(Dear Lowes, Inc.)

I filed a complaint with Hinkle Chair Company about their "Garden
Treasures" rocking chairs.

They (and I suspect you have required them to) hide any evidence that
the chairs are made in China. Only a tiny (smaller than 1/2" square)
label in an inconspicuous place on the product, says "Made in China".
Your store personnel remove that label on any chairs they pre-assemble
for customers; it's only there if the customer assembles the product.
That's not fair or honest.

Many American consumers are now avoiding Chinese products when there
are alternatives. DELIBERATELY hiding the origin of products is
immoral, even if it's not illegal.

If you are requiring vendors to disguise the origin of their products,
then please stop.

If vendors are hiding that fact voluntarily, please compel them to
mark the products clearly on the OUTSIDE of the packaging.

I tend to be very vocal about being cheated. Although the chairs are
of acceptable (not good) quality, the 'trick' you and/or Hinkle are
playing on your customers is NOT acceptable; it is dishonest.

Yours truly,
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
(Dear Lowes, Inc.)

I filed a complaint with Hinkle Chair Company about their "Garden
Treasures" rocking chairs.

They (and I suspect you have required them to) hide any evidence that
the chairs are made in China. Only a tiny (smaller than 1/2" square)
label in an inconspicuous place on the product, says "Made in China".
Your store personnel remove that label on any chairs they pre-assemble
for customers; it's only there if the customer assembles the product.
That's not fair or honest.

Many American consumers are now avoiding Chinese products when there
are alternatives. DELIBERATELY hiding the origin of products is
immoral, even if it's not illegal.

If you are requiring vendors to disguise the origin of their products,
then please stop.

If vendors are hiding that fact voluntarily, please compel them to
mark the products clearly on the OUTSIDE of the packaging.

I tend to be very vocal about being cheated. Although the chairs are
of acceptable (not good) quality, the 'trick' you and/or Hinkle are
playing on your customers is NOT acceptable; it is dishonest.

Yours truly,
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

But did you take the chairs back? Did you check the external packaging
for a notice (I'll bet it has to be there). Did you complain to your
local BBB and attorney general?

Not that I don't sympathize -- I'm just making suggestions for bases to
cover.

(and I think it's a good thing that they think they have to hide the tag
-- if they're embarrassed about stuff from China, maybe they'll take a
US supplier seriously the next time).

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott fired this volley in
:

Did you check the external packaging
for a notice (I'll bet it has to be there). Did you complain to your
local BBB and attorney general?


It's not illegal here, yet, so I didn't file a complaint with the gov.
But I checked every square inch of packaging, including under the Lowes
labels -- nothin'.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

and no... My wife has been looking for similar chairs for weeks. If we
had known they were made in China, she'd probably have bought them
anyway, even if it rankles.

The issue was their subterfuge.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

and no... My wife has been looking for similar chairs for weeks. If we
had known they were made in China, she'd probably have bought them
anyway, even if it rankles.

The issue was their subterfuge.

LLoyd

It certainly tells you how much they care about, and respect, you.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Lloyd has WAAY too much time on his hands.
The Default Origin of Manufacture ***(((IS)))*** China on a huge array
of merchandise. The anomaly is 'Made In USA', with attendant 4X price
tag and shoddy union driven design/assembly. Being surprised that
something you bought for what was clearly a cheap price was made
overseas is disingenuous, at least.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
(Dear Lowes, Inc.)

I filed a complaint with Hinkle Chair Company about their "Garden
Treasures" rocking chairs.

They (and I suspect you have required them to) hide any evidence that
the chairs are made in China. Only a tiny (smaller than 1/2" square)
label in an inconspicuous place on the product, says "Made in China".
Your store personnel remove that label on any chairs they pre-assemble
for customers; it's only there if the customer assembles the product.
That's not fair or honest.

Many American consumers are now avoiding Chinese products when there
are alternatives. DELIBERATELY hiding the origin of products is
immoral, even if it's not illegal.

If you are requiring vendors to disguise the origin of their products,
then please stop.

If vendors are hiding that fact voluntarily, please compel them to
mark the products clearly on the OUTSIDE of the packaging.

I tend to be very vocal about being cheated. Although the chairs are
of acceptable (not good) quality, the 'trick' you and/or Hinkle are
playing on your customers is NOT acceptable; it is dishonest.

Yours truly,
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

JR North fired this volley in
:

Being surprised that
something you bought for what was clearly a cheap price was made
overseas is disingenuous, at least.


BS. A) I wasn't surprised, Chinese packaging has a "look" you can't
miss, and B) I wasn't expecting better, but they hid the origin.
Their bad (Lowes or the importers), not mine.

Nothing disingenuous about being upset about being lied to.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
JR North fired this volley in
:

Being surprised that
something you bought for what was clearly a cheap price was made
overseas is disingenuous, at least.


BS. A) I wasn't surprised, Chinese packaging has a "look" you can't
miss, and B) I wasn't expecting better, but they hid the origin.
Their bad (Lowes or the importers), not mine.

Nothing disingenuous about being upset about being lied to.

LLoyd


Look at it this way: When someone lies to you in an obvious way,
there's just a few possible interpretations.

One:

They think you're _really_ stupid. If they think you're that dumb, what
else will they try to pull?

Two:

They are _really_ stupid. So how good is the rest of their stuff?

Three:

They just don't care. So how good is the rest of their stuff?

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

JR North wrote:
Lloyd has WAAY too much time on his hands.
The Default Origin of Manufacture ***(((IS)))*** China on a huge array
of merchandise. The anomaly is 'Made In USA', with attendant 4X price
tag and shoddy union driven design/assembly. Being surprised that
something you bought for what was clearly a cheap price was made
overseas is disingenuous, at least.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

-- snip --


Not everything made in the US comes from union shops. But most likely
anything from anywhere big does (sigh).

I'd have a lot better attitude about unions if _they_ would kick out the
slackers, incompetents and just plain bums in their ranks. Instead
they're proud to have their employer bent over a barrel, and are quite
proud when they protect complete slimeballs from righteous firing.

(The odd thing about my attitude is that I would think it a sad day
indeed if the US outlawed unions, or otherwise made it impossible for
collective bargaining to exist. I just wish the unions would get real
about what they're doing to themselves and their neighbors.)

(And no union controlled elections, please!)

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:
JR North wrote:
Lloyd has WAAY too much time on his hands.
The Default Origin of Manufacture ***(((IS)))*** China on a huge
array of merchandise. The anomaly is 'Made In USA', with attendant 4X
price tag and shoddy union driven design/assembly. Being surprised
that something you bought for what was clearly a cheap price was made
overseas is disingenuous, at least.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

-- snip --


Not everything made in the US comes from union shops. But most likely
anything from anywhere big does (sigh).

I'd have a lot better attitude about unions if _they_ would kick out the
slackers, incompetents and just plain bums in their ranks. Instead
they're proud to have their employer bent over a barrel, and are quite
proud when they protect complete slimeballs from righteous firing.

(The odd thing about my attitude is that I would think it a sad day
indeed if the US outlawed unions, or otherwise made it impossible for
collective bargaining to exist. I just wish the unions would get real
about what they're doing to themselves and their neighbors.)

(And no union controlled elections, please!)


Tim,
You would have a much different attitude about unions & corporate
America if you experienced first hand what goes on inside said
relationships. I was a sponsored EE student at GMI by GM's Truck & Bus
Group in Pontiac, MI. in 1982. All students went to a weekly meeting
with the Plant 2 Superintendent to discuss plant operations. Many of my
relatives are/ have been employed by GM. No doubt there are many loser
employees that most outsiders would believe are "protected" by the
union. I've had this impression up until then based on discussions with
many people.
Let me enlighten you a little. I would not believe this if I hadn't have
asked it myself. I asked this Superintendent about these loser
employees, drunks, drugees, etc. "Why don't you fire these people when
you have the overwhelming evidence of their uselessness." "I know many
hard working people that would jump at a chance to work at an auto plant."
I'll paraphrase - He explained to me with a tone that kinda made me
think he was trying to see a degree of disbelief on my face - "We use
these people as a bargaining chip with the union." "When we get a large
amount of grievances written up by the union for genuine issues that are
expensive to correct, we have the union deem some issues "impractical".
This allows a win/win situation - union gets a member back and less
paperwork to process while GM saves big money!
I did ask if he was serious. He said "Sure, GM is in business to make
money, not friends."
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of unions but I wish more people
could see the reality of the auto companies.

I try to avoid buying Chinese just because i would rather spend more and
support Americans, or any others known for quality goods. Czechs and Poles
make some decent tooling. Chinese tools have proven themselves to me to be
crap.

I just turned 50 and my wife signed me up for AARP. She says we will save
money on insurance. I told her I didn't appreciate that as I haven't
researched them to find out who they are and what they do. She doesn't
understand my anti-chinese preference either. She says she doesn't care who
they are if we save money.
I asked her, "if we could save $100 per month by buying stuff from the Nazi
party, would you?". She saw the light.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

syoung wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
JR North wrote:
Lloyd has WAAY too much time on his hands.
The Default Origin of Manufacture ***(((IS)))*** China on a huge
array of merchandise. The anomaly is 'Made In USA', with attendant 4X
price tag and shoddy union driven design/assembly. Being surprised
that something you bought for what was clearly a cheap price was made
overseas is disingenuous, at least.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

-- snip --


Not everything made in the US comes from union shops. But most likely
anything from anywhere big does (sigh).

I'd have a lot better attitude about unions if _they_ would kick out
the slackers, incompetents and just plain bums in their ranks.
Instead they're proud to have their employer bent over a barrel, and
are quite proud when they protect complete slimeballs from righteous
firing.

(The odd thing about my attitude is that I would think it a sad day
indeed if the US outlawed unions, or otherwise made it impossible for
collective bargaining to exist. I just wish the unions would get real
about what they're doing to themselves and their neighbors.)

(And no union controlled elections, please!)


Tim,
You would have a much different attitude about unions & corporate
America if you experienced first hand what goes on inside said
relationships. I was a sponsored EE student at GMI by GM's Truck & Bus
Group in Pontiac, MI. in 1982. All students went to a weekly meeting
with the Plant 2 Superintendent to discuss plant operations. Many of my
relatives are/ have been employed by GM. No doubt there are many loser
employees that most outsiders would believe are "protected" by the
union. I've had this impression up until then based on discussions with
many people.
Let me enlighten you a little. I would not believe this if I hadn't have
asked it myself. I asked this Superintendent about these loser
employees, drunks, drugees, etc. "Why don't you fire these people when
you have the overwhelming evidence of their uselessness." "I know many
hard working people that would jump at a chance to work at an auto plant."
I'll paraphrase - He explained to me with a tone that kinda made me
think he was trying to see a degree of disbelief on my face - "We use
these people as a bargaining chip with the union." "When we get a large
amount of grievances written up by the union for genuine issues that are
expensive to correct, we have the union deem some issues "impractical".
This allows a win/win situation - union gets a member back and less
paperwork to process while GM saves big money!
I did ask if he was serious. He said "Sure, GM is in business to make
money, not friends."
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of unions but I wish more people
could see the reality of the auto companies.

That doesn't change my attitude at all. People are selfish and greedy.
Corporations and unions both are made up of people. The legal
requirements for corporate governance (in the US at least) practically
read like the diagnostic criteria for sociopathy.

All your above story does is point up the fact that GM and the UAW
together are ****ing away the strength of my country so that they can
pretend that they have big gonads. That's not helping anyone, that's
just crazy.

What yanks my chain is when the unions descend on some small business
using their "every boss thinks like a GM boss" attitude, and screw up
everything.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
(Dear Lowes, Inc.)

I filed a complaint with Hinkle Chair Company about their "Garden
Treasures" rocking chairs.

They (and I suspect you have required them to) hide any evidence that
the chairs are made in China. Only a tiny (smaller than 1/2" square)
label in an inconspicuous place on the product, says "Made in China".
Your store personnel remove that label on any chairs they pre-assemble
for customers; it's only there if the customer assembles the product.
That's not fair or honest.

Many American consumers are now avoiding Chinese products when there
are alternatives. DELIBERATELY hiding the origin of products is
immoral, even if it's not illegal.

If you are requiring vendors to disguise the origin of their products,
then please stop.

If vendors are hiding that fact voluntarily, please compel them to
mark the products clearly on the OUTSIDE of the packaging.

I tend to be very vocal about being cheated. Although the chairs are
of acceptable (not good) quality, the 'trick' you and/or Hinkle are
playing on your customers is NOT acceptable; it is dishonest.

Yours truly,
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

From my experience, if it's "Made in America", they'll mark it as such.
If it's not marked, I assume it to be an import.
Now, even if it's marked "Made in America", it may still have been assembled
elsewhere.

--
-Smitty