On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:40:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Years ago, at least 20, I snagged an elderly Marquette 110vt buzzbox.

Its always been an utter pain in the ass to weld with, as it seems to
be nearly unable to maintain an arc. Open voltage is right at 34
volts, not measured under load.

Data plate shows up to 90amps, 30volts open current, so it SHOULD be
able to burn 3/32 rod well enough. Line voltage is 124volts, on a 50
amp circuit. with a sag to 122volts when I strike an arc. Or try to.

There is no reactor(?) coil in the machine, just a hefty transformer,
with 3 taps, Low, Med, High

I dragged it out over the weekend and tried welding with it since my
skill level has increased a smidge since I got it .

Its still a pain in the ass. Even with 3/32 rod of various types, it
will bearly maintain an arch, but the rod turns red very quickly and
sags, even though it wont burn properly.

Is this an indication of too low an arc voltage, given that Ive good
reasonable current..enough to sag the rod.

Ive tried 1/16", and its not a hell of a lot better, with 6011/6013
etc being tried in all sizes.

Would I be served by making a reactor (?) choke(?)

Chuckle..this is simply a fun thing, as Ive got other..better..welders
to use.

Any of you technical guys give me a heads up ?

Gunner

Short answer: there isn't much you can do to make that box work well
because its open circuit voltage (o.c.v.) is so low.

Stick welding with a stable arc requires a power supply that is
essentially a current source -- that is, a power source where current
has little dependency on load (arc) voltage. Copper-iron
(non-electronic) machines do this with reactance in series with the
load. Higher reactance results in more constant current, but it also
requires higer o.c.v. to produce desired arc current.

The reactance may be a separate reactor, the result of deliberately
loose coupling in the transformer, or both. Arc current can then be
adjusted by adjusting or selecting reactance, o.c.v, or both.

One thing you can do with those little boxes is carbon arc brazing
when O/A equipment isn't available or you're outta gas and a long ways
from any.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:12:35 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:40:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Years ago, at least 20, I snagged an elderly Marquette 110vt buzzbox.

Its always been an utter pain in the ass to weld with, as it seems to
be nearly unable to maintain an arc. Open voltage is right at 34
volts, not measured under load.

Data plate shows up to 90amps, 30volts open current, so it SHOULD be
able to burn 3/32 rod well enough. Line voltage is 124volts, on a 50
amp circuit. with a sag to 122volts when I strike an arc. Or try to.

There is no reactor(?) coil in the machine, just a hefty transformer,
with 3 taps, Low, Med, High

I dragged it out over the weekend and tried welding with it since my
skill level has increased a smidge since I got it .

Its still a pain in the ass. Even with 3/32 rod of various types, it
will bearly maintain an arch, but the rod turns red very quickly and
sags, even though it wont burn properly.

Is this an indication of too low an arc voltage, given that Ive good
reasonable current..enough to sag the rod.

Ive tried 1/16", and its not a hell of a lot better, with 6011/6013
etc being tried in all sizes.

Would I be served by making a reactor (?) choke(?)

Chuckle..this is simply a fun thing, as Ive got other..better..welders
to use.

Any of you technical guys give me a heads up ?

Gunner

Short answer: there isn't much you can do to make that box work well
because its open circuit voltage (o.c.v.) is so low.

Stick welding with a stable arc requires a power supply that is
essentially a current source -- that is, a power source where current
has little dependency on load (arc) voltage. Copper-iron
(non-electronic) machines do this with reactance in series with the
load. Higher reactance results in more constant current, but it also
requires higer o.c.v. to produce desired arc current.

The reactance may be a separate reactor, the result of deliberately
loose coupling in the transformer, or both. Arc current can then be
adjusted by adjusting or selecting reactance, o.c.v, or both.

One thing you can do with those little boxes is carbon arc brazing
when O/A equipment isn't available or you're outta gas and a long ways
from any.

A thought: I wonder if running DC would help. I really don't know,
but it'd be easy enough to try. Scrounge up some big honkin'
rectifier diodes, maybe even sets of alternator diodes, and make a
bridge rectifier. Experiment with electrode polarity to see if one or
the other works better than AC with that box.

An aux reactor on the DC side might help considerably. That has a
different function than the reactance on the AC side; it serves to
keep the DC arc going during periods of zero voltage when the AC
supply reverses 120 times per second. I once made a reactor out of a
good-sized old transformer core, made the "winding" with strips of
roof flashing interleaved with brown kraft paper, this on a buzzbox
with a set of rectumfriers. A strip of .012" x 2" is about equivalent
to 6-gage wire and a hell of a lot easier to wind. It can also
handle more current because it has much more surface area for heat
dissipation.

It worked pretty well! I could even TIG with that kludge.

You did say this was a "just for fun" project, right? G

-----

Speaking of just for fun: yesterday a shootin' buddy showed me a
electromagnetic "cannon" he and his kid made. He scrounged a bunch of
disposable camera carcasses (with electronic flash) from a Walgreens,
telling them it was for a school project. Took the caps out of 4 or
5 of 'em, paralleled them up in one unit. Wound a coil around a
tube. Used the flashtube as sort of an ignitron-type "switch" to dump
the 300-volt caps thru the coil and flashtube. The thing shot a
clipped-off 4-penny nail quite a respectable distance in the parking
lot.

They made another one that is a ring launcher, launches an aluminum
washer out of a disc drive. It punts the washer maybe 18' -- but if
the washer is dunked in liquid nitrogen first (reduces resistivity)
it'd bounce it off the ceiling.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote: "make no mistake, we're put on Earth to fart
around." (Timequake)

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:19:26 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:12:35 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:40:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Years ago, at least 20, I snagged an elderly Marquette 110vt buzzbox.

Its always been an utter pain in the ass to weld with, as it seems to
be nearly unable to maintain an arc. Open voltage is right at 34
volts, not measured under load.

Data plate shows up to 90amps, 30volts open current, so it SHOULD be
able to burn 3/32 rod well enough. Line voltage is 124volts, on a 50
amp circuit. with a sag to 122volts when I strike an arc. Or try to.

There is no reactor(?) coil in the machine, just a hefty transformer,
with 3 taps, Low, Med, High

I dragged it out over the weekend and tried welding with it since my
skill level has increased a smidge since I got it .

Its still a pain in the ass. Even with 3/32 rod of various types, it
will bearly maintain an arch, but the rod turns red very quickly and
sags, even though it wont burn properly.

Is this an indication of too low an arc voltage, given that Ive good
reasonable current..enough to sag the rod.

Ive tried 1/16", and its not a hell of a lot better, with 6011/6013
etc being tried in all sizes.

Would I be served by making a reactor (?) choke(?)

Chuckle..this is simply a fun thing, as Ive got other..better..welders
to use.

Any of you technical guys give me a heads up ?

Gunner

Short answer: there isn't much you can do to make that box work well
because its open circuit voltage (o.c.v.) is so low.

Stick welding with a stable arc requires a power supply that is
essentially a current source -- that is, a power source where current
has little dependency on load (arc) voltage. Copper-iron
(non-electronic) machines do this with reactance in series with the
load. Higher reactance results in more constant current, but it also
requires higer o.c.v. to produce desired arc current.

The reactance may be a separate reactor, the result of deliberately
loose coupling in the transformer, or both. Arc current can then be
adjusted by adjusting or selecting reactance, o.c.v, or both.

One thing you can do with those little boxes is carbon arc brazing
when O/A equipment isn't available or you're outta gas and a long ways
from any.

A thought: I wonder if running DC would help. I really don't know,
but it'd be easy enough to try. Scrounge up some big honkin'
rectifier diodes, maybe even sets of alternator diodes, and make a
bridge rectifier. Experiment with electrode polarity to see if one or
the other works better than AC with that box.

An aux reactor on the DC side might help considerably. That has a
different function than the reactance on the AC side; it serves to
keep the DC arc going during periods of zero voltage when the AC
supply reverses 120 times per second. I once made a reactor out of a
good-sized old transformer core, made the "winding" with strips of
roof flashing interleaved with brown kraft paper, this on a buzzbox
with a set of rectumfriers. A strip of .012" x 2" is about equivalent
to 6-gage wire and a hell of a lot easier to wind. It can also
handle more current because it has much more surface area for heat
dissipation.

It worked pretty well! I could even TIG with that kludge.

You did say this was a "just for fun" project, right? G

Exactly. And Ive got some big honking diodes as a matter of fact...G

-----

Speaking of just for fun: yesterday a shootin' buddy showed me a
electromagnetic "cannon" he and his kid made. He scrounged a bunch of
disposable camera carcasses (with electronic flash) from a Walgreens,
telling them it was for a school project. Took the caps out of 4 or
5 of 'em, paralleled them up in one unit. Wound a coil around a
tube. Used the flashtube as sort of an ignitron-type "switch" to dump
the 300-volt caps thru the coil and flashtube. The thing shot a
clipped-off 4-penny nail quite a respectable distance in the parking
lot.

They made another one that is a ring launcher, launches an aluminum
washer out of a disc drive. It punts the washer maybe 18' -- but if
the washer is dunked in liquid nitrogen first (reduces resistivity)
it'd bounce it off the ceiling.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote: "make no mistake, we're put on Earth to fart
around." (Timequake)

Way cool!

Google "rail gun", lots of do-it-yourself projects and some really
cool stuff

Then there are CENTRIFUGAL GUNs using a spinning grooved plate....

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.