I think that it is enough to blame Republicans for what they really
are, such as for being warmongers, hypocrites, anti-women,
overspending etc.

However, failure of AIG or Lehman brothers cannot be blamed on
Republicans so directly.

Some points to note:

1) Business failures are not always bad
2) Stockmarket being cheap is not always bad
3) AIG was never prevented from writing stupid insurance policies, by
any regulations. So deregulation cannot be blamed.
4) Lehman brothers was never prevented from entering into stupid
trades, and accepting too much risk, by any regulations. So
deregulations cannot be blamed.
5) The "Government Sponsored Enterprises", an abomination for the
concept of free markets, were cheered by all parties due to political
expediency.
6) The wealth of the nation is derived from future goods and services
produced, minus any debt payments that we owe. Several obvious
conclusions stem from this, such as
* We are not poorer just because some financial assets are cheaper
* We are not richer just bacsue the government "reduces taxes" but
increases deficits.
7) The events of late underscore just how terrible was the Republican
idea of investing public money, or forced investment of private money,
into securities. That would only magnify the eventual disaster tenfold.

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On Sep 15, 3:27*pm, Ignoramus1348
wrote:
I think that it is enough to blame Republicans for what they really
are, such as for being warmongers, hypocrites, anti-women,
overspending etc.

However, failure of AIG or Lehman brothers cannot be blamed on
Republicans so directly.

Some points to note:

1) Business failures are not always bad
2) Stockmarket being cheap is not always bad
3) AIG was never prevented from writing stupid insurance policies, by
any regulations. So deregulation cannot be blamed.
4) Lehman brothers was never prevented from entering into stupid
trades, and accepting too much risk, by any regulations. So
deregulations cannot be blamed.
5) The "Government Sponsored Enterprises", an abomination for the
concept of free markets, were cheered by all parties due to political
expediency.
6) The wealth of the nation is derived from future goods and services
produced, minus any debt payments that we owe. Several obvious
conclusions stem from this, such as
* * We are not poorer just because some financial assets are cheaper
* * We are not richer just bacsue the government "reduces taxes" but
* * increases deficits.
7) The events of late underscore just how terrible was the Republican
idea of investing public money, or forced investment of private money,
into securities. That would only magnify the eventual disaster tenfold.

--
* *Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
* * * to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
* * * *from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
* * * * *more readers you will need to find a different means of
* * * * * * * * * * * *posting on Usenet.
* * * * * * * * * *http://improve-usenet.org/

So, can I assume you always pay cash for your real estate purchases?
Did you ever buy a home and need FHA insurance to make the deal? If
you have ever had a mortgage on any real estate, then you are part of
the problem!!!

Also just my thoughts.

Paul

On 2008-09-16, wrote:
So, can I assume you always pay cash for your real estate purchases?
Did you ever buy a home and need FHA insurance to make the deal? If
you have ever had a mortgage on any real estate, then you are part of
the problem!!!

Mortgages were obtained before GSEs, and will be available after them,
on a private basis. They may become more expensive and/or harder to
get. As we are discovering now, there is a good reason for that.

I still have a 15 year mortgage. Our payments are about 9-10% of our
total income. I do not think that I ever needed FHA insurance, but a
long time ago I had to buy PMI.

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On Sep 15, 5:18*pm, Ignoramus1348
wrote:
On 2008-09-16, wrote:

So, can I assume you always pay cash for your real estate purchases?
Did you ever buy a home and need FHA insurance to make the deal? If
you have ever had a mortgage on any real estate, then you are part of
the problem!!!

Mortgages were obtained before GSEs, and will be available after them,
on a private basis. They may become more expensive and/or harder to
get. As we are discovering now, there is a good reason for that.

I still have a 15 year mortgage. Our payments are about 9-10% of our
total income. I do not think that I ever needed FHA insurance, but a
long time ago I had to buy PMI.

--
* *Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
* * * to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
* * * *from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
* * * * *more readers you will need to find a different means of
* * * * * * * * * * * *posting on Usenet.
* * * * * * * * * *http://improve-usenet.org/

Fair enough, but who holds your mortgage, now? Bet a GSE held it for a
while, somewhere in it's past history, then packaged it with other
similar mortgages and sold them to someone else, like an insurance
company, or retirement fund.

Paul

On 2008-09-16, wrote:
On Sep 15, 5:18*pm, Ignoramus1348
wrote:
On 2008-09-16, wrote:

So, can I assume you always pay cash for your real estate purchases?
Did you ever buy a home and need FHA insurance to make the deal? If
you have ever had a mortgage on any real estate, then you are part of
the problem!!!

Mortgages were obtained before GSEs, and will be available after them,
on a private basis. They may become more expensive and/or harder to
get. As we are discovering now, there is a good reason for that.

I still have a 15 year mortgage. Our payments are about 9-10% of our
total income. I do not think that I ever needed FHA insurance, but a
long time ago I had to buy PMI.


Fair enough, but who holds your mortgage, now? Bet a GSE held it for a
while, somewhere in it's past history, then packaged it with other
similar mortgages and sold them to someone else, like an insurance
company, or retirement fund.

That's probbaly what happened, but mortgages would originate even
without GSEs.

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to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
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That's probbaly what happened, but mortgages would originate even
without GSEs.

Yes, but nowhere near the number. The two big GSE's allowed the
banking system to accept and dispose of many, many times the number of
real estate mortgages that were being accepted.

They also codified the way mortgages contracts were being written and
handled by the banks. My very first trip on a commercial airline was
from Portland to LA to attend a conference for mortgage data
processors put on by FNMA. That was where they defined the record
formats and contents they would accept when mortgages were sold to
them. I was working for a large computer service bureau at the time.
There were bankers (mortgage sellers) and insurance company reps
(buyers of mortgages) ans well as reps from pension funds (mortgage
buyers). I was there as a rep of a mortgage payment processing
organization. The meeting was a real education on the mortgage loan
industry.

The result was every mortgage related computer system in the country
was programmed or converted to use the new formats. Rather than write
one, we bought a package written by IBM.

Paul

On 2008-09-16, wrote:

That's probbaly what happened, but mortgages would originate even
without GSEs.

Yes, but nowhere near the number. The two big GSE's allowed the
banking system to accept and dispose of many, many times the number
of real estate mortgages that were being accepted.

As it turned out, they tried to give mortgages so hard, that lenders are
going bankrupt one after another due to defaults.

They also codified the way mortgages contracts were being written and
handled by the banks. My very first trip on a commercial airline was
from Portland to LA to attend a conference for mortgage data
processors put on by FNMA. That was where they defined the record
formats and contents they would accept when mortgages were sold to
them. I was working for a large computer service bureau at the time.
There were bankers (mortgage sellers) and insurance company reps
(buyers of mortgages) ans well as reps from pension funds (mortgage
buyers). I was there as a rep of a mortgage payment processing
organization. The meeting was a real education on the mortgage loan
industry.

The result was every mortgage related computer system in the country
was programmed or converted to use the new formats. Rather than write
one, we bought a package written by IBM.

Very nice.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:27:23 -0500, Ignoramus1348
wrote:

I think that it is enough to blame Republicans for what they really
are, such as for being warmongers, hypocrites, anti-women,
overspending etc.

Odd..you just described Democrats.

However, failure of AIG or Lehman brothers cannot be blamed on
Republicans so directly.

Some points to note:

1) Business failures are not always bad
2) Stockmarket being cheap is not always bad
3) AIG was never prevented from writing stupid insurance policies, by
any regulations. So deregulation cannot be blamed.
4) Lehman brothers was never prevented from entering into stupid
trades, and accepting too much risk, by any regulations. So
deregulations cannot be blamed.
5) The "Government Sponsored Enterprises", an abomination for the
concept of free markets, were cheered by all parties due to political
expediency.
6) The wealth of the nation is derived from future goods and services
produced, minus any debt payments that we owe. Several obvious
conclusions stem from this, such as
* We are not poorer just because some financial assets are cheaper
* We are not richer just bacsue the government "reduces taxes" but
increases deficits.
7) The events of late underscore just how terrible was the Republican
idea of investing public money, or forced investment of private money,
into securities. That would only magnify the eventual disaster tenfold.

Republican idea of investing public money????

Iggy...you are new to the US arent you?

Gunner


"Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises babies
and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich