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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
On 2008-05-10, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: I had to fold the "References: " header again. It got too long for jove to accept on a single line. :-) Then I had to create my own } Message-Id: because that was where jove was snipping things off when following-up. Perhaps we should start trimming the end of the References header every reply if we're going to keep this long a thread going. Of course, it will mess up threading, but at least it won't hit the 1024 byte line length limit on jove -- or force me to move to emacs. :-) I never delved into how the threading mechanism works, and the nesting gets pretty deep and sometimes complex, but perhaps there is a clever way to prune. Well ... my approach -- pre-folding the header and starting every extra one with a tab at the left margin was too successful. The system accepted it as a properly folded header, and straightened it out again. I've folded again, and after the first few, I've introduced an "X-References: " header Perhaps it's best to start a daughter thread of the same title. We would have to edit out the existing "References: " to make it be accepted as a new thread. Essentially, the newsreader takes the "References: " header's contents which represents a long string of messages, gets older messages by "Message-Id: ", and finds all of the articles which reference those to build up the full thread tree. This sounds like far too much effort compared to spawning daughter threads as needed. Editing out the "References: " headers is easy (at least in my newsreader), and I've modified the "Subject: " header too to start from scratch with this one (if you spot it by "Subject: " header, at least. :-) Of course, Windows newsreaders (like OE) and some others simply use the "Subject: " header contents and ignore the "References: " totally. And -- they also Take any two-character start to the Subject header which is followed by a ':' and delete it, replacing all of them it finds with a single "". It assumes that anything of that format is "" in some language or other, which results in attempts to mark a thread as off-topic by prepending "OT: " to the "Subject: " header results in it being stripped off the first time it passes through OE. :-( Another bit of evidence of MS's deep respect for standards. Of course -- if people would stop using the ':', it would work as desired. Of course, in English syntax anyway, the colon is the correct punctuation mark to use. Right -- but in Subject line syntax, as implemented by Microsoft, it is unfortunately not. :-) [ ... ] So -- make your own [blade holder] using the design of the Aloris one. The main trick is getting the dovetail width and depth right. The trick for measuring the width is to measure between two pieces of drill rod pushed into the 'V's. Hmm. The BXA-7R would be a lot of trouble to duplicate in full, but it is certainly practical to duplicate the BXA dovetail, allowing me to make special BXA toolholders. Yes -- and you could make a rear-mounted toolpost whose sole purpose is to mount a parting tool, so it does not have the two dovetails, just the one, and can be locked by pulling in the rear dovetail (the one away from the centerline of the spindle) with a through bolt and a nut, since it does not need to be quick change. This could get the blade a lot closer to the bolt which holds it down. You could even pass that bolt partially through the dovetail -- and give the rear post a foot which extends under the actual parting tool to make it less likely to tilt under cutting forces. I can visualize a number of ways to do this, but they all sound a bit over-extended and floppy. I think that if I make anything, it will a for front-mounting an upsidedown blade, to be used with lathe in reverse. The design that I had in mind would neither be over-extended nor floppy -- but it requires a cross-slide with back T-slots. (Such were made for the Clausing lathes, and were often supplied with the turret-equipped ones -- but would be unlikely to be used in reverse with the original threaded spindle on my machine. (It came as 2-1/4x8 threaded, and is now L-00 thanks to a spindle transplant. Of course -- you would want a cross-slide which had rear T-slots to do it properly. That's the problem. I have the ordinary one-slot tool slide, and it does not have the reach to allow use of rear parting tools. By "tool slide" I'm used to reading that as the slide on the compound, not the cross-slide. The compound is not involved here -- just a cross-slide with an extra T-slot or two along its length, including at least one at the back. And the standard cross-slide (or at least mine) does not have a straight T-slot at all -- just a circular one around the stud on which the compound pivots. [ ... ] Perhaps. Or make something which you can clamp in the regular holder but which will hold the blade of your choice upside down. I received a somewhat beat up Hardinge C31 cutoff blade holder with the lathe. The C31 is designed to be clamped in the slot of a toolholder in their CHNC line. Google for "HARDINGE CHNC TOOLING.PDF". O.K. A starting point. It will go in the slot of a BXA-1 won't it? It will. The attachment stub plate is 0.438" thick (the clamping dimension) by 0.5" deep (into the BXA-1 slot) by 1.25" long. O.K. That gets you started. [ ... ] I think I'll also troll in the catalogs of BXA-compatible toolpost vendors for ideas and/or products. O.K. Though I'll bet that you won't find much in the others which is not in the Aloris catalog. Yes and no. Phase II and DTM seem to have only a subset of the Aloris range, but Dorian Tool in particular seems to have their own ideas and products. I'm looking at the Dorian D30BXA-7-71C, which looks capable of full reversal and is it's own mirror image, looks like the best bet. The Dorian D30BXA-771, which is billed as "universal" but not reversible, seems less suited to use with upsidedown blades. O.K. I'll take your word for it. Hmm ... I wonder how many Dorian toolposts and holders show up in eBay? [ ... ] Felts. The left front carriage wiper always leaves a black dirty-oil trail in the bed way. Solvent cleaning didn't help, although continuous flushing by over-oiling with Vactra #2 is helping. What happens if you remove the felt from under the cover and just squish it in a vise or in pliers? Does it squirt out black goo then? If so, then it is time to purchase or make replacements. Start with an arch punch to cut out circles of the right diameter, then a guillotine to cut the flat on the bottom and a leather punch to punch the screw hole, and you can make new ones from high density felt (which you can get from MSC or McMaster Carr in lifetime supply quantities (and only in such quantities. :-) The felt is very hard, and does not squish. I think it is solidified with hardened cutting oil. I bet I have the original felts all around. Ouch! New felts needed for sure. If it is hard, it could pick up abrasives and abrade the flame-hardened ways. I should see if the black is coming from the carriage versus the felt, as I have not yet disassembled and cleaned this part of the lathe. Yes -- you should. If it is coming from under the carriage, then it suggests that the carriage ways are worn into a shallow arc, which could contribute to your chatter problems. Then it would be time to look for a replacement on eBay, or to explore the special compounds used to make replacement ways. Ah yes -- "Moglice" is the name, I was struggling for it for a bit. :-) Hmm. I don't think that this is a significant problem, but I'll test for this. The simplest approach is to mount a dial indicator on the carriage with the indicator probe tip riding the the flat tailstock way, and crank the carriage back and forth (to test the bed ways) and torque the carriage for-and-aft with a bar in a boring bar holder (to see if the bottom of the carriage is shaped like a boat hull). I would think that the rocking would be constrained by the hold-down plates. It doesn't take much -- and given enough time, the hold-down plates would wear in a matching pattern, which would control straight lift, but which would allow the rocking towards the headstock and tailstock. [ ... ] O.K. I'm retired too long to have the money to buy more large tools, so that will simply be filed in memory somewhere in case I win a *real* lottery instead of all the fake ones I get e-mails about. :-) Who knows. Maybe that nice man from West Africa will arrive with the $20 million he promised. Maybe. Have you noticed that the recent ones (or at least some of them) *admit* that the previous ones were scams, and purport to be the government of Nigeria trying to set things right. :-) I've seen those. And the ones that purport to come from other than Nigeria, but have the same story and sure sound like Nigerian English. And often use all caps. It is usually Nigerian citizens resident in other countries, even the Scandanavian ones, and certainly in the UK. (This all based on the IP addresses from which they are delivered. Unlike other spams, these 419 scams need to give you a way to contact them. :-) Retirement is a few years away for me. Good luck with that. [ ... machine transporting ... ] Perhaps. But the prices will probably change on a day-to-day basis with the fuel costs. True enough, but probably not the biggest cost. It may well be just that at today's fuel prices -- especially bearing in mind that diesel now costs more than gasoline. Well, it will be at least a year before I contemplate buying another machine, and we will have a different set of problems by then. O.K. It would be nice if fuel costs fell back down a bit. (Actually, I would *love* for them to go to where they were when I first started driving -- $0.25/Gallon. Three dollars' worth would fill the tank on my MGA. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-10, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [snip] Editing out the "References: " headers is easy (at least in my newsreader), and I've modified the "Subject: " header too to start from scratch with this one (if you spot it by "Subject: " header, at least. :-) I do sort by subject as part my spam cleaning process. I also first sort by author. Between the two sweeps, I catch and mark most of the spam with good efficiency. [ ... ] So -- make your own [blade holder] using the design of the Aloris one. The main trick is getting the dovetail width and depth right. The trick for measuring the width is to measure between two pieces of drill rod pushed into the 'V's. Hmm. The BXA-7R would be a lot of trouble to duplicate in full, but it is certainly practical to duplicate the BXA dovetail, allowing me to make special BXA toolholders. Yes -- and you could make a rear-mounted toolpost whose sole purpose is to mount a parting tool, so it does not have the two dovetails, just the one, and can be locked by pulling in the rear dovetail (the one away from the centerline of the spindle) with a through bolt and a nut, since it does not need to be quick change. This could get the blade a lot closer to the bolt which holds it down. You could even pass that bolt partially through the dovetail -- and give the rear post a foot which extends under the actual parting tool to make it less likely to tilt under cutting forces. I can visualize a number of ways to do this, but they all sound a bit over-extended and floppy. I think that if I make anything, it will be for front-mounting an upsidedown blade, to be used with lathe in reverse. The design that I had in mind would neither be over-extended nor floppy -- but it requires a cross-slide with back T-slots. (Such were made for the Clausing lathes, and were often supplied with the turret-equipped ones -- but would be unlikely to be used in reverse with the original threaded spindle on my machine. (It came as 2-1/4x8 threaded, and is now L-00 thanks to a spindle transplant. Of course -- you would want a cross-slide which had rear T-slots to do it properly. That's the problem. I have the ordinary one-slot tool slide, and it does not have the reach to allow use of rear parting tools. By "tool slide" I'm used to reading that as the slide on the compound, not the cross-slide. The compound is not involved here -- just a cross-slide with an extra T-slot or two along its length, including at least one at the back. And the standard cross-slide (or at least mine) does not have a straight T-slot at all -- just a circular one around the stud on which the compound pivots. I've never seen the extended multi-slot slide. I had visualized it as a larger tool slid (topmost, dovetailed to the compound, which swivels), but it seems that the extra T-slots or on the back of the cross-slide, and thus cannot swivel. Is there a photo available? [ ... ] I think I'll also troll in the catalogs of BXA-compatible toolpost vendors for ideas and/or products. O.K. Though I'll bet that you won't find much in the others which is not in the Aloris catalog. Yes and no. Phase II and DTM seem to have only a subset of the Aloris range, but Dorian Tool in particular seems to have their own ideas and products. I'm looking at the Dorian D30BXA-7-71C, which looks capable of full reversal and is it's own mirror image, looks like the best bet. The Dorian D30BXA-771, which is billed as "universal" but not reversible, seems less suited to use with upsidedown blades. O.K. I'll take your word for it. Hmm ... I wonder how many Dorian toolposts and holders show up in eBay? I found 16 hits for "Dorian" and 22+ for "BXA" under Metalworking Tooling in eBay: "Buy Business & Industrial Manufacturing & Metalworking Metalworking Tooling" [ ... ] Felts. The left front carriage wiper always leaves a black dirty-oil trail in the bed way. Solvent cleaning didn't help, although continuous flushing by over-oiling with Vactra #2 is helping. What happens if you remove the felt from under the cover and just squish it in a vise or in pliers? Does it squirt out black goo then? If so, then it is time to purchase or make replacements. Start with an arch punch to cut out circles of the right diameter, then a guillotine to cut the flat on the bottom and a leather punch to punch the screw hole, and you can make new ones from high density felt (which you can get from MSC or McMaster Carr in lifetime supply quantities (and only in such quantities. :-) The felt is very hard, and does not squish. I think it is solidified with hardened cutting oil. I bet I have the original felts all around. Ouch! New felts needed for sure. If it is hard, it could pick up abrasives and abrade the flame-hardened ways. Yep. Acetone wasn't enough to soften the felts. To be replaced. I should see if the black is coming from the carriage versus the felt, as I have not yet disassembled and cleaned this part of the lathe. Yes -- you should. If it is coming from under the carriage, then it suggests that the carriage ways are worn into a shallow arc, which could contribute to your chatter problems. Then it would be time to look for a replacement on eBay, or to explore the special compounds used to make replacement ways. Ah yes -- "Moglice" is the name, I was struggling for it for a bit. :-) Hmm. I don't think that this is a significant problem, but I'll test for this. The simplest approach is to mount a dial indicator on the carriage with the indicator probe tip riding the the flat tailstock way, and crank the carriage back and forth (to test the bed ways) and torque the carriage for-and-aft with a bar in a boring bar holder (to see if the bottom of the carriage is shaped like a boat hull). I would think that the rocking would be constrained by the hold-down plates. It doesn't take much -- and given enough time, the hold-down plates would wear in a matching pattern, which would control straight lift, but which would allow the rocking towards the headstock and tailstock. Yes. Tests are in order. [ ... ] O.K. I'm retired too long to have the money to buy more large tools, so that will simply be filed in memory somewhere in case I win a *real* lottery instead of all the fake ones I get e-mails about. :-) Who knows. Maybe that nice man from West Africa will arrive with the $20 million he promised. Maybe. Have you noticed that the recent ones (or at least some of them) *admit* that the previous ones were scams, and purport to be the government of Nigeria trying to set things right. :-) I've seen those. And the ones that purport to come from other than Nigeria, but have the same story and sure sound like Nigerian English. And often use all caps. It is usually Nigerian citizens resident in other countries, even the Scandanavian ones, and certainly in the UK. (This all based on the IP addresses from which they are delivered. Unlike other spams, these 419 scams need to give you a way to contact them. :-) Ahh. I would have thought that the back-path would lead to Nigeria, not to a European country with an effective legal system and police force. Retirement is a few years away for me. Good luck with that. Which? The few years, or the retirement? [ ... machine transporting ... ] Perhaps. But the prices will probably change on a day-to-day basis with the fuel costs. True enough, but probably not the biggest cost. It may well be just that at today's fuel prices -- especially bearing in mind that diesel now costs more than gasoline. Well, it will be at least a year before I contemplate buying another machine, and we will have a different set of problems by then. O.K. It would be nice if fuel costs fell back down a bit. (Actually, I would *love* for them to go to where they were when I first started driving -- $0.25/Gallon. Three dollars' worth would fill the tank on my MGA. :-) Yeahbut -- that was when a dollar was worth a dollar, not a dime. Joe Gwinn |
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#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
On 2008-05-11, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Editing out the "References: " headers is easy (at least in my newsreader), and I've modified the "Subject: " header too to start from scratch with this one (if you spot it by "Subject: " header, at least. :-) I do sort by subject as part my spam cleaning process. I also first sort by author. Between the two sweeps, I catch and mark most of the spam with good efficiency. O.K. Most of my newsgroup spam cleaning is done by "NNTP-Posting-Host: " IP range, and by contents of Subject line, and by "From: " address. Only a few show up now in a new day's reading, if any at all. [ ... ] Yes -- and you could make a rear-mounted toolpost whose sole purpose is to mount a parting tool, so it does not have the two [ ... ] Of course -- you would want a cross-slide which had rear T-slots to do it properly. That's the problem. I have the ordinary one-slot tool slide, and it does not have the reach to allow use of rear parting tools. By "tool slide" I'm used to reading that as the slide on the compound, not the cross-slide. The compound is not involved here -- just a cross-slide with an extra T-slot or two along its length, including at least one at the back. And the standard cross-slide (or at least mine) does not have a straight T-slot at all -- just a circular one around the stud on which the compound pivots. I've never seen the extended multi-slot slide. I had visualized it as a larger tool slid (topmost, dovetailed to the compound, which swivels), but it seems that the extra T-slots or on the back of the cross-slide, and thus cannot swivel. Is there a photo available? Hmm ... Since I don't have one -- I can't photograph it -- but I do have some scans of old sales brochures (1958) which show them. (No, I don't have the originals, and have never seen the originals, just the scans.) First -- try this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...sOnly-1958.pdf look in page 26 (PDF sees it as page 5 of 6) and you can see my bed turret at the top of the same page, and the turret bed (carriage) stop near the bottom of the same page, and the taper attachments on the last page. Then -- there is this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...eOnly-1958.pdf page 8 of 9 (PDF view), page 16 dead-tree view shows the lathe with cross-slide and bed turret, and the two individualy -- but no better. I guess that the lever moves the cross-slide in a narrow range, while the cross-slide leadscrew moves it over a wider range. Note that this one does *not* provide a compound at all. (Not really needed for that kind of work.) But -- there is nothing which need prevent a cross-slide with extra T-slots from having a compound as well. [ ... ] I'm looking at the Dorian D30BXA-7-71C, which looks capable of full reversal and is it's own mirror image, looks like the best bet. The Dorian D30BXA-771, which is billed as "universal" but not reversible, seems less suited to use with upsidedown blades. O.K. I'll take your word for it. Hmm ... I wonder how many Dorian toolposts and holders show up in eBay? I found 16 hits for "Dorian" and 22+ for "BXA" under Metalworking Tooling in eBay: "Buy Business & Industrial Manufacturing & Metalworking Metalworking Tooling" O.K. [ ... ] The felt is very hard, and does not squish. I think it is solidified with hardened cutting oil. I bet I have the original felts all around. Ouch! New felts needed for sure. If it is hard, it could pick up abrasives and abrade the flame-hardened ways. Yep. Acetone wasn't enough to soften the felts. To be replaced. Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. [ ... ] Hmm. I don't think that this is a significant problem, but I'll test for this. The simplest approach is to mount a dial indicator on the carriage with the indicator probe tip riding the the flat tailstock way, and crank the carriage back and forth (to test the bed ways) and torque the carriage for-and-aft with a bar in a boring bar holder (to see if the bottom of the carriage is shaped like a boat hull). I would think that the rocking would be constrained by the hold-down plates. It doesn't take much -- and given enough time, the hold-down plates would wear in a matching pattern, which would control straight lift, but which would allow the rocking towards the headstock and tailstock. Yes. Tests are in order. Absolutely. [ ... ] Have you noticed that the recent ones (or at least some of them) *admit* that the previous ones were scams, and purport to be the government of Nigeria trying to set things right. :-) I've seen those. And the ones that purport to come from other than Nigeria, but have the same story and sure sound like Nigerian English. And often use all caps. It is usually Nigerian citizens resident in other countries, even the Scandanavian ones, and certainly in the UK. (This all based on the IP addresses from which they are delivered. Unlike other spams, these 419 scams need to give you a way to contact them. :-) Ahh. I would have thought that the back-path would lead to Nigeria, not to a European country with an effective legal system and police force. Nope -- they are out-of-country natives of Nigeria, posting from Internet Cafe type sites, where they can't be identified or tracked back. Retirement is a few years away for me. Good luck with that. Which? The few years, or the retirement? Both -- in proper order. [ ... ] Well, it will be at least a year before I contemplate buying another machine, and we will have a different set of problems by then. O.K. It would be nice if fuel costs fell back down a bit. (Actually, I would *love* for them to go to where they were when I first started driving -- $0.25/Gallon. Three dollars' worth would fill the tank on my MGA. :-) Yeahbut -- that was when a dollar was worth a dollar, not a dime. Hmm ... worse than that, I think, with the gallon of gasoline going from $0.25 to $3.60 or so. It is closer to $0.07/Dollar now, based on fuel costs. I think that was around 1962 or so. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-11, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Yes -- and you could make a rear-mounted toolpost whose sole purpose is to mount a parting tool, so it does not have the two [ ... ] Of course -- you would want a cross-slide which had rear T-slots to do it properly. That's the problem. I have the ordinary one-slot tool slide, and it does not have the reach to allow use of rear parting tools. By "tool slide" I'm used to reading that as the slide on the compound, not the cross-slide. The compound is not involved here -- just a cross-slide with an extra T-slot or two along its length, including at least one at the back. And the standard cross-slide (or at least mine) does not have a straight T-slot at all -- just a circular one around the stud on which the compound pivots. I've never seen the extended multi-slot slide. I had visualized it as a larger tool slid (topmost, dovetailed to the compound, which swivels), but it seems that the extra T-slots or on the back of the cross-slide, and thus cannot swivel. Is there a photo available? Hmm ... Since I don't have one -- I can't photograph it -- but I do have some scans of old sales brochures (1958) which show them. (No, I don't have the originals, and have never seen the originals, just the scans.) First -- try this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/CLAUSING/Clausing5400BrochureAccessoriesOnly-1958.pdf Link failed. look in page 26 (PDF sees it as page 5 of 6) and you can see my bed turret at the top of the same page, and the turret bed (carriage) stop near the bottom of the same page, and the taper attachments on the last page. Then -- there is this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/CLAUSING/Clausing5400BrochureLatheOnly-1958.pdf page 8 of 9 (PDF view), page 16 dead-tree view shows the lathe with cross-slide and bed turret, and the two individualy -- but no better. I guess that the lever moves the cross-slide in a narrow range, while the cross-slide leadscrew moves it over a wider range. Link also failed. Actually, www.d-and-d.com is not responding. Note that this one does *not* provide a compound at all. (Not really needed for that kind of work.) But -- there is nothing which need prevent a cross-slide with extra T-slots from having a compound as well. So, the back slots do not swivel. [ ... ] The felt is very hard, and does not squish. I think it is solidified with hardened cutting oil. I bet I have the original felts all around. Ouch! New felts needed for sure. If it is hard, it could pick up abrasives and abrade the flame-hardened ways. Yep. Acetone wasn't enough to soften the felts. To be replaced. Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. I just disassembled and cleaned the cotter that clamps the tailstock. The spooge had pinned one half of the cotter in place, and it took a prybar to free it. [ ... ] Hmm. I don't think that this is a significant problem, but I'll test for this. The simplest approach is to mount a dial indicator on the carriage with the indicator probe tip riding the the flat tailstock way, and crank the carriage back and forth (to test the bed ways) and torque the carriage for-and-aft with a bar in a boring bar holder (to see if the bottom of the carriage is shaped like a boat hull). I would think that the rocking would be constrained by the hold-down plates. It doesn't take much -- and given enough time, the hold-down plates would wear in a matching pattern, which would control straight lift, but which would allow the rocking towards the headstock and tailstock. Yes. Tests are in order. Absolutely. Tests performed. The carriage bottom is not boat-hull shaped, and the carriage does not rock. However, there is some wear on the bed ways near the headstock, judging by the variation between carriage and headstock way as the carriage is cranked back and forth. The max excursion is ~0.005" near the headstock. I also put a 3-foot length of 0.75" diameter rod in the boring-bar toolholder and applied force up and down by hand, with the lathe stopped and quiet. This was very instructive. One could see and feel the toolslide (atop the compound) tilting, with most of the action being in the compound slide dovetail. Tightened toolslide gibs. Much better. Also some motion in the cross-slide dovetail; tightened gibs. It's amazing just how tight these slideways need to be. One could also hear the oil being slurped in and out in the gap between carriage and bed way. However, after all that tightening, I was able to use the 0.206" wide tool upsidedown with lathe in reverse to peel off very thin 1018 steel chips, down to 0.0005" after sharpening the toolbit. Did this under power feed, yielding a very uniform and continuous chip ~0.002" thick by 0.206" wide, leaving very shiney cut surfaces. (Used Rustlick WS-5050 oil-water emulsion coolant.) [ ... ] Well, it will be at least a year before I contemplate buying another machine, and we will have a different set of problems by then. O.K. It would be nice if fuel costs fell back down a bit. (Actually, I would *love* for them to go to where they were when I first started driving -- $0.25/Gallon. Three dollars' worth would fill the tank on my MGA. :-) Yeahbut -- that was when a dollar was worth a dollar, not a dime. Hmm ... worse than that, I think, with the gallon of gasoline going from $0.25 to $3.60 or so. It is closer to $0.07/Dollar now, based on fuel costs. I think that was around 1962 or so. Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. Joe Gwinn |
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#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
On 2008-05-12, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-11, Joseph Gwinn wrote: [ ... ] I've never seen the extended multi-slot slide. I had visualized it as a larger tool slid (topmost, dovetailed to the compound, which swivels), but it seems that the extra T-slots or on the back of the cross-slide, and thus cannot swivel. Is there a photo available? Hmm ... Since I don't have one -- I can't photograph it -- but I do have some scans of old sales brochures (1958) which show them. (No, I don't have the originals, and have never seen the originals, just the scans.) First -- try this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/CLAUSING/Clausing5400BrochureAccessoriesOnly-1958.pdf Link failed. I've found some over-aggressive spam filtering which was blocking all connections from your class-B IP block. That is now fixed, and a traceroute to your "NNTP-Posting-Host: " succeeds. [ ... ] Then -- there is this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/CLAUSING/Clausing5400BrochureLatheOnly-1958.pdf page 8 of 9 (PDF view), page 16 dead-tree view shows the lathe with cross-slide and bed turret, and the two individualy -- but no better. I guess that the lever moves the cross-slide in a narrow range, while the cross-slide leadscrew moves it over a wider range. Link also failed. Actually, www.d-and-d.com is not responding. Try them both again. If that fails, let me know and I'll e-mail you both as attachments -- but beware, both are rather large, being PDFs of scans without the benefit of OCR processing first. Note that this one does *not* provide a compound at all. (Not really needed for that kind of work.) But -- there is nothing which need prevent a cross-slide with extra T-slots from having a compound as well. So, the back slots do not swivel. *None* of them do -- though the turret style toolposts can. There is no compound slide either. [ ... ] Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) I just disassembled and cleaned the cotter that clamps the tailstock. The spooge had pinned one half of the cotter in place, and it took a prybar to free it. O.K. You have the lever to lock the tailstock in place along the bed? Mine is missing, and I have to use a nut and wrench to lock it. [ ... ] It doesn't take much -- and given enough time, the hold-down plates would wear in a matching pattern, which would control straight lift, but which would allow the rocking towards the headstock and tailstock. Yes. Tests are in order. Absolutely. Tests performed. The carriage bottom is not boat-hull shaped, and the carriage does not rock. However, there is some wear on the bed ways near the headstock, judging by the variation between carriage and headstock way as the carriage is cranked back and forth. The max excursion is ~0.005" near the headstock. O.K. Not enough to make much difference in workpiece diameter -- unless you are working on something under 0.0625" diameter. :-) I also put a 3-foot length of 0.75" diameter rod in the boring-bar toolholder and applied force up and down by hand, with the lathe stopped and quiet. This was very instructive. One could see and feel the toolslide (atop the compound) tilting, with most of the action being in the compound slide dovetail. Tightened toolslide gibs. Much better. Also some motion in the cross-slide dovetail; tightened gibs. It's amazing just how tight these slideways need to be. One could also hear the oil being slurped in and out in the gap between carriage and bed way. Oops! However, after all that tightening, I was able to use the 0.206" wide tool upsidedown with lathe in reverse to peel off very thin 1018 steel chips, down to 0.0005" after sharpening the toolbit. Did this under power feed, yielding a very uniform and continuous chip ~0.002" thick by 0.206" wide, leaving very shiney cut surfaces. (Used Rustlick WS-5050 oil-water emulsion coolant.) O.K. That sounds good. [ ... ] Yeahbut -- that was when a dollar was worth a dollar, not a dime. Hmm ... worse than that, I think, with the gallon of gasoline going from $0.25 to $3.60 or so. It is closer to $0.07/Dollar now, based on fuel costs. I think that was around 1962 or so. Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. And oil scarcity the rest. As I said -- I was basing it purely on the relative costs of fuel. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-12, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-11, Joseph Gwinn wrote: [ ... ] I've never seen the extended multi-slot slide. I had visualized it as a larger tool slid (topmost, dovetailed to the compound, which swivels), but it seems that the extra T-slots or on the back of the cross-slide, and thus cannot swivel. Is there a photo available? Hmm ... Since I don't have one -- I can't photograph it -- but I do have some scans of old sales brochures (1958) which show them. (No, I don't have the originals, and have never seen the originals, just the scans.) First -- try this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...chureAccessori esOnly-1958.pdf Link failed. I've found some over-aggressive spam filtering which was blocking all connections from your class-B IP block. That is now fixed, and a traceroute to your "NNTP-Posting-Host: " succeeds. So, I've fallen into bad company ... [ ... ] Then -- there is this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...chureLatheOnly -1958.pdf page 8 of 9 (PDF view), page 16 dead-tree view shows the lathe with cross-slide and bed turret, and the two individualy -- but no better. I guess that the lever moves the cross-slide in a narrow range, while the cross-slide leadscrew moves it over a wider range. Link also failed. Actually, www.d-and-d.com is not responding. Try them both again. If that fails, let me know and I'll e-mail you both as attachments -- but beware, both are rather large, being PDFs of scans without the benefit of OCR processing first. Got them this time. I have nothing like this, and there would be no place to put the Aloris. I had visualized it as a longer cross-slide, with T-slot at the back and a compound in front. Note that this one does *not* provide a compound at all. (Not really needed for that kind of work.) But -- there is nothing which need prevent a cross-slide with extra T-slots from having a compound as well. So, the back slots do not swivel. *None* of them do -- though the turret style toolposts can. There is no compound slide either. OK. [ ... ] Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) Actually, that's too gentle. Methylene Chloride. I just disassembled and cleaned the cotter that clamps the tailstock. The spooge had pinned one half of the cotter in place, and it took a prybar to free it. O.K. You have the lever to lock the tailstock in place along the bed? Mine is missing, and I have to use a nut and wrench to lock it. I do have the lever. The tailstock appears to be complete. What I discovered yesterday is that the steady rest that came with the lathe does not belong with the lathe, although it sort-of fits. The giveaway was that stock held between centers was not centered in the opening. Then, close inspection yielded that the V-groove in the rest was a wider angle (90 degrees?) than the V-ridge (60 degrees?) in the bed that this groove was supposed to mate with. I wonder what it is supposed to fit. Perhaps Southbend? [ ... ] It doesn't take much -- and given enough time, the hold-down plates would wear in a matching pattern, which would control straight lift, but which would allow the rocking towards the headstock and tailstock. Yes. Tests are in order. Absolutely. Tests performed. The carriage bottom is not boat-hull shaped, and the carriage does not rock. However, there is some wear on the bed ways near the headstock, judging by the variation between carriage and headstock way as the carriage is cranked back and forth. The max excursion is ~0.005" near the headstock. O.K. Not enough to make much difference in workpiece diameter -- unless you are working on something under 0.0625" diameter. :-) I also put a 3-foot length of 0.75" diameter rod in the boring-bar toolholder and applied force up and down by hand, with the lathe stopped and quiet. This was very instructive. One could see and feel the toolslide (atop the compound) tilting, with most of the action being in the compound slide dovetail. Tightened toolslide gibs. Much better. Also some motion in the cross-slide dovetail; tightened gibs. It's amazing just how tight these slideways need to be. One could also hear the oil being slurped in and out in the gap between carriage and bed way. Oops! However, after all that tightening, I was able to use the 0.206" wide tool upsidedown with lathe in reverse to peel off very thin 1018 steel chips, down to 0.0005" after sharpening the toolbit. Did this under power feed, yielding a very uniform and continuous chip ~0.002" thick by 0.206" wide, leaving very shiney cut surfaces. (Used Rustlick WS-5050 oil-water emulsion coolant.) O.K. That sounds good. I noticed something interesting on page 9 of 9 of the lathe-only brochure you provided: Test 14 requires chatter-free cutting of a 1.5" diameter mild steel bar at "high speed" with cut depth of 0.125" and a feed of 0.0025" per turn. This for a 6300-series lathe. What do the 6300 lathes weigh? I will have to see how close I can get, although I did manage 0.060" depth long ago, before the tightening exercises. [ ... ] Yeahbut -- that was when a dollar was worth a dollar, not a dime. Hmm ... worse than that, I think, with the gallon of gasoline going from $0.25 to $3.60 or so. It is closer to $0.07/Dollar now, based on fuel costs. I think that was around 1962 or so. Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. And oil scarcity the rest. As I said -- I was basing it purely on the relative costs of fuel. China awakens. Joe Gwinn |
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#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
the links work.
I suspect that there was a server down for backup or whatnot. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-11, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Yes -- and you could make a rear-mounted toolpost whose sole purpose is to mount a parting tool, so it does not have the two [ ... ] Of course -- you would want a cross-slide which had rear T-slots to do it properly. That's the problem. I have the ordinary one-slot tool slide, and it does not have the reach to allow use of rear parting tools. By "tool slide" I'm used to reading that as the slide on the compound, not the cross-slide. The compound is not involved here -- just a cross-slide with an extra T-slot or two along its length, including at least one at the back. And the standard cross-slide (or at least mine) does not have a straight T-slot at all -- just a circular one around the stud on which the compound pivots. I've never seen the extended multi-slot slide. I had visualized it as a larger tool slid (topmost, dovetailed to the compound, which swivels), but it seems that the extra T-slots or on the back of the cross-slide, and thus cannot swivel. Is there a photo available? Hmm ... Since I don't have one -- I can't photograph it -- but I do have some scans of old sales brochures (1958) which show them. (No, I don't have the originals, and have never seen the originals, just the scans.) First -- try this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/CLAUSING/Clausing5400BrochureAccessoriesOnly-1958.pdf Link failed. look in page 26 (PDF sees it as page 5 of 6) and you can see my bed turret at the top of the same page, and the turret bed (carriage) stop near the bottom of the same page, and the taper attachments on the last page. Then -- there is this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/CLAUSING/Clausing5400BrochureLatheOnly-1958.pdf page 8 of 9 (PDF view), page 16 dead-tree view shows the lathe with cross-slide and bed turret, and the two individualy -- but no better. I guess that the lever moves the cross-slide in a narrow range, while the cross-slide leadscrew moves it over a wider range. Link also failed. Actually, www.d-and-d.com is not responding. Note that this one does *not* provide a compound at all. (Not really needed for that kind of work.) But -- there is nothing which need prevent a cross-slide with extra T-slots from having a compound as well. So, the back slots do not swivel. [ ... ] The felt is very hard, and does not squish. I think it is solidified with hardened cutting oil. I bet I have the original felts all around. Ouch! New felts needed for sure. If it is hard, it could pick up abrasives and abrade the flame-hardened ways. Yep. Acetone wasn't enough to soften the felts. To be replaced. Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. I just disassembled and cleaned the cotter that clamps the tailstock. The spooge had pinned one half of the cotter in place, and it took a prybar to free it. [ ... ] Hmm. I don't think that this is a significant problem, but I'll test for this. The simplest approach is to mount a dial indicator on the carriage with the indicator probe tip riding the the flat tailstock way, and crank the carriage back and forth (to test the bed ways) and torque the carriage for-and-aft with a bar in a boring bar holder (to see if the bottom of the carriage is shaped like a boat hull). I would think that the rocking would be constrained by the hold-down plates. It doesn't take much -- and given enough time, the hold-down plates would wear in a matching pattern, which would control straight lift, but which would allow the rocking towards the headstock and tailstock. Yes. Tests are in order. Absolutely. Tests performed. The carriage bottom is not boat-hull shaped, and the carriage does not rock. However, there is some wear on the bed ways near the headstock, judging by the variation between carriage and headstock way as the carriage is cranked back and forth. The max excursion is ~0.005" near the headstock. I also put a 3-foot length of 0.75" diameter rod in the boring-bar toolholder and applied force up and down by hand, with the lathe stopped and quiet. This was very instructive. One could see and feel the toolslide (atop the compound) tilting, with most of the action being in the compound slide dovetail. Tightened toolslide gibs. Much better. Also some motion in the cross-slide dovetail; tightened gibs. It's amazing just how tight these slideways need to be. One could also hear the oil being slurped in and out in the gap between carriage and bed way. However, after all that tightening, I was able to use the 0.206" wide tool upsidedown with lathe in reverse to peel off very thin 1018 steel chips, down to 0.0005" after sharpening the toolbit. Did this under power feed, yielding a very uniform and continuous chip ~0.002" thick by 0.206" wide, leaving very shiney cut surfaces. (Used Rustlick WS-5050 oil-water emulsion coolant.) [ ... ] Well, it will be at least a year before I contemplate buying another machine, and we will have a different set of problems by then. O.K. It would be nice if fuel costs fell back down a bit. (Actually, I would *love* for them to go to where they were when I first started driving -- $0.25/Gallon. Three dollars' worth would fill the tank on my MGA. :-) Yeahbut -- that was when a dollar was worth a dollar, not a dime. Hmm ... worse than that, I think, with the gallon of gasoline going from $0.25 to $3.60 or so. It is closer to $0.07/Dollar now, based on fuel costs. I think that was around 1962 or so. Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. Joe Gwinn ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
I've trimmed the "References: " back to two again, and moved the rest
to "X-references: " which will be dropped by your newsreader. On 2008-05-13, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-12, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] First -- try this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...chureAccessori esOnly-1958.pdf Link failed. I've found some over-aggressive spam filtering which was blocking all connections from your class-B IP block. That is now fixed, and a traceroute to your "NNTP-Posting-Host: " succeeds. So, I've fallen into bad company ... So has most of the world. :-) I'm not sure why that particular IP block was blocked. [ ... ] Try them both again. If that fails, let me know and I'll e-mail you both as attachments -- but beware, both are rather large, being PDFs of scans without the benefit of OCR processing first. Got them this time. I have nothing like this, and there would be no place to put the Aloris. I had visualized it as a longer cross-slide, with T-slot at the back and a compound in front. Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. [ ... ] Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) Actually, that's too gentle. Methylene Chloride. I was going with solvents which I have used in the past. I never *had* the Methylene Chloride. I just disassembled and cleaned the cotter that clamps the tailstock. The spooge had pinned one half of the cotter in place, and it took a prybar to free it. O.K. You have the lever to lock the tailstock in place along the bed? Mine is missing, and I have to use a nut and wrench to lock it. I do have the lever. The tailstock appears to be complete. Great. I wish that I did. What I discovered yesterday is that the steady rest that came with the lathe does not belong with the lathe, although it sort-of fits. The giveaway was that stock held between centers was not centered in the opening. Then, close inspection yielded that the V-groove in the rest was a wider angle (90 degrees?) than the V-ridge (60 degrees?) in the bed that this groove was supposed to mate with. I wonder what it is supposed to fit. Perhaps Southbend? Likely. [ ... ] However, after all that tightening, I was able to use the 0.206" wide tool upsidedown with lathe in reverse to peel off very thin 1018 steel chips, down to 0.0005" after sharpening the toolbit. Did this under power feed, yielding a very uniform and continuous chip ~0.002" thick by 0.206" wide, leaving very shiney cut surfaces. (Used Rustlick WS-5050 oil-water emulsion coolant.) O.K. That sounds good. I noticed something interesting on page 9 of 9 of the lathe-only brochure you provided: Test 14 requires chatter-free cutting of a 1.5" diameter mild steel bar at "high speed" with cut depth of 0.125" and a feed of 0.0025" per turn. This for a 6300-series lathe. What do the 6300 lathes weigh? Hmm ... I think that the 6300 would be a lot like your 6900, except that it would have a 1-1/2x8 spindle, not the later 2-1/4x8 of my original 5418 or the L-00 of your machine or (now) mine. I will have to see how close I can get, although I did manage 0.060" depth long ago, before the tightening exercises. O.K. You can probably make it now. [ ... ] Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. And oil scarcity the rest. As I said -- I was basing it purely on the relative costs of fuel. China awakens. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
On 2008-05-13, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
the links work. I suspect that there was a server down for backup or whatnot. Nope -- the two machines are each other's backups. No shutdown for backups. But it was over-aggressive IP blocking from either spam floods or attempts to log into my sshd ports -- resulting in a class-B block of IPs being blocked. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
Don -
Not your servers - but the dozen or so between. Sometimes a local server (block or two away) is overloaded with movies and games or has other issues. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ DoN. Nichols wrote: On 2008-05-13, Martin H. Eastburn wrote: the links work. I suspect that there was a server down for backup or whatnot. Nope -- the two machines are each other's backups. No shutdown for backups. But it was over-aggressive IP blocking from either spam floods or attempts to log into my sshd ports -- resulting in a class-B block of IPs being blocked. Enjoy, DoN. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
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#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
On 2008-05-14, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
Don - Not your servers - but the dozen or so between. Sometimes a local server (block or two away) is overloaded with movies and games or has other issues. O.K. I was taking the term to be web servers -- the actual machines hosting the web pages -- and those are *my* machines. And since I have a T1 feed -- it is unlikely to be something that close -- I don't share bandwidth with anything else until I get to *my* ISP, who just provides connectivity. But as it turned out (and I think I mentioned before), it *was* my sever -- applying a too-aggressive spamblocking (which *I* was applying) on too wide an IP range. That blocking has now been turned off. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: I've trimmed the "References: " back to two again, and moved the rest to "X-references: " which will be dropped by your newsreader. OK. On 2008-05-13, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-12, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] First -- try this one: http://www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/...BrochureAccess oriesOnly-1958.pdf Link failed. I've found some over-aggressive spam filtering which was blocking all connections from your class-B IP block. That is now fixed, and a traceroute to your "NNTP-Posting-Host: " succeeds. So, I've fallen into bad company ... So has most of the world. :-) I'm not sure why that particular IP block was blocked. Comcast has millions of customers. At least a tenth probably own infected Windows machines. [ ... ] Try them both again. If that fails, let me know and I'll e-mail you both as attachments -- but beware, both are rather large, being PDFs of scans without the benefit of OCR processing first. Got them this time. I have nothing like this, and there would be no place to put the Aloris. I had visualized it as a longer cross-slide, with T-slot at the back and a compound in front. Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. I must say that I'm less tempted now. [ ... ] Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) Actually, that's too gentle. Methylene Chloride. I was going with solvents which I have used in the past. I never *had* the Methylene Chloride. It's the active ingredient of many paint-stripper formulas. I just disassembled and cleaned the cotter that clamps the tailstock. The spooge had pinned one half of the cotter in place, and it took a prybar to free it. O.K. You have the lever to lock the tailstock in place along the bed? Mine is missing, and I have to use a nut and wrench to lock it. I do have the lever. The tailstock appears to be complete. Great. I wish that I did. I see tailstocks offered all the time, and not for large dollars. Even a botched one could contribute a lever arm. What I discovered yesterday is that the steady rest that came with the lathe does not belong with the lathe, although it sort-of fits. The giveaway was that stock held between centers was not centered in the opening. Then, close inspection yielded that the V-groove in the rest was a wider angle (90 degrees?) than the V-ridge (60 degrees?) in the bed that this groove was supposed to mate with. I wonder what it is supposed to fit. Perhaps Southbend? Likely. I'll check this. I may sell the steady rest I have and buy the correct one. [ ... ] I noticed something interesting on page 9 of 9 of the lathe-only brochure you provided: Test 14 requires chatter-free cutting of a 1.5" diameter mild steel bar at "high speed" with cut depth of 0.125" and a feed of 0.0025" per turn. This for a 6300-series lathe. What do the 6300 lathes weigh? Hmm ... I think that the 6300 would be a lot like your 6900, except that it would have a 1-1/2x8 spindle, not the later 2-1/4x8 of my original 5418 or the L-00 of your machine or (now) mine. I have a 5900-series machine, but I don't know how it differs from 6900-series machines. I would assume that the 6300 was a top-of-line machine in its day. I will have to see how close I can get, although I did manage 0.060" depth long ago, before the tightening exercises. O.K. You can probably make it now. Will be tried. As for parting off from the front with lathe in reverse, I was trolling the ISCAR website, and the SGFH, SGIH, and TGFH 19-2 blades appear to be mirror symmetrical, and so could be turned upsidedown in a standard holder, it appears. I may call ISCAR to verify this. I've never seen any of these blades, but it seems that the top and bottom edges are oblique "knife" edges, each having a 150-degree included angle. [ ... ] Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. And oil scarcity the rest. As I said -- I was basing it purely on the relative costs of fuel. China awakens. :-) I've read far too many articles wringing their hands about the rise of Chinese {military power, economic power, influence, commodity demand, etc}. What is amazing is not that China finally "stood up", but that China stayed out of the world for so long. It was always their choice, imposed by nobody. China has always* been capitalist, but has never been democratic. * For at least 5,000 years, minus an embarrassing but insignificant deviation during the reign of Mao, now remedied. And "stood up" has deep resonance in China. A classic socialist-realist propaganda poster from the days of Mao shows a huge but roughly clad man finally standing up. This represented the Chinese peasantry finally asserting itself, throwing off the oppressors' boot - standing up. And it did finally happen, but not exactly according to Mao's plan. Joe Gwinn |
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#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
On 2008-05-14, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: I've trimmed the "References: " back to two again, and moved the rest to "X-references: " which will be dropped by your newsreader. OK. And I'll try to remember to do it every so often. [ ... ] I've found some over-aggressive spam filtering which was blocking all connections from your class-B IP block. That is now fixed, and a traceroute to your "NNTP-Posting-Host: " succeeds. So, I've fallen into bad company ... So has most of the world. :-) I'm not sure why that particular IP block was blocked. Comcast has millions of customers. At least a tenth probably own infected Windows machines. At least! :-) [ ... ] Got them this time. I have nothing like this, and there would be no place to put the Aloris. I had visualized it as a longer cross-slide, with T-slot at the back and a compound in front. Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. I must say that I'm less tempted now. Even with the full circle T-slot for a proper compound? All you need to do is to talk MLA into making (and offering) a slightly larger casting, then machine it properly. [ ... ] Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) Actually, that's too gentle. Methylene Chloride. I was going with solvents which I have used in the past. I never *had* the Methylene Chloride. It's the active ingredient of many paint-stripper formulas. Nasty stuff, then. For that matter, I'll bet that Pyradine would do it too. I friend in college (with no sense of smell) used to use it against others who had a sense of smell, and while watching him filling a small vial in the open dorm window, I saw a drop escape. By they time my eyes hat caught up with it, it had hit the sill and stripped away a circle of paint about 1/4" to 5/16" in diameter. But the stuff *stinks*, so I would not keep it around -- since I *do* have a sense of smell. :-) [ ... ] I do have the lever. The tailstock appears to be complete. Great. I wish that I did. I see tailstocks offered all the time, and not for large dollars. Even a botched one could contribute a lever arm. Hmm ... it might be worth while going back to eBay and watching for that. I got the current tailstock from eBay (without the lever), and before that I was using an older Clausing tailstock with a MT-2 socket instead of the proper MT-3 socket. That also had no lever. At least it came with the locking plate and bolt, which the larger one did not, so I was able to transfer the locking plate to the larger one. Both did have proper center height at least. Mine came without a tailstock, because it came with the bed turret instead. Since I use it both ways from time to time, I need both, with the standard tailstock spending more of the time on the bed. What I discovered yesterday is that the steady rest that came with the lathe does not belong with the lathe, although it sort-of fits. The giveaway was that stock held between centers was not centered in the opening. Then, close inspection yielded that the V-groove in the rest was a wider angle (90 degrees?) than the V-ridge (60 degrees?) in the bed that this groove was supposed to mate with. I wonder what it is supposed to fit. Perhaps Southbend? Likely. I'll check this. I may sell the steady rest I have and buy the correct one. And do you have a proper traveling steady? The one for this (unlike the South Bend ones) bolts down to the flat tops of the left arms of the carriage. Mine had a pair of studs already threaded in there to accept the steady. [ ... ] I noticed something interesting on page 9 of 9 of the lathe-only brochure you provided: Test 14 requires chatter-free cutting of a 1.5" diameter mild steel bar at "high speed" with cut depth of 0.125" and a feed of 0.0025" per turn. This for a 6300-series lathe. What do the 6300 lathes weigh? Hmm ... I think that the 6300 would be a lot like your 6900, except that it would have a 1-1/2x8 spindle, not the later 2-1/4x8 of my original 5418 or the L-00 of your machine or (now) mine. I have a 5900-series machine, but I don't know how it differs from 6900-series machines. I would assume that the 6300 was a top-of-line machine in its day. O.K. I think that the 6900 might have been a gearhead lathe, and that could drive more than a belt-driven lathe. After a while I get the numbers mixed up. I will have to see how close I can get, although I did manage 0.060" depth long ago, before the tightening exercises. O.K. You can probably make it now. Will be tried. As for parting off from the front with lathe in reverse, I was trolling the ISCAR website, and the SGFH, SGIH, and TGFH 19-2 blades appear to be mirror symmetrical, and so could be turned upsidedown in a standard holder, it appears. I may call ISCAR to verify this. I've never seen any of these blades, but it seems that the top and bottom edges are oblique "knife" edges, each having a 150-degree included angle. O.K. I have not tried any of this because I have no problems with parting off -- at least until I get to a 6" diameter workpiece, where the blade just isn't long enough -- or isn't strong enough when extended that far. [ ... ] Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. And oil scarcity the rest. As I said -- I was basing it purely on the relative costs of fuel. China awakens. :-) I've read far too many articles wringing their hands about the rise of Chinese {military power, economic power, influence, commodity demand, etc}. I stay clear of such discussions in rec.crafts.metalworking, because they are usually way off topic -- and I don't want to encourage off-topic political discussions. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-14, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Got them this time. I have nothing like this, and there would be no place to put the Aloris. I had visualized it as a longer cross-slide, with T-slot at the back and a compound in front. Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. I must say that I'm less tempted now. Even with the full circle T-slot for a proper compound? All you need to do is to talk MLA into making (and offering) a slightly larger casting, then machine it properly. Sounds too much like work. [ ... ] Absolutely. Note that the proper felt is rather dense, but it still can be squished a bit at least. I suppose if I soaked the felt in acetone for a week the spooge would dissolve. Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) Actually, that's too gentle. Methylene Chloride. I was going with solvents which I have used in the past. I never *had* the Methylene Chloride. It's the active ingredient of many paint-stripper formulas. Nasty stuff, then. Well, I would not advise drinking it, or breathing too much of it, but it is used by millions of people without difficulty. For that matter, I'll bet that Pyradine would do it too. I friend in college (with no sense of smell) used to use it against others who had a sense of smell, and while watching him filling a small vial in the open dorm window, I saw a drop escape. By they time my eyes hat caught up with it, it had hit the sill and stripped away a circle of paint about 1/4" to 5/16" in diameter. But the stuff *stinks*, so I would not keep it around -- since I *do* have a sense of smell. :-) I've heard of this, but I didn't know anybody immune to the smell. [ ... ] I do have the lever. The tailstock appears to be complete. Great. I wish that I did. I see tailstocks offered all the time, and not for large dollars. Even a botched one could contribute a lever arm. Hmm ... it might be worth while going back to eBay and watching for that. I got the current tailstock from eBay (without the lever), and before that I was using an older Clausing tailstock with a MT-2 socket instead of the proper MT-3 socket. That also had no lever. At least it came with the locking plate and bolt, which the larger one did not, so I was able to transfer the locking plate to the larger one. Both did have proper center height at least. Mine came without a tailstock, because it came with the bed turret instead. Since I use it both ways from time to time, I need both, with the standard tailstock spending more of the time on the bed. I think I recall that Plaza Machinery had some tailstocks. What I discovered yesterday is that the steady rest that came with the lathe does not belong with the lathe, although it sort-of fits. The giveaway was that stock held between centers was not centered in the opening. Then, close inspection yielded that the V-groove in the rest was a wider angle (90 degrees?) than the V-ridge (60 degrees?) in the bed that this groove was supposed to mate with. I wonder what it is supposed to fit. Perhaps Southbend? Likely. I'll check this. I may sell the steady rest I have and buy the correct one. And do you have a proper traveling steady? The one for this (unlike the South Bend ones) bolts down to the flat tops of the left arms of the carriage. Mine had a pair of studs already threaded in there to accept the steady. I did not get a follower rest, but I'm looking for one. The threaded holes to bolt the follower rest are there. I noticed that the left rear threaded hole kept filling up with emulsion coolant. It was in line with a perpendicular threaded hole in the back of the carriage, so I drilled a 0.125" diameter passage from one to the other, so the top hole can drain. [ ... ] I noticed something interesting on page 9 of 9 of the lathe-only brochure you provided: Test 14 requires chatter-free cutting of a 1.5" diameter mild steel bar at "high speed" with cut depth of 0.125" and a feed of 0.0025" per turn. This for a 6300-series lathe. What do the 6300 lathes weigh? Hmm ... I think that the 6300 would be a lot like your 6900, except that it would have a 1-1/2x8 spindle, not the later 2-1/4x8 of my original 5418 or the L-00 of your machine or (now) mine. I have a 5900-series machine, but I don't know how it differs from 6900-series machines. I would assume that the 6300 was a top-of-line machine in its day. O.K. I think that the 6900 might have been a gearhead lathe, and that could drive more than a belt-driven lathe. After a while I get the numbers mixed up. There is a listing somewhere. The 5900 is gear-head as well, so perhaps they are comparable enough for the same test to apply to both. I will have to see how close I can get, although I did manage 0.060" depth long ago, before the tightening exercises. O.K. You can probably make it now. Will be tried. As for parting off from the front with lathe in reverse, I was trolling the ISCAR website, and the SGFH, SGIH, and TGFH 19-2 blades appear to be mirror symmetrical, and so could be turned upsidedown in a standard holder, it appears. I may call ISCAR to verify this. I've never seen any of these blades, but it seems that the top and bottom edges are oblique "knife" edges, each having a 150-degree included angle. O.K. I have not tried any of this because I have no problems with parting off -- at least until I get to a 6" diameter workpiece, where the blade just isn't long enough -- or isn't strong enough when extended that far. Well, the ISCAR folk are chicken - they spec the SGIH 19-2 blade for 38-40 mm diameter max in steel. For 6" (153mm) diameter, a far larger blade would be used. I would assume that ISCAR is sizing things for use in automated production, and that one can manually do larger if one is careful. Some BXA holders will accept a SGIH 26-2 blade, which will do up to 50 mm diameter, but has the same groove width (2 mm). [ ... ] Well, $0.25 per gallon in 1962 is the same as $1.77 today, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics" Inflation Calculator: http://www.bls.gov/. So, inflation accounts for only about one half of the current price. And oil scarcity the rest. As I said -- I was basing it purely on the relative costs of fuel. China awakens. :-) I've read far too many articles wringing their hands about the rise of Chinese {military power, economic power, influence, commodity demand, etc}. I stay clear of such discussions in rec.crafts.metalworking, because they are usually way off topic -- and I don't want to encourage off-topic political discussions. We are beleaguered. But sometimes it's fun, at least until the thread turns nasty. Joe Gwinn |
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#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
On 2008-05-15, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-14, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. I must say that I'm less tempted now. Even with the full circle T-slot for a proper compound? All you need to do is to talk MLA into making (and offering) a slightly larger casting, then machine it properly. Sounds too much like work. Something to be proud of -- a part of the machine which you have made yourself to extend its capabilities. :-) [ ... ] Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) Actually, that's too gentle. Methylene Chloride. I was going with solvents which I have used in the past. I never *had* the Methylene Chloride. It's the active ingredient of many paint-stripper formulas. Nasty stuff, then. Well, I would not advise drinking it, or breathing too much of it, but it is used by millions of people without difficulty. IIRC, that was what was used in a controlled fume hood to strip epoxy from potted components to allow failure analysis. Of course it also pulled the epoxy out of the G-10 printed circuit board (leaving a loose mat of glass fibers), and took the bakelite and color codes off of resistors. At least the transistors were in metal cans, and the diodes were glass housed. :-) But they were *very* careful with that stripper. For that matter, I'll bet that Pyradine would do it too. I friend in college (with no sense of smell) used to use it against others who had a sense of smell, and while watching him filling a small vial in the open dorm window, I saw a drop escape. By they time my eyes hat caught up with it, it had hit the sill and stripped away a circle of paint about 1/4" to 5/16" in diameter. But the stuff *stinks*, so I would not keep it around -- since I *do* have a sense of smell. :-) I've heard of this, but I didn't know anybody immune to the smell. I was able to stand it enough to watch him working with it in the open window -- but was never tempted to have any of my own. :-) [ ... ] I see tailstocks offered all the time, and not for large dollars. Even a botched one could contribute a lever arm. Hmm ... it might be worth while going back to eBay and watching for that. I got the current tailstock from eBay (without the lever), and before that I was using an older Clausing tailstock with a MT-2 socket instead of the proper MT-3 socket. That also had no lever. At least it came with the locking plate and bolt, which the larger one did not, so I was able to transfer the locking plate to the larger one. Both did have proper center height at least. Mine came without a tailstock, because it came with the bed turret instead. Since I use it both ways from time to time, I need both, with the standard tailstock spending more of the time on the bed. I think I recall that Plaza Machinery had some tailstocks. Are they an eBay vendor? if not do you have the URL for their website? [ ... ] I wonder what it is supposed to fit. Perhaps Southbend? Likely. I'll check this. I may sell the steady rest I have and buy the correct one. And do you have a proper traveling steady? The one for this (unlike the South Bend ones) bolts down to the flat tops of the left arms of the carriage. Mine had a pair of studs already threaded in there to accept the steady. I did not get a follower rest, but I'm looking for one. The threaded holes to bolt the follower rest are there. I noticed that the left rear threaded hole kept filling up with emulsion coolant. It was in line with a perpendicular threaded hole in the back of the carriage, so I drilled a 0.125" diameter passage from one to the other, so the top hole can drain. Oh -- I just keep a pair of studs in mine to keep the swarf from accumulating in there. That other threaded hole may be part of the mouting for the taper turning attachment. [ ... ] O.K. I think that the 6900 might have been a gearhead lathe, and that could drive more than a belt-driven lathe. After a while I get the numbers mixed up. There is a listing somewhere. The 5900 is gear-head as well, so perhaps they are comparable enough for the same test to apply to both. O.K. Just one belt to go from the motor to the gearbox, and then everything else in the gearbox? [ ... ] O.K. I have not tried any of this because I have no problems with parting off -- at least until I get to a 6" diameter workpiece, where the blade just isn't long enough -- or isn't strong enough when extended that far. Well, the ISCAR folk are chicken - they spec the SGIH 19-2 blade for 38-40 mm diameter max in steel. For 6" (153mm) diameter, a far larger blade would be used. I would assume that ISCAR is sizing things for use in automated production, and that one can manually do larger if one is careful. Some BXA holders will accept a SGIH 26-2 blade, which will do up to 50 mm diameter, but has the same groove width (2 mm). O.K. [ ... ] I've read far too many articles wringing their hands about the rise of Chinese {military power, economic power, influence, commodity demand, etc}. I stay clear of such discussions in rec.crafts.metalworking, because they are usually way off topic -- and I don't want to encourage off-topic political discussions. We are beleaguered. But sometimes it's fun, at least until the thread turns nasty. I'd rather not be forced to leave (and killfile) a thread which I'm enjoying, so please keep the politics out of this thread. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-15, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-14, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. I must say that I'm less tempted now. Even with the full circle T-slot for a proper compound? All you need to do is to talk MLA into making (and offering) a slightly larger casting, then machine it properly. Sounds too much like work. Something to be proud of -- a part of the machine which you have made yourself to extend its capabilities. :-) For now, the pride will have to be in machine restoration, I think. [ ... ] Hmm ... maybe tricholorethalyine instead? :-) Actually, that's too gentle. Methylene Chloride. I was going with solvents which I have used in the past. I never *had* the Methylene Chloride. It's the active ingredient of many paint-stripper formulas. Nasty stuff, then. Well, I would not advise drinking it, or breathing too much of it, but it is used by millions of people without difficulty. IIRC, that was what was used in a controlled fume hood to strip epoxy from potted components to allow failure analysis. Of course it also pulled the epoxy out of the G-10 printed circuit board (leaving a loose mat of glass fibers), and took the bakelite and color codes off of resistors. At least the transistors were in metal cans, and the diodes were glass housed. :-) But they were *very* careful with that stripper. Oh, yes. I recall hearing of a company that used Methylene Chloride in what amounted to a large pressure cooker (with metal-to-metal seals for sure) to remove potting agents from modules, for failure analysis (and reverse engineering). [ ... ] I see tailstocks offered all the time, and not for large dollars. Even a botched one could contribute a lever arm. Hmm ... it might be worth while going back to eBay and watching for that. I got the current tailstock from eBay (without the lever), and before that I was using an older Clausing tailstock with a MT-2 socket instead of the proper MT-3 socket. That also had no lever. At least it came with the locking plate and bolt, which the larger one did not, so I was able to transfer the locking plate to the larger one. Both did have proper center height at least. Mine came without a tailstock, because it came with the bed turret instead. Since I use it both ways from time to time, I need both, with the standard tailstock spending more of the time on the bed. I think I recall that Plaza Machinery had some tailstocks. Are they an eBay vendor? if not do you have the URL for their website? I don't know if Plaza does eBay, but here is the URL: http://www.plazamachinery.com. Their list of available stuff is a bit oddly organized, so it's best to download the whole pdf and then search the file locally. [ ... ] I wonder what it is supposed to fit. Perhaps Southbend? Likely. I'll check this. I may sell the steady rest I have and buy the correct one. And do you have a proper traveling steady? The one for this (unlike the South Bend ones) bolts down to the flat tops of the left arms of the carriage. Mine had a pair of studs already threaded in there to accept the steady. I did not get a follower rest, but I'm looking for one. The threaded holes to bolt the follower rest are there. I noticed that the left rear threaded hole kept filling up with emulsion coolant. It was in line with a perpendicular threaded hole in the back of the carriage, so I drilled a 0.125" diameter passage from one to the other, so the top hole can drain. Oh -- I just keep a pair of studs in mine to keep the swarf from accumulating in there. I just blow it out every so often, but the little blue pool annoyed me, and made me worry about rusting in dark corners. That other threaded hole may be part of the mounting for the taper turning attachment. Sounds about right to me. [ ... ] O.K. I think that the 6900 might have been a gearhead lathe, and that could drive more than a belt-driven lathe. After a while I get the numbers mixed up. There is a listing somewhere. The 5900 is gear-head as well, so perhaps they are comparable enough for the same test to apply to both. O.K. Just one belt to go from the motor to the gearbox, and then everything else in the gearbox? One big toothed timing belt from variable speed (Reeves) drive to gearbox. This belt is not going to slip. [ ... ] O.K. I have not tried any of this because I have no problems with parting off -- at least until I get to a 6" diameter workpiece, where the blade just isn't long enough -- or isn't strong enough when extended that far. Well, the ISCAR folk are chicken - they spec the SGIH 19-2 blade for 38-40 mm diameter max in steel. For 6" (153mm) diameter, a far larger blade would be used. I would assume that ISCAR is sizing things for use in automated production, and that one can manually do larger if one is careful. Some BXA holders will accept a SGIH 26-2 blade, which will do up to 50 mm diameter, but has the same groove width (2 mm). O.K. I'm still thinking, but it seems to me that holders that accommodate the SGIH 26-x blades are a better choice, because both 19-x and 26-x will hold the 2mm wide inserts, and the 19-x holders are far less stiff. The main advantage of 19-x holders appears to be that one also can use them to hold a P-3 (0.75" high) HSS T-blade. The other issue to think about is how much one must move the blade holder up on the toolpost if one inserts the SGIH blade upsidedown, as planned to allow use in back, or in front with lathe in reverse. [ ... ] I've read far too many articles wringing their hands about the rise of Chinese {military power, economic power, influence, commodity demand, etc}. I stay clear of such discussions in rec.crafts.metalworking, because they are usually way off topic -- and I don't want to encourage off-topic political discussions. We are beleaguered. But sometimes it's fun, at least until the thread turns nasty. I'd rather not be forced to leave (and killfile) a thread which I'm enjoying, so please keep the politics out of this thread. :-) OK. Joe Gwinn |
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#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-16, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. I must say that I'm less tempted now. Even with the full circle T-slot for a proper compound? All you need to do is to talk MLA into making (and offering) a slightly larger casting, then machine it properly. Sounds too much like work. Something to be proud of -- a part of the machine which you have made yourself to extend its capabilities. :-) For now, the pride will have to be in machine restoration, I think. O.K. If I could get an MLA casting the right size for my machine (which would be the right size for yours, too), I would dive into machining it to make a cross-slide with the rear T-slots. [ ... ] Well, I would not advise drinking it, or breathing too much of it, but it is used by millions of people without difficulty. IIRC, that was what was used in a controlled fume hood to strip epoxy from potted components to allow failure analysis. Of course it also pulled the epoxy out of the G-10 printed circuit board (leaving a loose mat of glass fibers), and took the Bakelite and color codes off of resistors. At least the transistors were in metal cans, and the diodes were glass housed. :-) But they were *very* careful with that stripper. Oh, yes. I recall hearing of a company that used Methylene Chloride in what amounted to a large pressure cooker (with metal-to-metal seals for sure) to remove potting agents from modules, for failure analysis (and reverse engineering). O.K. Failure analysis was the purpose that Transitron used back then -- since they had few competitors to analyze anyway. :-) About the only competitor at that time was Texas Instruments -- and while they competed in the actual transistors and diodes, they did not seem to in the potted assemblies. [ ... ] I think I recall that Plaza Machinery had some tailstocks. Are they an eBay vendor? if not do you have the URL for their website? I don't know if Plaza does eBay, but here is the URL: http://www.plazamachinery.com. Their list of available stuff is a bit oddly organized, so it's best to download the whole pdf and then search the file locally. O.K. I've done the download (and am thankful that they have PDF in addition to ".DOC"), and I've now sent off an e-mail to see what he might be able to turn up. [ ... ] I did not get a follower rest, but I'm looking for one. The threaded holes to bolt the follower rest are there. I noticed that the left rear threaded hole kept filling up with emulsion coolant. It was in line with a perpendicular threaded hole in the back of the carriage, so I drilled a 0.125" diameter passage from one to the other, so the top hole can drain. Oh -- I just keep a pair of studs in mine to keep the swarf from accumulating in there. I just blow it out every so often, but the little blue pool annoyed me, and made me worry about rusting in dark corners. It takes a lot of picking to get the swarf out, so it is easier to keep it from getting in in the first place. :-) That other threaded hole may be part of the mounting for the taper turning attachment. Sounds about right to me. I was surprised to find the holes already in place and tapped for the taper attachment on my machine. [ ... ] There is a listing somewhere. The 5900 is gear-head as well, so perhaps they are comparable enough for the same test to apply to both. O.K. Just one belt to go from the motor to the gearbox, and then everything else in the gearbox? One big toothed timing belt from variable speed (Reeves) drive to gearbox. This belt is not going to slip. O.K. That is the one for which my metric threading gear set was made, based on the photos in the instruction sheet. [ ... ] Some BXA holders will accept a SGIH 26-2 blade, which will do up to 50 mm diameter, but has the same groove width (2 mm). O.K. I'm still thinking, but it seems to me that holders that accommodate the SGIH 26-x blades are a better choice, because both 19-x and 26-x will hold the 2mm wide inserts, and the 19-x holders are far less stiff. The main advantage of 19-x holders appears to be that one also can use them to hold a P-3 (0.75" high) HSS T-blade. The other issue to think about is how much one must move the blade holder up on the toolpost if one inserts the SGIH blade upsidedown, as planned to allow use in back, or in front with lathe in reverse. Indeed. you *might* have to make an over-tall holder to deal with that problem. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-16, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Actually -- there *are* some like that. MLA (Metal Lathe Associates) makes a casting for the South Bend lathes to make such a cross-slide. I would have made one -- except that it is just a bit too small for my machine. I must say that I'm less tempted now. Even with the full circle T-slot for a proper compound? All you need to do is to talk MLA into making (and offering) a slightly larger casting, then machine it properly. Sounds too much like work. Something to be proud of -- a part of the machine which you have made yourself to extend its capabilities. :-) For now, the pride will have to be in machine restoration, I think. O.K. If I could get an MLA casting the right size for my machine (which would be the right size for yours, too), I would dive into machining it to make a cross-slide with the rear T-slots. Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. [ ... ] Well, I would not advise drinking it, or breathing too much of it, but it is used by millions of people without difficulty. IIRC, that was what was used in a controlled fume hood to strip epoxy from potted components to allow failure analysis. Of course it also pulled the epoxy out of the G-10 printed circuit board (leaving a loose mat of glass fibers), and took the Bakelite and color codes off of resistors. At least the transistors were in metal cans, and the diodes were glass housed. :-) But they were *very* careful with that stripper. Oh, yes. I recall hearing of a company that used Methylene Chloride in what amounted to a large pressure cooker (with metal-to-metal seals for sure) to remove potting agents from modules, for failure analysis (and reverse engineering). O.K. Failure analysis was the purpose that Transitron used back then -- since they had few competitors to analyze anyway. :-) About the only competitor at that time was Texas Instruments -- and while they competed in the actual transistors and diodes, they did not seem to in the potted assemblies. I recall Transitron. There was another depotting company that advertised their ability to strip the potting agent without dissolving the plastic ICs, but they wouldn't say how they did this aside from mumbling about used of heat, pressure, and a bunch of well chosen solvents, some far too dangerous for ordinary companies to risk using, as the story went. I think their main business was reverse engineering. [ ... ] I think I recall that Plaza Machinery had some tailstocks. Are they an eBay vendor? if not do you have the URL for their website? I don't know if Plaza does eBay, but here is the URL: http://www.plazamachinery.com. Their list of available stuff is a bit oddly organized, so it's best to download the whole pdf and then search the file locally. O.K. I've done the download (and am thankful that they have PDF in addition to ".DOC"), and I've now sent off an e-mail to see what he might be able to turn up. Good luck. I may drive up there this summer. It's about three hours drive from my home. The wife would like to see the area, enough to tolerate the resulting crate of greasy iron treasures being dragged home. [ ... ] I did not get a follower rest, but I'm looking for one. The threaded holes to bolt the follower rest are there. I noticed that the left rear threaded hole kept filling up with emulsion coolant. It was in line with a perpendicular threaded hole in the back of the carriage, so I drilled a 0.125" diameter passage from one to the other, so the top hole can drain. Oh -- I just keep a pair of studs in mine to keep the swarf from accumulating in there. I just blow it out every so often, but the little blue pool annoyed me, and made me worry about rusting in dark corners. It takes a lot of picking to get the swarf out, so it is easier to keep it from getting in in the first place. :-) I don't use a pick, I use a thin needle tip on the blowoff gun. Releasing the air from the bottom of the hole usually blows it clean. But be careful, as it's easy to blow swarf into the eyes this way. I loosely tie a shop towel around the gun, to intercept the flying swarf and muck. I've also seen people use a long thin drywall screw to pull swarf from deep holes, and one can buy extractors that appear to be a headless drywall screw mounted in an aluminum handle. [ ... ] There is a listing somewhere. The 5900 is gear-head as well, so perhaps they are comparable enough for the same test to apply to both. O.K. Just one belt to go from the motor to the gearbox, and then everything else in the gearbox? One big toothed timing belt from variable speed (Reeves) drive to gearbox. This belt is not going to slip. O.K. That is the one for which my metric threading gear set was made, based on the photos in the instruction sheet. Metric threading kit. That might be more useful than a taper attachment. It didn't take long from me to encounter the need to make a metric thread (the arbor nuts for the vibrating Ryobi grinder). How often do the metric kits come up for sale, and for what kinds of prices? [ ... ] Some BXA holders will accept a SGIH 26-2 blade, which will do up to 50 mm diameter, but has the same groove width (2 mm). O.K. I'm still thinking, but it seems to me that holders that accommodate the SGIH 26-x blades are a better choice, because both 19-x and 26-x will hold the 2mm wide inserts, and the 19-x holders are far less stiff. The main advantage of 19-x holders appears to be that one also can use them to hold a P-3 (0.75" high) HSS T-blade. The other issue to think about is how much one must move the blade holder up on the toolpost if one inserts the SGIH blade upsidedown, as planned to allow use in back, or in front with lathe in reverse. Indeed. You *might* have to make an over-tall holder to deal with that problem. Yes. Or, make a ridged steel spacer plate to go between the lathe's tool slide and the BXA toolpost. Joe Gwinn |
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#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-17, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-16, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... multi-T-slot-cross-slide ... ] For now, the pride will have to be in machine restoration, I think. O.K. If I could get an MLA casting the right size for my machine (which would be the right size for yours, too), I would dive into machining it to make a cross-slide with the rear T-slots. Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. [ ... ] I recall hearing of a company that used Methylene Chloride in what amounted to a large pressure cooker (with metal-to-metal seals for sure) to remove potting agents from modules, for failure analysis (and reverse engineering). O.K. Failure analysis was the purpose that Transitron used back then -- since they had few competitors to analyze anyway. :-) About the only competitor at that time was Texas Instruments -- and while they competed in the actual transistors and diodes, they did not seem to in the potted assemblies. I recall Transitron. There was another depotting company that advertised their ability to strip the potting agent without dissolving the plastic ICs, ICs did not exist at this time. It was 1959 IIRC. :-) But that was also when I discovered that silicone oil could burn. :-) but they wouldn't say how they did this aside from mumbling about used of heat, pressure, and a bunch of well chosen solvents, some far too dangerous for ordinary companies to risk using, as the story went. I think their main business was reverse engineering. :-) When I worked for a government lab, we had an X-ray machine the size of a under-the-desk refrigerator for the purpose. Take two shots, one with the object lying flat on film (4x5 Polaroid), and the second one with one edge blocked up a little (say 1/4-1/2") and you could then view it as a 3-D image with the right tricks. :-) [ ... ] I don't know if Plaza does eBay, but here is the URL: http://www.plazamachinery.com. Their list of available stuff is a bit oddly organized, so it's best to download the whole pdf and then search the file locally. O.K. I've done the download (and am thankful that they have PDF in addition to ".DOC"), and I've now sent off an e-mail to see what he might be able to turn up. Good luck. I may drive up there this summer. It's about three hours drive from my home. The wife would like to see the area, enough to tolerate the resulting crate of greasy iron treasures being dragged home. That is the main trick. :-) [ ... ] Oh -- I just keep a pair of studs in mine to keep the swarf from accumulating in there. I just blow it out every so often, but the little blue pool annoyed me, and made me worry about rusting in dark corners. It takes a lot of picking to get the swarf out, so it is easier to keep it from getting in in the first place. :-) I don't use a pick, I use a thin needle tip on the blowoff gun. Releasing the air from the bottom of the hole usually blows it clean. The swarf that is a killer there is the tight curly stuff which ties into knots once it falls in. I don't have a needle tip for mine -- and I would be afraid of what it might blow between the ways and the carriage. But be careful, as it's easy to blow swarf into the eyes this way. I loosely tie a shop towel around the gun, to intercept the flying swarf and muck. O.K. I've also seen people use a long thin drywall screw to pull swarf from deep holes, and one can buy extractors that appear to be a headless drywall screw mounted in an aluminum handle. I was considering a compression spring, (with the end ground flat to get past the pre-compressed end turns) mounted in a knurled handle which I could use to turn it and walk the chips up. [ ... ] One big toothed timing belt from variable speed (Reeves) drive to gearbox. This belt is not going to slip. O.K. That is the one for which my metric threading gear set was made, based on the photos in the instruction sheet. Metric threading kit. That might be more useful than a taper attachment. It didn't take long from me to encounter the need to make a metric thread (the arbor nuts for the vibrating Ryobi grinder). How often do the metric kits come up for sale, and for what kinds of prices? To be honest -- I've only seen one -- because I stopped looking after I found that one. I think that it was over $100.00 but it is far enough in the past so I am not sure. It came in the original packaging, with the un-used metal data plates showing which combination of gears to use with which quick-change settings to get which metric thread. You know that you can't use the threading dial with the metric gear set in place, don't you? That is why I have not (yet) used the gears. So far -- every metric thread that I have had to cut was small enough to fit on my little Compact-5/CNC, where I can go to metric mode at the flip of a switch. :-) But some of these days I will have to make something larger, and then will be when I will need the metric gears -- and will discover whether they truly will work on my machine. I expect them to work. [ ... ] The main advantage of 19-x holders appears to be that one also can use them to hold a P-3 (0.75" high) HSS T-blade. The other issue to think about is how much one must move the blade holder up on the toolpost if one inserts the SGIH blade upsidedown, as planned to allow use in back, or in front with lathe in reverse. Indeed. You *might* have to make an over-tall holder to deal with that problem. Yes. Or, make a ridged steel spacer plate to go between the lathe's tool slide and the BXA toolpost. Thus having to re-mount the toolpost and re-allign it when you are done. I would rather go with a custom tool holder for the purpose. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-17, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-16, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... multi-T-slot-cross-slide ... ] For now, the pride will have to be in machine restoration, I think. O.K. If I could get an MLA casting the right size for my machine (which would be the right size for yours, too), I would dive into machining it to make a cross-slide with the rear T-slots. Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I'm not visualizing this. The 5914 compound swings around a vertical pivot pin, but does not nod. [ ... ] I recall hearing of a company that used Methylene Chloride in what amounted to a large pressure cooker (with metal-to-metal seals for sure) to remove potting agents from modules, for failure analysis (and reverse engineering). O.K. Failure analysis was the purpose that Transitron used back then -- since they had few competitors to analyze anyway. :-) About the only competitor at that time was Texas Instruments -- and while they competed in the actual transistors and diodes, they did not seem to in the potted assemblies. I recall Transitron. There was another depotting company that advertised their ability to strip the potting agent without dissolving the plastic ICs, ICs did not exist at this time. It was 1959 IIRC. :-) But that was also when I discovered that silicone oil could burn. :-) Oh, yeah. The ash is sand. This is also why it is not a good idea to lubricate electrical contacts with silicon grease. but they wouldn't say how they did this aside from mumbling about use of heat, pressure, and a bunch of well chosen solvents, some far too dangerous for ordinary companies to risk using, as the story went. I think their main business was reverse engineering. :-) When I worked for a government lab, we had an X-ray machine the size of a under-the-desk refrigerator for the purpose. Take two shots, one with the object lying flat on film (4x5 Polaroid), and the second one with one edge blocked up a little (say 1/4-1/2") and you could then view it as a 3-D image with the right tricks. :-) It was a standard trick in the medical field as well, but I forget the name. A related trick was to slide the film side-to-side while the X-ray tube went side-to-side in the opposite direction. This caused all but one plane in the subject to be blurred. CT scans replaced all that stuff. [ ... ] Oh -- I just keep a pair of studs in mine to keep the swarf from accumulating in there. I just blow it out every so often, but the little blue pool annoyed me, and made me worry about rusting in dark corners. It takes a lot of picking to get the swarf out, so it is easier to keep it from getting in in the first place. :-) I don't use a pick, I use a thin needle tip on the blowoff gun. Releasing the air from the bottom of the hole usually blows it clean. The swarf that is a killer there is the tight curly stuff which ties into knots once it falls in. I don't have a needle tip for mine -- and I would be afraid of what it might blow between the ways and the carriage. When cleaning out a blind hole? But be careful, as it's easy to blow swarf into the eyes this way. I loosely tie a shop towel around the gun, to intercept the flying swarf and muck. O.K. I've also seen people use a long thin drywall screw to pull swarf from deep holes, and one can buy extractors that appear to be a headless drywall screw mounted in an aluminum handle. I was considering a compression spring, (with the end ground flat to get past the pre-compressed end turns) mounted in a knurled handle which I could use to turn it and walk the chips up. That could work, but the drywall screw is far stiffer. [ ... ] One big toothed timing belt from variable speed (Reeves) drive to gearbox. This belt is not going to slip. O.K. That is the one for which my metric threading gear set was made, based on the photos in the instruction sheet. Metric threading kit. That might be more useful than a taper attachment. It didn't take long from me to encounter the need to make a metric thread (the arbor nuts for the vibrating Ryobi grinder). How often do the metric kits come up for sale, and for what kinds of prices? To be honest -- I've only seen one -- because I stopped looking after I found that one. I think that it was over $100.00 but it is far enough in the past so I am not sure. It came in the original packaging, with the un-used metal data plates showing which combination of gears to use with which quick-change settings to get which metric thread. You know that you can't use the threading dial with the metric gear set in place, don't you? That is why I have not (yet) used the gears. So far -- every metric thread that I have had to cut was small enough to fit on my little Compact-5/CNC, where I can go to metric mode at the flip of a switch. :-) Yeah. I would have to recompute the result of every combination, and use this as a cheat sheet. But some of these days I will have to make something larger, and then will be when I will need the metric gears -- and will discover whether they truly will work on my machine. I expect them to work. When I outgrow the 5914, I'll be sure to have metric capability. [ ... ] The main advantage of 19-x holders appears to be that one also can use them to hold a P-3 (0.75" high) HSS T-blade. The other issue to think about is how much one must move the blade holder up on the toolpost if one inserts the SGIH blade upsidedown, as planned to allow use in back, or in front with lathe in reverse. Indeed. You *might* have to make an over-tall holder to deal with that problem. Yes. Or, make a ridged steel spacer plate to go between the lathe's tool slide and the BXA toolpost. Thus having to re-mount the toolpost and re-allign it when you are done. Depends on how thick it must be. It also seems to me that it would be an advantage to have a small gap between the bottom of the toolpost and the top of the tool slide, so chips don't accumulate in the triangle corners at the bottom of the toolpost dovetails. I would rather go with a custom tool holder for the purpose. I won't have an opinion until I have played with this a bit more. I tried cutting a 1" diameter 1018 steel bar off with the BXA-7 holding a 0.125" wide T-blade, It worked pretty well, for a while, cutting a deep groove with the lathe at ~500 rpm (not using the back gear) and lots of emulsion coolant. No chattering, but again you could see some toolpost motion. It eventually stalled the lathe with a bang. No damage done, though. Aside from heart failure. I sawed the bar in two right at the groove. What had happened was that it choked on a wadded-up chip. Anyway, this is progress. All that tightening up has eliminated the chatter, even when the tool comes from the front with forward workpiece rotation. There was some self feeding, but it was not the problem. I also tried Clausing's chatter test, taking at least 0.125" depth by 0.002" advance per revolution on a 1.5" bar. I had a 1" bar, but was having no problem going 0.136" deep generating chips between ).004" to 0.006" thick, with only a hissing sound. The workpiece did get hot enough that the emulsion coolant was boiling, but one could keep doing this so long as the coolant supply held up. Joe Gwinn |
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#21
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-18, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-17, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-16, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... multi-T-slot-cross-slide ... ] For now, the pride will have to be in machine restoration, I think. O.K. If I could get an MLA casting the right size for my machine (which would be the right size for yours, too), I would dive into machining it to make a cross-slide with the rear T-slots. Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I'm not visualizing this. The 5914 compound swings around a vertical pivot pin, but does not nod. The "angle plate" to which I was referring was the thick disc at the bottom of the compound pivot which carries the angle scale engraved in it. The "hips" provide a possible place to scribe an index mark for the scale, since the disc is wider than the cross-slide at other locations. [ ... ] I recall Transitron. There was another depotting company that advertised their ability to strip the potting agent without dissolving the plastic ICs, ICs did not exist at this time. It was 1959 IIRC. :-) But that was also when I discovered that silicone oil could burn. :-) Oh, yeah. The ash is sand. Yep! All over the place! :-) This is also why it is not a good idea to lubricate electrical contacts with silicon grease. O.K. That I had not thought of. [ ... ] When I worked for a government lab, we had an X-ray machine the size of a under-the-desk refrigerator for the purpose. Take two shots, one with the object lying flat on film (4x5 Polaroid), and the second one with one edge blocked up a little (say 1/4-1/2") and you could then view it as a 3-D image with the right tricks. :-) It was a standard trick in the medical field as well, but I forget the name. A related trick was to slide the film side-to-side while the X-ray tube went side-to-side in the opposite direction. This caused all but one plane in the subject to be blurred. CT scans replaced all that stuff. Yep -- if you can afford it. Granted, I saw the shell of one at a hamfest some years ago -- back when they were still called "CAT" scans, and "MRIs" were "NMRIs" before people started freaking at the 'N' word. :-) [ ... ] I don't use a pick, I use a thin needle tip on the blowoff gun. Releasing the air from the bottom of the hole usually blows it clean. The swarf that is a killer there is the tight curly stuff which ties into knots once it falls in. I don't have a needle tip for mine -- and I would be afraid of what it might blow between the ways and the carriage. When cleaning out a blind hole? I had no way to be sure that it was truly blind. And it was over the side slides of the carriage. But be careful, as it's easy to blow swarf into the eyes this way. I loosely tie a shop towel around the gun, to intercept the flying swarf and muck. O.K. I've also seen people use a long thin drywall screw to pull swarf from deep holes, and one can buy extractors that appear to be a headless drywall screw mounted in an aluminum handle. I was considering a compression spring, (with the end ground flat to get past the pre-compressed end turns) mounted in a knurled handle which I could use to turn it and walk the chips up. That could work, but the drywall screw is far stiffer. A stiff spring which would just fit into the tapped hole (say it had wire about 1/3 the clearance diameter of the hole allowing for two wires and a through hold of the same size should be stiff enough. [ ... ] How often do the metric kits come up for sale, and for what kinds of prices? To be honest -- I've only seen one -- because I stopped looking after I found that one. I think that it was over $100.00 but it is far enough in the past so I am not sure. It came in the original packaging, with the un-used metal data plates showing which combination of gears to use with which quick-change settings to get which metric thread. You know that you can't use the threading dial with the metric gear set in place, don't you? That is why I have not (yet) used the gears. So far -- every metric thread that I have had to cut was small enough to fit on my little Compact-5/CNC, where I can go to metric mode at the flip of a switch. :-) Yeah. I would have to recompute the result of every combination, and use this as a cheat sheet. Huh? The threading dial (to the right of the carriage) does not work at all for metric threading with an imperial thread leadscrew. If you want to do metric threading a lot -- replace the leadscrew with a metric one, change the QC gearbox to give the right ratios, and replace the threading dial with one which has four different gear tooth counts on a sliding spline so you can select the one which works for the thread in question. (That is one of the places where metric is less convenient, at least the standard set of metric threads is.) Inch threads can all be done with a single threading dial, but not metric threads. (Of course with a CNC machine there is no threading dial at all, and the leadscrew is not geared to the spindle rotation, but rather driven by a stepper or servo motor. The spindle has an encoder disc with two circles of holes -- one has one hole, so every thread pass starts at the same point, and the other has some large number of holes -- at a guess I would say perhaps 32 holes -- and every time another hole appears the stepper motor moves a pre-calculated number of steps -- or the servo motor checks that it has move at constant speed the right distance, and corrects itself if necessary. But some of these days I will have to make something larger, and then will be when I will need the metric gears -- and will discover whether they truly will work on my machine. I expect them to work. When I outgrow the 5914, I'll be sure to have metric capability. The right way to do it is to get a machine with three shafts -- one keyed to drive the power feeds in the apron, and the other two being leadscrews with imperial and metric pitches -- with matching half-nuts in the apron. And -- you need two threading dials as well. [ ... ] Indeed. You *might* have to make an over-tall holder to deal with that problem. Yes. Or, make a ridged steel spacer plate to go between the lathe's tool slide and the BXA toolpost. Thus having to re-mount the toolpost and re-align it when you are done. Depends on how thick it must be. It also seems to me that it would be an advantage to have a small gap between the bottom of the toolpost and the top of the tool slide, so chips don't accumulate in the triangle corners at the bottom of the toolpost dovetails. Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) I would rather go with a custom tool holder for the purpose. I won't have an opinion until I have played with this a bit more. O.K. I tried cutting a 1" diameter 1018 steel bar off with the BXA-7 holding a 0.125" wide T-blade, It worked pretty well, for a while, cutting a deep groove with the lathe at ~500 rpm (not using the back gear) and lots of emulsion coolant. No chattering, but again you could see some toolpost motion. It eventually stalled the lathe with a bang. No damage done, though. Aside from heart failure. I sawed the bar in two right at the groove. What had happened was that it choked on a wadded-up chip. Ah yes -- the reason for a shallow 'V' groove in the top of the parting tool to pinch the chip a bit narrower and reduce the chances of this happening. Anyway, this is progress. All that tightening up has eliminated the chatter, even when the tool comes from the front with forward workpiece rotation. There was some self feeding, but it was not the problem. Great! I also tried Clausing's chatter test, taking at least 0.125" depth by 0.002" advance per revolution on a 1.5" bar. I had a 1" bar, but was having no problem going 0.136" deep generating chips between ).004" to 0.006" thick, with only a hissing sound. The workpiece did get hot enough that the emulsion coolant was boiling, but one could keep doing this so long as the coolant supply held up. Sounds pretty good. Beware when you are running that hot to not let the flow of coolant to a carbide insert get interrupted. This can cause cooling fractures in the insert. Either work hot, or have good flood cooling. (And if you are working as hot as you described, go away and do something else to let it cool way down before measuring prior to a finish cut. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#22
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Gunner Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. |
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#23
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
The long delay was because Comcast's news server went down over the
weekend, and was only restored late Monday. In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-18, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-17, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-16, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... multi-T-slot-cross-slide ... ] For now, the pride will have to be in machine restoration, I think. O.K. If I could get an MLA casting the right size for my machine (which would be the right size for yours, too), I would dive into machining it to make a cross-slide with the rear T-slots. Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I'm not visualizing this. The 5914 compound swings around a vertical pivot pin, but does not nod. The "angle plate" to which I was referring was the thick disc at the bottom of the compound pivot which carries the angle scale engraved in it. The "hips" provide a possible place to scribe an index mark for the scale, since the disc is wider than the cross-slide at other locations. Ahh. I think I have this too. [ ... ] When I worked for a government lab, we had an X-ray machine the size of a under-the-desk refrigerator for the purpose. Take two shots, one with the object lying flat on film (4x5 Polaroid), and the second one with one edge blocked up a little (say 1/4-1/2") and you could then view it as a 3-D image with the right tricks. :-) It was a standard trick in the medical field as well, but I forget the name. A related trick was to slide the film side-to-side while the X-ray tube went side-to-side in the opposite direction. This caused all but one plane in the subject to be blurred. CT scans replaced all that stuff. Yep -- if you can afford it. Granted, I saw the shell of one at a hamfest some years ago -- back when they were still called "CAT" scans, and "MRIs" were "NMRIs" before people started freaking at the 'N' word. :-) The word I couldn't recall was "tomography", and it was not computerized back then. Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging (NMRI) was in fact perfectly accurate. But, the ignorant will always be with us - they didn't understand that "nuclear" didn't necessarily require or imply radiation. So, the name had to change. [ ... ] I don't use a pick, I use a thin needle tip on the blowoff gun. Releasing the air from the bottom of the hole usually blows it clean. The swarf that is a killer there is the tight curly stuff which ties into knots once it falls in. I don't have a needle tip for mine -- and I would be afraid of what it might blow between the ways and the carriage. When cleaning out a blind hole? I had no way to be sure that it was truly blind. And it was over the side slides of the carriage. But be careful, as it's easy to blow swarf into the eyes this way. I loosely tie a shop towel around the gun, to intercept the flying swarf and muck. O.K. I've also seen people use a long thin drywall screw to pull swarf from deep holes, and one can buy extractors that appear to be a headless drywall screw mounted in an aluminum handle. I was considering a compression spring, (with the end ground flat to get past the pre-compressed end turns) mounted in a knurled handle which I could use to turn it and walk the chips up. That could work, but the drywall screw is far stiffer. A stiff spring which would just fit into the tapped hole (say it had wire about 1/3 the clearance diameter of the hole allowing for two wires and a through hold of the same size should be stiff enough. Certainly. But drywall screws are plentiful and cheap. [ ... ] How often do the metric kits come up for sale, and for what kinds of prices? To be honest -- I've only seen one -- because I stopped looking after I found that one. I think that it was over $100.00 but it is far enough in the past so I am not sure. It came in the original packaging, with the un-used metal data plates showing which combination of gears to use with which quick-change settings to get which metric thread. You know that you can't use the threading dial with the metric gear set in place, don't you? That is why I have not (yet) used the gears. So far -- every metric thread that I have had to cut was small enough to fit on my little Compact-5/CNC, where I can go to metric mode at the flip of a switch. :-) Yeah. I would have to recompute the result of every combination, and use this as a cheat sheet. Huh? The threading dial (to the right of the carriage) does not work at all for metric threading with an imperial thread leadscrew. True; nothing else expected. For metric on an inch machine, one must go back up to get back to the start point without losing registration. If you want to do metric threading a lot -- replace the leadscrew with a metric one, change the QC gearbox to give the right ratios, and replace the threading dial with one which has four different gear tooth counts on a sliding spline so you can select the one which works for the thread in question. (That is one of the places where metric is less convenient, at least the standard set of metric threads is.) Inch threads can all be done with a single threading dial, but not metric threads. (Of course with a CNC machine there is no threading dial at all, and the leadscrew is not geared to the spindle rotation, but rather driven by a stepper or servo motor. The spindle has an encoder disc with two circles of holes -- one has one hole, so every thread pass starts at the same point, and the other has some large number of holes -- at a guess I would say perhaps 32 holes -- and every time another hole appears the stepper motor moves a pre-calculated number of steps -- or the servo motor checks that it has move at constant speed the right distance, and corrects itself if necessary. If you keep this up, I'll have to become frightened. But some of these days I will have to make something larger, and then will be when I will need the metric gears -- and will discover whether they truly will work on my machine. I expect them to work. When I outgrow the 5914, I'll be sure to have metric capability. The right way to do it is to get a machine with three shafts -- one keyed to drive the power feeds in the apron, and the other two being leadscrews with imperial and metric pitches -- with matching half-nuts in the apron. And -- you need two threading dials as well. Yep. Future. First I need to do a little self-education. [ ... ] Indeed. You *might* have to make an over-tall holder to deal with that problem. Yes. Or, make a ridged steel spacer plate to go between the lathe's tool slide and the BXA toolpost. Thus having to re-mount the toolpost and re-align it when you are done. Depends on how thick it must be. It also seems to me that it would be an advantage to have a small gap between the bottom of the toolpost and the top of the tool slide, so chips don't accumulate in the triangle corners at the bottom of the toolpost dovetails. Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) Not by much, as the plate is in compression, and can be accurately machined. And, all the rigidity problems I've had so far have been associated with loose slideways. I would rather go with a custom tool holder for the purpose. I won't have an opinion until I have played with this a bit more. O.K. I'm leaning to the Dorian 7-71C, which appears to be made to allow use upsidedown. I will call Dorian and ask. I tried cutting a 1" diameter 1018 steel bar off with the BXA-7 holding a 0.125" wide T-blade, It worked pretty well, for a while, cutting a deep groove with the lathe at ~500 rpm (not using the back gear) and lots of emulsion coolant. No chattering, but again you could see some toolpost motion. It eventually stalled the lathe with a bang. No damage done, though. Aside from heart failure. I sawed the bar in two right at the groove. What had happened was that it choked on a wadded-up chip. Ah yes -- the reason for a shallow 'V' groove in the top of the parting tool to pinch the chip a bit narrower and reduce the chances of this happening. Yes. I'll have to find a way to grind this feature into the blades. Anyway, this is progress. All that tightening up has eliminated the chatter, even when the tool comes from the front with forward workpiece rotation. There was some self feeding, but it was not the problem. Great! I also tried Clausing's chatter test, taking at least 0.125" depth by 0.002" advance per revolution on a 1.5" bar. I had a 1" bar, but was having no problem going 0.136" deep generating chips between ).004" to 0.006" thick, with only a hissing sound. The workpiece did get hot enough that the emulsion coolant was boiling, but one could keep doing this so long as the coolant supply held up. Sounds pretty good. Beware when you are running that hot to not let the flow of coolant to a carbide insert get interrupted. This can cause cooling fractures in the insert. Either work hot, or have good flood cooling. (And if you are working as hot as you described, go away and do something else to let it cool way down before measuring prior to a finish cut. :-) Well, I'm using a heavy spray. A flood would probably end up decorating the ceiling. I've been thinking of mounting some kind of shield on the carriage. A line is already forming on wall and ceiling. The Noga mist cooler does cause some drifting mist, which I find to cause a lot of coughing. I've taken to wearing a respirator to prevent breathing of the oil mist, but a better approach is required. This is certainly only for roughing cuts. But speed is a good idea, even for HSMers. Joe Gwinn |
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#24
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-20, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
The long delay was because Comcast's news server went down over the weekend, and was only restored late Monday. So -- that was why things were quiet over the weekend. :-) In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-18, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I'm not visualizing this. The 5914 compound swings around a vertical pivot pin, but does not nod. The "angle plate" to which I was referring was the thick disc at the bottom of the compound pivot which carries the angle scale engraved in it. The "hips" provide a possible place to scribe an index mark for the scale, since the disc is wider than the cross-slide at other locations. Ahh. I think I have this too. I expected so. It was a standard trick in the medical field as well, but I forget the name. A related trick was to slide the film side-to-side while the X-ray tube went side-to-side in the opposite direction. This caused all but one plane in the subject to be blurred. CT scans replaced all that stuff. Yep -- if you can afford it. Granted, I saw the shell of one at a hamfest some years ago -- back when they were still called "CAT" scans, and "MRIs" were "NMRIs" before people started freaking at the 'N' word. :-) The word I couldn't recall was "tomography", and it was not computerized back then. Oh -- I didn't know that you were searching for the word. For some reason, I have no problem remembering that one. :-) Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging (NMRI) was in fact perfectly accurate. But, the ignorant will always be with us - they didn't understand that "nuclear" didn't necessarily require or imply radiation. So, the name had to change. Yep -- and now you can freak some of the *operators* of the devices by mentioning the full name. :-) [ ... ] I was considering a compression spring, (with the end ground flat to get past the pre-compressed end turns) mounted in a knurled handle which I could use to turn it and walk the chips up. That could work, but the drywall screw is far stiffer. A stiff spring which would just fit into the tapped hole (say it had wire about 1/3 the clearance diameter of the hole allowing for two wires and a through hold of the same size should be stiff enough. Certainly. But drywall screws are plentiful and cheap. Yes -- but I would expect a properly selected spring to do a better job of cleaning the hole -- then perhaps followed by the compressed air needle. (I'll have to make a snout for one of my air guns to do that.) [ ... ] You know that you can't use the threading dial with the metric gear set in place, don't you? That is why I have not (yet) used the gears. So far -- every metric thread that I have had to cut was small enough to fit on my little Compact-5/CNC, where I can go to metric mode at the flip of a switch. :-) Yeah. I would have to recompute the result of every combination, and use this as a cheat sheet. Huh? The threading dial (to the right of the carriage) does not work at all for metric threading with an imperial thread leadscrew. True; nothing else expected. For metric on an inch machine, one must go back up to get back to the start point without losing registration. O.K. If you want to do metric threading a lot -- replace the leadscrew with a metric one, change the QC gearbox to give the right ratios, and replace the threading dial with one which has four different gear tooth counts on a sliding spline so you can select the one which works for the thread in question. (That is one of the places where metric is less convenient, at least the standard set of metric threads is.) Inch threads can all be done with a single threading dial, but not metric threads. (Of course with a CNC machine there is no threading dial at all, and the leadscrew is not geared to the spindle rotation, but rather driven by a stepper or servo motor. The spindle has an encoder disc with two circles of holes -- one has one hole, so every thread pass starts at the same point, and the other has some large number of holes -- at a guess I would say perhaps 32 holes -- and every time another hole appears the stepper motor moves a pre-calculated number of steps -- or the servo motor checks that it has move at constant speed the right distance, and corrects itself if necessary. If you keep this up, I'll have to become frightened. This was for if you want to do it a *lot*. And one of the advantages of the CNC method is that it makes it easy to thread up to a shoulder with no worries at whatever speed your lathe can manage. (The Compact-5/CNC is limited to around 200 RPM because the Z-axis stepper is too slow to handle coarse threads at higher spindle RPMs. (The Z axis is parallel to the spindle -- along the bed for a lathe. But some of these days I will have to make something larger, and then will be when I will need the metric gears -- and will discover whether they truly will work on my machine. I expect them to work. When I outgrow the 5914, I'll be sure to have metric capability. The right way to do it is to get a machine with three shafts -- one keyed to drive the power feeds in the apron, and the other two being leadscrews with imperial and metric pitches -- with matching half-nuts in the apron. And -- you need two threading dials as well. Yep. Future. First I need to do a little self-education. O.K. [ ... ] Yes. Or, make a ridged steel spacer plate to go between the lathe's tool slide and the BXA toolpost. Thus having to re-mount the toolpost and re-align it when you are done. Depends on how thick it must be. It also seems to me that it would be an advantage to have a small gap between the bottom of the toolpost and the top of the tool slide, so chips don't accumulate in the triangle corners at the bottom of the toolpost dovetails. Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) Not by much, as the plate is in compression, and can be accurately machined. And, all the rigidity problems I've had so far have been associated with loose slideways. The length of unsupported tool shank can be a problem even. I'm against anything which reduces the rigidity of the toolpost assembly. I would rather go with a custom tool holder for the purpose. I won't have an opinion until I have played with this a bit more. O.K. I'm leaning to the Dorian 7-71C, which appears to be made to allow use upsidedown. I will call Dorian and ask. O.K. Let me know how it works out. I tried cutting a 1" diameter 1018 steel bar off with the BXA-7 holding a 0.125" wide T-blade, It worked pretty well, for a while, cutting a deep groove with the lathe at ~500 rpm (not using the back gear) and lots of emulsion coolant. No chattering, but again you could see some toolpost motion. It eventually stalled the lathe with a bang. No damage done, though. Aside from heart failure. I sawed the bar in two right at the groove. What had happened was that it choked on a wadded-up chip. Ah yes -- the reason for a shallow 'V' groove in the top of the parting tool to pinch the chip a bit narrower and reduce the chances of this happening. Yes. I'll have to find a way to grind this feature into the blades. Get a Dremel and a stone perhaps 1" diameter. Use a diamond to dress it to look like this: __________ ____ ____ || || || || and run it along the top near the tip. Or -- if you have a small surface grinder, get a thin wheel for that, and dress it as shown. [ ... ] Sounds pretty good. Beware when you are running that hot to not let the flow of coolant to a carbide insert get interrupted. This can cause cooling fractures in the insert. Either work hot, or have good flood cooling. (And if you are working as hot as you described, go away and do something else to let it cool way down before measuring prior to a finish cut. :-) Well, I'm using a heavy spray. A flood would probably end up decorating the ceiling. I've been thinking of mounting some kind of shield on the carriage. A line is already forming on wall and ceiling. Hmm ... I have a shield which mounts on a rod on the back of the headstock and it swivels out of the way for loading, or down to control spray towards the operator. But it only works in the vicinity of the chuck. For a carriage mounted one, you want something like the T-slotted cross slide again. :-) The Noga mist cooler does cause some drifting mist, which I find to cause a lot of coughing. I've taken to wearing a respirator to prevent breathing of the oil mist, but a better approach is required. From what I have read, the micro-drop is the best thing for this. This is certainly only for roughing cuts. But speed is a good idea, even for HSMers. And patience after roughing to let it cool enough. I try to set things up so I just finish the roughing before being called to dinner, that way I have something to be doing while the workpiece cools. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#25
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#26
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote: On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. On my 5914, the tool slide is 6.5" x 3" by 1.25" or so, so 4x5x2 would not work, sadly. Joe Gwinn |
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#27
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-20, Joseph Gwinn wrote: The long delay was because Comcast's news server went down over the weekend, and was only restored late Monday. So -- that was why things were quiet over the weekend. :-) In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-18, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging (NMRI) was in fact perfectly accurate. But, the ignorant will always be with us - they didn't understand that "nuclear" didn't necessarily require or imply radiation. So, the name had to change. Yep -- and now you can freak some of the *operators* of the devices by mentioning the full name. :-) I haven't tried that. Yet. [ ... ] I was considering a compression spring, (with the end ground flat to get past the pre-compressed end turns) mounted in a knurled handle which I could use to turn it and walk the chips up. That could work, but the drywall screw is far stiffer. A stiff spring which would just fit into the tapped hole (say it had wire about 1/3 the clearance diameter of the hole allowing for two wires and a through hold of the same size should be stiff enough. Certainly. But drywall screws are plentiful and cheap. Yes -- but I would expect a properly selected spring to do a better job of cleaning the hole -- then perhaps followed by the compressed air needle. (I'll have to make a snout for one of my air guns to do that.) I found an air needle set that was threaded to fit into the snout of a real Schrader blowoff nozzle that I've had for years, long before I had a compressor to run it. [ ... ] If you want to do metric threading a lot -- replace the leadscrew with a metric one, change the QC gearbox to give the right ratios, and replace the threading dial with one which has four different gear tooth counts on a sliding spline so you can select the one which works for the thread in question. (That is one of the places where metric is less convenient, at least the standard set of metric threads is.) Inch threads can all be done with a single threading dial, but not metric threads. (Of course with a CNC machine there is no threading dial at all, and the leadscrew is not geared to the spindle rotation, but rather driven by a stepper or servo motor. The spindle has an encoder disc with two circles of holes -- one has one hole, so every thread pass starts at the same point, and the other has some large number of holes -- at a guess I would say perhaps 32 holes -- and every time another hole appears the stepper motor moves a pre-calculated number of steps -- or the servo motor checks that it has move at constant speed the right distance, and corrects itself if necessary. If you keep this up, I'll have to become frightened. This was for if you want to do it a *lot*. And one of the advantages of the CNC method is that it makes it easy to thread up to a shoulder with no worries at whatever speed your lathe can manage. (The Compact-5/CNC is limited to around 200 RPM because the Z-axis stepper is too slow to handle coarse threads at higher spindle RPMs. (The Z axis is parallel to the spindle -- along the bed for a lathe. Ahh. Now it becomes clear -- buy a CNC lathe. To go one better, it must weigh at least 3000#. Got to have sufficient rigidity. [ ... ] Yes. Or, make a ridged steel spacer plate to go between the lathe's tool slide and the BXA toolpost. Thus having to re-mount the toolpost and re-align it when you are done. Depends on how thick it must be. It also seems to me that it would be an advantage to have a small gap between the bottom of the toolpost and the top of the tool slide, so chips don't accumulate in the triangle corners at the bottom of the toolpost dovetails. Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) Not by much, as the plate is in compression, and can be accurately machined. And, all the rigidity problems I've had so far have been associated with loose slideways. The length of unsupported tool shank can be a problem even. I'm against anything which reduces the rigidity of the toolpost assembly. I'm thinking a plate ~0.1" thick. I would rather go with a custom tool holder for the purpose. I won't have an opinion until I have played with this a bit more. O.K. I'm leaning to the Dorian 7-71C, which appears to be made to allow use upsidedown. I will call Dorian and ask. O.K. Let me know how it works out. I called today, but have not yet talked to a human. Form their catalog, it appears that their 7-71C is intended to be used upsidedown, which would be perfect. It uses SGIH 19-2 blades, which are slightly larger than the 11/16" blades the Aloris BXA-7 uses, but one cal also get Dorian 7-71S holders, which accept SGIH 26-x blades, which are a good bit stouter. The Aloris BXA-71 uses a very stout blade, 1.5" high, but does not appear to be reversible - it has a one-sided bevel. I tried cutting a 1" diameter 1018 steel bar off with the BXA-7 holding a 0.125" wide T-blade, It worked pretty well, for a while, cutting a deep groove with the lathe at ~500 rpm (not using the back gear) and lots of emulsion coolant. No chattering, but again you could see some toolpost motion. It eventually stalled the lathe with a bang. No damage done, though. Aside from heart failure. I sawed the bar in two right at the groove. What had happened was that it choked on a wadded-up chip. Ah yes -- the reason for a shallow 'V' groove in the top of the parting tool to pinch the chip a bit narrower and reduce the chances of this happening. Yes. I'll have to find a way to grind this feature into the blades. Get a Dremel and a stone perhaps 1" diameter. Use a diamond to dress it to look like this: __________ ____ ____ || || || || and run it along the top near the tip. Or -- if you have a small surface grinder, get a thin wheel for that, and dress it as shown. This is doable, except for the surface grinder part. [ ... ] Sounds pretty good. Beware when you are running that hot to not let the flow of coolant to a carbide insert get interrupted. This can cause cooling fractures in the insert. Either work hot, or have good flood cooling. (And if you are working as hot as you described, go away and do something else to let it cool way down before measuring prior to a finish cut. :-) Well, I'm using a heavy spray. A flood would probably end up decorating the ceiling. I've been thinking of mounting some kind of shield on the carriage. A line is already forming on wall and ceiling. Hmm ... I have a shield which mounts on a rod on the back of the headstock and it swivels out of the way for loading, or down to control spray towards the operator. But it only works in the vicinity of the chuck. For a carriage mounted one, you want something like the T-slotted cross slide again. :-) Or drill and thread some mounting holes in the cast-iron cross-slide screw cover, which I've been considering. The Noga mist cooler does cause some drifting mist, which I find to cause a lot of coughing. I've taken to wearing a respirator to prevent breathing of the oil mist, but a better approach is required. From what I have read, the micro-drop is the best thing for this. So I've heard, but they are quite expensive. What alternatives are there? Maybe the solution is flood cooling plus a cover to catch what's flung off the workpiece. The cover need not be transparent, as even transparent covers will soon become opaque from the accumulated emulsion and crud. With Rustlick WS-5050 emulsion, the baby blue milky fluid, decoration of nearby surfaces isn't a disaster, but will eventually stain the surfaces. A carriage-mounted shield should cut this down a lot. This is certainly only for roughing cuts. But speed is a good idea, even for HSMers. And patience after roughing to let it cool enough. I try to set things up so I just finish the roughing before being called to dinner, that way I have something to be doing while the workpiece cools. :-) I haven't been at the point where this would matter, at least not yet. But it will soon enough become something I need to worry about. Joe Gwinn |
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#28
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Continuing lathe chatter (from people now, not the lathe. :-)
"References: " header folded into "X-references: " again.
On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-20, Joseph Gwinn wrote: [ ... ] Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging (NMRI) was in fact perfectly accurate. But, the ignorant will always be with us - they didn't understand that "nuclear" didn't necessarily require or imply radiation. So, the name had to change. Yep -- and now you can freak some of the *operators* of the devices by mentioning the full name. :-) I haven't tried that. Yet. :-) [ ... ] Certainly. But drywall screws are plentiful and cheap. Yes -- but I would expect a properly selected spring to do a better job of cleaning the hole -- then perhaps followed by the compressed air needle. (I'll have to make a snout for one of my air guns to do that.) I found an air needle set that was threaded to fit into the snout of a real Schrader blowoff nozzle that I've had for years, long before I had a compressor to run it. O.K. I haven't -- so if I want one, I'll have to make it or order from MSC or somewhere similar. [ ... ] If you keep this up, I'll have to become frightened. This was for if you want to do it a *lot*. And one of the advantages of the CNC method is that it makes it easy to thread up to a shoulder with no worries at whatever speed your lathe can manage. (The Compact-5/CNC is limited to around 200 RPM because the Z-axis stepper is too slow to handle coarse threads at higher spindle RPMs. (The Z axis is parallel to the spindle -- along the bed for a lathe. Ahh. Now it becomes clear -- buy a CNC lathe. To go one better, it must weigh at least 3000#. Got to have sufficient rigidity. Well ... My CNC lathe weighs something like 150-200 lbs. But it is only 5" swing, and a lot of the weight is the transformers in the sloped electronics housing which makes the backsplash panel as well as the control panel. The buttons especially are out of range of the splashes. :-) [ ... ] Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) Not by much, as the plate is in compression, and can be accurately machined. And, all the rigidity problems I've had so far have been associated with loose slideways. The length of unsupported tool shank can be a problem even. I'm against anything which reduces the rigidity of the toolpost assembly. I'm thinking a plate ~0.1" thick. O.K. But still what matters is the reduction in surface contact between the compound top and the toolpost bottom. [ ... ] I'm leaning to the Dorian 7-71C, which appears to be made to allow use upsidedown. I will call Dorian and ask. O.K. Let me know how it works out. I called today, but have not yet talked to a human. Form their catalog, it appears that their 7-71C is intended to be used upsidedown, which would be perfect. It uses SGIH 19-2 blades, which are slightly larger than the 11/16" blades the Aloris BXA-7 uses, but one cal also get Dorian 7-71S holders, which accept SGIH 26-x blades, which are a good bit stouter. The Aloris BXA-71 uses a very stout blade, 1.5" high, but does not appear to be reversible - it has a one-sided bevel. O.K. [ ... ] Ah yes -- the reason for a shallow 'V' groove in the top of the parting tool to pinch the chip a bit narrower and reduce the chances of this happening. Yes. I'll have to find a way to grind this feature into the blades. Get a Dremel and a stone perhaps 1" diameter. Use a diamond to dress it to look like this: __________ ____ ____ || || || || and run it along the top near the tip. Or -- if you have a small surface grinder, get a thin wheel for that, and dress it as shown. This is doable, except for the surface grinder part. Well ... the surface grinder was offered as an alternative to the Dremel, not as mandatory. But it is probably the way that *I* would do it. [ ... ] Hmm ... I have a shield which mounts on a rod on the back of the headstock and it swivels out of the way for loading, or down to control spray towards the operator. But it only works in the vicinity of the chuck. For a carriage mounted one, you want something like the T-slotted cross slide again. :-) Or drill and thread some mounting holes in the cast-iron cross-slide screw cover, which I've been considering. Hmm ... bear in mind that the cross-slide screw cover gets replaced when you put on the taper attachment -- at least for the plain taper attachment, and I think also for the telescoping taper attachment. And the existing cover is perhaps not rigid enough to resist fracture if someone bumps the shield in the wrong way. perhaps mount it to the screws which secure the cover -- they go into more meat in the cross-slide. The Noga mist cooler does cause some drifting mist, which I find to cause a lot of coughing. I've taken to wearing a respirator to prevent breathing of the oil mist, but a better approach is required. From what I have read, the micro-drop is the best thing for this. So I've heard, but they are quite expensive. What alternatives are there? Other than making your own (which some here have done)? A breathing mask with air pumped in form somewhere else, if you want to keep using the mist. Maybe the solution is flood cooling plus a cover to catch what's flung off the workpiece. The cover need not be transparent, as even transparent covers will soon become opaque from the accumulated emulsion and crud. That could do it. Transparent still helps to see where the fresh coolant is currently hitting, so you can spot something going wrong. :-) And you really should have a separate cover for the chuck area, because coolant or oil tends to walk along the workpiece and then get slung out by the chuck jaws. With Rustlick WS-5050 emulsion, the baby blue milky fluid, decoration of nearby surfaces isn't a disaster, but will eventually stain the surfaces. A carriage-mounted shield should cut this down a lot. Hmm ... perhaps get some rolls of the pre-painted aluminum used for siding and staple it to the wall and the ceiling where the stripes are trying to form. I did this where the surface grinder flings the overshoot -- complete with a V-fold at the bottom to capture the dry swarf so it can be swept into a container for disposal, instead of falling to the floor. This is certainly only for roughing cuts. But speed is a good idea, even for HSMers. And patience after roughing to let it cool enough. I try to set things up so I just finish the roughing before being called to dinner, that way I have something to be doing while the workpiece cools. :-) I haven't been at the point where this would matter, at least not yet. But it will soon enough become something I need to worry about. I have -- and have made the mistake of not waiting long enough for it to cool off. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#29
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote: On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. On my 5914, the tool slide is 6.5" x 3" by 1.25" or so, so 4x5x2 would not work, sadly. Are you talking about the compound slide again? This is supposed to be be cross-slide -- first thing up from the carriage, and mine is 8-3/4" long, so there is no way that it would work. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#30
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 20 May 2008 03:39:12 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote: On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. Enjoy, DoN. Ive got some larger bits. Email me with the max dimensions you need. Gunner |
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#31
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On Tue, 20 May 2008 22:23:17 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote: On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. On my 5914, the tool slide is 6.5" x 3" by 1.25" or so, so 4x5x2 would not work, sadly. Joe Gwinn Ill check this coming weekend when Im back home again. Sadly..I passed on the 1000lbs of larger cast iron blocks I snagged these for making KDK type holders. The rest was scrapped....sigh Gunner |
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#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Continuing lathe chatter (from people now, not the lathe. :-)
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: "References: " header folded into "X-references: " again. On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-20, Joseph Gwinn wrote: [ ... ] Certainly. But drywall screws are plentiful and cheap. Yes -- but I would expect a properly selected spring to do a better job of cleaning the hole -- then perhaps followed by the compressed air needle. (I'll have to make a snout for one of my air guns to do that.) I found an air needle set that was threaded to fit into the snout of a real Schrader blowoff nozzle that I've had for years, long before I had a compressor to run it. O.K. I haven't -- so if I want one, I'll have to make it or order from MSC or somewhere similar. I got my set from MSC (# 02365526), for $17. I bought them sight unseen, but the needles seem well enough made. [ ... ] If you keep this up, I'll have to become frightened. This was for if you want to do it a *lot*. And one of the advantages of the CNC method is that it makes it easy to thread up to a shoulder with no worries at whatever speed your lathe can manage. (The Compact-5/CNC is limited to around 200 RPM because the Z-axis stepper is too slow to handle coarse threads at higher spindle RPMs. (The Z axis is parallel to the spindle -- along the bed for a lathe. Ahh. Now it becomes clear -- buy a CNC lathe. To go one better, it must weigh at least 3000#. Got to have sufficient rigidity. Well ... My CNC lathe weighs something like 150-200 lbs. But it is only 5" swing, and a lot of the weight is the transformers in the sloped electronics housing which makes the backsplash panel as well as the control panel. The buttons especially are out of range of the splashes. :-) Only 200 pounds? What a let-down. The good news is that one can have a full-coverage splash shield, just like on those machining centers. [ ... ] Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) Not by much, as the plate is in compression, and can be accurately machined. And, all the rigidity problems I've had so far have been associated with loose slideways. The length of unsupported tool shank can be a problem even. I'm against anything which reduces the rigidity of the toolpost assembly. I'm thinking a plate ~0.1" thick. O.K. But still what matters is the reduction in surface contact between the compound top and the toolpost bottom. I'm having a problem believing that such a spacer, if well made and not too thick, will materially affect the rigidity, compared to the slideways. [ ... ] I'm leaning to the Dorian 7-71C, which appears to be made to allow use upsidedown. I will call Dorian and ask. O.K. Let me know how it works out. I called today, but have not yet talked to a human. Form their catalog, it appears that their 7-71C is intended to be used upsidedown, which would be perfect. It uses SGIH 19-2 blades, which are slightly larger than the 11/16" blades the Aloris BXA-7 uses, but one can also get Dorian 7-71S holders, which accept SGIH 26-x blades, which are a good bit stouter. The Aloris BXA-71 uses a very stout blade, 1.5" high, but does not appear to be reversible - it has a one-sided bevel. O.K. No news yet. [ ... ] Hmm ... I have a shield which mounts on a rod on the back of the headstock and it swivels out of the way for loading, or down to control spray towards the operator. But it only works in the vicinity of the chuck. For a carriage mounted one, you want something like the T-slotted cross slide again. :-) Or drill and thread some mounting holes in the cast-iron cross-slide screw cover, which I've been considering. Hmm ... bear in mind that the cross-slide screw cover gets replaced when you put on the taper attachment -- at least for the plain taper attachment, and I think also for the telescoping taper attachment. And the existing cover is perhaps not rigid enough to resist fracture if someone bumps the shield in the wrong way. Perhaps mount it to the screws which secure the cover -- they go into more meat in the cross-slide. I was thinking something not so rigid, like a piece of copper or aluminum flashing, to be hand bent into shape as needed. But using the same screws as hold the cover is a good idea too. It's easy to dimple the copper to work with the big flat-head screws, but a ~5" long steel bar clamping the flashing to the cross slide may be a better way. The Noga mist cooler does cause some drifting mist, which I find to cause a lot of coughing. I've taken to wearing a respirator to prevent breathing of the oil mist, but a better approach is required. From what I have read, the micro-drop is the best thing for this. So I've heard, but they are quite expensive. What alternatives are there? Other than making your own (which some here have done)? Hmm. Has anyone published pictures or plans? A breathing mask with air pumped in form somewhere else, if you want to keep using the mist. The 3M respirator is cheap enough, and work well, even if it makes me look like a preying mantis. Maybe the solution is flood cooling plus a cover to catch what's flung off the workpiece. The cover need not be transparent, as even transparent covers will soon become opaque from the accumulated emulsion and crud. That could do it. Transparent still helps to see where the fresh coolant is currently hitting, so you can spot something going wrong. :-) Polycarbonate. And easily replaced, because the coolant will soon damage the plastic. And you really should have a separate cover for the chuck area, because coolant or oil tends to walk along the workpiece and then get slung out by the chuck jaws. Hmm. Good point. With Rustlick WS-5050 emulsion, the baby blue milky fluid, decoration of nearby surfaces isn't a disaster, but will eventually stain the surfaces. A carriage-mounted shield should cut this down a lot. Hmm ... perhaps get some rolls of the pre-painted aluminum used for siding and staple it to the wall and the ceiling where the stripes are trying to form. I did this where the surface grinder flings the overshoot -- complete with a V-fold at the bottom to capture the dry swarf so it can be swept into a container for disposal, instead of falling to the floor. I had been thinking of hanging some cheap fabric (like the muslin used for painter's dropcloths) to intercept the stripes. This is certainly only for roughing cuts. But speed is a good idea, even for HSMers. And patience after roughing to let it cool enough. I try to set things up so I just finish the roughing before being called to dinner, that way I have something to be doing while the workpiece cools. :-) I haven't been at the point where this would matter, at least not yet. But it will soon enough become something I need to worry about. I have -- and have made the mistake of not waiting long enough for it to cool off. I imagine I will too. One advantage of flooding with water emulsions is that things don't heat up that much. Joe Gwinn |
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#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote: On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. On my 5914, the tool slide is 6.5" x 3" by 1.25" or so, so 4x5x2 would not work, sadly. Are you talking about the compound slide again? This is supposed to be be cross-slide -- first thing up from the carriage, and mine is 8-3/4" long, so there is no way that it would work. "Tool slide" is Clausing's name for it, being the topmost slide with a single large T-slot to which the toolpost is clamped, and which swings about a vertical pivot pin. The cross-slide outer dimensions are about 8.75" x 4" x 1.25", about the same as yours it seems. Joe Gwinn |
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#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Continuing lathe chatter (from people now, not the lathe. :-)
On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: "References: " header folded into "X-references: " again. [ ... ] I found an air needle set that was threaded to fit into the snout of a real Schrader blowoff nozzle that I've had for years, long before I had a compressor to run it. O.K. I haven't -- so if I want one, I'll have to make it or order from MSC or somewhere similar. I got my set from MSC (# 02365526), for $17. I bought them sight unseen, but the needles seem well enough made. O.K. I'll keep that in mind for my next order from MSC. [ ... ] Ahh. Now it becomes clear -- buy a CNC lathe. To go one better, it must weigh at least 3000#. Got to have sufficient rigidity. Well ... My CNC lathe weighs something like 150-200 lbs. But it is only 5" swing, and a lot of the weight is the transformers in the sloped electronics housing which makes the backsplash panel as well as the control panel. The buttons especially are out of range of the splashes. :-) Only 200 pounds? What a let-down. The good news is that one can have a full-coverage splash shield, just like on those machining centers. This one has a box of electronics behind the lathe which controls splash to the back. There is a splash shield which is hinged to the front edge of the carriage just past the outermost travel of the cross-slide. The shield is a smokey plastic -- Lexan like I think -- which has a shape like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion of the shape: ______________ / \ / \ / / / O --- hinge I actually have two of them -- one full width all over, and the other with a cutout near the tailstock-end of the cover to clear the long motor which runs the (optional) tool turret. No coolant in this lathe, but the whole thing, including headstock and (DC) motor are in the chip pan, which extends back to where the electronics box starts. I did a quick search of eBay, but while there is a manual Comapct-5 being offered, there is no CNC version, which is much heavier overall, even though it uses the same bed, and mostly the same headstock. [ ... ] Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) Not by much, as the plate is in compression, and can be accurately machined. And, all the rigidity problems I've had so far have been associated with loose slideways. The length of unsupported tool shank can be a problem even. I'm against anything which reduces the rigidity of the toolpost assembly. I'm thinking a plate ~0.1" thick. O.K. But still what matters is the reduction in surface contact between the compound top and the toolpost bottom. I'm having a problem believing that such a spacer, if well made and not too thick, will materially affect the rigidity, compared to the slideways. O.K. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I just feel that *any* contribution to a loss of rigidity is to be avoided. [ ... ] The Aloris BXA-71 uses a very stout blade, 1.5" high, but does not appear to be reversible - it has a one-sided bevel. O.K. No news yet. O.K. [ ... ] Hmm ... I have a shield which mounts on a rod on the back of the headstock and it swivels out of the way for loading, or down to control spray towards the operator. But it only works in the vicinity of the chuck. For a carriage mounted one, you want something like the T-slotted cross slide again. :-) Or drill and thread some mounting holes in the cast-iron cross-slide screw cover, which I've been considering. Hmm ... bear in mind that the cross-slide screw cover gets replaced when you put on the taper attachment -- at least for the plain taper attachment, and I think also for the telescoping taper attachment. And the existing cover is perhaps not rigid enough to resist fracture if someone bumps the shield in the wrong way. Perhaps mount it to the screws which secure the cover -- they go into more meat in the cross-slide. I was thinking something not so rigid, like a piece of copper or aluminum flashing, to be hand bent into shape as needed. But using the same screws as hold the cover is a good idea too. It's easy to dimple the copper to work with the big flat-head screws, but a ~5" long steel bar clamping the flashing to the cross slide may be a better way. It helps to have the shield clear, so you get more illumination through to the spindle, even if you can't see clearly. Go for something like Lexan, not something as brittle as Plexiglass. The Noga mist cooler does cause some drifting mist, which I find to cause a lot of coughing. I've taken to wearing a respirator to prevent breathing of the oil mist, but a better approach is required. From what I have read, the micro-drop is the best thing for this. So I've heard, but they are quite expensive. What alternatives are there? Other than making your own (which some here have done)? Hmm. Has anyone published pictures or plans? I think that there are some photos which were posted, but I did not bother to save a link. If you care enough, do a Google search for the newsgroup over the past five years I think should do it. A breathing mask with air pumped in form somewhere else, if you want to keep using the mist. The 3M respirator is cheap enough, and work well, even if it makes me look like a preying mantis. Is that supplied air, or just depending on filters? I would suggest that supplied air would be less likely to clog during a long machining session. Maybe the solution is flood cooling plus a cover to catch what's flung off the workpiece. The cover need not be transparent, as even transparent covers will soon become opaque from the accumulated emulsion and crud. That could do it. Transparent still helps to see where the fresh coolant is currently hitting, so you can spot something going wrong. :-) Polycarbonate. And easily replaced, because the coolant will soon damage the plastic. Hmm ... no experience with that so far. And you really should have a separate cover for the chuck area, because coolant or oil tends to walk along the workpiece and then get slung out by the chuck jaws. Hmm. Good point. Check that the splash lines line up with the chuck body, instead of being spread through where you actually do your cutting. :-) With Rustlick WS-5050 emulsion, the baby blue milky fluid, decoration of nearby surfaces isn't a disaster, but will eventually stain the surfaces. A carriage-mounted shield should cut this down a lot. Hmm ... perhaps get some rolls of the pre-painted aluminum used for siding and staple it to the wall and the ceiling where the stripes are trying to form. I did this where the surface grinder flings the overshoot -- complete with a V-fold at the bottom to capture the dry swarf so it can be swept into a container for disposal, instead of falling to the floor. I had been thinking of hanging some cheap fabric (like the muslin used for painter's dropcloths) to intercept the stripes. O.K. [ ... ] And patience after roughing to let it cool enough. I try to set things up so I just finish the roughing before being called to dinner, that way I have something to be doing while the workpiece cools. :-) I haven't been at the point where this would matter, at least not yet. But it will soon enough become something I need to worry about. I have -- and have made the mistake of not waiting long enough for it to cool off. I imagine I will too. One advantage of flooding with water emulsions is that things don't heat up that much. Agreed -- but you still should beware of heat effects if you are after a precise fit. As long as you are working steel, if you've got some magic way to get the measuring tools to the same temperature as the workpiece, you won't have to wait -- but I think that waiting is easier. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote: On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: Someday. The cross-slide is pretty much rectangular, so I suppose one could skip the casting and start with a block of cast iron. Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. On my 5914, the tool slide is 6.5" x 3" by 1.25" or so, so 4x5x2 would not work, sadly. Are you talking about the compound slide again? This is supposed to be be cross-slide -- first thing up from the carriage, and mine is 8-3/4" long, so there is no way that it would work. "Tool slide" is Clausing's name for it, being the topmost slide with a single large T-slot to which the toolpost is clamped, and which swings about a vertical pivot pin. The cross-slide outer dimensions are about 8.75" x 4" x 1.25", about the same as yours it seems. And *that* is the one which is supposed to be made with extra T-slots, not the compound slide (or tool slide depending on the phase of the moon.) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-21, Gunner wrote:
On 20 May 2008 03:39:12 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-19, Gunner Asch wrote: On 17 May 2008 22:17:33 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Well ... there are a pair of "hips" on mine to support the angle plate on the compound -- and there apparently are on the MLA casting for the South Bend as well, so I was presuming that there would be on yours as well. I do have about 100lbs of 4x5x2 well seasoned cast iron blocks from a lathe manufacturer. Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. Ive got some larger bits. Email me with the max dimensions you need. I'll have to skip the e-mail until I have a different address for you. I checked to see whether I had the domain (corrected by removing the obvious) blocked, and at the moment my nameserver can't look up your IP address, which means both that I can't reach you, and that a reply from you could not get back to me. I remember other e-mail conversations which just sort of died, I suspect from similar problems.. The absolute minimum size (with nothing for clean-up passes) would be 8-3/4 x 4-1/4" x 1-1/4", and the last really should be 1-3/4" to allow for greater thickness were I add the T-slots at the back. So, desired would be 9x4-1/2x2" to make it easy to clean up in all dimensions. If all else fails, the phone number in my .sig below is valid. Please don't call until the afternoon or evening, since I live a shifted time schedule. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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No longer about "Trepanning and Parting Off -- part 2"
On 2008-05-21, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 22:23:17 -0400, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: [ ... ] Hmm ... interesting sounding. I will have to check the overall length of the cross-slide casting -- but I think that it is well over 6", so the would not work. Sigh! Same for Joe, I believe. While there are differences between our machines, I would expect those dimensions to be pretty much the same. On my 5914, the tool slide is 6.5" x 3" by 1.25" or so, so 4x5x2 would not work, sadly. [ ... ] Ill check this coming weekend when Im back home again. He has lost track of what we were talking about. It needs to be a replacement for the cross-slide, not the tool slide (compound slide). So the figures which I just posted are what he will need, just as they are what I will need. 9"x4-1/2"x1-3/4" should be large enough to work as needed. Sadly..I passed on the 1000lbs of larger cast iron blocks Hmm ... how small were the smallest of those? Obviously, a 1000 lb block would be more than I need -- and more than I can do much with, too. I snagged these for making KDK type holders. O.K. The rest was scrapped....sigh Sigh, indeed. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Continuing lathe chatter (from people now, not the lathe. :-)
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: "References: " header folded into "X-references: " again. [ ... ] Ahh. Now it becomes clear -- buy a CNC lathe. To go one better, it must weigh at least 3000#. Got to have sufficient rigidity. Well ... My CNC lathe weighs something like 150-200 lbs. But it is only 5" swing, and a lot of the weight is the transformers in the sloped electronics housing which makes the backsplash panel as well as the control panel. The buttons especially are out of range of the splashes. :-) Only 200 pounds? What a let-down. The good news is that one can have a full-coverage splash shield, just like on those machining centers. This one has a box of electronics behind the lathe which controls splash to the back. There is a splash shield which is hinged to the front edge of the carriage just past the outermost travel of the cross-slide. The shield is a smokey plastic -- Lexan like I think -- which has a shape like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion of the shape: ______________ / \ / \ / / / O --- hinge I actually have two of them -- one full width all over, and the other with a cutout near the tailstock-end of the cover to clear the long motor which runs the (optional) tool turret. No coolant in this lathe, but the whole thing, including headstock and (DC) motor are in the chip pan, which extends back to where the electronics box starts. I did a quick search of eBay, but while there is a manual Comapct-5 being offered, there is no CNC version, which is much heavier overall, even though it uses the same bed, and mostly the same headstock. I've seen photos of this kind of hinged cover. I'll be learning the 5914 for at least a year. [ ... ] Do that and you reduce the rigidity of the mounting of the toolpost and encourage chatter. :-) Not by much, as the plate is in compression, and can be accurately machined. And, all the rigidity problems I've had so far have been associated with loose slideways. The length of unsupported tool shank can be a problem even. I'm against anything which reduces the rigidity of the toolpost assembly. I'm thinking a plate ~0.1" thick. O.K. But still what matters is the reduction in surface contact between the compound top and the toolpost bottom. I'm having a problem believing that such a spacer, if well made and not too thick, will materially affect the rigidity, compared to the slideways. O.K. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I just feel that *any* contribution to a loss of rigidity is to be avoided. The key is the "materially". I think that the three slideways in series are at best a tenth as rigid as even a 0.25" thick machined steel spacer. [ ... ] The Aloris BXA-71 uses a very stout blade, 1.5" high, but does not appear to be reversible - it has a one-sided bevel. O.K. No news [from Dorian] yet. O.K. I talked to Dorian Tool yesterday. They confirmed that both the 7-71C and the 71S cutoff blade holders can be mounted upsidedown, being drilled and tapped on both top and bottom to accept the height adjustment hardware. In fact, these holders can be mounted just about any way, between their symmetry and threaded holes top and bottom. I will get a 7-71C holder, SGIH 19-2 blade, and GTN-2 inserts. The 71S holder can accept far larger blades, but I decided that the 7-71C will solve the problem to the limits of the 5914 lathe. [ ... ] Hmm ... I have a shield which mounts on a rod on the back of the headstock and it swivels out of the way for loading, or down to control spray towards the operator. But it only works in the vicinity of the chuck. For a carriage mounted one, you want something like the T-slotted cross slide again. :-) Or drill and thread some mounting holes in the cast-iron cross-slide screw cover, which I've been considering. Hmm ... bear in mind that the cross-slide screw cover gets replaced when you put on the taper attachment -- at least for the plain taper attachment, and I think also for the telescoping taper attachment. And the existing cover is perhaps not rigid enough to resist fracture if someone bumps the shield in the wrong way. Perhaps mount it to the screws which secure the cover -- they go into more meat in the cross-slide. I was thinking something not so rigid, like a piece of copper or aluminum flashing, to be hand bent into shape as needed. But using the same screws as hold the cover is a good idea too. It's easy to dimple the copper to work with the big flat-head screws, but a ~5" long steel bar clamping the flashing to the cross slide may be a better way. It helps to have the shield clear, so you get more illumination through to the spindle, even if you can't see clearly. Go for something like Lexan, not something as brittle as Plexiglass. Ah. Thin lexan (polycarbonate) sheet it is, not metal. The Noga mist cooler does cause some drifting mist, which I find to cause a lot of coughing. I've taken to wearing a respirator to prevent breathing of the oil mist, but a better approach is required. From what I have read, the micro-drop is the best thing for this. So I've heard, but they are quite expensive. What alternatives are there? Other than making your own (which some here have done)? Hmm. Has anyone published pictures or plans? I think that there are some photos which were posted, but I did not bother to save a link. If you care enough, do a Google search for the newsgroup over the past five years I think should do it. OK. I may dimly recall the discussion. A breathing mask with air pumped in form somewhere else, if you want to keep using the mist. The 3M respirator is cheap enough, and work well, even if it makes me look like a preying mantis. Is that supplied air, or just depending on filters? I would suggest that supplied air would be less likely to clog during a long machining session. The mask uses filters. I don't think they will clog all that fast, as I am religious about running the mister only while actually needed. But we shall see. The filters are commonplace and cheap. The problem with supplied air is entanglement with the air hose. Maybe the solution is flood cooling plus a cover to catch what's flung off the workpiece. The cover need not be transparent, as even transparent covers will soon become opaque from the accumulated emulsion and crud. That could do it. Transparent still helps to see where the fresh coolant is currently hitting, so you can spot something going wrong. :-) Polycarbonate. And easily replaced, because the coolant will soon damage the plastic. Hmm ... no experience with that so far. Lexan is the brand name for one manufacturer's polycarbonate resin. My worry about damage comes from observing that polycarbonate windows soon become frosted-looking. This may be more due to UV in sunlight than chemical exposure, but polycarbonate is famous for low chemical resistance, and oils are hard on many transparent plastics. And you really should have a separate cover for the chuck area, because coolant or oil tends to walk along the workpiece and then get slung out by the chuck jaws. Hmm. Good point. Check that the splash lines line up with the chuck body, instead of being spread through where you actually do your cutting. :-) Currently, the splash line lines up with the chuck face, but I have not done much cutting anywhere else. My first attempt to turn a 1.5" diameter by 24" long 6061 bar between centers chattered badly, and I have not yet had time to figure out why. A piece of this same stock held in the 3-jaw chuck machined smoothly. [ ... ] And patience after roughing to let it cool enough. I try to set things up so I just finish the roughing before being called to dinner, that way I have something to be doing while the workpiece cools. :-) I haven't been at the point where this would matter, at least not yet. But it will soon enough become something I need to worry about. I have -- and have made the mistake of not waiting long enough for it to cool off. I imagine I will too. One advantage of flooding with water emulsions is that things don't heat up that much. Agreed -- but you still should beware of heat effects if you are after a precise fit. As long as you are working steel, if you've got some magic way to get the measuring tools to the same temperature as the workpiece, you won't have to wait -- but I think that waiting is easier. :-) I recall that the standards lab folk ran all their calibration resistors and resistance standards in stirred oil baths, precisely to control temperature effects. So, if we ran the lathe in an oil bath, we could both ensure temperature uniformity and provide true flood cooling to the cutter. And, with proper design, completely eliminate splatter lines. Joe Gwinn |
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#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Continuing lathe chatter / lathe shield
On Thu, 22 May 2008 00:06:35 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote: .... And the existing cover is perhaps not rigid enough to resist fracture if someone bumps the shield in the wrong way. Perhaps mount it to the screws which secure the cover -- they go into more meat in the cross-slide. I was thinking something not so rigid, like a piece of copper or aluminum flashing, to be hand bent into shape as needed. But using the same screws as hold the cover is a good idea too. It's easy to dimple the copper to work with the big flat-head screws, but a ~5" long steel bar clamping the flashing to the cross slide may be a better way. It helps to have the shield clear, so you get more illumination through to the spindle, even if you can't see clearly. Go for something like Lexan, not something as brittle as Plexiglass. .... Any of [1] PET (PETE), [2] PP, or [3] PS probably would remain clear (ie be less affected by oil and grease) better than [4] PC / Lexan. ([5] PMMA / Plexiglas presumably is out of the question already; as well as being much more brittle than PC, it deteriorates if oil enters cracks.) While the refs below say little about oil or other chemical resistance, other data I've seen for PET make me think it would be best for this application. You could make a frame to support pieces of PET cut from 2-liter pop bottles to avoid the cost of sheets of it. (Eg McMasters 8187K12, 2' x 4' x 0.004", $114) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypropylene [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylic_glass -jiw |
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#40
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Continuing lathe chatter (from people now, not the lathe. :-)
On 2008-05-22, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-05-21, Joseph Gwinn wrote: [ ... ] Only 200 pounds? What a let-down. The good news is that one can have a full-coverage splash shield, just like on those machining centers. This one has a box of electronics behind the lathe which controls splash to the back. There is a splash shield which is hinged to the front edge of the carriage just past the outermost travel of the cross-slide. The shield is a smokey plastic -- Lexan like I think -- which has a shape like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion of the shape: ______________ / \ / \ / / / O --- hinge I actually have two of them -- one full width all over, and the other with a cutout near the tailstock-end of the cover to clear the long motor which runs the (optional) tool turret. No coolant in this lathe, but the whole thing, including headstock and (DC) motor are in the chip pan, which extends back to where the electronics box starts. I did a quick search of eBay, but while there is a manual Compact-5 being offered, there is no CNC version, which is much heavier overall, even though it uses the same bed, and mostly the same headstock. I've seen photos of this kind of hinged cover. O.K. I'll be learning the 5914 for at least a year. Understood. I've been using my 5418 for perhaps a decade now. No room for anything larger. :-) [ ... ] The Aloris BXA-71 uses a very stout blade, 1.5" high, but does not appear to be reversible - it has a one-sided bevel. O.K. No news [from Dorian] yet. O.K. I talked to Dorian Tool yesterday. They confirmed that both the 7-71C and the 71S cutoff blade holders can be mounted upsidedown, being drilled and tapped on both top and bottom to accept the height adjustment hardware. In fact, these holders can be mounted just about any way, between their symmetry and threaded holes top and bottom. Sounds good! I will get a 7-71C holder, SGIH 19-2 blade, and GTN-2 inserts. The 71S holder can accept far larger blades, but I decided that the 7-71C will solve the problem to the limits of the 5914 lathe. Understood. [ ... ] And the existing cover is perhaps not rigid enough to resist fracture if someone bumps the shield in the wrong way. Perhaps mount it to the screws which secure the cover -- they go into more meat in the cross-slide. I was thinking something not so rigid, like a piece of copper or aluminum flashing, to be hand bent into shape as needed. But using the same screws as hold the cover is a good idea too. It's easy to dimple the copper to work with the big flat-head screws, but a ~5" long steel bar clamping the flashing to the cross slide may be a better way. It helps to have the shield clear, so you get more illumination through to the spindle, even if you can't see clearly. Go for something like Lexan, not something as brittle as Plexiglass. Ah. Thin lexan (polycarbonate) sheet it is, not metal. O.K. [ ... micro-drop cutting lube ... ] Other than making your own (which some here have done)? Hmm. Has anyone published pictures or plans? I think that there are some photos which were posted, but I did not bother to save a link. If you care enough, do a Google search for the newsgroup over the past five years I think should do it. OK. I may dimly recall the discussion. O.K. Next trick if finding it. :-) A breathing mask with air pumped in form somewhere else, if you want to keep using the mist. The 3M respirator is cheap enough, and work well, even if it makes me look like a preying mantis. Is that supplied air, or just depending on filters? I would suggest that supplied air would be less likely to clog during a long machining session. The mask uses filters. I don't think they will clog all that fast, as I am religious about running the mister only while actually needed. But we shall see. The filters are commonplace and cheap. The problem with supplied air is entanglement with the air hose. Overhead drop? Maybe the solution is flood cooling plus a cover to catch what's flung off the workpiece. The cover need not be transparent, as even transparent covers will soon become opaque from the accumulated emulsion and crud. That could do it. Transparent still helps to see where the fresh coolant is currently hitting, so you can spot something going wrong. :-) Polycarbonate. And easily replaced, because the coolant will soon damage the plastic. Hmm ... no experience with that so far. Lexan is the brand name for one manufacturer's polycarbonate resin. My worry about damage comes from observing that polycarbonate windows soon become frosted-looking. This may be more due to UV in sunlight than chemical exposure, but polycarbonate is famous for low chemical resistance, and oils are hard on many transparent plastics. IIRC, it is Plexiglass (acrylic) which tends to grow cracks along every stress line after contact with oil. And you really should have a separate cover for the chuck area, because coolant or oil tends to walk along the workpiece and then get slung out by the chuck jaws. Hmm. Good point. Check that the splash lines line up with the chuck body, instead of being spread through where you actually do your cutting. :-) Currently, the splash line lines up with the chuck face, but I have not done much cutting anywhere else. O.K. My first attempt to turn a 1.5" diameter by 24" long 6061 bar between centers chattered badly, and I have not yet had time to figure out why. A piece of this same stock held in the 3-jaw chuck machined smoothly. Freedom for the workpiece and dog tail to rotate a bit within the gap in the drive plate? I believe that it was common to take wet rawhide strips to tie it in contact with the driving face, and wait for that to dry before cutting. [ ... ] I imagine I will too. One advantage of flooding with water emulsions is that things don't heat up that much. Agreed -- but you still should beware of heat effects if you are after a precise fit. As long as you are working steel, if you've got some magic way to get the measuring tools to the same temperature as the workpiece, you won't have to wait -- but I think that waiting is easier. :-) I recall that the standards lab folk ran all their calibration resistors and resistance standards in stirred oil baths, precisely to control temperature effects. Of course, depending on the number of significant figures needed, you needed to control to within a small fraction of a degree. So, if we ran the lathe in an oil bath, we could both ensure temperature uniformity and provide true flood cooling to the cutter. And, with proper design, completely eliminate splatter lines. But you are back to needing supplied air to run it. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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