dan wrote:
What's that Lassie? You say that Brian Lawson fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:05:18 -0400:

Can anyone suggest a "for sure it's permanent" way to "glue" 1/8"
thick stainless steel maple-leaf solid profile about 6" X 6"
vertically to tombstones of granite or stone.

Use GE silicone II caulk. Sticks real good and is flexible.

Dan H.

If you want it to be permanent, use epoxy. Silicones may "stick" but they
can be removed - by force .You have to burn epoxies before they will fail,
and upto that point they have a shear strength of 15tons per square inch!.

Daved (UK)

"Davebt" wrote in message
...
dan wrote:
What's that Lassie? You say that Brian Lawson fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:05:18 -0400:

Can anyone suggest a "for sure it's permanent" way to "glue" 1/8"
thick stainless steel maple-leaf solid profile about 6" X 6"
vertically to tombstones of granite or stone.

Use GE silicone II caulk. Sticks real good and is flexible.

Dan H.

If you want it to be permanent, use epoxy. Silicones may "stick" but they
can be removed - by force .You have to burn epoxies before they will
fail, and upto that point they have a shear strength of 15tons per square
inch!.

Daved (UK)

I have to disagree with both of those. Room-temperature-cure epoxies, which
are mostly amine-cured, don't have that much strength and aren't that
permanent. Maximum strength runs around 5,000 psi and they're very
vulnerable to ultraviolet light, which pipes in from the edges and will
degrade the epoxy in just a couple of years if it isn't protected. I'm sure
the strength is far more than required, however, but I don't know what it
would look like after 20 or 30 years of exposure to the elements.

Room-temperature-vulcanizing silicones aren't what I'd consider permanent,
either.

The high-strength epoxies are the A-B cure types, which require stepped,
elevated temperatures (around 250 deg. F for the B-cure). And they still
have to be protected from ultraviolet. High-strength, long-lived silicones
also are industrial types that have a different curing mechanism from the
RTV types, and they also require elevated temperatures.

I don't know what to recommend for a permanent bond. Also, keep in mind that
stainless requires scratch-in techniques to get a strong bond. The
protective chromium oxide layer, which is weak, starts forming in less than
five seconds of exposure to air at room temperature.

There are ceramic bonds that may be permanent. One is Portland cement. g
But I think this requires a bit more research.

--
Ed Huntress

"Davebt" wrote in message
...
dan wrote:
What's that Lassie? You say that Brian Lawson fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:05:18 -0400:

Can anyone suggest a "for sure it's permanent" way to "glue" 1/8"
thick stainless steel maple-leaf solid profile about 6" X 6"
vertically to tombstones of granite or stone.

Use GE silicone II caulk. Sticks real good and is flexible.

Dan H.

If you want it to be permanent, use epoxy. Silicones may "stick" but they
can be removed - by force .You have to burn epoxies before they will
fail, and upto that point they have a shear strength of 15tons per square
inch!.

I have done fairly extensive tests about a year ago on sticking metal to
stone and stone to stone. Epoxy (West system and JB Weld) came out on top
with one proviso: The structures seem to lose their integrity on hot days
when left outside. I had some extensive correspondence about this with West
people but in the end I suspect that the stones get simply hot enough for
the adhesion to weaken. Thus for the use outside I still have my doubts
about epoxy.

The next best adhesive was LePage polyurethane construction glue (*not*
Gorilla or Sumo - they were useless!). The problem with that was that it was
messy, very viscous and as such difficult to apply to the bonding surfaces.
However, once one managed that it held really well.

Getting the right viscosity when working with stones, particularly
decorative ones, is crucial. Much work has been spoiled by the epoxy running
into places where you don't want it. This can happen quite late in the
process, when the pieces have been clamped for some time. The West system
has a bunch of fillers which allow you to control the viscosity pretty
accurately.

Apart from those two I have not had much success with any other adhesives.
FWIW I found silicone far from permanent.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Can anyone suggest a "for sure it's permanent" way to "glue" 1/8"
thick stainless steel maple-leaf solid profile about 6" X 6"
vertically to tombstones of granite or stone.

Rotohammer a hole. Stick some metal in the hole with epoxy or liquid sulfur or
however you like. Weld your piece to the metal using electrodes made for welding
dissimilar metals.

Grant

"Ed Huntress" wrote: (clip) they're very
vulnerable to ultraviolet light, which pipes in from the edges and will
degrade the epoxy in just a couple of years if it isn't protected.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Would it help to add a small amount of lampblack to the mix?

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote: (clip) they're very
vulnerable to ultraviolet light, which pipes in from the edges and will
degrade the epoxy in just a couple of years if it isn't protected.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Would it help to add a small amount of lampblack to the mix?

Yes, opaque pigments are the usual treatment for epoxy that's exposed
outdoors. Then coat it, with a really effective paint. Polyurethanes have
become popular for this; there are a limited number of conventional paints
that stick well to epoxy. Suppliers of boatbuilding supplies sell compatible
paints for the job.

Uncoated, even when pigmented, the life of epoxy is finite when it's exposed
to sunlight every day.

--
Ed Huntress

Wouldn't four stainless steel screws placed one in each corner do the
job?
Would look just fine if done well.
Dan

Davebt wrote:
dan wrote:
What's that Lassie? You say that Brian Lawson fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:05:18 -0400:

Can anyone suggest a "for sure it's permanent" way to "glue" 1/8"
thick stainless steel maple-leaf solid profile about 6" X 6"
vertically to tombstones of granite or stone.
Use GE silicone II caulk. Sticks real good and is flexible.

Dan H.

If you want it to be permanent, use epoxy. Silicones may "stick" but they
can be removed - by force .You have to burn epoxies before they will fail,
and upto that point they have a shear strength of 15tons per square inch!.

Daved (UK)



The problem is that granite (and any stone) is a porous item. Moisture
can get behind ANY material that bonds on the surface only. I have
repaired a LOT of headstones, old marble and plain stone as well as
granite and sandstone. Have yet to find any glue that will hold for a
long time.
If the stone is in good shape and you plan on the repair or adornment
to last the only real way is to bore a hole in the stone and use a lead
or bronze anchor in the hole. Use some silicone mixed with the dust from
the holes around it to help with the different expansion rates, and hide
the anchors. Then use GOOD stainless screws.


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...

"Davebt" wrote in message
...
dan wrote:
What's that Lassie? You say that Brian Lawson fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:05:18 -0400:

Can anyone suggest a "for sure it's permanent" way to "glue" 1/8"
thick stainless steel maple-leaf solid profile about 6" X 6"
vertically to tombstones of granite or stone.

Use GE silicone II caulk. Sticks real good and is flexible.

Dan H.

If you want it to be permanent, use epoxy. Silicones may "stick" but they
can be removed - by force .You have to burn epoxies before they will
fail, and upto that point they have a shear strength of 15tons per square
inch!.

I have done fairly extensive tests about a year ago on sticking metal to
stone and stone to stone. Epoxy (West system and JB Weld) came out on top
with one proviso: The structures seem to lose their integrity on hot days
when left outside. I had some extensive correspondence about this with
West people but in the end I suspect that the stones get simply hot enough
for the adhesion to weaken. Thus for the use outside I still have my
doubts about epoxy.

The next best adhesive was LePage polyurethane construction glue (*not*
Gorilla or Sumo - they were useless!). The problem with that was that it
was messy, very viscous and as such difficult to apply to the bonding
surfaces. However, once one managed that it held really well.

Getting the right viscosity when working with stones, particularly
decorative ones, is crucial. Much work has been spoiled by the epoxy
running into places where you don't want it. This can happen quite late in
the process, when the pieces have been clamped for some time. The West
system has a bunch of fillers which allow you to control the viscosity
pretty accurately.

Apart from those two I have not had much success with any other adhesives.
FWIW I found silicone far from permanent.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC


Hot day = failure?

Perhaps you could investigate the different coefficient of expansion for the
3 materials:
Stone
Adhesive
Metal

Where the joint breaks may be a big clue.

I have exhausted my knowlwdge in this post.

Good luck

Mark




----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

If I was in the OP's shoes, I would try to call 3M and ask if 3M 5200,
or 3M 4200, would be appropriate to stick stainless to granite. Based
on my past boating experience, 3M 5200 is like a gift from God and it
sticks things together in a indestructable fashion. 5200 and 4200 both
are flexible materials and do not crack due to weather, etc.

i

I agree, what are the specs on hot or sun heated slabs of glass like surfaces ?

Will it drip or sag ?

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Ignoramus2176 wrote:
If I was in the OP's shoes, I would try to call 3M and ask if 3M 5200,
or 3M 4200, would be appropriate to stick stainless to granite. Based
on my past boating experience, 3M 5200 is like a gift from God and it
sticks things together in a indestructable fashion. 5200 and 4200 both
are flexible materials and do not crack due to weather, etc.

i


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

On 2008-09-03, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I agree, what are the specs on hot or sun heated slabs of glass like surfaces ?

Will it drip or sag ?

Martin, spend $10 and play with 5200, you will be truly amazed. No, it
does not sag. Yes, it is very hard to wash off the hands. (takes days
to go away).

http://www3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/...er/output_html

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawe...6EVs6E666666--

Stress caused by shock, vibration, swelling or shrinking is
effectively absorbed. Check the bonding and sealing jobs this product
can handle for you: fiberglass deck to fiberglass hull, wood to
fiberglass, portholes and deck fittings, motors on fiberglass
transoms, under mouldings, hull seams above and below water
line. Center board trunk joints. Between struts and planking. Stern
joints. Deck housing, etc. Easy to apply with manual caulking
gun. Remains workable with trowel or spatula up to four hours after
application. Won't sag or flow in vertical or horizontal seams.


Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Ignoramus2176 wrote:
If I was in the OP's shoes, I would try to call 3M and ask if 3M 5200,
or 3M 4200, would be appropriate to stick stainless to granite. Based
on my past boating experience, 3M 5200 is like a gift from God and it
sticks things together in a indestructable fashion. 5200 and 4200 both
are flexible materials and do not crack due to weather, etc.

i


http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:17:38 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus2176 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-03, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I agree, what are the specs on hot or sun heated slabs of glass like surfaces ?

Will it drip or sag ?

Martin, spend $10 and play with 5200, you will be truly amazed. No, it
does not sag. Yes, it is very hard to wash off the hands. (takes days
to go away).

I wonder if one of the barrier creams would protect it from sticking
to the hands. I have a spray foam lotion which I might test the next
time I get into gluey situations.

I'm sold on the similar goo from Eclectic Products: Shoe Goo, Goop
Plumbing, and Goop Household, which I often find for $1-3 a tube.
But I'm really chea^H^H^H^Hfrugal.


http://www3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/...er/output_html

Ah, handy brochure! I snagged a reference copy.

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides

Ignoramus2176 writes:

Yes, it is very hard to wash off the hands. (takes days
to go away).

Mineral spirits on a rag gets it off your hands quite well, if you keep up
with it while you're working.

Part of the deal with 5200 is that it is so loaded with microfine white
pigment, it's worse than paint for showing anywhere it strays.

On 2008-09-03, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:17:38 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus2176 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-03, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I agree, what are the specs on hot or sun heated slabs of glass like surfaces ?

Will it drip or sag ?

Martin, spend $10 and play with 5200, you will be truly amazed. No, it
does not sag. Yes, it is very hard to wash off the hands. (takes days
to go away).

I wonder if one of the barrier creams would protect it from sticking
to the hands.

Gloves are known to help also.

I have a spray foam lotion which I might test the next
time I get into gluey situations.

I'm sold on the similar goo from Eclectic Products: Shoe Goo, Goop
Plumbing, and Goop Household, which I often find for $1-3 a tube.
But I'm really chea^H^H^H^Hfrugal.

I do not think that they are the same.

i


http://www3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/...er/output_html

Ah, handy brochure! I snagged a reference copy.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:04:41 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus27629 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-03, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:17:38 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus2176 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-03, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I agree, what are the specs on hot or sun heated slabs of glass like surfaces ?

Will it drip or sag ?

Martin, spend $10 and play with 5200, you will be truly amazed. No, it
does not sag. Yes, it is very hard to wash off the hands. (takes days
to go away).

I wonder if one of the barrier creams would protect it from sticking
to the hands.

Gloves are known to help also.

True, and I own six-packs of about ten of HF's finest, along with many
boxes of poly, latex, and nitriles from the same source. BUT, I often
need the best dexterity when gluing and gloves don't always support
that. Capice?


I have a spray foam lotion which I might test the next
time I get into gluey situations.

I'm sold on the similar goo from Eclectic Products: Shoe Goo, Goop
Plumbing, and Goop Household, which I often find for $1-3 a tube.
But I'm really chea^H^H^H^Hfrugal.

I do not think that they are the same.

Nor do I, but I asked Eclectic in an email last night so I'd know. At
least, they'll send the MSDS. At best, they'll describe the
differences as well as the similarities, which I asked for. I'll post
the results I get.

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides

SNIP
..

Apart from those two I have not had much success with any other
adhesives. FWIW I found silicone far from permanent.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC


Hot day = failure?

Perhaps you could investigate the different coefficient of expansion for
the 3 materials:
Stone
Adhesive
Metal

Where the joint breaks may be a big clue.

I have exhausted my knowlwdge in this post.

Good luck

Mark


What about trying the cement used to attach the rear view mirror to the
windscreen on cars?
it must be UV resistant and it is also resistant to high temperatures as the
interior of a car can get pretty hot.