I came across this in google books while finding out how lard oil is
made.
http://books.google.com/books?id=4kh...ummary_r&cad=0

It doesn't tell. But it's an interesting book and they're many more
that have been scanned in.
Karl

I would like to know more about lard oil. I'm not sure but, black sulphurized thread cutting oil,
seems to be a recommended replacement.

Bob Swinney



wrote in message
...
I came across this in google books while finding out how lard oil is
made.
http://books.google.com/books?id=4kh...ummary_r&cad=0

It doesn't tell. But it's an interesting book and they're many more
that have been scanned in.
Karl

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
I would like to know more about lard oil. I'm not sure but, black
sulphurized thread cutting oil,
seems to be a recommended replacement.

Bob Swinney

They're not direct replacements, Bob. What is it that you want to know about
lard oil? It's been around for a century or two. It's just lard that's been
chilled until the stearin crystallizes, which allows the oil to be pressed
out of the goop and drawn off.

The lubricating properties of lard oil and unmodified mineral oil can be
similar, but the additives and some of the synthesized components used in
mineral-based lubricating oils give lubricating oil and cutting oil
radically different properties. Oil made for lubricating has properties that
are not good in a cutting oil. Motor oil is lousy cutting oil. It's made to
*prevent* local contact under high pressure, although its ability to do so
is limited at cutting-tool pressures.

Heavy thread-cutting oils have good cutting-oil properties except that they
don't get into the cut in a machine tool, so they don't do anything in a
deep cut. You want something that gets in there. Plain lard oil and the
non-lubricating mineral oils, formulated for cutting, will do that to some
degree. However, research (done mostly at Carnegie-Mellon Univ. in the
1950s) shows that they don't get into the cut as much as some people have
claimed over the years.

Basically, you want a cutting oil not to squeeze out under pressure, but you
want the film to puncture easily upon point contact. These are somewhat
contradictory properties but there are some additives that will help do it,
including white lead and sulfur. There are modern replacements for these.

Beyond that, there are chemical additives that actually get into the crystal
structure of the workpiece and help separate the grains when they're cleaved
with a cutting tool. Chlorine compounds will do this on some work materials.
So will carbon tetrachloride. Chlorine has been taken out of most cutting
oils because it forms carcinogenic compounds at the tool/work interface,
where the temperatures are locally very high. Carbon tet was never used in
commercial cutting fluids. But it was tested extensively at Carnegie-Mellon,
and the way it works is amazing. Unfortunately, it tends to kill machine
operators. d8-) I've used it. Some gage makers used it on hardened steel, a
century ago. They're all dead now for various reasons. I'm on borrowed time
myself. g

Modern high-performance water-miscible cutting oils ("soluble" oils) contain
chemical additives that are safer and that have some of the properties of
chlorine in a cut. Blasocut and other fancy-schmancy oils rely heavily on
the properties of these additives, I've been told by their vendors. I'm not
much interested in them for hobby work so I'm not up to date on these
fluids.

Plain lard oil, like Buttercut and some others that are still on the market,
are fine for the hobby shop. So are the simple mineral-oil cutting oils that
DoAll and such have sold for decades. I think that cooking up your own, or
using slop like used motor oil, is false economy and may be dangerous.

--
Ed Huntress

Geeze, Ed ! Thanx for the information; esp. the research timeline. My curiosity re. lard oil comes
from reading old books and articles. Its use was apparently de rigueur in the old days. I have not
found any modern definitions of the term, except for yours. Personally, it is more of a historical
curiosity with me. I generally use Tap Matic for turning and the Black Sufphurized mess for
threading.
Bob Swinney

They're not direct replacements, Bob. What is it that you want to know about
lard oil? It's been around for a century or two. It's just lard that's been
chilled until the stearin crystallizes, which allows the oil to be pressed
out of the goop and drawn off.

The lubricating properties of lard oil and unmodified mineral oil can be
similar, but the additives and some of the synthesized components used in
mineral-based lubricating oils give lubricating oil and cutting oil
radically different properties. Oil made for lubricating has properties that
are not good in a cutting oil. Motor oil is lousy cutting oil. It's made to
*prevent* local contact under high pressure, although its ability to do so
is limited at cutting-tool pressures.

Heavy thread-cutting oils have good cutting-oil properties except that they
don't get into the cut in a machine tool, so they don't do anything in a
deep cut. You want something that gets in there. Plain lard oil and the
non-lubricating mineral oils, formulated for cutting, will do that to some
degree. However, research (done mostly at Carnegie-Mellon Univ. in the
1950s) shows that they don't get into the cut as much as some people have
claimed over the years.

Basically, you want a cutting oil not to squeeze out under pressure, but you
want the film to puncture easily upon point contact. These are somewhat
contradictory properties but there are some additives that will help do it,
including white lead and sulfur. There are modern replacements for these.

Beyond that, there are chemical additives that actually get into the crystal
structure of the workpiece and help separate the grains when they're cleaved
with a cutting tool. Chlorine compounds will do this on some work materials.
So will carbon tetrachloride. Chlorine has been taken out of most cutting
oils because it forms carcinogenic compounds at the tool/work interface,
where the temperatures are locally very high. Carbon tet was never used in
commercial cutting fluids. But it was tested extensively at Carnegie-Mellon,
and the way it works is amazing. Unfortunately, it tends to kill machine
operators. d8-) I've used it. Some gage makers used it on hardened steel, a
century ago. They're all dead now for various reasons. I'm on borrowed time
myself. g

Modern high-performance water-miscible cutting oils ("soluble" oils) contain
chemical additives that are safer and that have some of the properties of
chlorine in a cut. Blasocut and other fancy-schmancy oils rely heavily on
the properties of these additives, I've been told by their vendors. I'm not
much interested in them for hobby work so I'm not up to date on these
fluids.

Plain lard oil, like Buttercut and some others that are still on the market,
are fine for the hobby shop. So are the simple mineral-oil cutting oils that
DoAll and such have sold for decades. I think that cooking up your own, or
using slop like used motor oil, is false economy and may be dangerous.

--
Ed Huntress


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Geeze, Ed ! Thanx for the information; esp. the research timeline. My
curiosity re. lard oil comes
from reading old books and articles. Its use was apparently de rigueur in
the old days. I have not
found any modern definitions of the term, except for yours. Personally,
it is more of a historical
curiosity with me.

Old, obsolete information is my specialty. It fits my overall character.
d8-)

I generally use Tap Matic for turning and the Black Sufphurized mess for
threading.
Bob Swinney

Aack! Do you use old phone books for toilet paper, too? g Tap Magic is
fairly nasty stuff -- at least, the original formula is. And it eats
aluminum. Maybe their newer versions don't. They have many versions of it
now.

Anyway, the Original is 90% 1,1,1 trichloroethane. Here's what they say
about it in their MSDS:

INHALATION: Minimal anesthetic or narcotic effects may be seen in the range
of 500-1000 ppm. Progressively higher levels over 1000 ppm may cause
dizziness, drunkenness; concentrations as low as 10,000 ppm can cause
unconsciousness and death. In confined or poorly ventilated areas, vapors
which readily accumulate can cause unconsciousness and death. These high
levels may also cause cardiac arrhythmias (irregular heart beats).

SKIN CONTACT: A single prolonged skin exposure is not likely to result in
absorption of harmful amounts. The LD50 for rabbits is about 15,000 mg/kg.

INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is low. The LD50 for rats is greater
than 10,000 mg/kg. If aspirated (liquid enters lung), may be rapidly
absorbed through the lungs and result in injury to other body systems.

Those are just the short-term (acute) effects. There are other long-term
(chronic) effects. If it were me, I'd find another cutting fluid for use on
a machine tool, and reserve the Tap Magic for tapping.

--
Ed Huntress

What I have is Tap Magic. I don't use if much for turning; mostly tapping. It contains none of the
1.1.1. Trichloroethane bad stuff.

Bob Swinney

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Geeze, Ed ! Thanx for the information; esp. the research timeline. My
curiosity re. lard oil comes
from reading old books and articles. Its use was apparently de rigueur in
the old days. I have not
found any modern definitions of the term, except for yours. Personally,
it is more of a historical
curiosity with me.

Old, obsolete information is my specialty. It fits my overall character.
d8-)

I generally use Tap Matic for turning and the Black Sufphurized mess for
threading.
Bob Swinney

Aack! Do you use old phone books for toilet paper, too? g Tap Magic is
fairly nasty stuff -- at least, the original formula is. And it eats
aluminum. Maybe their newer versions don't. They have many versions of it
now.

Anyway, the Original is 90% 1,1,1 trichloroethane. Here's what they say
about it in their MSDS:

INHALATION: Minimal anesthetic or narcotic effects may be seen in the range
of 500-1000 ppm. Progressively higher levels over 1000 ppm may cause
dizziness, drunkenness; concentrations as low as 10,000 ppm can cause
unconsciousness and death. In confined or poorly ventilated areas, vapors
which readily accumulate can cause unconsciousness and death. These high
levels may also cause cardiac arrhythmias (irregular heart beats).

SKIN CONTACT: A single prolonged skin exposure is not likely to result in
absorption of harmful amounts. The LD50 for rabbits is about 15,000 mg/kg.

INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is low. The LD50 for rats is greater
than 10,000 mg/kg. If aspirated (liquid enters lung), may be rapidly
absorbed through the lungs and result in injury to other body systems.

Those are just the short-term (acute) effects. There are other long-term
(chronic) effects. If it were me, I'd find another cutting fluid for use on
a machine tool, and reserve the Tap Magic for tapping.

--
Ed Huntress


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Pardon, make that 1,1,1, trychloroethylene. The label on the can says it has none.

Bob Swinney
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message ...
What I have is Tap Magic. I don't use if much for turning; mostly tapping. It contains none of the
1.1.1. Trichloroethane bad stuff.

Bob Swinney

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Geeze, Ed ! Thanx for the information; esp. the research timeline. My
curiosity re. lard oil comes
from reading old books and articles. Its use was apparently de rigueur in
the old days. I have not
found any modern definitions of the term, except for yours. Personally,
it is more of a historical
curiosity with me.

Old, obsolete information is my specialty. It fits my overall character.
d8-)

I generally use Tap Matic for turning and the Black Sufphurized mess for
threading.
Bob Swinney

Aack! Do you use old phone books for toilet paper, too? g Tap Magic is
fairly nasty stuff -- at least, the original formula is. And it eats
aluminum. Maybe their newer versions don't. They have many versions of it
now.

Anyway, the Original is 90% 1,1,1 trichloroethane. Here's what they say
about it in their MSDS:

INHALATION: Minimal anesthetic or narcotic effects may be seen in the range
of 500-1000 ppm. Progressively higher levels over 1000 ppm may cause
dizziness, drunkenness; concentrations as low as 10,000 ppm can cause
unconsciousness and death. In confined or poorly ventilated areas, vapors
which readily accumulate can cause unconsciousness and death. These high
levels may also cause cardiac arrhythmias (irregular heart beats).

SKIN CONTACT: A single prolonged skin exposure is not likely to result in
absorption of harmful amounts. The LD50 for rabbits is about 15,000 mg/kg.

INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is low. The LD50 for rats is greater
than 10,000 mg/kg. If aspirated (liquid enters lung), may be rapidly
absorbed through the lungs and result in injury to other body systems.

Those are just the short-term (acute) effects. There are other long-term
(chronic) effects. If it were me, I'd find another cutting fluid for use on
a machine tool, and reserve the Tap Magic for tapping.

--
Ed Huntress


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Geeze, Ed ! Thanx for the information; esp. the research timeline. My
curiosity re. lard oil comes
from reading old books and articles. Its use was apparently de rigueur
in the old days. I have not
found any modern definitions of the term, except for yours. Personally,
it is more of a historical
curiosity with me.

Old, obsolete information is my specialty. It fits my overall character.
d8-)

I generally use Tap Matic for turning and the Black Sufphurized mess for
threading.
Bob Swinney

Aack! Do you use old phone books for toilet paper, too? g Tap Magic is
fairly nasty stuff -- at least, the original formula is. And it eats
aluminum. Maybe their newer versions don't. They have many versions of it
now.

Anyway, the Original is 90% 1,1,1 trichloroethane. Here's what they say
about it in their MSDS:

INHALATION: Minimal anesthetic or narcotic effects may be seen in the
range of 500-1000 ppm. Progressively higher levels over 1000 ppm may cause
dizziness, drunkenness; concentrations as low as 10,000 ppm can cause
unconsciousness and death. In confined or poorly ventilated areas, vapors
which readily accumulate can cause unconsciousness and death. These high
levels may also cause cardiac arrhythmias (irregular heart beats).

SKIN CONTACT: A single prolonged skin exposure is not likely to result in
absorption of harmful amounts. The LD50 for rabbits is about 15,000 mg/kg.

INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is low. The LD50 for rats is greater
than 10,000 mg/kg. If aspirated (liquid enters lung), may be rapidly
absorbed through the lungs and result in injury to other body systems.

Those are just the short-term (acute) effects. There are other long-term
(chronic) effects. If it were me, I'd find another cutting fluid for use
on a machine tool, and reserve the Tap Magic for tapping.

--
Ed Huntress


Ed,


Us old-timey sign painters used lard oil in large amounts for preserving
lettering brushes, (flats, quills, fitches). It was able to remain fluid in
nearly any temperature, it kept any residual paint from hardening in
brushes, it would wash out easily, and even if you didn't wash it out
completely, it did not adversely affect the lettering enamel. Good stuff!

Flash

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Pardon, make that 1,1,1, trychloroethylene. The label on the can says it
has none.

Well, that's good. I think they still sell their Original formula, but they
have at least a half-dozen others now.

--
Ed Huntress



Bob Swinney
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
What I have is Tap Magic. I don't use if much for turning; mostly tapping.
It contains none of the
1.1.1. Trichloroethane bad stuff.

Bob Swinney

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Geeze, Ed ! Thanx for the information; esp. the research timeline. My
curiosity re. lard oil comes
from reading old books and articles. Its use was apparently de rigueur
in
the old days. I have not
found any modern definitions of the term, except for yours. Personally,
it is more of a historical
curiosity with me.

Old, obsolete information is my specialty. It fits my overall character.
d8-)

I generally use Tap Matic for turning and the Black Sufphurized mess for
threading.
Bob Swinney

Aack! Do you use old phone books for toilet paper, too? g Tap Magic is
fairly nasty stuff -- at least, the original formula is. And it eats
aluminum. Maybe their newer versions don't. They have many versions of it
now.

Anyway, the Original is 90% 1,1,1 trichloroethane. Here's what they say
about it in their MSDS:

INHALATION: Minimal anesthetic or narcotic effects may be seen in the
range
of 500-1000 ppm. Progressively higher levels over 1000 ppm may cause
dizziness, drunkenness; concentrations as low as 10,000 ppm can cause
unconsciousness and death. In confined or poorly ventilated areas, vapors
which readily accumulate can cause unconsciousness and death. These high
levels may also cause cardiac arrhythmias (irregular heart beats).

SKIN CONTACT: A single prolonged skin exposure is not likely to result in
absorption of harmful amounts. The LD50 for rabbits is about 15,000 mg/kg.

INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is low. The LD50 for rats is greater
than 10,000 mg/kg. If aspirated (liquid enters lung), may be rapidly
absorbed through the lungs and result in injury to other body systems.

Those are just the short-term (acute) effects. There are other long-term
(chronic) effects. If it were me, I'd find another cutting fluid for use
on
a machine tool, and reserve the Tap Magic for tapping.

--
Ed Huntress


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Flash" wrote in message
...

snip

Ed,


Us old-timey sign painters used lard oil in large amounts for preserving
lettering brushes, (flats, quills, fitches). It was able to remain fluid
in nearly any temperature, it kept any residual paint from hardening in
brushes, it would wash out easily, and even if you didn't wash it out
completely, it did not adversely affect the lettering enamel. Good
stuff!

That's one I hadn't heard of. I have heard they used it as lamp oil in
lighthouses. Pigs in those days must have been in high demand. d8-)

BTW, a friend of mine makes a great brush soap, used for fine-art brushes
and oil paints. It's called "Ugly Dog Soap." Have you heard of it?

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 00:04:14 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Flash" wrote in message
...

snip

Ed,


Us old-timey sign painters used lard oil in large amounts for preserving
lettering brushes, (flats, quills, fitches). It was able to remain fluid
in nearly any temperature, it kept any residual paint from hardening in
brushes, it would wash out easily, and even if you didn't wash it out
completely, it did not adversely affect the lettering enamel. Good
stuff!

That's one I hadn't heard of. I have heard they used it as lamp oil in
lighthouses. Pigs in those days must have been in high demand. d8-)

That's OK. They always did breed like rabbits.

Y'know, I'll bet that if we used hollow point bullets (stuffed with
lard, of course) in Iraq and Afghanistan, we'd find fewer folks to
shoot at.


BTW, a friend of mine makes a great brush soap, used for fine-art brushes
and oil paints. It's called "Ugly Dog Soap." Have you heard of it?

I just googled it and found it at Blick. I prefer pink soap
conditioner because I prefer acrylics to oil. I hadn't heard of UDS
before now. Your friend must be rich. That ****'s EXPENSIVE for
linseed oil.

--
A great preservative against angry and mutinous thoughts, and all
impatience and quarreling, is to have some great business and
interest in your mind, which, like a sponge shall suck up your
attention and keep you from brooding over what displeases you.
-- Joseph Rickaby