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Should I move to Idaho?
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im focused on at the moment. If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em in..Id be happy to look at them. I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth. Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and eating regularly. Anyone? Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to get there. Gunner I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on what rather than where. You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies, you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck. You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and beyond. Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. |
Should I move to Idaho?
"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im focused on at the moment. If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em in..Id be happy to look at them. I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth. Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and eating regularly. Anyone? Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to get there. Gunner I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on what rather than where. You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies, you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck. You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and beyond. Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions. |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im focused on at the moment. If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em in..Id be happy to look at them. I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth. Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and eating regularly. Anyone? Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to get there. Gunner I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on what rather than where. You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies, you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck. You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and beyond. Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Gunner |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote: A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions. Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun auction websites specifically state they wont ship to. Shrug Gunner |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
scrawled the following: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. --snip-- Gunner --snip-- Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. I'll bet that if he moved to somewhere outside of Vegas (similar desert weather, though colder in winter), he'd easily have a chance for a couple things: 1) Be hired by Ignazio Piazza as an instructor for training folks at his Front Sight shooting city. (Not just a range, or so I've heard.) 2) With all his tooling and experience, fix guns and rig mechanisms for the aforementioned folks or their clients. You'd be an easily welcomed addition to Grass Pants, OR, too, Gunner, but you'd spend half your time derusting all your stash. -- It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare; it is because we do not dare that they are difficult. -- Seneca |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Nov 25, 9:46*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
Bear in mind..that I live in California. * Gunner But you are thinking of fixing that. Dan |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im focused on at the moment. If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em in..Id be happy to look at them. I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth. Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and eating regularly. Anyone? Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to get there. Gunner I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on what rather than where. You can do commercial and industrial electrical, No, he can't. He doesn't know watts from watermelon. Nor can he do high-school level mechanical diagnostics either, as evidenced by his failure to figure out if a vehicle problem is fuel or ignition. but only as a scab and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies, you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck. You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and beyond. Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Some good advice there. But you overlooked a couple of major points. 1. People who've proven that they're happy with a subsistence lifestyle for decades, and who can't do a simple responsible thing like making their property taxes a priority over smoking, aren't really capable of starting over and doing it right. 2. Gummer's background wouldn't pass muster with any serious review. Employers are in a buyer's market, there's no reason to reach very low in the barrel of applicants. The places I can envision him getting a job - wrecking yard, muffler repair shop, etc. But he wouldn't last a week. Face it - Gummer's had a tough row to hoe for as long as he's been posting here. His response, as always, is more posting. 900 times last week to this newsgroup alone. You're dreaming if you expect anything other than more of the same. Wayne |
Should I move to Idaho?
"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im focused on at the moment. If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em in..Id be happy to look at them. I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth. Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and eating regularly. Anyone? Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to get there. Gunner I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on what rather than where. You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies, you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck. You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and beyond. Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Hmmmmmm. Going to Texas and going into the gun business? Sounds like $$$ to me. Steve |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:46:23 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions. Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun auction websites specifically state they wont ship to. Shrug That might be why fine custom firearms come from places other than California. Other difficult venues for such activity might be New York City, New Jersey, Washington DC and Chicago. So what? |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:36:07 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im focused on at the moment. If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em in..Id be happy to look at them. I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth. Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and eating regularly. Anyone? Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to get there. Gunner I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on what rather than where. You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies, you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck. You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and beyond. Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. By "scab" I meant unlicensed rather than non-union. In MN, electrical work for others must be done by a licensed electrician. Perhaps it's different in CA. That's not to say that plenty of illegal work isn't done, just as many domestic and agri jobs are done by illegals. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. What I said: you opted not to fix the truck. I don't wrench on vehicles anymore either. But ability to do something is of no value if you won't do it. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. If you don't really intend to leave CA then my entire note is irrelevant -- as is this entire thread. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. There are smiths with 6-month backlogs of work in some parts of the country. These are guys with reputations for good work and fair prices. Not low prices, fair prices for value received. One such is a guy in his late '70's in Elbow Lake, MN. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Suggesting that your claim of being honest may or may not be true? VBG |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:46:23 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions. Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun auction websites specifically state they wont ship to. Shrug Read your subject line, please. |
Should I move to Idaho?
|
Should I move to Idaho?
A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Gunner Let's see. Although he claims to be able to work like a young man he's going on 60, and he's had a heart attack and a stroke. His job skills are not translating into making money like they used to. So he's getting old, his ability to make a good living is declining, and the economy is in a bad way. It's obvious that he's someone who can no longer compete and win in a capitalistic economic system. There are winners and losers in that kind of system and while at one time he was able to win, meaning make a good living, it is looking more and more like he won't be able to find or do anything that will ever bring him in any kind of real money. So he's now relegated to a class of people he always had contempt for, those who are poor and can't make a go of it in a free market system. It's time to face the facts. He's going to be poor because he can no longer compete in the free market. You can't help but wonder if this circumstance will finally show him the weakness of a system where only the strongest, smartest, and luckiest, can have good lives, and everybody else has to get by on the crumbs. He probably never thought he would end up old, poor, and helpless, but that's about where he is. The sad fact is that is where most Americans wind up. That is what makes it so astonishing that they all seem to think the capitalist system is so great. Most people end up losers and yet they still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In a system where most of the players end up losers one has to wonder why. Are they just stupid or are they brainwashed? Hawke |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:48:59 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman scrawled the following: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. --snip-- Gunner --snip-- Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. I'll bet that if he moved to somewhere outside of Vegas (similar desert weather, though colder in winter), he'd easily have a chance for a couple things: 1) Be hired by Ignazio Piazza as an instructor for training folks at his Front Sight shooting city. (Not just a range, or so I've heard.) No..its "not just a range"...and thats not a bad idea at all. 2) With all his tooling and experience, fix guns and rig mechanisms for the aforementioned folks or their clients. You'd be an easily welcomed addition to Grass Pants, OR, too, Gunner, but you'd spend half your time derusting all your stash. "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:58:00 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Nov 25, 9:46*am, Gunner Asch wrote: Bear in mind..that I live in California. * Gunner But you are thinking of fixing that. Dan Indeed Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
"Hawke" wrote in message ... A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Gunner Let's see. Although he claims to be able to work like a young man he's going on 60, and he's had a heart attack and a stroke. His job skills are not translating into making money like they used to. So he's getting old, his ability to make a good living is declining, and the economy is in a bad way. It's obvious that he's someone who can no longer compete and win in a capitalistic economic system. There are winners and losers in that kind of system and while at one time he was able to win, meaning make a good living, it is looking more and more like he won't be able to find or do anything that will ever bring him in any kind of real money. So he's now relegated to a class of people he always had contempt for, those who are poor and can't make a go of it in a free market system. It's time to face the facts. He's going to be poor because he can no longer compete in the free market. You can't help but wonder if this circumstance will finally show him the weakness of a system where only the strongest, smartest, and luckiest, can have good lives, and everybody else has to get by on the crumbs. He probably never thought he would end up old, poor, and helpless, but that's about where he is. The sad fact is that is where most Americans wind up. That is what makes it so astonishing that they all seem to think the capitalist system is so great. Most people end up losers and yet they still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In a system where most of the players end up losers one has to wonder why. Are they just stupid or are they brainwashed? Hawke Actually, most do quite well by historical standards. Obviously the choices people make along the way impact how well they're doing at the end stage. |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:04:05 -0500, "ATP*"
wrote: "Hawke" wrote in message ... A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Gunner Let's see. Although he claims to be able to work like a young man he's going on 60, and he's had a heart attack and a stroke. His job skills are not translating into making money like they used to. So he's getting old, his ability to make a good living is declining, and the economy is in a bad way. It's obvious that he's someone who can no longer compete and win in a capitalistic economic system. There are winners and losers in that kind of system and while at one time he was able to win, meaning make a good living, it is looking more and more like he won't be able to find or do anything that will ever bring him in any kind of real money. So he's now relegated to a class of people he always had contempt for, those who are poor and can't make a go of it in a free market system. It's time to face the facts. He's going to be poor because he can no longer compete in the free market. You can't help but wonder if this circumstance will finally show him the weakness of a system where only the strongest, smartest, and luckiest, can have good lives, and everybody else has to get by on the crumbs. He probably never thought he would end up old, poor, and helpless, but that's about where he is. The sad fact is that is where most Americans wind up. That is what makes it so astonishing that they all seem to think the capitalist system is so great. Most people end up losers and yet they still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In a system where most of the players end up losers one has to wonder why. Are they just stupid or are they brainwashed? Hawke Actually, most do quite well by historical standards. Obviously the choices people make along the way impact how well they're doing at the end stage. What..the Parakeet hasnt yet started waving around a copy of the Manifesto and screaming Revolutions...Revolution!!!! Chuckle...the work force will be readjusted in less than three years. And he will be dead. Shrug.. Couldnt happen to a better guy. Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
On 2009-11-25, Hawke wrote:
Let's see. Although he claims to be able to work like a young man he's going on 60, and he's had a heart attack and a stroke. His job skills are not translating into making money like they used to. So he's getting old, his ability to make a good living is declining, and the economy is in a bad way. It's obvious that he's someone who can no longer compete and win in a capitalistic economic system. There are winners and losers in that kind of system and while at one time he was able to win, meaning make a good living, it is looking more and more like he won't be able to find or do anything that will ever bring him in any kind of real money. So he's now relegated to a class of people he always had contempt for, those who are poor and can't make a go of it in a free market system. It's time to face the facts. He's going to be poor because he can no longer compete in the free market. Well, there is always lottery. Keep in mind that the average person will be living on an average income. I would not call that person a loser. In fact, rich people in many countries have fewer comforts and protections than an average person in this country. I think that you are committing a logical fallacy, by defining winners too narrowly. I think that a person of average means, qualifies, in my mind, as a "winner". For obvious reasons, there is no foolproof way for an average person that would enable one to live well above average. If there was, then everyone would be above average! There are, however, easy ways to lose and be below average. Not having any marketable skills is one way to lose. The other straightforward way to lose is to not save money for a rainy day, or to borrow too much money. For several years since late 1990's, we lived under illusion that we are collectively richer than we actually were. The various collapses of recent years amount simply to destruction of this imaginary wealth. You can't help but wonder if this circumstance will finally show him the weakness of a system where only the strongest, smartest, and luckiest, can have good lives, and everybody else has to get by on the crumbs. He probably never thought he would end up old, poor, and helpless, but that's about where he is. The sad fact is that is where most Americans wind up. That is what makes it so astonishing that they all seem to think the capitalist system is so great. Most people end up losers and yet they still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In a system where most of the players end up losers one has to wonder why. Are they just stupid or are they brainwashed? My main beef with the system is uncertainty whether I will be able to maintain health coverage. It bugs me a great deal and I greatly hope for some sort of universal coverage. Everything else is not as unreasonable and usually leads to decent allocation of resources. i |
Should I move to Idaho?
Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:04:05 -0500, "ATP*" wrote: "Hawke" wrote in message ... A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Gunner Let's see. Although he claims to be able to work like a young man he's going on 60, and he's had a heart attack and a stroke. His job skills are not translating into making money like they used to. So he's getting old, his ability to make a good living is declining, and the economy is in a bad way. It's obvious that he's someone who can no longer compete and win in a capitalistic economic system. There are winners and losers in that kind of system and while at one time he was able to win, meaning make a good living, it is looking more and more like he won't be able to find or do anything that will ever bring him in any kind of real money. So he's now relegated to a class of people he always had contempt for, those who are poor and can't make a go of it in a free market system. It's time to face the facts. He's going to be poor because he can no longer compete in the free market. You can't help but wonder if this circumstance will finally show him the weakness of a system where only the strongest, smartest, and luckiest, can have good lives, and everybody else has to get by on the crumbs. He probably never thought he would end up old, poor, and helpless, but that's about where he is. The sad fact is that is where most Americans wind up. That is what makes it so astonishing that they all seem to think the capitalist system is so great. Most people end up losers and yet they still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In a system where most of the players end up losers one has to wonder why. Are they just stupid or are they brainwashed? Hawke Actually, most do quite well by historical standards. Obviously the choices people make along the way impact how well they're doing at the end stage. What..the Parakeet hasnt yet started waving around a copy of the Manifesto and screaming Revolutions...Revolution!!!! With capitalism, a few do really well, a few do really poorly and the vast majority do pretty well. With socialism, a few do really well and all the rest do so-so. With communism, a very few do really well and all the rest do really poorly. I'll place my bets on my personally doing much better in a capitalist system. |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:09:44 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:46:23 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:02:40 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. I'd second that! Add to that a FFL and deal arms on the net. That's how I've purchased a few and I'm happy with the transactions. Bear in mind..that I live in California. The state that has its own permanant Assault weapons ban..and the state that most ads on the gun auction websites specifically state they wont ship to. Shrug That might be why fine custom firearms come from places other than California. Other difficult venues for such activity might be New York City, New Jersey, Washington DC and Chicago. So what? To be a gunsmith in California..is to live constantly under a microscope held by antigunners. Ive known about 25 smiths since I moved here 30 yrs ago. The ones that havent died..have moved to other states to run their businesses. Hostile Work Environment is not my idea of fun. Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
Gunner Asch wrote:
(snip) To be a gunsmith in California..is to live constantly under a microscope held by antigunners. Ive known about 25 smiths since I moved here 30 yrs ago. The ones that havent died..have moved to other states to run their businesses. Hostile Work Environment is not my idea of fun. Gunner Note that Idaho is one of the states where you can legally own fully automatic weapons. It is also a low humidity area (at least Southern Idaho), with about 10" annual precip. It might get above 105F a few days in August, but most of the summer isn't likely to top the mid 90s. Of course I moved from Idaho to Pennsylvania about 9 years ago to be an apprentice blacksmith (which never worked out, but I'm still happy here), so I'm not up on the current state of the economy there. |
Should I move to Idaho?
Gunner,
Looking at the pics you sent recently and reading the posts that have been sent the Permian Basin of West Texas would not be a bad place to look for a place to hang your hat. If you are good at what you do people and businesses will find you. The humidity is low, temperatures can be high, the wind can be miserable, maybe 9 inches of rain a year average. Machine shops everywhere. Work is everywhere if you want to work cheap to get your foot in the door. Fort Worth is a good place to be, conservative folks, a large town with a small town attitude. Dallas or Houston is the big city attitude in this state. The West side and North side of Fort Worth has it all except oil production. Barnett Shale gas play will last decades more. I live about 100 miles west and the economy is depressed and has been for some time. Times are tough but this part of the state will make it. It is well diversified. Scott |
Should I move to Idaho?
Well, there is always lottery. Keep in mind that the average person will be living on an average income. I would not call that person a loser. In fact, rich people in many countries have fewer comforts and protections than an average person in this country. I think that you are committing a logical fallacy, by defining winners too narrowly. I think that a person of average means, qualifies, in my mind, as a "winner". You have to understand that everyone can have their own idea of what things mean, but then there are accepted standards of what something means, which are often different. To most people a winner is not someone who places "average". A winner is someone who does far better than average and a loser is someone who does far less than average. Statistically, most Americans fall into either average or below average. By those standards most do not do well. For obvious reasons, there is no foolproof way for an average person that would enable one to live well above average. If there was, then everyone would be above average! There are, however, easy ways to lose and be below average. Not having any marketable skills is one way to lose. The other straightforward way to lose is to not save money for a rainy day, or to borrow too much money. I agree that what one does has a great effect on how he does. Working hard, getting an education, saving and investing for the long run all can work to put you in the winner category. Can is the key word. For several years since late 1990's, we lived under illusion that we are collectively richer than we actually were. The various collapses of recent years amount simply to destruction of this imaginary wealth. They didn't have wealth. They had access to credit. Between credit cards, home equity loans, home refinancing, and the like people got the ability to spend unearned money. So they did. It made the economy grow but it was not based on real wealth. When the value of homes declined so has everything else. My main beef with the system is uncertainty whether I will be able to maintain health coverage. It bugs me a great deal and I greatly hope for some sort of universal coverage. Millions of us all agree with you there. Right now we're at the mercy of for profit businesses who could not care less about our health or our life. They're out to make as much money off us as they can and that's all they care about. It's no wonder why this system is a failure. Leaving us dependent on business who don't give a crap about us to keep us healthy is a stupid idea. Everything else is not as unreasonable and usually leads to decent allocation of resources. i Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. It's on par with third world dictatorships. It's a fact that for Americans, even after working a whole lifetime, only 2% can retire at anywhere near the level they did when working. That is an awfully small fraction of people who have enough in savings, dividends, and investments to provide for themselves in good style. Everyone else can't live without Social Security, Medicare, and other government help. The whole point is capitalism is advertised as a system that gives people a level of prosperity greater than anything else. If only 2% can retire with an estate worth anything then I wouldn't call Americans prosperous. Dual income families making 12 bucks an hour each and without health care isn't prosperity in my book. That's about what average people are making in this country. All I am doing is pointing out the facts. Americans have not done all that well and the future looks like the next generations are going to do worse than their parents. So maybe capitalism just had a few good decades and in the long run is turning out to be no better than most of the other economic systems mentioned. But it seems that even mentioning that capitalism hasn't panned out for most Americans is a sacrilege, even to the losers. Hawke |
Should I move to Idaho?
|
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:56:58 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:36:07 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:15:35 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:03:19 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote: California is dying as an industrial power. It at one time was the 7th largest economy in the world. No longer. Its the #3 hardest hit state in the looming Great Depression Part Deux, only behind Michigan with its Rust Belt. And Im not getting any work in my current trade, machine tool repair. So Ive been looking around a bit at other states for employment..and Id like to ask you folks for your input. Some prelims... Im 56yrs old, had some medical issues, now largely resolved. Im tecnically oriented and can troubleshoot electrionics at assembly level, machine, lathe and mill, can fix complex mechanical assemblies, can weld, do woodworking, gunsmithing, can do commecial and industrial electricial. Ive worked as a lumberjack, oil field roughneck etc etc etc. Frankly...there isnt much that I cant do. I detest retail work, paper work, suit and tie work. Im honest, motivated, self starter, experinced in job requirements and meeting them. I deal well with others and can supervise others well. However..Ive spent my life working as an individual technician and dont fit well in a herd. Shrug. Im good at what I do..far too many out there simply sucking on the paycheck. Give me a task, tell me where the parts are..and go away. Ill finish the job and ask for another. So anyways..Ive been considering moving out of California..after being here for 30+ yrs. Idaho is simply one of the states Im considering but the one Im focused on at the moment. If anyone has suggestions for other states..feel free to toss em in..Id be happy to look at them. I figure Im good for another 15-20 yrs working. Shrug So anyone have any good or bad things to say about Idaho? Its economy, chances for growth and employment and so forth. Im interested in perhaps moving out of California...heading anyplace that I can prosper enough to keep myself and my family alive and eating regularly. Anyone? Im not moving tommorow, next week or next month. Next year...shrug...gotta have someplace to go, before figuring out how to get there. Gunner I don't know jack about Idaho, but perhaps your focus should be on what rather than where. You can do commercial and industrial electrical, but only as a scab and that can be hard work even when scab work is available. It obviously isn't. If you can repair complex mechanical assemblies, you've opted not to fix your own truck so that obviously doesn't appeal to you. You may be able to troubleshoot electronics, but I rather doubt that you can do it better than zit-faced eager hungry young techs with recent training, young families, strong motivation and willingness to tolerate whatever crap they must for a paycheck. You ain't gonna be a lumberjack or oilfield roughneck at age 60 and beyond. Your most consistent interest and passion has to do with guns. If you're really serious about a new course, I'd say build on that. You know guns and their use, you can respect people who respect guns, and you have at least rudimentary skills in machining and smithing. The people most likely to be tolerant of your idiosyncrasies are those who appreciate and covet fine firearms and will pay handsomely to have them made for them. There are people with money to spend even in recessions. Hell, you know how nuts sales of AR-15's has been since the election, even in a down economy. A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. By "scab" I meant unlicensed rather than non-union. In MN, electrical work for others must be done by a licensed electrician. Perhaps it's different in CA. That's not to say that plenty of illegal work isn't done, just as many domestic and agri jobs are done by illegals. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. What I said: you opted not to fix the truck. I don't wrench on vehicles anymore either. But ability to do something is of no value if you won't do it. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. If you don't really intend to leave CA then my entire note is irrelevant -- as is this entire thread. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. There are smiths with 6-month backlogs of work in some parts of the country. These are guys with reputations for good work and fair prices. Not low prices, fair prices for value received. One such is a guy in his late '70's in Elbow Lake, MN. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Suggesting that your claim of being honest may or may not be true? VBG No. Im always honest. I just may not be as "vocifferous" when dealing with Leftards in real life. G Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:34:23 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:04:05 -0500, "ATP*" wrote: "Hawke" wrote in message ... A few men with modest lathes, some tooling and considerable skills who can craft rifles that win BR matches and/or craft pistols that are exquisite in design and function have far more work than they can do even in the present economy and perhaps especially at present. They can live where ever they want and most do live in rural to remote locales. Age doesn't matter, nor does physical frailty that inevitably accompanies advancing age. You say you're good for another 15 to 20 and maybe you are, but I'll note that being 68 is definitely different from being 56. YMMV. Good post indeed. Though I should mention that only on paper am Im 56..I still run the tails of most kids. But yes..in only a few years...Im going to start slowing down. it should be noted that the majority of electricians in california are NOT union. Union electricians are actually a very small minority. Just a heads up. As for not fixing my truck...its not because I cant..its because I hate working on vehicles. Shrug. I work on complex mechanical stuff all day long fixing machine tools and CNC machine tools. A great deal of which is far far more complex than an engine. And one seldom smashes ones fingers, has to lay down on ones back under a machine and so forth. California however..really isnt a good place for gunsmiths. We cant even buy AR-15s here..shrug. There used to be quite a number of them...one per town..and now they are all dead and gone..and no one is interested enough in replacing them. I do my own gunsmithing. Have for years. Built a number of arms from scratch, upgraded/converted many more. I suppose I could look into doing it for others..but in my area..there are about 5 smiths..and thats about all that they really need. And while I do my own stock work..few people ..at least here...can afford to have stock work done other than doing it themselves. Now I do have a couple CNC lathes..and have been pondering what sort of gun related Stuff I could make and sell...ebay has a number of machine shops selling gun Stuff ...some reasonable..some very expensive. Im seeing less and less of them however. That $75 hr machine time tends to eat up profits for a shop, even if its side work. I can, of course..do it a hell of a lot cheaper..working out of ones home is far cheaper. Got any good suggestions as to products I could make and sell that way? As for ideosyncrisies... my Newsgroup persona may or may not match my Real World persona....VBG Gunner Let's see. Although he claims to be able to work like a young man he's going on 60, and he's had a heart attack and a stroke. His job skills are not translating into making money like they used to. So he's getting old, his ability to make a good living is declining, and the economy is in a bad way. It's obvious that he's someone who can no longer compete and win in a capitalistic economic system. There are winners and losers in that kind of system and while at one time he was able to win, meaning make a good living, it is looking more and more like he won't be able to find or do anything that will ever bring him in any kind of real money. So he's now relegated to a class of people he always had contempt for, those who are poor and can't make a go of it in a free market system. It's time to face the facts. He's going to be poor because he can no longer compete in the free market. You can't help but wonder if this circumstance will finally show him the weakness of a system where only the strongest, smartest, and luckiest, can have good lives, and everybody else has to get by on the crumbs. He probably never thought he would end up old, poor, and helpless, but that's about where he is. The sad fact is that is where most Americans wind up. That is what makes it so astonishing that they all seem to think the capitalist system is so great. Most people end up losers and yet they still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In a system where most of the players end up losers one has to wonder why. Are they just stupid or are they brainwashed? Hawke Actually, most do quite well by historical standards. Obviously the choices people make along the way impact how well they're doing at the end stage. What..the Parakeet hasnt yet started waving around a copy of the Manifesto and screaming Revolutions...Revolution!!!! With capitalism, a few do really well, a few do really poorly and the vast majority do pretty well. With socialism, a few do really well and all the rest do so-so. With communism, a very few do really well and all the rest do really poorly. I'll place my bets on my personally doing much better in a capitalist system. Very well stated! Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:39:03 +0000 (UTC), Todd Rich
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: (snip) To be a gunsmith in California..is to live constantly under a microscope held by antigunners. Ive known about 25 smiths since I moved here 30 yrs ago. The ones that havent died..have moved to other states to run their businesses. Hostile Work Environment is not my idea of fun. Gunner Note that Idaho is one of the states where you can legally own fully automatic weapons. It is also a low humidity area (at least Southern Idaho), with about 10" annual precip. It might get above 105F a few days in August, but most of the summer isn't likely to top the mid 90s. Of course I moved from Idaho to Pennsylvania about 9 years ago to be an apprentice blacksmith (which never worked out, but I'm still happy here), so I'm not up on the current state of the economy there. Thanks for the heads up. Thats the sort of info Im looking for. Gunner, Central California..average rainfall is 4" per year "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:13:02 -0800 (PST), jano wrote:
Gunner, Looking at the pics you sent recently and reading the posts that have been sent the Permian Basin of West Texas would not be a bad place to look for a place to hang your hat. If you are good at what you do people and businesses will find you. The humidity is low, temperatures can be high, the wind can be miserable, maybe 9 inches of rain a year average. Machine shops everywhere. Work is everywhere if you want to work cheap to get your foot in the door. Fort Worth is a good place to be, conservative folks, a large town with a small town attitude. Dallas or Houston is the big city attitude in this state. The West side and North side of Fort Worth has it all except oil production. Barnett Shale gas play will last decades more. I live about 100 miles west and the economy is depressed and has been for some time. Times are tough but this part of the state will make it. It is well diversified. Scott Many thanks! Good info! Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Nov 26, 6:32*am, Hawke wrote:
You have to understand that everyone can have their own idea of what things mean, but then there are accepted standards of what something means, which are often different. To most people a winner is not someone who places "average". A winner is someone who does far better than average and a loser is someone who does far less than average. Statistically, most Americans fall into either average or below average. By those standards most do not do well. Millions of us all agree with you there. Right now we're at the mercy of for profit businesses who could not care less about our health or our life. They're out to make as much money off us as they can and that's all they care about. It's no wonder why this system is a failure. Leaving us dependent on business who don't give a crap about us to keep us healthy is a stupid idea. Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. It's on par with third world dictatorships. It's a fact that for Americans, even after working a whole lifetime, only 2% can retire at anywhere near the level they did when working. That is an awfully small fraction of people who have enough in savings, dividends, and investments to provide for themselves in good style. Everyone else can't live without Social Security, Medicare, and other government help. The whole point is capitalism is advertised as a system that gives people a level of prosperity greater than anything else. If only 2% can retire with an estate worth anything then I wouldn't call Americans prosperous. Dual income families making 12 bucks an hour each and without health care isn't prosperity in my book. That's about what average people are making in this country. All I am doing is pointing out the facts. Americans have not done all that well and the future looks like the next generations are going to do worse than their parents. So maybe capitalism just had a few good decades and in the long run is turning out to be no better than most of the other economic systems mentioned. But it seems that even mentioning that capitalism hasn't panned out for most Americans is a sacrilege, even to the losers. Hawke If you try to figure out if Americans are winners, and only look at the US, why of course the average American just does average. That is by definition. But if you look at the whole world, then the average American is a winner. A dual income family making $12 each beats the hell out of the average family in the world. And while only 2% of the retired Americans can retire at the same level of income as when they were working, that income level probably beats the average of the rest of the world. And part of the reason is that the average American has a below average savings rate. If you do not save and invest money, how can you expect to have any income when you are not working? Do you save 10 to 15 % of your pretax income? If you do, you should have no problem retiring with a decent income. If you don't, well you have the freedom to choose. Dan |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:10:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:18:18 -0700, wrote: I merely observe that he has skills that are quite marketable and in demand right now and are sustainable well past usual retirement age. Getting an FFL would be obligatory. Finding work and establishing a reputation and growing clientele outside of and well beyond CA would be the challenge. I doubt that he has sufficient skills to make a living at firearms. He seems to struggle at telling the difference between net and gross. And I know he doesn't have the will to succeed at anything that requires diligence. I'll defer to you and others to judge and condemn. You've *already* judged... wrongly, but aren't willing to admit it. No, Wayne, I haven't. I would take as much or more joy in seeing Gunner become a net contributor as you seem to in disparaging and condemning. Whether or not that happens is entirely up to Gunner. I've no doubt that he could do it if so motivated. "If motivated". That's the key. If it hasn't happened yet, then it isn't going to. I think he'll live his life as he will without regard to your opinions or mine or anyone else's. I disagree. I think it's possible that he might have made some changes a long time ago if not for enablers like you. A single post from Ernie at SEJW caused him to stop his political BS there. Take away his approving audience and he might have used all the time he wasted on Usenet for something productive. I've said it befo I think a lot of you guys prefer his brand of entertainment to his success, and some of you enjoy reading about his train-wreck lifestyle but won't ever admit it. If I were in his place that's what I'd do. But you're not in his place. If you were then you wouldn't be wasting your life on Usenet as he does. That's what you're doing in your off-grid remote hide from social contact beyond usenet. Oh please. I live 35 minutes driving from Walmart etc, and 12 miles from a residential golf course subdivision. My social contacts beyond Usenet take up more time than I'd like, but that's no different from most people. Your need to pretend that I'm some kind of hermit is much the same as gummer pretending that's he's a P.E. in everything but cert. It's laughable. I don't condone irresponsibility, far from it. Baloney. Yesterday you wrote: "I don't even give a damn whether or not Gunner pays his taxes". I suppose you'll say that not caring is different from condoning. Well, it isn't to gummy, and that's why you wrote it. But I can certainly understand contempt for a government, society and populace that sends young men off to battle and then spits on those that manage to return alive however damaged. I don't necessarily agree with that attitude but I certainly do understand it. So what? None of that has anything to do with gummer's problems. He's his own worst enemy but he prefers to blame his issues on anyone and everyone he can think of. His state is going broke, but he won't accept that people like him are a huge part of the problem. Now he hilariously pretends that his failure is somehow the fault of the state, and that moving out could be a cure. Bloody hell. I accept that you can't understand that if you didn't experience it. I understand more than you'll know, but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. You only put up these silly straw men because you can't think of any better way to defend poor old gummy. You ridiculed SteveB for being armed when he goes to Vegas since you go there slick with no mishaps thus far. If you had a few pucker scars your attitude might be rather different. Or maybe not, I don't know. I ridiculed SteveB because his attitude is ridiculous. LV and surrounding area has some 2 million people, the vast majority of which don't feel the need for guns or police scanners in order to move about. Face it, Steve is an overt racist, and his paranoia stems from his hatred of minorities. He's just another irrationally fearful old fart, something for which you seem to have a lot of empathy. Your world view from your anonymously remote off-grid hide, posting with a pseudonym, is clearly very narrow with near-zero tolerance. I have lots of tolerance, too much in fact according to some of my friends. But take a step back and look at what's going on here. Is there anyone worth criticizing in this world? Of course there is. My #1 is a person who's leeched more than anyone I've ever heard of, can afford soda and cigarettes but not peanuts in property taxes, and who advertises it all by wasting his life on Usenet. Your #1 is me. See any difference? Please accept that as a bit of perspective, not a criticism. LOL Who do you think you're fooling? You must be up to a couple dozen mentions of my "hide". Is that the best you can do? Perhaps your experience and education are limited, It's because of my experience with deadbeats and BS artists that I was able to recognize gummer for what he is. or perhaps you're capacity for humanity is on a par with the coyotes around your AZ hide. Coyotes have a tendency to keep a low profile. If gummy were to emulate that, we wouldn't be talking. If so, that's how it is and how you are, oh well and so be it. Then why are you here? I don't need to win an argument on usenet. I disdain cleverbicker. I merely offer the foregoing for your consideration, should you care to engage intellect rather than obsession or political dogma. You clearly have an operative intellect and active imagination. I'm happy to engage intellect. But you won't convince me you have one by spinning tales about me. That's the kind of technique gummy uses. It will work for you exactly as well as it works for him. Wayne |
Should I move to Idaho?
Hawke wrote: Well, there is always lottery. Keep in mind that the average person will be living on an average income. I would not call that person a loser. In fact, rich people in many countries have fewer comforts and protections than an average person in this country. I think that you are committing a logical fallacy, by defining winners too narrowly. I think that a person of average means, qualifies, in my mind, as a "winner". You have to understand that everyone can have their own idea of what things mean, but then there are accepted standards of what something means, which are often different. To most people a winner is not someone who places "average". A winner is someone who does far better than average and a loser is someone who does far less than average. Statistically, most Americans fall into either average or below average. By those standards most do not do well. The fault with your argument here is that you are looking at the issue with blinders on. Most Americans may well fit into the "average" quality of life for Americans, with that few percent of Americans well above, however those average Americans have a quality of life standard that is vastly higher than most of the population of the world, and notably higher than the quality of life of the bulk populations of most "western" socialist countries. For obvious reasons, there is no foolproof way for an average person that would enable one to live well above average. If there was, then everyone would be above average! There are, however, easy ways to lose and be below average. Not having any marketable skills is one way to lose. The other straightforward way to lose is to not save money for a rainy day, or to borrow too much money. I agree that what one does has a great effect on how he does. Working hard, getting an education, saving and investing for the long run all can work to put you in the winner category. Can is the key word. For several years since late 1990's, we lived under illusion that we are collectively richer than we actually were. The various collapses of recent years amount simply to destruction of this imaginary wealth. They didn't have wealth. They had access to credit. Between credit cards, home equity loans, home refinancing, and the like people got the ability to spend unearned money. So they did. It made the economy grow but it was not based on real wealth. When the value of homes declined so has everything else. My main beef with the system is uncertainty whether I will be able to maintain health coverage. It bugs me a great deal and I greatly hope for some sort of universal coverage. Millions of us all agree with you there. Right now we're at the mercy of for profit businesses who could not care less about our health or our life. They're out to make as much money off us as they can and that's all they care about. It's no wonder why this system is a failure. Leaving us dependent on business who don't give a crap about us to keep us healthy is a stupid idea. Everything else is not as unreasonable and usually leads to decent allocation of resources. i Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. It's on par with third world dictatorships. It's a fact that for Americans, even after working a whole lifetime, only 2% can retire at anywhere near the level they did when working. That is an awfully small fraction of people who have enough in savings, dividends, and investments to provide for themselves in good style. Everyone else can't live without Social Security, Medicare, and other government help. The whole point is capitalism is advertised as a system that gives people a level of prosperity greater than anything else. If only 2% can retire with an estate worth anything then I wouldn't call Americans prosperous. Dual income families making 12 bucks an hour each and without health care isn't prosperity in my book. That's about what average people are making in this country. All I am doing is pointing out the facts. Americans have not done all that well and the future looks like the next generations are going to do worse than their parents. So maybe capitalism just had a few good decades and in the long run is turning out to be no better than most of the other economic systems mentioned. But it seems that even mentioning that capitalism hasn't panned out for most Americans is a sacrilege, even to the losers. Hawke With capitalism, a few do really well, a few do really poorly and the vast majority do pretty well. With socialism, a few do really well and all the rest do so-so. With communism, a very few do really well and all the rest do really poorly. I'll place my bets on my personally doing much better in a capitalist system. |
Should I move to Idaho?
On 2009-11-26, Hawke wrote:
Well, there is always lottery. Keep in mind that the average person will be living on an average income. I would not call that person a loser. In fact, rich people in many countries have fewer comforts and protections than an average person in this country. I think that you are committing a logical fallacy, by defining winners too narrowly. I think that a person of average means, qualifies, in my mind, as a "winner". You have to understand that everyone can have their own idea of what things mean, but then there are accepted standards of what something means, which are often different. To most people a winner is not someone who places "average". Well, if you define winners as above average, and losers as everyone who are not winners, then it should not be surprising that most people are losers, in this definition. This amounts of saying that only few people are above average. But you cannot use that triviality as a means to attack capitalism. A winner is someone who does far better than average and a loser is someone who does far less than average. Statistically, most Americans fall into either average or below average. By those standards most do not do well. No, this is meaningless word play. For obvious reasons, there is no foolproof way for an average person that would enable one to live well above average. If there was, then everyone would be above average! There are, however, easy ways to lose and be below average. Not having any marketable skills is one way to lose. The other straightforward way to lose is to not save money for a rainy day, or to borrow too much money. I agree that what one does has a great effect on how he does. Working hard, getting an education, saving and investing for the long run all can work to put you in the winner category. Can is the key word. Correct. For several years since late 1990's, we lived under illusion that we are collectively richer than we actually were. The various collapses of recent years amount simply to destruction of this imaginary wealth. They didn't have wealth. They had access to credit. Between credit cards, home equity loans, home refinancing, and the like people got the ability to spend unearned money. So they did. It made the economy grow but it was not based on real wealth. When the value of homes declined so has everything else. The point is is that proliferation of easy credit created an illusion of wealth, due to rising asset prices. Everything else is not as unreasonable and usually leads to decent allocation of resources. Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. Can you substantiate this? i |
Should I move to Idaho?
Ignoramus17202 wrote:
On 2009-11-26, Hawke wrote: Well, there is always lottery. Keep in mind that the average person will be living on an average income. I would not call that person a loser. In fact, rich people in many countries have fewer comforts and protections than an average person in this country. I think that you are committing a logical fallacy, by defining winners too narrowly. I think that a person of average means, qualifies, in my mind, as a "winner". You have to understand that everyone can have their own idea of what things mean, but then there are accepted standards of what something means, which are often different. To most people a winner is not someone who places "average". Well, if you define winners as above average, and losers as everyone who are not winners, then it should not be surprising that most people are losers, in this definition. This amounts of saying that only few people are above average. But you cannot use that triviality as a means to attack capitalism. A winner is someone who does far better than average and a loser is someone who does far less than average. Statistically, most Americans fall into either average or below average. By those standards most do not do well. No, this is meaningless word play. For obvious reasons, there is no foolproof way for an average person that would enable one to live well above average. If there was, then everyone would be above average! There are, however, easy ways to lose and be below average. Not having any marketable skills is one way to lose. The other straightforward way to lose is to not save money for a rainy day, or to borrow too much money. I agree that what one does has a great effect on how he does. Working hard, getting an education, saving and investing for the long run all can work to put you in the winner category. Can is the key word. Correct. For several years since late 1990's, we lived under illusion that we are collectively richer than we actually were. The various collapses of recent years amount simply to destruction of this imaginary wealth. They didn't have wealth. They had access to credit. Between credit cards, home equity loans, home refinancing, and the like people got the ability to spend unearned money. So they did. It made the economy grow but it was not based on real wealth. When the value of homes declined so has everything else. The point is is that proliferation of easy credit created an illusion of wealth, due to rising asset prices. Everything else is not as unreasonable and usually leads to decent allocation of resources. Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. Can you substantiate this? He's right Ig. What's missing, of course, is the four percent that isn't included in his statement. They are a big chunk to. -- John R. Carroll |
Should I move to Idaho?
On 2009-11-26, John R. Carroll wrote:
Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. Can you substantiate this? He's right Ig. What's missing, of course, is the four percent that isn't included in his statement. They are a big chunk to. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth ``It has been noted that the richest 1% of the American population owns as much as the combined wealth of the bottom 90%. '' The difference between his quoted 95% number and 90% may seem trivial, but it is not. Also, this inequality number also somewhat overstates the actual inequality between citizens. This is so because it mixes young people (who had no time to accumulate wealth) with older people (who had a chance to do so). A more proper comparison would be to compare people within similar age brackets. Also, an older person who has wealth, but is retired and earns no current income, is not as wealthy as would appear for a younger person who earns regular income. i |
Should I move to Idaho?
Here's a good, but dated, review of top 1% of households.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/publi.../07/9707jw.pdf Hawke's quote of 1% owning as much as the bottom 95%, probably comes from Michael Moore, whom I consider to be a left wing version of Rush Limbaugh. (a sensationalist windbag preaching to the gullible). i On 2009-11-26, Ignoramus17202 wrote: On 2009-11-26, John R. Carroll wrote: Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. Can you substantiate this? He's right Ig. What's missing, of course, is the four percent that isn't included in his statement. They are a big chunk to. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth ``It has been noted that the richest 1% of the American population owns as much as the combined wealth of the bottom 90%. '' The difference between his quoted 95% number and 90% may seem trivial, but it is not. Also, this inequality number also somewhat overstates the actual inequality between citizens. This is so because it mixes young people (who had no time to accumulate wealth) with older people (who had a chance to do so). A more proper comparison would be to compare people within similar age brackets. Also, an older person who has wealth, but is retired and earns no current income, is not as wealthy as would appear for a younger person who earns regular income. i |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:27:56 -0800, jk wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote: Gunner, Central California..average rainfall is 4" per year CENTRAL California?????????? I don't think so! Perhaps from a E-W view, but you are well, WELL into southern California. Now if you lived in Sacramento, that's "Central" california. jk Actually...No Im not. By California Standards...Southern Cal starts on the south side of the Grapevine. I am however on the southern end of the Central Valley..which is considered Central California and runs almost to Redding. North to South..Califonriia is nearly 3/4 of the US tall. Its 770 miles "tall" The Central valley is aprox 440 miles tall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central...8California%29 Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton |
Should I move to Idaho?
Ignoramus17202 wrote:
On 2009-11-26, John R. Carroll wrote: Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. Can you substantiate this? He's right Ig. What's missing, of course, is the four percent that isn't included in his statement. They are a big chunk to. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth ``It has been noted that the richest 1% of the American population owns as much as the combined wealth of the bottom 90%. '' The difference between his quoted 95% number and 90% may seem trivial, but it is not. I think it depends on how you count but I wouldn't quibble it. That isn't the point behind the statement and it's equally made whether the number is 90% or 95%. Also, this inequality number also somewhat overstates the actual inequality between citizens. This is so because it mixes young people (who had no time to accumulate wealth) with older people (who had a chance to do so). Intentionally even. A more proper comparison would be to compare people within similar age brackets. Or GINI Also, an older person who has wealth, but is retired and earns no current income, is not as wealthy as would appear for a younger person who earns regular income. Like I said, it depends on how you count. These sorts of statements are meant to dramatize something that is very real. Wealth has been aggregating upward in the US for more than three decades. The disparity is appalling if you compare the 1959 and 2009. The societal consequence is decreased upward mobility, among others. This is all pretty well documented. It isn't unfair at all to believe that children born today are being left not with the promise of a brighter future than their parents enjoyed. The reverse is at least equally possible, that today's kids will enjoy a lower standard of living. We wont know for as long as it takes to see what the modern equivalent of the auto industry and America's military industrial complex is supplanted by. We are in deep poopie if the answer is "nothing" because if that is the answer the result will be something of a failed first world nation. That would make a total of four in modern history. -- John R. Carroll |
Should I move to Idaho?
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:10:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: snip I would take as much or more joy in seeing Gunner become a net contributor as you seem to in disparaging and condemning. snip It is not the fault of the Gunners of the world that the pols decided to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs, and now everyone including the pols are paying the price. Be reminded that it is not necessary to pay taxes to be a net contributor to society, in spite of the massive amounts of propaganda that this is the case. It all depends on what the taxes are used for. In too many jurisdictions most of the taxes simply line the pockets of the pols and their pals, and the rest is used to buy votes. In these cases, not paying taxes makes a bigger aggregate contribution than paying taxes. |
Should I move to Idaho?
The point is is that proliferation of easy credit created an illusion of wealth, due to rising asset prices. Everything else is not as unreasonable and usually leads to decent allocation of resources. Not according to statistics. As of now 1% of the public owns as much as the other 95% do. Can you substantiate this? He's right Ig. What's missing, of course, is the four percent that isn't included in his statement. They are a big chunk to. Thanks for confirming what I was saying about the extreme maldistribution of wealth in the country. Even people like Iggy don't know this, and is why they find it had to believe. People just have no idea what has happened since Ronald Reagan got elected. The amount of wealth that has shifted from the middle class to the fortunate few, whether it be 5% or 1%, is staggering. The point is the country is doing something radically wrong. So not only are the next generations going to be worse off than their parents, but the majority of the country's wealth is going into fewer and fewer hands. The whole idea of America was a place where the middle class was dominant, most people did pretty well, and the very rich and very poor were extremely small in numbers. It's not like that any more and it's not by accident. Capitalism is a system with a few winners and many losers. When it is not held in check by government it does the same thing every time. It runs to monopoly. Right now the rich have won the game of monopoly. They have put the rest of us out of business and they own all the hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place. Americans are angry and they don't know who to blame. What has happened is in some ways complicated and in some ways very simple. Throughout history in most places a lucky few have always owned everything and the multitudes were penniless. We liked to think we were different. Like it or not we have been going in that direction for three decades. At some point we have to say okay, that's enough, we're making some changes. I think we're very close to a tipping point. If we don't do something about the inequality of wealth we're through as a country. We just can't have people making a billion dollars a year when most people make 30K or less. Average income is around 50K and that is for two full time workers. That isn't sustainable. Like they say in cards, read 'em and weep. That is where we are as a country. Better we do something now because if we don't we just may have some kind of revolution after all, and that will be real ugly. Hawke |
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