My attempt to turn tapers with the compound failed miserably ... I thought
that since they would lock together , they must be pretty good . Foolish me
, I discovered the error of my ways after a post here about using magic
marker to check fit .
Well , the taper attachment is coming along nicely . Got the mount
brackets and base plate mostly made , got the guide rod (3/4" O1 drill rod)
and the rod slider fit to each other , just needs a minor lapping for final
fit . Having a mill has made this a bunch easier !
Questions , how are they usually calibrated , inches per foot or per inch
? I have an adjustment screw arrangement calculated that will give me a
taper of .005" per inch per side per (adjustment screw) revolution , or I
can set it up for a per-foot basis . My other question , how long is long
enough ? I'm currently setting it up for an overall (lengthwise) travel of
about 16 inches more or less . That's a bit longer than most of the ones I
looked at for this size lathe while researching . I'm concerned about flex
in the guide rod ... and hope that 3/4" is stiff enough for this length .
This project is driven by my need for adjustable laps to recondition
bearing races (loose rollers with thrust washers ... what fun !) in a 1939
Harley I'm rebuilding . They just don't make the tools I need ... for less
than a Sultan's Ransom . And some they just plain don't make anymore .

--
Snag
wannabe machinist
and full time tool whore

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
My attempt to turn tapers with the compound failed miserably ... I
thought that since they would lock together , they must be pretty good .
Foolish me , I discovered the error of my ways after a post here about
using magic marker to check fit .
Well , the taper attachment is coming along nicely . Got the mount
brackets and base plate mostly made , got the guide rod (3/4" O1 drill
rod) and the rod slider fit to each other , just needs a minor lapping for
final fit . Having a mill has made this a bunch easier !
Questions , how are they usually calibrated , inches per foot or per inch
? I have an adjustment screw arrangement calculated that will give me a
taper of .005" per inch per side per (adjustment screw) revolution , or I
can set it up for a per-foot basis . My other question , how long is long
enough ? I'm currently setting it up for an overall (lengthwise) travel of
about 16 inches more or less . That's a bit longer than most of the ones I
looked at for this size lathe while researching . I'm concerned about flex
in the guide rod ... and hope that 3/4" is stiff enough for this length .
This project is driven by my need for adjustable laps to recondition
bearing races (loose rollers with thrust washers ... what fun !) in a
1939 Harley I'm rebuilding . They just don't make the tools I need ... for
less than a Sultan's Ransom . And some they just plain don't make anymore
.

--
Snag
wannabe machinist
and full time tool whore

I am sure you will get answers from people with lots more knowledge and
experience but I have a few thoughts. I began my stint as a motorcycle
mechanic in 1949 and have lapped a lot of those bearing races. The taper in
the laps should not have to be terribly precise. Surface finish and
smoothness of operation is important, as adjustment is made by feel of the
lap in the bore. The laps do not need to be more than about four inches long
on the working surface and the adjustment range only needs to be a few
thousandths, plus whatever you want for initial straightening and wear. The
main bearing lap needs to have a long stem and a cone or other method of
piloting to keep the two bores in alignment but should not lap both races
simultaneously. A good bearing fitting job is more care and technique than
precision of the lap. That said, it is important that the lap be uniform in
diameter and if it is initially so then proper use and care keeps it that
way. If it isn't you will notice it as a variation in tightness as you
traverse the full length of the lap thru the race.

My opinion is that a 3/4" diameter rod is not stiff enough to use for a 16"
taper.

Don Young

On 2008-08-02, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

Well , the taper attachment is coming along nicely . Got the mount
brackets and base plate mostly made , got the guide rod (3/4" O1 drill rod)
and the rod slider fit to each other , just needs a minor lapping for final
fit . Having a mill has made this a bunch easier !

I'll bet.

Questions , how are they usually calibrated , inches per foot or per inch
? I have an adjustment screw arrangement calculated that will give me a
taper of .005" per inch per side per (adjustment screw) revolution , or I
can set it up for a per-foot basis .

Hmm ... Mine has two calibrations -- one end is degrees, and the
other is inches per foot.

My other question , how long is long
enough ? I'm currently setting it up for an overall (lengthwise) travel of
about 16 inches more or less . That's a bit longer than most of the ones I
looked at for this size lathe while researching . I'm concerned about flex
in the guide rod ... and hope that 3/4" is stiff enough for this length .

Mine is something like 10" travel IIRC. Do you really *need*
more for what you are doing? And at that size, the bar is about 1-1/2
wide (the stress direction), perhaps 3/4" tall, pivoted at the center,
and clamped down at both ends, so the effective length between supports
is closer to 5 inches. Based on that, a 3/4" round rod will be *way* to
flexible -- even at the 10" length which mine has, and a lot worse on
the 16" which you are planning.

There is a block which straddles the bar with a fairly
respectable surface area.

If you want to see what mine looks like, check out:

http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...hment-7515.pdf

Download it and print it, since it is a scan of an old manual from
Clausing, and it takes forever to display -- so just wait once for your
printer to handle it, and then you can turn pages quickly. :-) It is a
total of four pages.

Note that I only use the calibrations on the ends for getting
close. Then I move the carriage a precise distance along the bed while
measuring the cross-slide travel -- while pulling back on the toolpost
to take the slack out of everything. This one came from an eBay
auction with only a guess that it would fit -- and a few parts which I
had to make once I figured out how it worked. If I had had the model
number (data plate fully worn off) I could have asked them for the
manual much sooner. :-)

This project is driven by my need for adjustable laps to recondition
bearing races (loose rollers with thrust washers ... what fun !) in a 1939
Harley I'm rebuilding . They just don't make the tools I need ... for less
than a Sultan's Ransom . And some they just plain don't make anymore .

So -- how long a taper do you need to make to produce these?
Let that guide you -- with a bit of extra travel to make the setup
measurements good. If you only need say three or four inches of taper,
go for perhaps 6" or maybe 8".

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Aug 1, 10:57*pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
...I'm concerned about flex
in the guide rod ... and hope that 3/4" is stiff enough for this length .
Snag

Would a 3/4" x 16" rod be stiff enough to turn to a good finish
between centers? The forces are the same.

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-02, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

Well , the taper attachment is coming along nicely . Got the mount
brackets and base plate mostly made , got the guide rod (3/4" O1
drill rod) and the rod slider fit to each other , just needs a minor
lapping for final fit . Having a mill has made this a bunch easier !

I'll bet.

Questions , how are they usually calibrated , inches per foot or
per inch ? I have an adjustment screw arrangement calculated that
will give me a taper of .005" per inch per side per (adjustment
screw) revolution , or I can set it up for a per-foot basis .

Hmm ... Mine has two calibrations -- one end is degrees, and the
other is inches per foot.

My other question , how long is
long enough ? I'm currently setting it up for an overall
(lengthwise) travel of about 16 inches more or less . That's a bit
longer than most of the ones I looked at for this size lathe while
researching . I'm concerned about flex in the guide rod ... and hope
that 3/4" is stiff enough for this length .

Mine is something like 10" travel IIRC. Do you really *need*
more for what you are doing? And at that size, the bar is about 1-1/2
wide (the stress direction), perhaps 3/4" tall, pivoted at the center,
and clamped down at both ends, so the effective length between
supports is closer to 5 inches. Based on that, a 3/4" round rod will
be *way* to flexible -- even at the 10" length which mine has, and a
lot worse on the 16" which you are planning.

There is a block which straddles the bar with a fairly
respectable surface area.

If you want to see what mine looks like, check out:

http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...hment-7515.pdf

Download it and print it, since it is a scan of an old manual from
Clausing, and it takes forever to display -- so just wait once for
your printer to handle it, and then you can turn pages quickly. :-)
It is a total of four pages.

Note that I only use the calibrations on the ends for getting
close. Then I move the carriage a precise distance along the bed
while measuring the cross-slide travel -- while pulling back on the
toolpost to take the slack out of everything. This one came from an
eBay auction with only a guess that it would fit -- and a few parts
which I had to make once I figured out how it worked. If I had had
the model number (data plate fully worn off) I could have asked them
for the manual much sooner. :-)

This project is driven by my need for adjustable laps to
recondition bearing races (loose rollers with thrust washers ...
what fun !) in a 1939 Harley I'm rebuilding . They just don't make
the tools I need ... for less than a Sultan's Ransom . And some they
just plain don't make anymore .

So -- how long a taper do you need to make to produce these?
Let that guide you -- with a bit of extra travel to make the setup
measurements good. If you only need say three or four inches of
taper, go for perhaps 6" or maybe 8".

Good Luck,
DoN.

Thank you very much Don! This is exactly the kind of info I needed . I
have a habit of thinking ahead , and figure some day I will need a longer
taper than the 3" ones I'm working with now , so I will keep the length .
But the 3/4" rod is gone ... and instead , I think I have a piece of flat
bar about 3" wide that can be adapted for this use .
Everything else about this thing is very rigid in a horizontal direction .
I got the round bar idea from a posting of plans for an attachment published
in PopSci or maybe it was PopMech (from the sixties , IIRC) . After printing
and looking at yours , I can see that it more closely resembles the one sold
by Logan , and so I will modify my design .

If I keep learning and gaining experience , someday I will no longer be ...
--
Snag
wannabe machinist

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Aug 1, 10:57 pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
...I'm concerned about flex
in the guide rod ... and hope that 3/4" is stiff enough for this
length . Snag

Would a 3/4" x 16" rod be stiff enough to turn to a good finish
between centers? The forces are the same.

A most excellent point ! I have been shown (by all three responses !) the
error in my judgement .
A wide flat bar will be making it's debut as the guide bar , I'll figure
out another use for the drill rod .
--
Snag
wannabe machinist

On 2008-08-03, Terry Coombs wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-02, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

My other question , how long is
long enough ? I'm currently setting it up for an overall
(lengthwise) travel of about 16 inches more or less . That's a bit
longer than most of the ones I looked at for this size lathe while
researching . I'm concerned about flex in the guide rod ... and hope
that 3/4" is stiff enough for this length .

Mine is something like 10" travel IIRC. Do you really *need*

[ ... ]

If you want to see what mine looks like, check out:

http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...hment-7515.pdf

Download it and print it, since it is a scan of an old manual from

[ ... ]

Thank you very much Don! This is exactly the kind of info I needed . I
have a habit of thinking ahead , and figure some day I will need a longer
taper than the 3" ones I'm working with now , so I will keep the length .
But the 3/4" rod is gone ... and instead , I think I have a piece of flat
bar about 3" wide that can be adapted for this use .

3" wide sounds good for a 16" long one. You might even get away
with 2-1/2" wide (perhaps you'll wind up there after finishing the bar,
depending on how rough it is now. :-)

Everything else about this thing is very rigid in a horizontal direction .
I got the round bar idea from a posting of plans for an attachment published
in PopSci or maybe it was PopMech (from the sixties , IIRC) .

O.K. How big a lathe was that for? At a guess, something like
the AA 109 version of the 6" Craftsman -- not the somewhat more rigid
6x18" Atlas also markeded as Craftsman.

After printing
and looking at yours , I can see that it more closely resembles the one sold
by Logan , and so I will modify my design .

My lathe is a 12x24 -- so it does not have enough length to do
too long a taper. The bed clamp is beside the tailstock with this
length bed for most cases. And it is a nice rigid lathe for its size,
so a rigid taper attachment makes sense too. In particular, the design
of the mount on the back of the carriage is quite rigid, and the
dovetail which mounts the bottom of the angle bar assembly is fairly
rigid too.

If I keep learning and gaining experience , someday I will no longer be ...

Oops -- snipped your title. Sorry. But yes, doing everything
you can with your tools, and pushing what you know will slowly make the
transition.

Out of curiosity -- why do you put one or two spaces between the
end of a sentence and the period, or the end of a word and the comma?
Granted, it is a good thing to do when you're posting a URL or something
else where a '.' could be confusing if it were run against the end, but
it can confuse my spelling checker, which assumes that lines starting
with a '.' are special formatting commands. I know that you don't start
yours with periods, but if my system thinks the lines are too long and I
reformat them a period is likely to end up at the beginning of a line
sometimes. They seem to end at about 77 characters, which won't
trigger the newsreader's complaints until it is quoted two or three
times. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-03, Terry Coombs wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-02, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

My other question , how long
is long enough ? I'm currently setting it up for an overall
(lengthwise) travel of about 16 inches more or less . That's a bit
longer than most of the ones I looked at for this size lathe while
researching . I'm concerned about flex in the guide rod ... and
hope that 3/4" is stiff enough for this length .

Mine is something like 10" travel IIRC. Do you really *need*

[ ... ]

If you want to see what mine looks like, check out:

http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...hment-7515.pdf

Download it and print it, since it is a scan of an old manual from

[ ... ]

Thank you very much Don! This is exactly the kind of info I needed
. I have a habit of thinking ahead , and figure some day I will need
a longer taper than the 3" ones I'm working with now , so I will
keep the length . But the 3/4" rod is gone ... and instead , I think
I have a piece of flat bar about 3" wide that can be adapted for
this use .

3" wide sounds good for a 16" long one. You might even get away
with 2-1/2" wide (perhaps you'll wind up there after finishing the
bar, depending on how rough it is now. :-)

Looks like I'll be running to the steel store friday afternoon , the piece
I have isn't going to work .

Everything else about this thing is very rigid in a horizontal
direction . I got the round bar idea from a posting of plans for an
attachment published in PopSci or maybe it was PopMech (from the
sixties , IIRC) .

O.K. How big a lathe was that for? At a guess, something like
the AA 109 version of the 6" Craftsman -- not the somewhat more rigid
6x18" Atlas also markeded as Craftsman.

I think it was a Craftsman they had this one on , though I don't remember
the model .

After
printing and looking at yours , I can see that it more closely
resembles the one sold by Logan , and so I will modify my design .

My lathe is a 12x24 -- so it does not have enough length to do
too long a taper. The bed clamp is beside the tailstock with this
length bed for most cases. And it is a nice rigid lathe for its size,
so a rigid taper attachment makes sense too. In particular, the
design of the mount on the back of the carriage is quite rigid, and
the dovetail which mounts the bottom of the angle bar assembly is
fairly rigid too.

Mine's a 10X30 Wards/Logan . Quite a machine for a hobbyist . My mount is
a piece of 2 X2 X 3/16 angle , on two 3/4 X 1 1/2 X 2" blocks that clamp to
the back flat way .

If I keep learning and gaining experience , someday I will no longer
be ...

Oops -- snipped your title. Sorry. But yes, doing everything
you can with your tools, and pushing what you know will slowly make
the transition.

Out of curiosity -- why do you put one or two spaces between the
end of a sentence and the period, or the end of a word and the comma?
Granted, it is a good thing to do when you're posting a URL or
something else where a '.' could be confusing if it were run against
the end, but it can confuse my spelling checker, which assumes that
lines starting with a '.' are special formatting commands. I know
that you don't start yours with periods, but if my system thinks the
lines are too long and I reformat them a period is likely to end up
at the beginning of a line sometimes. They seem to end at about 77
characters, which won't trigger the newsreader's complaints until it
is quoted two or three times. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

I have no real reason for the spacing , just the way I've always done it .
As far as I know , the line wrap is set to the OE program's default settings
..
--
Snag
'90 Ultra "Strider"
'39 WLDD "Popcycle"
Buncha cars and a truck

On 2008-08-05, Terry Coombs wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-03, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

3" wide sounds good for a 16" long one. You might even get away
with 2-1/2" wide (perhaps you'll wind up there after finishing the
bar, depending on how rough it is now. :-)

Looks like I'll be running to the steel store friday afternoon , the piece
I have isn't going to work .

O.K.

[ ... ]

O.K. How big a lathe was that for? At a guess, something like
the AA 109 version of the 6" Craftsman -- not the somewhat more rigid
6x18" Atlas also markeded as Craftsman.

I think it was a Craftsman they had this one on , though I don't remember
the model .

Probably the 6x18 Atlas, or the AA 109. Anything bigger would
be too strong for it.

[ ... ]

My lathe is a 12x24 -- so it does not have enough length to do

[ ... ]

Mine's a 10X30 Wards/Logan . Quite a machine for a hobbyist . My mount is
a piece of 2 X2 X 3/16 angle , on two 3/4 X 1 1/2 X 2" blocks that clamp to
the back flat way .

Clamps to the bed flat? The one I have bolts to the back of the
carriage so it moves with the carriage. A clamp on the end of a rod
clamps to the back flat beside the tailstock so the base with the female
dovetail travels with the carriage, keeping the strong mounting close to
the centerline of the cross-slide leadscrew. The taper rod and its male
dovetail base are locked to the bed by the clamp at a proper position to
give you the coverage you need with the 10" total bar length.

If you're going to clamp a 16" one to the bed you'll need to do
it in two places either side of the carriage travel -- including any
needed overtravel.

[ ... ]

Out of curiosity -- why do you put one or two spaces between the
end of a sentence and the period, or the end of a word and the comma?

[ ... ]

I have no real reason for the spacing , just the way I've always done it .

Even in school? (Of course, you were probably not typing your
papers in school, so it might not have been as obvious to your teachers.

As far as I know , the line wrap is set to the OE program's default settings
.

And there we wound up with a line starting with a '.' -- but the
quoting '' kept it from being a problem to my spelling checker.

O.K. The lines are a little longer than the suggested 72
characters to allow for more levels of quoting, but within reason.
Nobody ever expects Microsoft to follow standards from outside
Microsoft. :-(

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-05, Terry Coombs wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-03, Terry Coombs wrote:

[ ... ]

3" wide sounds good for a 16" long one. You might even get away
with 2-1/2" wide (perhaps you'll wind up there after finishing the
bar, depending on how rough it is now. :-)


snipped a whole bunch of stuff ...

My unit is based on an angle iron about 30" long , top is 2 3/4 wide ,
vert is two inches . It's 3/16" thick . It hangs from the back side of the
ways on two blocks (one on each end) machined for a snug fit over the back
flat way . Clamp blocks on the bottom hold them in place , alignment is from
the fit . Pictures ... so easy with photos , but right now I have nowhere .
Anyway , there will be a 3.5" wide by 1/4 thick flat guide bar (just cut
it from a piece of bigass angle I had) pivoted near the center , with an
adjuster screw arrangement on the tailstock end and clamps on both ends .
The guide block that rides on this and guides the crossfeed will be about 4"
wide , for plenty of surface area . Thinking about it , I'm going to set it
up so it can be pivoted either at 10" or 12" from the adjuster screw
centerline . With a 20 tpi adjuster screw , each turn will be .100" total
taper , pivot position will determine thousandths/inch or inches/foot . I
have a scrap handwheel with a dial with a hundred divisions ...
Once I finish , I will post pics and a text file in the dropbox . Turns
out almost all the material has been from scrap I had on hand . A few bolts
and one small piece of mild steel is all I've needed to buy so far .
--
Snag
'90 Ultra "Strider"
'39 WLDD "Popcycle"
Buncha cars and a truck

On 2008-08-06, Terry Coombs wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-08-05, Terry Coombs wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

3" wide sounds good for a 16" long one. You might even get away
with 2-1/2" wide (perhaps you'll wind up there after finishing the
bar, depending on how rough it is now. :-)


snipped a whole bunch of stuff ...

Good!

My unit is based on an angle iron about 30" long , top is 2 3/4 wide ,
vert is two inches . It's 3/16" thick . It hangs from the back side of the
ways on two blocks (one on each end) machined for a snug fit over the back
flat way . Clamp blocks on the bottom hold them in place , alignment is from
the fit . Pictures ... so easy with photos , but right now I have nowhere .
Anyway , there will be a 3.5" wide by 1/4 thick flat guide bar (just cut
it from a piece of bigass angle I had) pivoted near the center , with an
adjuster screw arrangement on the tailstock end and clamps on both ends .
The guide block that rides on this and guides the crossfeed will be about 4"
wide , for plenty of surface area . Thinking about it , I'm going to set it
up so it can be pivoted either at 10" or 12" from the adjuster screw
centerline . With a 20 tpi adjuster screw , each turn will be .100" total
taper , pivot position will determine thousandths/inch or inches/foot . I
have a scrap handwheel with a dial with a hundred divisions ...
Once I finish , I will post pics and a text file in the dropbox . Turns
out almost all the material has been from scrap I had on hand . A few bolts
and one small piece of mild steel is all I've needed to buy so far .

Sounds like an interesting design.

I look forward to a link to the photos when you are done.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---