After reading all the messages about refrigeration aboard boats and
seeing the level of expertise, I thought I would see what people
recommend for books on air conditioning and heat pumps.
I would like to learn more especially with regard to a house and using
the earth as a thermal source and sink. The current situation is a
house with a propane furnace and central air with the usual fan
blowing air over the condenser. The lot is big enough to use the
earth as a thermal sink. I am also wondering about changing to a heat
pump when the current air conditioner has problems.

I will also post a message in alt.hvac noting that I have built a
fence and repaired a faucet and therefore am qualified to take on such
a project.


Dan

wrote:
After reading all the messages about refrigeration aboard boats and
seeing the level of expertise, I thought I would see what people
recommend for books on air conditioning and heat pumps.
I would like to learn more especially with regard to a house and using
the earth as a thermal source and sink. The current situation is a
house with a propane furnace and central air with the usual fan
blowing air over the condenser. The lot is big enough to use the
earth as a thermal sink. I am also wondering about changing to a heat
pump when the current air conditioner has problems.

My next unit will be a geothermal heat pump.
I have known people with them that have cut their energy bills by over
50% in the hot summer.

For a conventional A/C or heat pump, home or car, take a look at a
product called ICE-32. It works, immediately lowering A/C temps or
raising wintertime heat pump vent outlet temp.
It's basically a lubricant. It also quiets noisy compressors and
purports to lengthen their service life.
I've used it on two houses and all our cars. It works.

We don't sell it where I work, but we used to.

" wrote:

I will also post a message in alt.hvac noting that I have built a
fence and repaired a faucet and therefore am qualified to take on such
a project.

Oh boy, hope you keep the threads separate. That is a mean crowd of people on alt.hvac
that seem to think they are entitled to the contents of your wallet for knowing very
little.

Just out of curiousity, what kind of climate do you have?

Wes

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:49:02 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:



I will also post a message in alt.hvac noting that I have built a
fence and repaired a faucet and therefore am qualified to take on such
a project.


Dan


You bitch! :-)

Mark Rand
RTFM

On Aug 26, 3:18 pm, Wes wrote:


Just out of curiousity, what kind of climate do you have?

Wes

On alt.hvac not too great.

Where this house is, there are about 3000 heating and 3000 cooling
degree days assuming a 55 degree balance point. So pretty moderate
climate.

Dan

+"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...


I ran into a bunch of those losers on news:alt.dodge.trucks a few
years ago. What they are afraid of is that if people ever found out
they could do 99% of the work themselves, at least half the HVAC
installers would be out of work.



The problem with your numbers is a good portion of the people out there
can't screw in a light bulb without instructions,but yet you think they
should run wire, braze line sets, and run ductwork? 3/4th's of installing
HVAC equipment is simply monkey work. The other 1/4 of the job is where many
people screw up, including many people in the trade. Sizing equipment,
sizing dust, properly evacuating a line set before charging, mechanical
codes, building codes... I can go on.

You may be able to do this job properly, but how many people can? I know
guys in the trade that can not do it right!!

Same goes with other home repairs, or automobile repair. What you or I may
find simple, and a mind numbing repair, the next guy may not have a clue
where to start. Also the great majority of people can not do air
conditioning work themselves, it is against Federal EPA laws. If you want to
go through the testing required, go for it. not worth it in my mind to
install one system.
I have been on service calls where people have tried to repair their own
furnaces, then called us to do it right. When I get there I wonder why the
house has not burned down, or why the family has not died from carbon
monoxide poisoning..
Greg

On Aug 26, 8:28 pm, "Greg O" wrote:

The problem with your numbers is a good portion of the people out there
can't screw in a light bulb without instructions,but yet you think they
should run wire, braze line sets, and run ductwork? 3/4th's of installing
HVAC equipment is simply monkey work. The other 1/4 of the job is where many
people screw up, including many people in the trade. Sizing equipment,
sizing dust, properly evacuating a line set before charging, mechanical
codes, building codes... I can go on.

You may be able to do this job properly, but how many people can? I know
guys in the trade that can not do it right!!

Same goes with other home repairs, or automobile repair. What you or I may
find simple, and a mind numbing repair, the next guy may not have a clue
where to start. Also the great majority of people can not do air
conditioning work themselves, it is against Federal EPA laws. If you want to
go through the testing required, go for it. not worth it in my mind to
install one system.
I have been on service calls where people have tried to repair their own
furnaces, then called us to do it right. When I get there I wonder why the
house has not burned down, or why the family has not died from carbon
monoxide poisoning..
Greg

You are right. Lots of people can not do the job properly. And I
really don't want to do the work as much as figure out what I want
done and whether it is worth doing. I also want to be able to figure
out if someone is competent. I am not sure that passing the EPA test
means you are qualified to design a system, but it might mean you are
qualified to do the installation. It does mean that you are willing
to study, but maybe only the minimum to get licensed.

So far no help from alt.hvac and all I asked for was recommendations
on books.

Dan

On Aug 26, 7:49*am, " wrote:
After reading all the messages about refrigeration aboard boats and
seeing the level of expertise, I thought I would see what people
recommend for books on air conditioning and heat pumps.
I would like to learn more especially with regard to a house and using
the earth as a thermal source and sink. *The current situation is a
house with a propane furnace and central air with the usual fan
blowing air over the condenser. * The lot is big enough to use the
earth as a thermal sink. *I am also wondering about changing to a heat
pump when the current air conditioner has problems.

I will also post a message in alt.hvac noting that I have *built a
fence and repaired a faucet and therefore am qualified to take on such
a project.

Dan

I watched a Dirty Jobs where they were using wells instead of a field.
Dropped a loop of plastic pipe down the bore hole and filled it with
grout. Looked way easier than digging a bunch of trench lines .
Karl

Greg O wrote:

+"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...


I ran into a bunch of those losers on news:alt.dodge.trucks a few
years ago. What they are afraid of is that if people ever found out
they could do 99% of the work themselves, at least half the HVAC
installers would be out of work.



The problem with your numbers is a good portion of the people out there
can't screw in a light bulb without instructions,but yet you think they
should run wire, braze line sets, and run ductwork? 3/4th's of installing
HVAC equipment is simply monkey work. The other 1/4 of the job is where many
people screw up, including many people in the trade. Sizing equipment,
sizing dust, properly evacuating a line set before charging, mechanical
codes, building codes... I can go on.


Please do. I didn't say that everyone could. The characters I had
to deal with perceived that scenario. There are people who can't do a
damn thing but invest. OTOH, there are people in the trades who can't
do a damn thing right. I've seen too many of them on job sites. The
lower the grade of their work, the more they worry about a homeowner
trying to do his own work.

I had an air conditioning problem in a TV station's control room. It
had given them fits for the two years they had been in their new
building. The contractor was there about once a month with another lame
idea when I was hired. They finally brought some 'experts' from the A/C
manufacturer and still couldn't understand why the 10 ton AC system
barely kicked on, but the equipment was overheating and failing. The air
temperature was 55 degrees inside the tiny equipment room, but the
idiots had all the vents at the ceiling, above the racks. They had never
heard of stratification. When I told them the cold air supply had to be
at the floor level I was called an idiot, and worse. I mentioned
computer rooms with all the A/C supplied under the raised floor and was
told, No one wastes their time doing that crap anymore! I told them to
prove me wrong, so they finally dropped a piece of flex from air supply
the ceiling, between the cabling and to about 6" above the floor.
Within five minutes, the equipment was cold to the touch.


IOW, not all 'professionals', are. It is the same in any profession.


You may be able to do this job properly, but how many people can? I know
guys in the trade that can not do it right!!

Same goes with other home repairs, or automobile repair. What you or I may
find simple, and a mind numbing repair, the next guy may not have a clue
where to start. Also the great majority of people can not do air
conditioning work themselves, it is against Federal EPA laws. If you want to
go through the testing required, go for it. not worth it in my mind to
install one system.
I have been on service calls where people have tried to repair their own
furnaces, then called us to do it right. When I get there I wonder why the
house has not burned down, or why the family has not died from carbon
monoxide poisoning..
Greg


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The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On Aug 27, 3:12 am, " wrote:

I watched a Dirty Jobs where they were using wells instead of a field.
Dropped a loop of plastic pipe down the bore hole and filled it with
grout. Looked way easier than digging a bunch of trench lines .
Karl

Lots of different ways to do it. That is why I want to learn more.
The best website that I have found is http://www.geo4va.vt.edu/indexGeo4VA.htm.
Not enough data to design a system, but enough that I understand how
much I do not know.

Dan

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

I had an air conditioning problem in a TV station's control room. It
had given them fits for the two years they had been in their new
building. The contractor was there about once a month with another lame
idea when I was hired. They finally brought some 'experts' from the A/C
manufacturer and still couldn't understand why the 10 ton AC system
barely kicked on, but the equipment was overheating and failing. The air
temperature was 55 degrees inside the tiny equipment room, but the
idiots had all the vents at the ceiling, above the racks. They had never
heard of stratification. When I told them the cold air supply had to be
at the floor level I was called an idiot, and worse. I mentioned
computer rooms with all the A/C supplied under the raised floor and was
told, No one wastes their time doing that crap anymore! I told them to
prove me wrong, so they finally dropped a piece of flex from air supply
the ceiling, between the cabling and to about 6" above the floor.
Within five minutes, the equipment was cold to the touch.


IOW, not all 'professionals', are. It is the same in any profession.

That piece of paper that says AAS, BS, BA, MA, MS, PHD, JD is just a statement that
someone met minimum standards from a school with varying standards compared to other
schools and leaves out mention that daddy or mommy is an alumni that has a big check book.

As far as trades, two things must be gathered. Documented time in the profession and
passing a state license examination. Sounds like your state has an easy test.


Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

I had an air conditioning problem in a TV station's control room. It
had given them fits for the two years they had been in their new
building. The contractor was there about once a month with another lame
idea when I was hired. They finally brought some 'experts' from the A/C
manufacturer and still couldn't understand why the 10 ton AC system
barely kicked on, but the equipment was overheating and failing. The air
temperature was 55 degrees inside the tiny equipment room, but the
idiots had all the vents at the ceiling, above the racks. They had never
heard of stratification. When I told them the cold air supply had to be
at the floor level I was called an idiot, and worse. I mentioned
computer rooms with all the A/C supplied under the raised floor and was
told, No one wastes their time doing that crap anymore! I told them to
prove me wrong, so they finally dropped a piece of flex from air supply
the ceiling, between the cabling and to about 6" above the floor.
Within five minutes, the equipment was cold to the touch.


IOW, not all 'professionals', are. It is the same in any profession.

That piece of paper that says AAS, BS, BA, MA, MS, PHD, JD is just a statement that
someone met minimum standards from a school with varying standards compared to other
schools and leaves out mention that daddy or mommy is an alumni that has a big check book.

As far as trades, two things must be gathered. Documented time in the profession and
passing a state license examination. Sounds like your state has an easy test.


And lots of con men. They like the warm climate, and the fact that
no matter what you do, they can't take your home to pay your debts.
that is, other than property taxes. that is while well known corporate
criminals buy a multi million dollar home in Florida, before they are
convicted.


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http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.