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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
Well was working with the Logan a little today, wanted to make a
bushing for a grinder wheel. This 4 jaw came with the lathe, and was looking at the jaws, and they looked like brand new. I thought "wow you got a pretty nice chuck with this lathe" I dialed the stock in real nice, within 2-3 mils,was running real nice, think it was some cold rolled stock. anyways, took the OD down a little too far, so I moved the piece out about an inch to start over, was dialing it in, had it pretty close, was trying to move it a little, guess I did crank down on it pretty good, but I thought you should be able to. Well I heard something snap, and the jaw would not tighten down any more,just spinning. There is no name on the chuck that I can see, I have enclosed some links to pictures. First 2 show the front and back of the chuck, second two show the broken jaw next to a good one, and the other shows what I thought to be the jaws looking almost new. The piece dialed in read nice and straight, and looked like the jaws contacted the stock nicely. Sort of seems like a weird jaw, the screw in the chuck does not mesh with teeth on the jaw, but the screw sort of rides between two notches in the back of the jaw. Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg |
#3
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
" wrote:
Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg Tony, if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links. Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
#4
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 10, 7:52*pm, Wes wrote:
" wrote: Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony Tony, *if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links. Wes Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg |
#5
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
Contact Scott Logan, he can usually obtain most any part for a Logan
lathe. | Scott Logan - ssl "at" lathe.com | | Logan Actuator Co. http://www.lathe.com | | Harvard, IL | |++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++| | Parts and Accessories for Logan Lathes and | | Montgomery Wards Lathes | | Logan-Lilly Mine Hoist Safety Controllers Engineman On Oct 10, 9:58�pm, " wrote: On Oct 10, 7:52�pm, Wes wrote: " wrote: Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony Tony, �if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links. Wes Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...load%20and%20f... |
#6
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
" wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:52*pm, Wes wrote: " wrote: Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony Tony, *if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links. Wes Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg Is there a threaded piece that rides between the ears? One thought would be to silver braze the ear back on. Wes |
#7
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
skrev i en meddelelse ... On Oct 10, 7:52 pm, Wes wrote: " wrote: Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony Tony, if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links. Wes Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg Don't know if it will be of any help at all. But the story is that I have a similar chuck (looks almost identical :-) Mine is for a South Bend 9" On the back of mine there are something written in the casting. There are 4 "hollows": 1: 646-1 2: ?arrow, pointing towards the outside edge of the chuck 3: 5678 4: empty I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this company: http://www.packardmachinery.com/ If they are able to help or not I hvae no idea. -- Uffe Bærentsen Denmark |
#8
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 11, 7:43*am, "Uffe Bærentsen"
wrote: Wes I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this company:http://www.packardmachinery.com/ If they are able to help or not I hvae no idea. -- Uffe Bærentsen Denmark Thanks, to all................................. Uffe, I will look for that company. Wes, Yes that is exzactly the way it works. http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...orget/Jaw1.jpg Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my chuck. Made In U.S.A Buck Tool Co. Kalamazoo 444 http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...ChuckID004.jpg Thanks, Tony |
#9
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
wrote:
On Oct 11, 7:43 am, "Uffe Bærentsen" wrote: Wes I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this company:http://www.packardmachinery.com/ If they are able to help or not I hvae no idea. -- Uffe Bærentsen Denmark Thanks, to all................................. Uffe, I will look for that company. Wes, Yes that is exzactly the way it works. http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...orget/Jaw1.jpg Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my chuck. Made In U.S.A Buck Tool Co. Kalamazoo 444 http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...ChuckID004.jpg Thanks, Tony So it would appear that the chuck I have , which is labelled as a Logan , is actually made by Buck . Interesting ... -- Snag "90 FLHTCU "Strider" '39 WLDD "PopCycle" BS 132/SENS/DOF |
#10
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 11, 10:03*am, "Snag" wrote:
wrote: On Oct 11, 7:43 am, "Uffe Bærentsen" wrote: Wes I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this company:http://www.packardmachinery.com/If they are able to help or not I have no idea. -- Uffe Bærentsen Denmark Thanks, to all................................. Uffe, *I will look for that company. Wes, Yes that is exactly the way it works. http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...load%20and%20f... Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my chuck. * * * * Made In U.S.A * * * * Buck Tool Co. * * * * Kalamazoo * * * * * * * 444 http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...load%20and%20f... Thanks, Tony So it would appear that the chuck I have , which is labeled as a Logan , is actually made by Buck . Interesting ... -- Snag "90 FLHTCU "Strider" '39 WLDD "PopCycle" BS 132/SENS/DOF- Hide quoted text - Yeah, Think it was on the Logan FAQ where I read that...........................Yes here it is............................. 2.11. Where can I get new jaws or different jaws to fit my old Logan chuck? 2.11.. Before you buy used chuck jaws sight-unseen, you need to know that there are hundreds, if not thousands of different jaw sizes. It is nearly impossible to find replacement jaws for a particular chuck unless you go right to the chuck manufacturer. Logan chucks were made by Buck, now Buck Forkardt. Buck Forkardt is not set up to support home shop machinists. Their prices for replacement parts are astronomical. It would be less expensive to buy a new imported chuck than to buy new jaws. Logan Actuator Co. sells new chucks, made by Bison. These are high quality chucks, made in Europe and are great investments for your Lathe. Don't look good as far as finding a replacement jaw(s). Seems a shame, as this chuck looks to be in good shape otherwise. would like to get one of the Bison's, but like I said, I'm not really looking to spend that kind of money for a chuck. At this point I did turn the jaws around as mentioned at the yahoo group. As JT stated at the Logan group, might be best to "bury" the stock into the chuck to the jaws are fully supported. If you look at your chuck, you'll see what he meant. **Quoted from "JT", Logan Yahoo group** "That particular style you can ONLY tighten hard if the stock goes down over the full jaw length at least. That way the "tab" is being forced into the work as well as the rest of the jaw, and the stresses on the "tab" are less. If you have to "nip" the stock, it is subject to breaking that "tab" off." Thanks, Tony |
#11
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:52 pm, Wes wrote: " wrote: Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony Tony, if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links. Wes Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg The same thing happened on a mates 4 jaw and as it's inpedendant he machined a new jaw from O-1 plate. Been working fine for the last 15 years IIRC. |
#12
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 11, 10:56*am, David Billington
wrote: The same thing happened on a mates 4 jaw and as it's inpedendant he machined a new jaw from O-1 plate. Been working fine for the last 15 years IIRC.- Hide quoted text - Yes that would be an option, but I do not have a mill. Thanks, Tony |
#13
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
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#14
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
Well , dang it , now y'all got me ponderin' . How about a set of "master jaws" , that a soft jaw can be bolted to ? As I mentioned over in the Logan group , it'd take a better machinist than me , but ... -- Snag "90 FLHTCU "Strider" '39 WLDD "PopCycle" BS 132/SENS/DOF As I mentioned over in the Logan group , it'd take a better machinist than me , but ... Dont think it was approved yet. Might see what the welder at work has to say.............. Thanks Tony |
#15
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:11:12 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote: snip Might see what the welder at work has to say.............. Thanks Tony Might want to consider/thinking about drilling & pinning too. You have a lot of material to work with on the main side. This should help with the braze/weld repair. You might get away with one or two recessed cap screws also. Two grade 8 cap screws set side by side would be pretty strong, especially with maybe 3/4 inch or so of threads caught in the main jaw area. -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email |
#16
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:11:12 -0700 " wrote:
Might see what the welder at work has to say.............. Thanks Tony On Oct 11, 4:30 pm, Leon Fisk wrote: Might want to consider/thinking about drilling & pinning too. You have a lot of material to work with on the main side. This should help with the braze/weld repair. You might get away with one or two recessed cap screws also. Two grade 8 cap screws set side by side would be pretty strong, especially with maybe 3/4 inch or so of threads caught in the main jaw area. -- For drilling & pinning, would I use some drill rod and make the hole slightly smaller then press it together, then V it out and weld? Regarding one or two recessed cap screws , are you talking in place of the broken piece? This guy at work is a pretty good welder, but he does more like fabrication and welding on snow plows and tractors,and the like, don't know how he is on little precise stuff. Thanks, Tony |
#17
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Oct 11, 11:32 am, "Snag" wrote: wrote: On Oct 11, 10:56 am, David Billington wrote: The same thing happened on a mates 4 jaw and as it's inpedendant he machined a new jaw from O-1 plate. Been working fine for the last 15 years IIRC.- Hide quoted text - Yes that would be an option, but I do not have a mill. Thanks, Tony Well , dang it , now y'all got me ponderin' . How about a set of "master jaws" , that a soft jaw can be bolted to ? As I mentioned over in the Logan group , it'd take a better machinist than me , but ... -- Snag "90 FLHTCU "Strider" '39 WLDD "PopCycle" BS 132/SENS/DOF MSC sells them: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4465242&PMT4NO=72243659 That's one of the less expensive models. jsw Jim , I can screw up a lot of steel , and still manage to make a usable set for a LOT less than $571.36 . Come to think about it , those might not ba as hard as I thought . Real precision is needed at the slot , but the rest doesn't need all that tight a tolerance - after all , they're adjusted independently ... and I could make them with a bit more meat at the tabs . Scott Logan said over at the Lathe List that Buck was mighty proud of their replacement parts . Looks like he's right on the money . Once again . -- Snag Now where did I put that piece of 4140 ... |
#18
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On 2009-10-10, Snag wrote:
wrote: Well was working with the Logan a little today, wanted to make a bushing [ ... ] Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg Your images have all apparently been deleted ... Actually -- his ISP has decided to "protect" him by taking out part of the URLs -- note the "c...t", which should have something else (and likely longer) between the 'c' and the 't'. Until he can manage to post the entire URL around his ISP's "helpful" security, you won't see his images. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#19
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On 2009-10-11, wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:52*pm, Wes wrote: " wrote: Is this a common style, or poor design, and is there anywhere to still get a jaw like this. Is it possible this was an old Logan chuck? Thanks, Tony Tony, *if you look at above links, they are abbreviated, please repost links. Wes Thanks Guys, Lets see if these work any better Thanks, Tony http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw009.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw008.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw003.jpg http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...t/BkJaw005.jpg O.K. I've seen this design used before, usually on fairly small 4-jaw chucks. It has the advantage of being the easiest style of jaw to make in the home shop, so you should be able to make your own replacement jaws. However -- it looks as though this was either cast iron (machined to size and shape) or hardened and not tempered steel, so it broke under stress. If you make the jaw of a hardenable steel, leave a little extra slop in the groves because it will grow slightly from the hardening process. Then, using a torch with most of the jaw submerged, draw the temper of the overhangs which the screw bears upon. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#20
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 11, 10:17*pm, "Snag" wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote: On Oct 11, 11:32 am, "Snag" wrote: wrote: On Oct 11, 10:56 am, David Billington wrote: The same thing happened on a mates 4 jaw and as it's inpedendant he machined a new jaw from O-1 plate. Been working fine for the last 15 years IIRC.- Hide quoted text - Yes that would be an option, but I do not have a mill. Thanks, Tony Well , dang it , now y'all got me ponderin' . How about a set of "master jaws" , that a soft jaw can be bolted to ? As I mentioned over in the Logan group , it'd take a better machinist than me , but ... -- Snag "90 FLHTCU "Strider" '39 WLDD "PopCycle" BS 132/SENS/DOF MSC sells them: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4465242&PMT4NO=72243659 That's one of the less expensive models. jsw Jim , I can screw up a lot of steel , and still manage to make a usable set for a LOT less than $571.36 . Come to think about it , those might not ba as hard as I thought . Real precision is needed at the slot , but the rest doesn't need all that tight a tolerance - after all , they're adjusted independently ... and I could make them with a bit more meat at the tabs .. * Scott Logan said over at the Lathe List that Buck was mighty proud of their replacement parts . Looks like he's right on the money . Once again |
#21
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:53:41 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote: snip For drilling & pinning, would I use some drill rod and make the hole slightly smaller then press it together, then V it out and weld? Regarding one or two recessed cap screws , are you talking in place of the broken piece? This guy at work is a pretty good welder, but he does more like fabrication and welding on snow plows and tractors,and the like, don't know how he is on little precise stuff. Thanks, Tony I suspect that these are cast iron, kinda doubt if steel would have broke off like that. Could be wrong (shrug). If they are cast it will be difficult to get a weld that is as strong as it was originally, which you broke. If you try use pins be really careful not to force them too much or you could crack something else (assuming this is cast iron). I would just use some steel like grade 2 or 5 in bolts. I would be tempted to try maybe three recessed cap screws something like this (used your good jaw image to show how it would look when done): http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/bkjaw003_idea.jpg Be careful to observe how much area there is where I made an orange circle (on both sides). Easy to forget about the groove. Position the yellow areas so that you still have plenty of sidewall where you will be making threads. See what your welder says first, remember you can always grind and file some if he gets too carried away. Curious to hear if he (welder) thinks it is cast iron or not... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email |
#22
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 12, 2:55*pm, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:53:41 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: snip For drilling & pinning, would I use some drill rod and make the hole slightly smaller then press it together, then V it out and weld? Regarding one or two recessed cap screws , are you talking in place of the broken piece? This guy at work is a pretty good welder, but he does more like fabrication and welding on snow plows and tractors,and the like, don't know how he is on little precise stuff. Thanks, Tony I suspect that these are cast iron, kinda doubt if steel would have broke off like that. Could be wrong (shrug). If they are cast it will be difficult to get a weld that is as strong as it was originally, which you broke. If you try use pins be really careful not to force them too much or you could crack something else (assuming this is cast iron). I would just use some steel like grade 2 or 5 in bolts. I would be tempted to try maybe three recessed cap screws something like this (used your good jaw image to show how it would look when done): http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/bkjaw003_idea.jpg Be careful to observe how much area there is where I made an orange circle (on both sides). Easy to forget about the groove. Position the yellow areas so that you still have plenty of sidewall where you will be making threads. See what your welder says first, remember you can always grind and file some if he gets too carried away. Curious to hear if he (welder) thinks it is cast iron or not... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids *MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email I See. I'll let him look at it. I think it might be hard for *me*to do the drilling, recessing, tapping and bolting repair, but I think it would be a strong one if I could do it. We are talking a pretty small piece that is broken off here. Would need some awful tiny cap screws. We do have a machine shop that does make and repair things for us, but not sure if he would want to fool with it. Maybe I can have him look at it next time I get to go down there. Thanks, Tony |
#23
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 12, 3:14*pm, " wrote:
We do have a machine shop that does make and repair things for us, but not sure if he would want to fool with it. Maybe I can have him look at it next time I get to go down there. Thanks, Tony- You might be able to salvage the chuck by reversing the jaw and filling in the stepped side with a screwed-on block. I would reverse all of them and make the blocks out of aluminum, since you know the chuck isn't suited to heavy work. jsw |
#24
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 12, 6:11*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:14*pm, " wrote: We do have a machine shop that does make and repair things for us, but not sure if he would want to fool with it. Maybe I can have him look at it next time I get to go down there. Thanks, Tony- You might be able to salvage the chuck by reversing the jaw and filling in the stepped side with a screwed-on block. I would reverse all of them and make the blocks out of aluminum, since you know the chuck isn't suited to heavy work. jsw Thanks To All, Yes that's an Idea too, I was able to turn them all around and use it like that,In order to take the rest of the stock down too far also........LOL The jaws are not as deep though. Thanks, Tony |
#25
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On 2009-10-14, Jon Elson wrote:
wrote: Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my chuck. Made In U.S.A Buck Tool Co. Kalamazoo 444 Yow, that's amazing! Buck made some VERY fine chucks that ran to several thousand $! This is obviously not one of those, however. It looks to be a REALLY weak design. If you ever chuck up work shorter than the depth of the jaws, it puts extreme force on that lip at the back of the jaw. I have had several independent 4-jaws over the years, and they all had a decent length of half-screw thread on the back of the jaw, and the screw had a notched-down section that rode in a ring in the chuck body to act as a thrust collar. I've had and used a third design, too. The screw is notched in the center, but that engages a half-bearing formed by a projection from the back of the chuck jaw, and the screw travels in a tapped hole in the chuck body instead. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#26
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Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
On Oct 14, 12:58*am, Jon Elson wrote:
If you ever chuck up work shorter than the depth of the jaws, it puts extreme force on that lip at the back of the jaw. Jon Thanks again to all. I think that is "key" here. I know it's not the best chuck in the world, but it should meet my needs (light duty, occasional use) I did not know about the above fact,as this was the first time I had used it. Anyway, it appears to be a one-piece, screw-on chuck, it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement. *I fear that any attempt to fix that jaw is going to be a real stop-gap measure that won't hold. Jon I would like to find a replacement jaw, but not having any luck. Any and all leads welcome. Oh, I think you meant a replacement chuck? Thanks, Tony |
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