Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering dumping
windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a new
laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight
and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

Pete Keillor

On 2009-02-03, Pete Keillor wrote:
Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering dumping
windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a new
laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight
and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

Pete Keillor

Pete, I do not personally make any CAD drawings. I am going to
investigate it a little. I know that there is BRLCAD for Linux
available, I tried it a while ago and found to be powerful. I am
looking at CYCAS right now. Seems to work, not that I know
anything. Cycas is a free (of charge) program, with some use
limitations, but you can upgrade for a ful license for 48 euros.

BRLCAD is completely free software.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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Ignoramus14358 wrote:
On 2009-02-03, Pete Keillor wrote:
Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering dumping
windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a new
laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight
and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

Pete Keillor

Pete, I do not personally make any CAD drawings. I am going to
investigate it a little. I know that there is BRLCAD for Linux
available, I tried it a while ago and found to be powerful. I am
looking at CYCAS right now. Seems to work, not that I know
anything. Cycas is a free (of charge) program, with some use
limitations, but you can upgrade for a ful license for 48 euros.

BRLCAD is completely free software.

BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.

cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus14358 wrote:

BRLCAD is completely free software.

BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.

So, Richard, what exactly about it sucks?

Just curious,

Stuart

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus14358 wrote:

BRLCAD is completely free software.

BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.

So, Richard, what exactly about it sucks?

Just curious,

Stuart

I expect that like most things Linux, it is inconsistent, poorly
documented, minimally supported, and probably rather amateurish in many
ways.

Pete C. wrote:
Stuart Wheaton wrote:

cavelamb wrote:

Ignoramus14358 wrote:

BRLCAD is completely free software.

BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.

So, Richard, what exactly about it sucks?

Just curious,

Stuart


I expect that like most things Linux, it is inconsistent, poorly
documented, minimally supported, and probably rather amateurish in many
ways.

I would say as a Windows software developer that some of those comments
can be leveled at MS Windows software and documentation as well. I have
an MSDN susbscription and for many things these days google is a better
source of documentation than the MSDN help and I'm not the only one to
think so, a fellow programmer spoke to some MS developers that said the
same.

Pete C. wrote:
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus14358 wrote:
BRLCAD is completely free software.
BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.
So, Richard, what exactly about it sucks?

Just curious,

Stuart

I expect that like most things Linux, it is inconsistent, poorly
documented, minimally supported, and probably rather amateurish in many
ways.


I try not to, too often, call another man's dog ugly...

On 2009-02-03, Pete C. wrote:

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus14358 wrote:

BRLCAD is completely free software.

BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.

So, Richard, what exactly about it sucks?

Just curious,

Stuart

I expect that like most things Linux, it is inconsistent, poorly
documented, minimally supported, and probably rather amateurish in many
ways.

Actually -- it was developed by the U.S. Army Balistics Research
Lab (the "BRL" of "BRLCAD"), and it was tailored for what *they* needed
it to do. It may be very good for their tasks, and a bit awkward for
the HSM. Think of it as being like using a drawing program aimed at
architectural work (.e.g. dimensions in feet and inches) and trying to
use it to design a wris****ch. :-) And one developed for architectural
work would probably not have good features for doing circles and
fillets.

They used it on more industrial unix boxen -- Suns, SGIs and the
like back when they were developing it, not on linux. And in those days
you had to register to download the source. The place where I worked
(U.S. Army Night Vision Labs) used it for some things -- but not in the
branch where I was working, so I don't have personal experience with it.

Since it was developed using taxpayer money, and it has no truly
classified parts, it pretty much had to be released free eventually,
just like EMC (which was developed by the NIST).

Enjoy,
DoN.

P.S. I probably won't see just what cavelamb does not like about
it as I killfiled him some time ago as contributing too much
to the political spam and such and not enough to the
metalworking part of things.

IRRC -- he goes in cycles, but I decided that the good side of
the cycles was not good enough to put up with the bad side. :-)

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Pete C." fired this volley in news:4988c526$0
:

BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.

So, Richard, what exactly about it sucks?

Just curious,

Stuart

I expect that like most things Linux, it is inconsistent, poorly
documented, minimally supported, and probably rather amateurish in
many
ways.



None of that really addresses BRLCAD's condition.

BRLCAD was written BY command-line programmers FOR command-line
programmers. It's a command-driven 3D CAD system that requires that
the user define objects with a list of parameters. It doesn't (didn't
at my last use) have an "intuitive" GUI interface. You cannot just
"draw" objects in it; you must _define_ them with a string of
operands.

Now... there are some benefits to that, like being able to ably
structure the order in which polygons are define, etc. But there are
quite capable post-processors in GUI-driven CAD systems that will re-
order your drawings in order to make "machine sense". So, the
inability to simply _draw_ a 3D object in BRLCAD makes it difficult to
use and completely un-intuitive to the visually-oriented user.

After all, it was developed by the military, FOR the military. What
about them has ever made much sense? (ex-Navy river-rat)

LLoyd

Stuart Wheaton wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Ignoramus14358 wrote:

BRLCAD is completely free software.

BRLCAD also completely sucks.

But that's just my humble opinion.

So, Richard, what exactly about it sucks?

Just curious,

Stuart


Heavy on the solid modeling but weak on intuitive drafting.

Lots of analysis features (that I'll never use).

My impression is that it's a great system for programmers
by programmers.

From Wiki:

Although BRL-CAD can be used for a variety of engineering and graphics
applications, the package's primary purpose continues to be the support of
ballistic and electromagnetic analyses. In keeping with the Unix philosophy of
developing independent tools to perform single, specific tasks and then linking
the tools together in a package, BRL-CAD is basically a collection of libraries,
tools, and utilities that work together to create, raytrace, and interrogate
geometry and manipulate files and data


But then I'm pretty spoiled, Stuart.
I was using Autocad (under DOS) when I discovered Design CAD.
Acad went into the bit bucket immediately, and Ive never regretted the choice.

The difference is that DC was designed by draftsmen to primarily do drafting.
Yes, it also does solid rendering, ray tracing, shadows and smoke and mirrors
(V18 on).

As usual, YMMV...


Richard

Pete Keillor wrote:
Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering dumping
windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a new
laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight
and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

Pete Keillor


That's the only reason I've stayed with Windoze - CAD.

On Feb 3, 5:53*am, Pete Keillor wrote:
Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? *I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. *I'm considering dumping
windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. *I'll also need a new
laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight
and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

Pete Keillor

This subject has been on my mind for quite a while.

I use Ubuntu 8.04 and have had some success by installing WINE. This
allows me to use IntelliCAD , from http://www.cadopia.com/ (similar to
AutoCAD).

It doesn't work perfectly but it is a lot better than nothing.

Hope this helps.

Lewis.

*****

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:53:47 -0500, Pete Keillor wrote:

Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said you've
about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering dumping windows
when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics program
anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a new laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight and
r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

Pete Keillor

Pete, I'm running Ubuntu Hardy and found a 2D/3D drafting programme
called Medusa4 PL, quite free for the personal version (watermark beneath
the drawing on the printout stating this)

http://www.cad-schroer.com/index.php...oducts-MEDUSA-
M4Personal&scr=1.1

or:

http://tinyurl.com/clevnv

haven't had it for long, but it seems pretty good for me.
Mike in BC

Well, for relatively simple work, there's xdraft:

http://xdraft.sourceforge.net

Still a work in progress, but I've done some useful work with it.

Still waiting for a Linux version of Sketchup, myself.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:49:48 +0000 (UTC), the infamous
(Edward A. Falk) scrawled the following:

Well, for relatively simple work, there's xdraft:

http://xdraft.sourceforge.net

Still a work in progress, but I've done some useful work with it.

Still waiting for a Linux version of Sketchup, myself.

If I might alliterate, won't Wine work?

--
Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what
to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- George S. Patton

Larry Jaques writes:

On Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:49:48 +0000 (UTC), the infamous
(Edward A. Falk) scrawled the following:

Well, for relatively simple work, there's xdraft:

http://xdraft.sourceforge.net

Still a work in progress, but I've done some useful work with it.

Still waiting for a Linux version of Sketchup, myself.

If I might alliterate, won't Wine work?

I've never gotten wine to work for anything useful... I've only got
about two applications that require me to use Windows, and I can run
one of those in virtualbox.

Pete Keillor wrote:
Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering dumping
windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a new
laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight
and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

I've been dabbling with 2D Qcad (http://www.ribbonsoft.com), and
Flightgear's flight simulator. Just so's you know...

Also beat my bank in a mortgage dispute using Gnumeric. :-)


--

lid wrote:

Pete Keillor wrote:
Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering
dumping windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector
graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a
new laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be
flight and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

I've been dabbling with 2D Qcad (http://www.ribbonsoft.com), and
Flightgear's flight simulator. Just so's you know...

Also beat my bank in a mortgage dispute using Gnumeric. :-)


--

I did some computer work for a took making shop a few years back where
the software they used for the drawings for the prototypes they made
was QCAD. It seemed to meet their needs fine.

On 2009-02-08, wrote:
Pete Keillor wrote:
Iggy, what do you use for cad or parts drawing? I know you said
you've about completely converted to Ubuntu. I'm considering dumping
windows when I retire, and I'll need to replace my vector graphics
program anyway, since it's on the work computer. I'll also need a new
laptop.

The only other reason I might keep a windows machine would be flight
and r/c simulators, and possibly personal finances.

I've been dabbling with 2D Qcad (http://www.ribbonsoft.com), and
Flightgear's flight simulator. Just so's you know...

Also beat my bank in a mortgage dispute using Gnumeric. :-)


I am pleasantly surprised that QCad is a part of Ubuntu. I installed
it from repositories and it seems to work.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On 2009-02-08, Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Sat, 07 Feb 2009
21:15:14 -0600, Ignoramus24392, lid
wrote:

I am pleasantly surprised that QCad is a part of Ubuntu. I installed
it from repositories and it seems to work.

Saying QCad is "part of Ubuntu" is about as accurate
as saying it's part of Windows.

If I can install it by typing "sudo aptitude install qcad", it is a
part of Ubuntu.

i

Ribbonsoft puts it this way:
"QCAD works on Windows, Mac OS X and many Linux and Unix Systems. The
source code of the QCAD community edition is released under the GPL
(Open Source)."


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Steve Ackman wrote:
Saying QCad is "part of Ubuntu" is about as accurate
as saying it's part of Windows.

No, he's right. It is part of Ubuntu, Debian and probably a slew of
others, but it's not part of Windows.

A lot of people don't comprehend what "repository" means, since it is an
alien concept in the world of MS-Windows. Basically, "repository" in this
sense means that it comes with the operating system, instead of being a
third-party add-on (ie, QCad is on the OS installation disks).

Anyway, this place *might* help with actually learning how to use CAD:
http://www.cadtutor.net/tutorials/


--

lid wrote:
Steve Ackman wrote:
Saying QCad is "part of Ubuntu" is about as accurate
as saying it's part of Windows.

No, he's right. It is part of Ubuntu, Debian and probably a slew of
others, but it's not part of Windows.

A lot of people don't comprehend what "repository" means, since it is an
alien concept in the world of MS-Windows. Basically, "repository" in this
sense means that it comes with the operating system, instead of being a
third-party add-on (ie, QCad is on the OS installation disks).

Anyway, this place *might* help with actually learning how to use CAD:
http://www.cadtutor.net/tutorials/



You did emphasize the *might* part.

But that stuff is AutoCAD.

Start him off confused and developing bad habits!

cavelamb wrote:
You did emphasize the *might* part.
But that stuff is AutoCAD.
Start him off confused and developing bad habits!

chuckle I suppose.. Then perhaps the QCad book.
Price seems okay, about $30. The preview looks like the book
is targetted towards newcomers.


--

Steve Ackman wrote:
QCad is not on the Ubuntu installation disk I used,
nor on the Debian installation disk I used, nor on
any of the other several dozen distribution
installation CDs I've used.

It's on the first DVD of the Debian set; the one you install from. There
are something like 5 DVD's / 25 CD's to the set. QCad is in it.

Might be best to go he http://goodbye-windows.com
No DVD's/CD's to fool with, everything is online. Ask for Lenny and tell
him you want QCad.

--

Steve Ackman wrote:
lid, lid wrote:

http://goodbye-windows.com

Will debian.exe run under Wine?

I never had any luck with Wine. I did get a copy of Windows-XP with my
laptop, and not otherwise needing it, installed it to a qemu image. It's
handy for all those .EXE files people write (like Klotz's shop software),
and the occasional oddball IE-specific webpage. XP boots up in a window,
zoom it to full screen.

I use this script (sudo because of the soundcard, omit it):

#!/bin/sh
sudo qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom -soundhw all -net nic \
-net tap -net user -usb -hda ~/XP-img.hd0 $1 $2 $3 $4

--