Been researching trailers and found this:
http://www.allstatetrailers.com/imag...sheet/30sa.pdf

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you
should put brakes on it?

Thanks again!

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:01:29 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Been researching trailers and found this:
http://www.allstatetrailers.com/imag...sheet/30sa.pdf

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Summing moments about the axle and assuming uniform load, tongue
weight is about 4.8% of load. That's a bit light, but workable.
10% to 15% is usually better. Just moving the load c.g. a bit
forward would increase tongue weight.

Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you
should put brakes on it?

Depends on applicable state law. In MN it's 1500 lb. A load
approaching 1500 lb without brakes significantly increases the
stopping distance of a 1/2 ton pickup tow vehicle, and it could be
dicey to drive in mountainous terrain.

On Apr 19, 4:01*pm, stryped wrote:
Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Congratulations! You are beginning to do the math. Notice how it's a
new language that explains how things -really- work?

Jim Wilkins

On Apr 19, 4:03*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:01:29 -0700 (PDT), stryped

wrote:
Been researching trailers and found this:
http://www.allstatetrailers.com/imag...sheet/30sa.pdf

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Summing moments about the axle and assuming uniform load, *tongue
weight is about 4.8% of load. *That's a bit light, but workable.
10% to 15% is usually *better. * Just moving the load c.g. *a bit
forward would increase tongue weight.



Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you
should put brakes on it?

Depends on applicable state law. *In MN it's 1500 lb. *A load
approaching 1500 lb without brakes *significantly increases the
stopping distance of a 1/2 ton pickup tow vehicle, *and it could *be
dicey to drive in mountainous terrain. *

Can you have too much tongue weight?

Maybe move that axle back six inches would work?

On Apr 19, 4:03*pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:01:29 -0700 (PDT), stryped

wrote:
Been researching trailers and found this:
http://www.allstatetrailers.com/imag...sheet/30sa.pdf

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Summing moments about the axle and assuming uniform load, *tongue
weight is about 4.8% of load. *That's a bit light, but workable.
10% to 15% is usually *better. * Just moving the load c.g. *a bit
forward would increase tongue weight.



Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you
should put brakes on it?

Depends on applicable state law. *In MN it's 1500 lb. *A load
approaching 1500 lb without brakes *significantly increases the
stopping distance of a 1/2 ton pickup tow vehicle, *and it could *be
dicey to drive in mountainous terrain. *

When is it ok to use a straight tongue with side supports and when is
it best to use an A frame with A frame coupler?

On Apr 19, 5:07*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 19, 4:01*pm, stryped wrote:

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Congratulations! You are beginning to do the math. Notice how it's a
new language that explains how things -really- work?

Jim Wilkins

If it "really" works why is that compnany building trailers that dont
comply with the 60/40 concept?

Can you have too much tongue weight?
Assuming the hitch on the tow vehicle has the proper rating, high
tongue weight is good. Witness a big rig trailer, the wheels are at
the extreme rear, the fifth wheel hitch at the front.

Maybe move that axle back six inches would work?
On the 14' trailer the ratios are ~46%-54% NOT including the tongue
weight. If you move the axle 6" the ratio is ~43%-57% assuming a
uniform load. In reality, it's the driver's job to position the load
properly. The trailer does not force you to load it correctly.

When is it ok to use a straight tongue with side supports and when is it best to use an A frame with A frame coupler?
An Engineer will look at the load on the tongue, if a single straight
bar will provide the needed strength, then that's it. Side supports
are needed some times, since the single bar is relatively weak in that
dimension, and can also fail by "falling over". Double bars in an "A"
configuration are stronger still. It all depends on the load.

If it "really" works why is that compnany building trailers that dont comply with the 60/40 concept?
It's your job to load a trailer correctly. Also, the distance from
the hitch to the axle determines several things.
A long distance will mean the trailer cannot make sharp turns, and
will "cut the corner". Long distance is MUCH easier to back, since it
is not very responsive. Long distance can mean more tongue weight, to
the point where light trucks are not able to carry a fully loaded
trailer.
OTOH, a short distance from axle to hitch can make tight corners, can
be nearly impossible to back up (try a double cab, long bed backing a
tent trailer).

The problem with an improperly loaded trailer is that it is unstable.
A tail heavy trailer will start to move sideways, then correct, then
correct, like a dog's tail. I watched a trailer on HWY 80 North of
Reno, tail heavy. He kept increasing the speed, until it went
unstable. The trailer was going side to side about 6', to the point
the load was shifting, and the trailer was on two wheels left, then
two wheels right. If the load hadn't dumped, it would have pulled the
tail of the truck off the hwy.

Travel trailer folks discuss this all the time, and know to hit the
trailer brakes, at any sign of wagging.

Dave

stryped wrote:
Been researching trailers and found this:
http://www.allstatetrailers.com/imag...sheet/30sa.pdf

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you
should put brakes on it?

Thanks again!


Stryped,

Take the total length of the BODY only and multiply by .4. You get
about 68. Yes, they have 78. That's about 10 inches difference. The
60/40 is a "rule of thumb" and doesn't have to be exact. You'll notice
they do not include the tongue. This reminds me. Does you 10' trailer
length include the tongue or are you allowing about 38 to 48" extra for
that?

Yes. You *should* put brakes on ANY trailer you plan to haul an 8N
tractor on. What are you planning to pull it with? As someone else
already mentioned the towing vehicle makes a lot of difference. If
you're pulling it with a 1 ton truck with dual wheels you *can* *get by*
without brakes a lot better than if you plan to pull it with a compact
automobile.

Al

On Apr 19, 8:24*pm, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:
Been researching trailers and found this:
http://www.allstatetrailers.com/imag...sheet/30sa.pdf

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you
should put brakes on it?

Thanks again!

Stryped,

Take the total length of the BODY only and multiply by .4. *You get
about 68. *Yes, they have 78. *That's about 10 inches difference. *The
60/40 is a "rule of thumb" and doesn't have to be exact. *You'll notice
they do not include the tongue. *This reminds me. *Does you 10' trailer
length include the tongue or are you allowing about 38 to 48" extra for
that?

Yes. *You *should* put brakes on ANY trailer you plan to haul an 8N
tractor on. What are you planning to pull it with? *As someone else
already mentioned the towing vehicle makes a lot of difference. *If
you're pulling it with a 1 ton truck with dual wheels you *can* *get by*
without brakes a lot better than if you plan to pull it with a compact
automobile.

Al

The 10 feet does not include the tongue. However, i am wondering if I
could take those 10 feet pieces, weld 2 to 4 feet on the ends of them
and make a 12 or 14 foot trailer. It was just a thought. (Again that
would be without the tongue). I am thinking a 42 - 48 inch tongue.

On Apr 19, 8:24*pm, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:
Been researching trailers and found this:
http://www.allstatetrailers.com/imag...sheet/30sa.pdf

Looking at the 14 foot long one, does it seem like the axle is not
placed right. I have been reading about how the ideal axle is placed
in a 60/40 configuration. This seems to have the back axle too far
forward? I like the trailer though.

Also, how heavy does a single axle trailer need to be before you
should put brakes on it?

Thanks again!

Stryped,

Take the total length of the BODY only and multiply by .4. *You get
about 68. *Yes, they have 78. *That's about 10 inches difference. *The
60/40 is a "rule of thumb" and doesn't have to be exact. *You'll notice
they do not include the tongue. *This reminds me. *Does you 10' trailer
length include the tongue or are you allowing about 38 to 48" extra for
that?

Yes. *You *should* put brakes on ANY trailer you plan to haul an 8N
tractor on. What are you planning to pull it with? *As someone else
already mentioned the towing vehicle makes a lot of difference. *If
you're pulling it with a 1 ton truck with dual wheels you *can* *get by*
without brakes a lot better than if you plan to pull it with a compact
automobile.

Al

Oh, my truck is a 96 chevy Silverado King cab with a 350 automatic and
4x4. It has a reciever hitch in the back.

"stryped" wrote in message
...


Can you have too much tongue weight?

Too much tongue weight can overload the hitch on the towing vehicle as well
as lighten the front wheels making steering harder. You loose steering
traction with less friction. An extreme example would be the front wheels
coming off the ground.

"stryped" wrote in message
...

When is it ok to use a straight tongue with side supports and when is
it best to use an A frame with A frame coupler?

A-frame tongue. All day long. I believe the angle is 50deg. Measure the
angle from a coupler off the shelf before you design.

On Apr 19, 7:22*pm, stryped wrote:
When is it ok to use a straight tongue with side supports and when is
it best to use an A frame with A frame coupler?

I made an extended hitch for my garden tractor that moved the ball far
enough back to let the straight tongue of the trailer clear the rear
wheels of the tractor when they are at right angles to each other.
This lets me turn very tightly deep in the woods, where I should be
logging right now instead of wasting time on the computer.

Jim Wilkins

johnnytorch wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...

When is it ok to use a straight tongue with side supports and when is
it best to use an A frame with A frame coupler?

A-frame tongue. All day long. I believe the angle is 50deg. Measure the
angle from a coupler off the shelf before you design.

For the back-yard weldor the A-frame has the disadvantage of
concentrating the load on the welds. The straight tongue, extended,
relies more on the strength of the tongue itself.

The straight tongue

+-----------+
| |
| -----+---------
| |
+-----------+

The A-frame:

+-----------+`.
| | `-.
| | ,"
| | ,-"
+-----------+,"

A hybrid would be my preference:

+----------.=---------+
| "--._ |
| ""-.|
| |""-.__
| | "-.._
| | __,-"
| |__,-"
| __,-"
| __,-" |
+-----------"---------+


Bob

BTW- ASCII art via JavE:
http://www.jave.de/
Please, no anti-Java rants

On 2008-04-20, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
johnnytorch wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...

When is it ok to use a straight tongue with side supports and when is
it best to use an A frame with A frame coupler?

A-frame tongue. All day long. I believe the angle is 50deg. Measure the
angle from a coupler off the shelf before you design.

For the back-yard weldor the A-frame has the disadvantage of
concentrating the load on the welds. The straight tongue, extended,
relies more on the strength of the tongue itself.

The straight tongue

+-----------+
| |
| -----+---------
| |
+-----------+

The A-frame:

+-----------+`.
| | `-.
| | ,"
| | ,-"
+-----------+,"

A hybrid would be my preference:

+----------.=---------+
| "--._ |
| ""-.|
| |""-.__
| | "-.._
| | __,-"
| |__,-"
| __,-"
| __,-" |
+-----------"---------+


Here's my own design

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...d/02-Drawings/

It is a combination of both A and straight.

The final result had the tip of "A" a little closer to the towing eye end.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...-0014.jpg.html

The sides are 2x4x1/8", the middle straight beam is 2x3x1/8".

This has an advantage of supporting the bed a little better and
distributing stresses.

i

Bob

BTW- ASCII art via JavE:
http://www.jave.de/
Please, no anti-Java rants

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
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On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:56:03 -0500, Ignoramus22545
wrote:




Here's my own design

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...d/02-Drawings/

It is a combination of both A and straight.

That's a good design. A for lateral bracing, cantilevered tongue for
tongue weight and pull.

On 2008-04-20, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:56:03 -0500, Ignoramus22545
wrote:




Here's my own design

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...d/02-Drawings/

It is a combination of both A and straight.

That's a good design. A for lateral bracing, cantilevered tongue for
tongue weight and pull.

Thanks Don. I changed it a little by the time I actually made the
frame, specifically, I moved the crossmember in the middle farther
back, to be right under the axle. I also moved the top of "A" to be a
little closer to the lunette ring.

My main reason for choosing this design, was a hope that if some of my
welds turn out to be bad, the trailer would not fall apart instantly
under some sudden stress. Even if all welds at the base of A failed,
the 3x4 would twist but it would not break, or so I hope. I think that
under normal conditions, the 3x4 takes most of the load.

It cost me more money and weight than a regular A, but, I hope, it
would one day save me from my own mistakes.

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
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On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:33:31 -0500, Ignoramus22545
wrote:

On 2008-04-20, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:56:03 -0500, Ignoramus22545
wrote:




Here's my own design

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...d/02-Drawings/

It is a combination of both A and straight.

That's a good design. A for lateral bracing, cantilevered tongue for
tongue weight and pull.

Thanks Don. I changed it a little by the time I actually made the
frame, specifically, I moved the crossmember in the middle farther
back, to be right under the axle. I also moved the top of "A" to be a
little closer to the lunette ring.

My main reason for choosing this design, was a hope that if some of my
welds turn out to be bad, the trailer would not fall apart instantly
under some sudden stress. Even if all welds at the base of A failed,
the 3x4 would twist but it would not break, or so I hope. I think that
under normal conditions, the 3x4 takes most of the load.

It cost me more money and weight than a regular A, but, I hope, it
would one day save me from my own mistakes.

Part of why it's a good design: it factors in the process used. We
are not professional welders with a million miles of bead behind us.
It's always better to underestimate our welding skill than to
overestimate it. We'll probably be right more often than not.