I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...

Lew Hartswick wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...

A "troll" is subjective and is whatever certain people decide to declare
it/her/him to be. ;-)

The language is living, as some also declare the constitution to be, so
the definition must also be living and will change from time to time as
the "troll definer" matures or regresses.

I've observed certain folks declare someone else to be a troll and it
seems to generally be someone who has just said something "they" don't
want discussed - sort of like the ANTI Defamation League (ADL) DEFAMING
folks who don't see things their way! :-)

Chances are *you* will be called a *troll* for bringing up the issue as
well as myself for responding to it - should someone declare my answer
to be *unacceptable*!

Good Day! Just my (? over priced) $0.02 worth.

Al

I think this sums it up fairly well...
JR
Dweller in the cellar

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 08:16:58 -0600, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

In article , Lew Hartswick wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
(lengthy) http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:24:49 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
... Lew Hartswick lhartswick... wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years so "know"
what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone who hasent been
around, in simple terms the phenomenon? Using e-mail so I don't want a
"long winded" explaination. Preferably not too insulting. :-)

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (lengthy)
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

wikipedia also has a nice picture of a troll, at
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...emontTroll.jpg
-jiw

"Lew Hartswick" wrote in message
m...
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...

Someone who is trying to stir up ****, and is really not looking for the
answer to the question?

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
Someone who is trying to stir up ****, and is really not looking for the
answer to the question?

That is as good a one-sentence definition as we are going to get.


In general (with some notable exceptions) trolls and spammers share two
characteristics

1) A one-way conversation. They don't care what you have to say, and you will
never change their behavior with mere written words. They are only interested
in their own agenda, not yours.

2) They are both deadly afraid of your disinterest. Therefore, your biggest
weapon against them is a disinterested yawn. Ignore them and they will dry up
and blow away.

Simple Net Rules:

- Never, never do business with a spammer or anyone you suspect may be a
spammer. It only encourages them.

- Do not reply to trolls. It only encourages them.

Vaughn

Doug Miller wrote:

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
"is someone who posts .. or to generally disrupt normal on-topic
discussion..."

Normal discussion may become stagnant, and any new ideas or information
is then disruptive:
a) If the disruption is subjectively positive to the reader, then it is
an outstanding post.
b) If the disruption is subjectively negative to the reader, then it is
a troll.

There is a subjective line between a post that is interesting, fresh,
and exiting, and one that is boring, ridiculous, and obnoxious.

Drawing the line by moderators is a driver in the maturity of a forum:
1) New posters are indulged.
2) Forum dies or grows to critical mass.
3) Moderators and key regular posters discourage other points of view.
4) Forum goes into stagnation.

There can be giant successful stagnant forums that make money and serve
as a social club for the mediocre.

New forums are always being formed as a spin off to escape the
oppression of the Draconian moderation of a large stagnant forum.

Unmoderated forums, like here at rec.crafts.metalworking, can be
overwhelmed with spam and off topic discussion.

The identification and controlling trolls then has an analogous set of
trade offs with:
1) Governments establishing law and order without creating a police state.
2) The immune system fighting pathogens without causing allergies or
autoimmune diseases.

What does it all mean?
What is a troll, is subjective.
You can't live with trolls and you can't live without them.

Lew Hartswick wrote:

I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...

Cliff, TMT, Millright Ron, Hawke?

Sometimes showing examples is easier than putting it into words.

Wes

Wes wrote:
Lew Hartswick wrote:


I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...


Cliff, TMT, Millright Ron, Hawke?

Sometimes showing examples is easier than putting it into words.

Wes
Yes I recognize the above set but was looking for a short but
succinct definition that I could post to a party.
I think I can summerize the content of the replies here and send
it to the person.
Thanks for the ideas everyone.
...lew...

On Apr 13, 12:32 pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message

...

Someone who is trying to stir up ****, and is really not looking for the
answer to the question?

That is as good a one-sentence definition as we are going to get.

In general (with some notable exceptions) trolls and spammers share two
characteristics

1) A one-way conversation. They don't care what you have to say, and you will
never change their behavior with mere written words. They are only interested
in their own agenda, not yours.

2) They are both deadly afraid of your disinterest. Therefore, your biggest
weapon against them is a disinterested yawn. Ignore them and they will dry up
and blow away.

Simple Net Rules:

- Never, never do business with a spammer or anyone you suspect may be a
spammer. It only encourages them.

- Do not reply to trolls. It only encourages them.

Vaughn

Sounds like Cliff to me

"Lew Hartswick" wrote in message
m...
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...

someone who does it for the lulz.....

Lew Hartswick wrote:

Yes I recognize the above set but was looking for a short but
succinct definition that I could post to a party.
I think I can summerize the content of the replies here and send
it to the person.

I'm afraid it is like obcenity, you know it when you see it and each persons
standards can vary quite widely.

Wes

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:09:26 -0500, James Waldby wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:24:49 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
... Lew Hartswick lhartswick... wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years so "know"
what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone who hasent been
around, in simple terms the phenomenon? Using e-mail so I don't want a
"long winded" explaination. Preferably not too insulting. :-)

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (lengthy)
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

wikipedia also has a nice picture of a troll, at
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...emontTroll.jpg
-jiw


Now that...that is WAY cool. Where is it?

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:37:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:09:26 -0500, James Waldby wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:24:49 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
... Lew Hartswick lhartswick... wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years so "know"
what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone who hasent been
around, in simple terms the phenomenon? Using e-mail so I don't want a
"long winded" explaination. Preferably not too insulting. :-)

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (lengthy)
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

wikipedia also has a nice picture of a troll, at
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...emontTroll.jpg
-jiw


Now that...that is WAY cool. Where is it?
Under the Fremont bridge, of course! (Seattle)

Bob

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:09:26 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Doug
Miller wrote:
... Lew Hartswick lhartswick... wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years so "know"
what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone who hasent been
around, in simple terms the phenomenon? Using e-mail so I don't want a
"long winded" explaination. Preferably not too insulting. :-)

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (lengthy)

The first paragraph explains it in a nutshell, guys.

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who
posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an
online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the
intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to
generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

Cliff, TMT, Millwright Ron, Parakeet, and Stryper are all trolls.
And guys here on RCM must have made 1,000 replies to their crap -just-
in the past month. It's oh, so tiring.

--
Save the whales! Trade them for valuable prizes.

"SteveB" wrote in
:

That is scary and sad. Can you imagine what it would be like to BE
Cliff? To eat, sleep, breathe and exist for Usenet conspiracy and
controversy discussion.

What word describes scary plus sad?

Pathetic?

No, that's not it.

Suggestions, anyone?


Cliff - he's all of that.

Hawke - he's all of that and constipated as well.

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
On Apr 13, 12:32 pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message

...

Someone who is trying to stir up ****, and is really not looking for
the
answer to the question?

That is as good a one-sentence definition as we are going to get.

In general (with some notable exceptions) trolls and spammers share two
characteristics

1) A one-way conversation. They don't care what you have to say, and you
will
never change their behavior with mere written words. They are only
interested
in their own agenda, not yours.

2) They are both deadly afraid of your disinterest. Therefore, your
biggest
weapon against them is a disinterested yawn. Ignore them and they will
dry up
and blow away.

Simple Net Rules:

- Never, never do business with a spammer or anyone you suspect may be a
spammer. It only encourages them.

- Do not reply to trolls. It only encourages them.

Vaughn

Sounds like Cliff to me

That is scary and sad. Can you imagine what it would be like to BE Cliff?
To eat, sleep, breathe and exist for Usenet conspiracy and controversy
discussion.

What word describes scary plus sad?

Pathetic?

No, that's not it.

Suggestions, anyone?

Steve

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:08:48 -0700, Bob wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:37:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:09:26 -0500, James Waldby wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:24:49 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
... Lew Hartswick lhartswick... wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years so "know"
what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone who hasent been
around, in simple terms the phenomenon? Using e-mail so I don't want
a "long winded" explaination. Preferably not too insulting. :-)

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (lengthy)
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

wikipedia also has a nice picture of a troll, at
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...emontTroll.jpg -jiw


Now that...that is WAY cool. Where is it?
Under the Fremont bridge, of course! (Seattle)

For some reason, it's actually under the Aurora Bridge (per
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremont_Troll), but close to
Fremont Bridge. The web page says "It is clutching an actual
original Volkswagen Beetle [with] a California license plate."

-jiw

On Apr 14, 5:52*am, pyotr filipivich wrote:

* * * * More specifically, a troll is someone who would rather cause an
argument than contribute to the discussion. *Most of theme are
communists. :-)
pyotr filipivich

Or sovoks, bitter communist apologists. It's shortened from a longer
legitimate word but literally it means "dustpan", as in "...dustbin of
history".

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:37:55 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:09:26 -0500, James Waldby wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:24:49 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
... Lew Hartswick lhartswick... wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years so "know"
what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone who hasent been
around, in simple terms the phenomenon? Using e-mail so I don't want a
"long winded" explaination. Preferably not too insulting. :-)

Good explanations he
(short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll (lengthy)
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killf..._troll_faq.htm

wikipedia also has a nice picture of a troll, at
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...emontTroll.jpg
-jiw


Now that...that is WAY cool. Where is it?

Under the Aurora Street Bridge, (not the Fremont Bridge; that
would make sense.) west of the Fremont district, which is in north
Seattle, just over the Ship Canal.
Fremont is also the home of the largest statue of Lenin outside of
the old Soviet Union. Which makes sense, as the Fremonters tend to
believe "Soviet of Washington" has a nice ring to it, and would be a
really groovey ideal.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Al Patrick
wrote on Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:58:41 -0400 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
Lew Hartswick wrote:
I've been reading news groups and BBs for close to 20 years
so "know" what a troll is but how do I describe, to someone
who hasent been around, in simple terms the phenomenon?
Using e-mail so I don't want a "long winded" explaination.
Preferably not too insulting. :-)
...lew...

A "troll" is subjective and is whatever certain people decide to declare
it/her/him to be. ;-)

The language is living, as some also declare the constitution to be, so
the definition must also be living and will change from time to time as
the "troll definer" matures or regresses.

I've observed certain folks declare someone else to be a troll and it
seems to generally be someone who has just said something "they" don't
want discussed - sort of like the ANTI Defamation League (ADL) DEFAMING
folks who don't see things their way! :-)

Chances are *you* will be called a *troll* for bringing up the issue as
well as myself for responding to it - should someone declare my answer
to be *unacceptable*!

Good Day! Just my (? over priced) $0.02 worth.

Trolls, like weeds, are posting that are where they do not belong.

More specifically, a troll is someone who would rather cause an
argument than contribute to the discussion. Most of theme are
communists. :-)

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:44:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:



Now that...that is WAY cool. Where is it?

Under the Aurora Street Bridge, (not the Fremont Bridge; that
would make sense.) west of the Fremont district, which is in north
Seattle, just over the Ship Canal.
Fremont is also the home of the largest statue of Lenin outside of
the old Soviet Union. Which makes sense, as the Fremonters tend to
believe "Soviet of Washington" has a nice ring to it, and would be a
really groovey ideal.


How come its not covered with grafittie?

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:07:14 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:44:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:



Now that...that is WAY cool. Where is it?

Under the Aurora Street Bridge, (not the Fremont Bridge; that
would make sense.) west of the Fremont district, which is in north
Seattle, just over the Ship Canal.
Fremont is also the home of the largest statue of Lenin outside of
the old Soviet Union. Which makes sense, as the Fremonters tend to
believe "Soviet of Washington" has a nice ring to it, and would be a
really groovey ideal.


How come its not covered with grafittie?

Gunner

It ate 'em?

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:07:14 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:44:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:



Now that...that is WAY cool. Where is it?

Under the Aurora Street Bridge, (not the Fremont Bridge; that
would make sense.) west of the Fremont district, which is in north
Seattle, just over the Ship Canal.
Fremont is also the home of the largest statue of Lenin outside of
the old Soviet Union. Which makes sense, as the Fremonters tend to
believe "Soviet of Washington" has a nice ring to it, and would be a
really groovey ideal.


How come its not covered with grafittie?

Ah, this is a sacred site. And that great goddess Gaia protects
it. That or there really are trolls under the bridge. (Is not to
far from Ballard, where "mixed marriage" means a Swede and a Norwegian
getting married. And "Ya shur you betcha" is one word.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries