If you had a few pucker scars
your attitude might be rather different. Or maybe not, I don't know.

I ridiculed SteveB because his attitude is ridiculous. LV and
surrounding area has some 2 million people, the vast majority of which
don't feel the need for guns or police scanners in order to move
about. Face it, Steve is an overt racist, and his paranoia stems from
his hatred of minorities. He's just another irrationally fearful old
fart, something for which you seem to have a lot of empathy.

Your world view from your anonymously remote off-grid hide, posting
with a pseudonym, is clearly very narrow with near-zero tolerance.

I have lots of tolerance, too much in fact according to some of my
friends. But take a step back and look at what's going on here. Is
there anyone worth criticizing in this world? Of course there is. My
#1 is a person who's leeched more than anyone I've ever heard of, can
afford soda and cigarettes but not peanuts in property taxes, and who
advertises it all by wasting his life on Usenet. Your #1 is me. See
any difference?

Please accept that as a bit of perspective, not a criticism.

LOL Who do you think you're fooling? You must be up to a couple dozen
mentions of my "hide". Is that the best you can do?

Perhaps
your experience and education are limited,

It's because of my experience with deadbeats and BS artists that I was
able to recognize gummer for what he is.

or perhaps you're capacity
for humanity is on a par with the coyotes around your AZ hide.

Coyotes have a tendency to keep a low profile. If gummy were to
emulate that, we wouldn't be talking.

If so,
that's how it is and how you are, oh well and so be it.

Then why are you here?

I don't need to win an argument on usenet. I disdain cleverbicker. I
merely offer the foregoing for your consideration, should you care to
engage intellect rather than obsession or political dogma. You clearly
have an operative intellect and active imagination.

I'm happy to engage intellect. But you won't convince me you have one
by spinning tales about me. That's the kind of technique gummy uses.
It will work for you exactly as well as it works for him.

Wayne

On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:10:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:
snip
I would take as much or more joy in seeing
Gunner become a net contributor as you seem to in disparaging and
condemning.
snip
It is not the fault of the Gunners of the world that the pols
decided to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs, and now
everyone including the pols are paying the price.

Be reminded that it is not necessary to pay taxes to be a net
contributor to society, in spite of the massive amounts of
propaganda that this is the case.

It all depends on what the taxes are used for. In too many
jurisdictions most of the taxes simply line the pockets of the
pols and their pals, and the rest is used to buy votes. In these
cases, not paying taxes makes a bigger aggregate contribution
than paying taxes.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th
largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state
in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with
its Rust Belt.

And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair.

So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and
Id like to ask you folks for your input.

Some prelims...

Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved.

Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly
level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies,
can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial
electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc
etc.

Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper
work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter,
experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with
others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life
working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd.
Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on
the paycheck.

Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish
the job and ask for another.


So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being
here for 30+ yrs.

Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im
focused on at the moment.

If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em
in..Id be happy to look at them.

I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug

So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its
economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth.

Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace
that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and
eating regularly.

Anyone?

Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next
year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to
get there.

Gunner

I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on
what rather than where.

You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab
and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It
obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies,
you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't
appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I
rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry
young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation
and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck.
You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and
beyond.

Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If
you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You
know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and
you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The
people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who
appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have
them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in
recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since
the election, even in a down economy.

A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who
can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are
exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do
even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They
can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote
locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that
inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another
15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely
different from being 56. YMMV.

Hmmmmmm. Going to Texas and going into the gun business? Sounds like $$$
to me.

Steve