Elderly Americans are turning out in droves to fight ObamaCare, and
President Obama is arguing back that they have nothing to worry about. Allow
us to referee. While claims about euthanasia and "death panels" are over the
top, senior fears have exposed a fundamental truth about what Mr. Obama is
proposing: Namely, once health care is nationalized, or mostly nationalized,
rationing care is inevitable, and those who have lived the longest will find
their care the most restricted.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...152168372.html

Best Regards

Tom.

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Elderly Americans are turning out in droves to fight ObamaCare, and
President Obama is arguing back that they have nothing to worry about.
Allow us to referee. While claims about euthanasia and "death panels" are
over the top, senior fears have exposed a fundamental truth about what Mr.
Obama is proposing: Namely, once health care is nationalized, or mostly
nationalized, rationing care is inevitable, and those who have lived the
longest will find their care the most restricted.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...152168372.html

Best Regards

Tom.

I seem to remember Bernie Madoff saying, don't worry, just give me your
money. Maybe Bernie passed the torch to Big Lips.

Steve

mattathayde had written this in response to
http://rittercnc.com/metalworking/OT...rs-194583-.htm :


-------------------------------------
azotic wrote:


Elderly Americans are turning out in droves to fight ObamaCare, and
President Obama is arguing back that they have nothing to worry about.
Allow
us to referee. While claims about euthanasia and "death
panels" are over the
top, senior fears have exposed a fundamental truth about what Mr. Obama
is
proposing: Namely, once health care is nationalized, or mostly
nationalized,
rationing care is inevitable, and those who have lived the longest will
find
their care the most restricted.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...152168372.html

Best Regards

Tom.




"nationalized" is not what is going to happen, regulation is not
nationalization. yes there will be a government option but you are still
paying
extra to get the option instead of just preset tax you have to pay and
will
still get it if you want it or not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/ma...2&pagewanted=1
breaks down the idea of "rationing" showing that now healthcare is
rationed but
it is done so based on if you have money or not, it also explains the
quality of
life unit or what ever they call it that basically breaks down roughly how
much
quality of life some one gains from a procedure (which are used already by
insurance companies). yes as an individual and family member you want
everything that can be done, but when it starts to cost millions of
dollars for
a few more months that is being greedy and wasteful when that same money
can
help others gain much better life or if it is your out of pocket money
could
take care of your family for years and years

-matt


##-----------------------------------------------##
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On Aug 14, 9:32*am, "SteveB" wrote:

I seem to remember Bernie Madoff saying, don't worry, just give me your
money. *Maybe Bernie passed the torch to Big Lips.

Steve

Steve -

Is it possible for you to engage in a serious conversation about a
serious matter without injecting this racist crap?

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:35:23 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Elderly Americans are turning out in droves to fight ObamaCare, and
President Obama is arguing back that they have nothing to worry about. Allow
us to referee. While claims about euthanasia and "death panels" are over the
top, senior fears have exposed a fundamental truth about what Mr. Obama is
proposing: Namely, once health care is nationalized, or mostly nationalized,
rationing care is inevitable, and those who have lived the longest will find
their care the most restricted.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...152168372.html

Best Regards

Tom.

===========
It is well to remember that while the current health care
"debate," at least on a conscious level, is about "health care,"
in reality, it is only a fig leaf for far more contentious
problems such as the ever expanding role of government in society
and the economy, the rise of the sovereign corporations largely
exempt from governmental oversight/control/taxation, and the
serious strains being placed on the society/culture by
uncontrolled immigration and the accelerating marginalization of
ever larger segments of the population.

This angst is greatly compounded and amplified by the collapse of
several deeply held subliminal myths, such as "individual
responsibility," "self-reliance," and "the free market" which
have served as a soporific and opiate for large numbers of the
American population.

I do not have any solutions for these problems (only for a few of
the symptoms), but it should be clear that simply being "agin any
change," is comparable to attempting to "treat" your child with
prayer, when they are suffering from cancer or diabetes.

In too many ways, the U.S. Government is simply a larger version
of GM, complete with entrenched executives still wandering around
in the 60s, total denial of societal/economic changes, and a
collective adamant refusal to examine facts and take action.
Until and unless drastic foundational change is made, the
problems will only get worse, not better.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:52:35 -0500, the infamous F. George McDuffee
scrawled the following:

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:35:23 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Elderly Americans are turning out in droves to fight ObamaCare, and
President Obama is arguing back that they have nothing to worry about. Allow
us to referee. While claims about euthanasia and "death panels" are over the
top, senior fears have exposed a fundamental truth about what Mr. Obama is
proposing: Namely, once health care is nationalized, or mostly nationalized,
rationing care is inevitable, and those who have lived the longest will find
their care the most restricted.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...152168372.html

Best Regards

Tom.

===========
It is well to remember that while the current health care
"debate," at least on a conscious level, is about "health care,"
in reality, it is only a fig leaf for far more contentious
problems such as the ever expanding role of government in society
and the economy, the rise of the sovereign corporations largely
exempt from governmental oversight/control/taxation, and the
serious strains being placed on the society/culture by
uncontrolled immigration and the accelerating marginalization of
ever larger segments of the population.

This angst is greatly compounded and amplified by the collapse of
several deeply held subliminal myths, such as "individual
responsibility," "self-reliance," and "the free market" which
have served as a soporific and opiate for large numbers of the
American population.

'Splain this one, please. I think I may still be in that stupor.


I do not have any solutions for these problems (only for a few of
the symptoms), but it should be clear that simply being "agin any
change," is comparable to attempting to "treat" your child with
prayer, when they are suffering from cancer or diabetes.

In too many ways, the U.S. Government is simply a larger version
of GM, complete with entrenched executives still wandering around
in the 60s, total denial of societal/economic changes, and a
collective adamant refusal to examine facts and take action.
Until and unless drastic foundational change is made, the
problems will only get worse, not better.

Two huge points, Unka G.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:41:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
snip
This angst is greatly compounded and amplified by the collapse of
several deeply held subliminal myths, such as "individual
responsibility," "self-reliance," and "the free market" which
have served as a soporific and opiate for large numbers of the
American population.

'Splain this one, please. I think I may still be in that stupor.
snip
This will be sure to raise the hackles of many people, but in
reality many of the coping skills and attitudes that have served
the older generations [and our generation up to a few years ago]
very well are no longer functional/operational.

For example, being the "master of your craft" is no longer a
guarantee of a good job or even employment in that the industry
which requires those skills may sell-out at any moment to a
company in China, throwing you out of work and rendering your
painfully acquired skills and tools worthless. For example, you
can be the best tool grinder or designer in the world, but if
there are no more tools being made in your area, you will have to
relocate and start over [do you speak Mandarin?], or start
another career, which is likely to be cut short.

For example it was just announced that Kennametal
{Chicago-Latrobe, Cleveland Twist, Cle-line, Bassett, Vermont Tap
& Die, Putnam, and several other lesser known lines} has just
been sold to the Top-East drill company in Dalian China for 29
million in cash. This after losing 138 million in the third
quarter.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...0News/2399535/
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...0News/2358708/

Editorial note: In addition to economic impact on the people and
communities directly involved, there are large national defense
issues here such as military preparedness involved here. Where
do we get the tools when (not if) it is again necessary to
mobilize?

Other examples are the snare and delusions of "financial
planning" that relied on company pension and retirement benefits
and 401ks/IRAs on top of Social Security for a comfortable (and
possibly early) retirement.

Even people that were very cautious about their housing have
gotten trapped when that bubble burst. Not so much that they
overextend themselves on the size of the loans/house, but rather
that their employment disappeared.

People that have graduated from college in the last 10 years, who
invested heavily in "education," are now taking it in the shorts
big time as their student loans must still be re-paid, their out
of work, and are being told they are "overqualified" for the
available positions.

It should be clear that most of the "assets" in which people
invested were "magic beans" of no value, e.g. Enron stock, and
that anything of real value that is not nailed to the floor has
been stripped by management, e.g. GM, Delco/Delphi, Chrysler and
Vestion pension assets.

The multi-million dollar bonuses at the taxpayer bailed out
banks/brokerages/insurance companies are another giant knot in my
pantyhose.

Rule of thumb: If they are wearing a suit and their lips are
moving, they are lying to you.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:41:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
snip
This angst is greatly compounded and amplified by the collapse of
several deeply held subliminal myths, such as "individual
responsibility," "self-reliance," and "the free market" which
have served as a soporific and opiate for large numbers of the
American population.

'Splain this one, please. I think I may still be in that stupor.
snip
This will be sure to raise the hackles of many people, but in
reality many of the coping skills and attitudes that have served
the older generations [and our generation up to a few years ago]
very well are no longer functional/operational.

For example, being the "master of your craft" is no longer a
guarantee of a good job or even employment in that the industry
which requires those skills may sell-out at any moment to a
company in China, throwing you out of work and rendering your
painfully acquired skills and tools worthless. For example, you
can be the best tool grinder or designer in the world, but if
there are no more tools being made in your area, you will have to
relocate and start over [do you speak Mandarin?], or start
another career, which is likely to be cut short.

I think the current job climate favors the adaptable. We live in the world of lean where
everyone wears many hats, has to adapt to the situation at hand. Being a pro at a niche
isn't as safe as it used to be. It you are the type that does the "that ain't my job"
routine at work, you will be right, it won't be your job.


For example it was just announced that Kennametal
{Chicago-Latrobe, Cleveland Twist, Cle-line, Bassett, Vermont Tap
& Die, Putnam, and several other lesser known lines} has just
been sold to the Top-East drill company in Dalian China for 29
million in cash. This after losing 138 million in the third
quarter.

Three of those brands have American cities or states in the name which is what China is
buying. The typical American that tries to buy US goods will think he is buying
domestically produced products when it is just more stuff from China.

I get sick of picking items that imply US origin but are nothing but a purchased trademark
held by a foreign company.


Editorial note: In addition to economic impact on the people and
communities directly involved, there are large national defense
issues here such as military preparedness involved here. Where
do we get the tools when (not if) it is again necessary to
mobilize?

We may still have the technology to make advanced microchips but we have shipped off our
technology for mass production of the devices those chips are used in.

If we have a war with a hostile major power, I figure it will be China when they try to
take back Taiwan. So we should assume any manufacturing we export to China will be
unavailable if there is a conflict.


Other examples are the snare and delusions of "financial
planning" that relied on company pension and retirement benefits
and 401ks/IRAs on top of Social Security for a comfortable (and
possibly early) retirement.

Putting money away is never a bad choice. Living like tomorrow will never have a cloudy
day like many in America is part of our problem. No matter how bad you think you have it,
someone else is doing worse. We are not a nation of savers because we have been groomed
to be a nation of consumers and expect government to provide for any emergency caused by
poor planning on our part.


Even people that were very cautious about their housing have
gotten trapped when that bubble burst. Not so much that they
overextend themselves on the size of the loans/house, but rather
that their employment disappeared.

We are not owed an uneventful life.



People that have graduated from college in the last 10 years, who
invested heavily in "education," are now taking it in the shorts
big time as their student loans must still be re-paid, their out
of work, and are being told they are "overqualified" for the
available positions.

Dumb down your resume. Target to the position you seek.
You get fired for overstating your education, not the other way around.


It should be clear that most of the "assets" in which people
invested were "magic beans" of no value, e.g. Enron stock, and
that anything of real value that is not nailed to the floor has
been stripped by management, e.g. GM, Delco/Delphi, Chrysler and
Vestion pension assets.

The multi-million dollar bonuses at the taxpayer bailed out
banks/brokerages/insurance companies are another giant knot in my
pantyhose.

I don't buy in to "too big to fail". I think failure should have happened and as much as
I dislike it, the government should have taken over those firms much like the FDIC does
with banks.

Rule of thumb: If they are wearing a suit and their lips are
moving, they are lying to you.

Or not answering the question put to them. That seems to be the current method of
deflection, talk on forever on tangential issues and never get to an answer. AKA
Filibustering.

Wes

On Aug 15, 1:19*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:


For example, being the "master of your craft" is no longer a
guarantee of a good job or even employment in that the industry
which requires those skills may sell-out at any moment to a
company in China, throwing you out of work and rendering your
painfully acquired skills and tools worthless. *For example, you
can be the best tool grinder or designer in the world, but if
there are no more tools being made in your area, you will have to
relocate and start over [do you speak Mandarin?], or start
another career, which is likely to be cut short.


Certainly can not agree with you here. What is the alternate? Being
a poor tool grinder will get you out of work much faster than if you
are good. Besides when you are at work you might as well work at
being good, instead of goofing off every chance you get. The top tool
grinder is more likely to be offered a job on the next level up.

The top people in any profession make lots more money than the second
rate people. Think the top athletes, entertainers, corporate
officers, college presidents, doctors, etc.



Other examples are the snare and delusions of "financial
planning" that relied on company pension and retirement benefits
and 401ks/IRAs on top of Social Security for a comfortable (and
possibly early) retirement.

And you alternate is to not do any fiancial planning? I do think it
is foolish to turn over your planning to someone else. My 401k rolled
over to an IRA is what makes for my comfortable retirement. The
company pension and Social Security are not near as significant. *

Even people that were very cautious about their housing have
gotten trapped when that bubble burst. *Not so much that they
overextend themselves on the size of the loans/house, but rather
that their employment disappeared.

Part of your financial planning should be to have enough savings to
get by for a year.

People that have graduated from college in the last 10 years, who
invested heavily in "education," are now taking it in the shorts
big time as their student loans must still be re-paid, their out
of work, and are being told they are "overqualified" for the
available positions.

It should be clear that most of the "assets" in which people
invested were "magic beans" of no value, e.g. Enron stock, and
that anything of real value that is not nailed to the floor has
been stripped by management, e.g. GM, Delco/Delphi, Chrysler and
Vestion pension assets. *

I really question your " most " in the sentence with "most of the '
assets' ". I think that most companies have kept the things of real
value. Look at the top companies. Exxon Mobile, Walmart, Chevron,
Conoco Phillips, General Electric are the largest US corporations.


The multi-million dollar bonuses at the taxpayer bailed out
banks/brokerages/insurance companies are another giant knot in my
pantyhose.

Rule of thumb: *If they are wearing a suit and their lips are
moving, they are lying to you.

Trust but Verify. Not everyone is out to get you, but for sure some
of them are.
Members of Congress are under more pressure to lie than most.

Dan


Unka' George [George McDuffee]

"azotic" wrote in message
...
Elderly Americans are turning out in droves to fight ObamaCare, and
President Obama is arguing back that they have nothing to worry about.
Allow us to referee. While claims about euthanasia and "death panels" are
over the top, senior fears have exposed a fundamental truth about what Mr.
Obama is proposing: Namely, once health care is nationalized, or mostly
nationalized, rationing care is inevitable, and those who have lived the
longest will find their care the most restricted.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...152168372.html

Best Regards

Tom.



http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000010748.cfm

Richard W.

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 08:12:51 -0400, Wes wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:41:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
snip
This angst is greatly compounded and amplified by the collapse of
several deeply held subliminal myths, such as "individual
responsibility," "self-reliance," and "the free market" which
have served as a soporific and opiate for large numbers of the
American population.

'Splain this one, please. I think I may still be in that stupor.
snip
This will be sure to raise the hackles of many people, but in
reality many of the coping skills and attitudes that have served
the older generations [and our generation up to a few years ago]
very well are no longer functional/operational.

For example, being the "master of your craft" is no longer a
guarantee of a good job or even employment in that the industry
which requires those skills may sell-out at any moment to a
company in China, throwing you out of work and rendering your
painfully acquired skills and tools worthless. For example, you
can be the best tool grinder or designer in the world, but if
there are no more tools being made in your area, you will have to
relocate and start over [do you speak Mandarin?], or start
another career, which is likely to be cut short.

I think the current job climate favors the adaptable. We live in the world of lean where
everyone wears many hats, has to adapt to the situation at hand. Being a pro at a niche
isn't as safe as it used to be. It you are the type that does the "that ain't my job"
routine at work, you will be right, it won't be your job.

It does indeed, but never slow down....


For example it was just announced that Kennametal
{Chicago-Latrobe, Cleveland Twist, Cle-line, Bassett, Vermont Tap
& Die, Putnam, and several other lesser known lines} has just
been sold to the Top-East drill company in Dalian China for 29
million in cash. This after losing 138 million in the third
quarter.

Three of those brands have American cities or states in the name which is what China is
buying. The typical American that tries to buy US goods will think he is buying
domestically produced products when it is just more stuff from China.

I get sick of picking items that imply US origin but are nothing but a purchased trademark
held by a foreign company.

As some one else noted, most American corporations in the last
analysis are now financial firms rather than manufacturing firms.
This is a disaster because for the financial firms to
operate/exist there must be "things of value" to trade. [e.g.
very few financial firms paying multi-million dollar bonuses in
Somalia or Afghanistan...]

From automobiles and machine tools/tooling through computer
programming and services such as accounting, medical and legal,
much of the domestic US value generating operations have been
liquidated/offshored through "international trade." Note that
because of the transnational character of most large
corporations, even new developments/products developed here are
almost immediately "exported" for foreign manufacture and import
due to the [apparent] lower labor/environmental costs and
potential for tax avoidance/evasion.

Editorial note: In addition to economic impact on the people and
communities directly involved, there are large national defense
issues here such as military preparedness involved here. Where
do we get the tools when (not if) it is again necessary to
mobilize?

We may still have the technology to make advanced microchips but we have shipped off our
technology for mass production of the devices those chips are used in.

If we have a war with a hostile major power, I figure it will be China when they try to
take back Taiwan. So we should assume any manufacturing we export to China will be
unavailable if there is a conflict.

AFAICT that "war" has already been lost, and the middle kingdom
is about to reassert itself after 300-400 years.

Other examples are the snare and delusions of "financial
planning" that relied on company pension and retirement benefits
and 401ks/IRAs on top of Social Security for a comfortable (and
possibly early) retirement.

Putting money away is never a bad choice. Living like tomorrow will never have a cloudy
day like many in America is part of our problem. No matter how bad you think you have it,
someone else is doing worse. We are not a nation of savers because we have been groomed
to be a nation of consumers and expect government to provide for any emergency caused by
poor planning on our part.

Indeed it is not and as Ben Franklin is said to have observed
"three true friends are an old wife, and old dog, and ready
money." The problem is how do you put "money" away? As
indicated, much of the "assets" in which people "invested"
[stocks, bonds, real estate] turned out to be some version of
"magic beans" of no value, and the interest on cash savings is
far below the rate of inflation + tax effect. Indeed, even if
you put your money under the mattress, you still lose.


Even people that were very cautious about their housing have
gotten trapped when that bubble burst. Not so much that they
overextend themselves on the size of the loans/house, but rather
that their employment disappeared.

We are not owed an uneventful life.

No, but we are owed honest dealing.


People that have graduated from college in the last 10 years, who
invested heavily in "education," are now taking it in the shorts
big time as their student loans must still be re-paid, their out
of work, and are being told they are "overqualified" for the
available positions.

Dumb down your resume. Target to the position you seek.
You get fired for overstating your education, not the other way around.


It should be clear that most of the "assets" in which people
invested were "magic beans" of no value, e.g. Enron stock, and
that anything of real value that is not nailed to the floor has
been stripped by management, e.g. GM, Delco/Delphi, Chrysler and
Vestion pension assets.

The multi-million dollar bonuses at the taxpayer bailed out
banks/brokerages/insurance companies are another giant knot in my
pantyhose.

I don't buy in to "too big to fail". I think failure should have happened and as much as
I dislike it, the government should have taken over those firms much like the FDIC does
with banks.

Indeed, and this is exactly the point where the "free market"
becomes another soporific/opiate myth and legend. With the
government propping up "the too big to fail corporations" [with
the tax payers' money] on the one hand and setting by fiat one of
the most basic market parameters [interest rates] on the other,
where is the "free" market?

As one of my suggestions on treating the symptoms, a governmental
policy should exist (and be rigidly enforced) that any private
firm that is "too big to fail" is too big, and must be split up
into smaller pieces, i.e. "bust the trusts." Another suggestion
is that any major corporation that has three consecutive years of
net operating losses automatically goes into Chapter 11 for
reorganization/restructuring, and termination of executive
contracts. Also it should be the law that a second corporate
bankruptcy within 5 years is automatically chapter 7 /
liquidation. One bite at the apple is enough.


Rule of thumb: If they are wearing a suit and their lips are
moving, they are lying to you.

Or not answering the question put to them. That seems to be the current method of
deflection, talk on forever on tangential issues and never get to an answer. AKA
Filibustering.

Another good argument for grand jury investigations. Either
answer the question or go to jail for contempt.

Wes

One of the worst aspects of these changes is that the "smart"
career path now appears to be to pass the Federal civil service
exams and become a career bureaucrat.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:19:39 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:


The multi-million dollar bonuses at the taxpayer bailed out
banks/brokerages/insurance companies are another giant knot in my
pantyhose.

Rule of thumb: If they are wearing a suit and their lips are
moving, they are lying to you.

However...it should be remembered that a suit is NOT bullet proof.


'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

Gunner Asch wrote:

However...it should be remembered that a suit is NOT bullet proof.

It is if you buy the right suit.

WEs
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:20:47 -0400, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

Gunner Asch wrote:

However...it should be remembered that a suit is NOT bullet proof.

It is if you buy the right suit.

Even then, they're only safe from pistols.

--
If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the
thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power
to revoke at any moment. -- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:20:47 -0400, Wes wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

However...it should be remembered that a suit is NOT bullet proof.

It is if you buy the right suit.

WEs


True indeed. Or at least..the lining is. However...most Libtards wear
$1000 suits that have no Kevlar in them. G

Not even knife or arrow proof.


'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:31:24 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:20:47 -0400, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

Gunner Asch wrote:

However...it should be remembered that a suit is NOT bullet proof.

It is if you buy the right suit.

Even then, they're only safe from pistols.

Most..most pistols. But not all.





'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:20:47 -0400, Wes wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

However...it should be remembered that a suit is NOT bullet proof.

It is if you buy the right suit.

WEs


True indeed. Or at least..the lining is. However...most Libtards wear
$1000 suits that have no Kevlar in them. G

Not even knife or arrow proof.


They should buy a fire proof suit for thier final destination.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:30:40 -0700, "azotic" wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:20:47 -0400, Wes wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

However...it should be remembered that a suit is NOT bullet proof.

It is if you buy the right suit.

WEs


True indeed. Or at least..the lining is. However...most Libtards wear
$1000 suits that have no Kevlar in them. G

Not even knife or arrow proof.


They should buy a fire proof suit for thier final destination.

Best Regards
Tom.

ROFLMAO!! Well said..very well said!!


'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith
becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man
because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the
person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag,
the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language.. and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Ro osevelt 1907

F. George McDuffee wrote:

Putting money away is never a bad choice. Living like tomorrow will never have a cloudy
day like many in America is part of our problem. No matter how bad you think you have it,
someone else is doing worse. We are not a nation of savers because we have been groomed
to be a nation of consumers and expect government to provide for any emergency caused by
poor planning on our part.

Indeed it is not and as Ben Franklin is said to have observed
"three true friends are an old wife, and old dog, and ready
money." The problem is how do you put "money" away? As
indicated, much of the "assets" in which people "invested"
[stocks, bonds, real estate] turned out to be some version of
"magic beans" of no value, and the interest on cash savings is
far below the rate of inflation + tax effect. Indeed, even if
you put your money under the mattress, you still lose.


I like the Ben Franklin quote!

As to investing, gold, guns and ammo?

Of course FDR made gold illegal and if our current leftist leaders could they would make
guns and ammo illegal.


Even people that were very cautious about their housing have
gotten trapped when that bubble burst. Not so much that they
overextend themselves on the size of the loans/house, but rather
that their employment disappeared.

We are not owed an uneventful life.

No, but we are owed honest dealing.

We can hope but to get that we have to elect honest politicians to create honest law.

Sadly too many voters vote for pols that say they can get things for them by taking it off
of others. When voters are thieves, they elect thieves.

Wes