I just bought a "new" car. A '92 with 123K miles. It's "new" in the
sense that it's 4 years newer than my previous one, with 100k fewer miles.

Catching up on some maintenance included changing the ATF. There's a
drain plug on the tranny pan, but I decided to do it "right" by pulling
the pan & cleaning the filter. A decision that was most regretful.

The very first pan bolt broke. Gaahh!! So I got out the Kroil & hit
the others with it. While they soaked, I took another 6mm bolt and
determined what air pressure on my air wrench would break it, then set
the regulator well below that.

After a day or 2 of repeated Kroiling, I tried the "safe" air wrench &
broke 2 more bolts!!! Geez!

While more Kroil was working I remembered I gizmo I had. A "Torq-Mate"
by Jacobs. It turns a hand drill into an impact driver, kind of. I
never found it very useful - too little torque. But too little torque
was what I needed now. It worked beautifully. No more broken bolts in
the remaining 10 or so.

Meanwhile the dipstick tube is fastened to the side of the pan & it
needed to come off. Yeah, right. I used Kroil on it for almost a week,
I heated it (very hot) with a MAPP turbo torch, I hit the wrench with a
3 lb hammer, & I used a piece of pipe slipped over the wrench. Without
the flare-nut twitching. When I did get it off, there was no rust! But
a big section of broken-off threads. 2 threads long & about 40% around:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...PipeThread.jpg

Here's the dilemma: do I just put it back, knowing that I'll never have
to remove it again, or do I do it right & replace the whole tube? Which
means removing a bracket holding bolt which I wasn't able to budge.

It's not over: one of the filter bolts was blocked by a tube (on the
right in the pic). In getting the bolt out, the tube came loose!
Another dilemma: do I just push it back (it didn't take much to loosen
it)? If not, what do I do?

So, after a week I have 3 broken bolts to get out, broken threads on the
flare nut, and a loose tube. Did I say that my decision to drop the pan
has been regretted?

Doing it right isn't always best,
Bob

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
I just bought a "new" car. A '92 with 123K miles. It's "new" in the sense
that it's 4 years newer than my previous one, with 100k fewer miles.

Catching up on some maintenance included changing the ATF. There's a
drain plug on the tranny pan, but I decided to do it "right" by pulling
the pan & cleaning the filter. A decision that was most regretful.

The very first pan bolt broke. Gaahh!! So I got out the Kroil & hit the
others with it. While they soaked, I took another 6mm bolt and determined
what air pressure on my air wrench would break it, then set the regulator
well below that.

After a day or 2 of repeated Kroiling, I tried the "safe" air wrench &
broke 2 more bolts!!! Geez!

While more Kroil was working I remembered I gizmo I had. A "Torq-Mate" by
Jacobs. It turns a hand drill into an impact driver, kind of. I never
found it very useful - too little torque. But too little torque was what
I needed now. It worked beautifully. No more broken bolts in the
remaining 10 or so.

Meanwhile the dipstick tube is fastened to the side of the pan & it needed
to come off. Yeah, right. I used Kroil on it for almost a week, I heated
it (very hot) with a MAPP turbo torch, I hit the wrench with a 3 lb
hammer, & I used a piece of pipe slipped over the wrench. Without the
flare-nut twitching. When I did get it off, there was no rust! But a big
section of broken-off threads. 2 threads long & about 40% around:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhar...PipeThread.jpg

Here's the dilemma: do I just put it back, knowing that I'll never have to
remove it again, or do I do it right & replace the whole tube? Which
means removing a bracket holding bolt which I wasn't able to budge.

It's not over: one of the filter bolts was blocked by a tube (on the right
in the pic). In getting the bolt out, the tube came loose! Another
dilemma: do I just push it back (it didn't take much to loosen it)? If
not, what do I do?

So, after a week I have 3 broken bolts to get out, broken threads on the
flare nut, and a loose tube. Did I say that my decision to drop the pan
has been regretted?

Doing it right isn't always best,
Bob

Is your car insured for fire?

Steve

JR North wrote:
Make/model?

240 Volvo station wagon (the 240 is the entry level Volvo). Aka
"Swedish brick".

The tubes are just push fit in the valve body. Just seat
them, and don't worry about it.

Thank you! It's a relief to hear that.

Also, pulling the pan is just a half
job. If the cooler lines go to the rad, take one off, (doesn't matter
which one) attach a short length of hose to the nipple, and zip-tie
both hoses together, pointing down into your drain pan. add 2-3 qts,
and start the engine in park. This will flush the valve body and
torque converter. When the hoses start spitting air, stop the engine,
add 2-3 more atf, and repeat, until the fluid runs clear/red.

Actually, that was part of the original plan, before I got so deep into
regretting the whole thing. Then there's the fact that the fitting on
the rad line is rusted good! Just to show that I do have perseverance,
though, I'll give it a shot.

Question: if I disconnected the *return* line from the rad, wouldn't I
get the rad flushed also? And you speak of hoses (plural). I thought
it was just one hose, attached to the return line, & dumping into a
bucket. With clean ATF being supplied from the re-attached tran pan.
Am I missing something?

Thanks!
Bob

SteveB wrote:
Is your car insured for fire?

Sadly, no. Do you suppose that there's waiting period on fire insurance?

Bob

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

I just bought a "new" car. A '92 with 123K miles. It's "new" in the
sense that it's 4 years newer than my previous one, with 100k fewer miles.

Catching up on some maintenance included changing the ATF. There's a
drain plug on the tranny pan, but I decided to do it "right" by pulling
the pan & cleaning the filter. A decision that was most regretful.

The very first pan bolt broke. Gaahh!!


I feel your pain Bob. A better than average effort turns into a march through quick sand.

One of the nice features of my Saturn is a canister spin on filter with a ring magnet to
pick up the metal that the friction elements tend to rub off the metal parts. I wish all
auto transmissions used that system.

I don't drain the torque converter or cooler though. I've just drained out the 4 quarts
that come out, put a new filter on and repeat every year. 2001 Saturn SL1, 183,000 miles
that I occasionally tow a 5x8 utility trailer with.

I do not like using power tools when breaking loose fasteners from automobiles. If you
had used a hand tool, you would have felt something going wrong and had the chance to
reconsider what you are doing.

Wes


--

Perception is reality or is it the other way around?

Wes wrote:
... A better than average effort turns into a march through quick sand.

Good one, I like it.

...
I do not like using power tools when breaking loose fasteners from automobiles. If you
had used a hand tool, you would have felt something going wrong and had the chance to
reconsider what you are doing.

I broke the 1st one with a hand wrench. The 6mm "bolt" (1/4") was just
not strong enough to give me good feedback. I switched to power after
that thinking that I could limit it to less than the breaking point of
the bolt. Which I did (after breaking 2 more, that is).

BTW, I just got through drilling out the broken ones - what a PITA! My
1st rule for drilling steel is "Do it on a drill press". Couldn't do
that. Second rule is "If not, drill *down*, so you can your weight
behind it". Couldn't do that. What a bitch - drilling upside down, on
a creeper!

Thanks,
Bob

JR North wrote:
Since you can't easily tell with cooler hose is feed, and which is
return, pulling one, and tubing the nipple-no matter which way the fluid
is flowing, ONE of the tubes will discharge-either one-doesn't matter.

I get it: you disconnect either cooler tube and put a piece of hose on
EACH side of the disconnect. ATF will come out of one of the hoses.

To follow up my saga:
- one of the 3 drilled out bolt holes was too wallowed out to hold a new
bolt. It's not leaking without it, but I'll tap it 7 mm if it does leak.
- the broken-thread flare nut on the dipstick tube has a very small
leak. Dang! Maybe it'll go away.
- the tubes to and from the radiator connect to the tranny behind the
exhaust! I.e., I couldn't get a wrench on either of them. (Without
removing the exhaust, which I was NOT about to do!!) But, the
connection at the radiator was easily accessed and came off readily.
Finally, something cooperated!

The bottom line is, after all this misery, the filter didn't need
cleaning. From the looks of it, it wouldn't need cleaning after 10X the
mileage. But there was some sludge on the bottom of the pan that I was
glad to get rid of.

Very relieved to be done with it,
Bob

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:52:16 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

I just bought a "new" car. A '92 with 123K miles. It's "new" in the
sense that it's 4 years newer than my previous one, with 100k fewer miles.

Catching up on some maintenance included changing the ATF. There's a
drain plug on the tranny pan, but I decided to do it "right" by pulling
the pan & cleaning the filter. A decision that was most regretful.

I.e., when all else fails, read the instructions? :-

Cheers!
Rich