Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.

I need :

(1) 400 amp 480volt 3ph sub panel with 6 + breaker positions
(2) 200 amp 480vt 3ph sub with 6-10 breakers
(1) 200 amp single phase sub, with 20-48 breaker positions

400' 6x6 raceway

Got any suggestions for surplus sources?

Ive got a call into Romac, but they havent called back with
availability.

If I have to, Ill buy the subs new..but would rather not.

Raceway...shrug...Im pulling several hundred feed of 3x 2/0 cable to
the subs from the distro. Conduit will work of course, but would
rather use raceway

35,000 empty building Ive got to install a factory in, next to the
Fullerton Airport

Every bit of copper has been removed from the building..buss bars in
all the sub panels, wire... only thing they didnt steal was the 277
lighting circuits and the 800 amp distro

Im having to bring in a 25kva transformer from my Piles O stuff to
step 480 down to 110, just to get construction power.

Lots of empty conduit hanging 18' up.

I already rented a manlift and a forklift.


Gunner




"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:58:04 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.

I need :

(1) 400 amp 480volt 3ph sub panel with 6 + breaker positions
(2) 200 amp 480vt 3ph sub with 6-10 breakers
(1) 200 amp single phase sub, with 20-48 breaker positions

400' 6x6 raceway

Got any suggestions for surplus sources?

Just the usual suspects - Bernards Brothers.

Ive got a call into Romac, but they havent called back with
availability.

If I have to, Ill buy the subs new..but would rather not.

Raceway...shrug...Im pulling several hundred feed of 3x 2/0 cable to
the subs from the distro. Conduit will work of course, but would
rather use raceway

Conduit is fine for feeders from the Main to a sub-panel, once you
get it built it isn't going to be changed. You'll add another Sub
next to it for more load and more breaker spaces.

Raceway will be more useful between the sub-panels and the rows of
equipment where it will be changed and modified on a regular basis.

And if you don't want to use raceway, look at cable tray and BX/MC
Cable between the panel and the equipment, see if the local inspector
will allow it. Easy to run, just drop tray rated BX in the tray and
ty-rap it down on the vertical risers and every so far on the
horizontal to keep it neatly in place. It's safer to make changes
with the power on and everything running, because it isn't loose wires
in a duct, everything is individually armored.

You can even move a machine closer to the panel, and make a loop to
lose the slack cable in the cable tray.

35,000 empty building Ive got to install a factory in, next to the
Fullerton Airport

Every bit of copper has been removed from the building..buss bars in
all the sub panels, wire... only thing they didnt steal was the 277
lighting circuits and the 800 amp distro

Probably smart enough to realize they might still be hot.

First thing after you get working power is to get a hot phone line
and get a basic perimeter and motion sensors burglar and fire alarm
system running, with central station, even if it's cobbled together
for the construction phase. Now that you're bringing in a few tons of
fresh copper and equipment, they may well come back for an encore.

Im having to bring in a 25kva transformer from my Piles O stuff to
step 480 down to 110, just to get construction power.

Lots of empty conduit hanging 18' up.

Take the time to number it, blow in pull strings, determine where it
all goes and make a road-map. Poly String is cheap in the 6KFT
buckets, and even cheaper if you can get the refill balls - but when
you pull and the other end moves you are sure where it goes. It's a
whole lot easier to rehab the existing conduit and use it where you
can, rather than starting from scratch.

You know how to blow or suck the string through with a chunk of rag
and a good shop vac, right?

And use Mule Tape with the footage marked for the final string, so
you can order wire pre-cut at the right lengths for the run.

I already rented a manlift and a forklift.

If they have high-bay lighting, remember the thing about broken
metal-halide lamp outer envelopes and UV third-degree sunburn.
Happens really fast.

Oh, and the other thing - Never nail up a MH light fixture to a
breaker and let it run 24/7/365, or the lamp capsule will eventually
burst. All MH lamps need to be cycled off for 10 minutes or so at
least once a week. If you want night-lights use fluorescent, they
last a LOT longer than 12K Hours when they're always on...

How about air lines? Copper, ring mains, lots of shut-off valves to
segment and isolate for fixing leaks or adding drops, separate risers
for separate compressors...

Proper Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance. :-P

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:16:27 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:58:04 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.

I need :

(1) 400 amp 480volt 3ph sub panel with 6 + breaker positions
(2) 200 amp 480vt 3ph sub with 6-10 breakers
(1) 200 amp single phase sub, with 20-48 breaker positions

400' 6x6 raceway

Got any suggestions for surplus sources?

Just the usual suspects - Bernards Brothers.

Who/where are they?

Ive got a call into Romac, but they havent called back with
availability.

If I have to, Ill buy the subs new..but would rather not.

Raceway...shrug...Im pulling several hundred feed of 3x 2/0 cable to
the subs from the distro. Conduit will work of course, but would
rather use raceway

Conduit is fine for feeders from the Main to a sub-panel, once you
get it built it isn't going to be changed. You'll add another Sub
next to it for more load and more breaker spaces.

Indeed.

Raceway will be more useful between the sub-panels and the rows of
equipment where it will be changed and modified on a regular basis.

Im only going to have 5 machines on that 400 amp sub. 50hp motors eat
up a lot of juice.....

And if you don't want to use raceway, look at cable tray and BX/MC
Cable between the panel and the equipment, see if the local inspector
will allow it. Easy to run, just drop tray rated BX in the tray and
ty-rap it down on the vertical risers and every so far on the
horizontal to keep it neatly in place. It's safer to make changes
with the power on and everything running, because it isn't loose wires
in a duct, everything is individually armored.

True. But I bought 1200lbs of surplus (still on the spools), most of
which is 2/0, with a couple or 3 hundred pounds of 10ga stranded in
the usual colors.

You can even move a machine closer to the panel, and make a loop to
lose the slack cable in the cable tray.

35,000 empty building Ive got to install a factory in, next to the
Fullerton Airport

Every bit of copper has been removed from the building..buss bars in
all the sub panels, wire... only thing they didnt steal was the 277
lighting circuits and the 800 amp distro

Probably smart enough to realize they might still be hot.

Its a shame. Burglar Flambe is one of my favorites. Hear about the
FBI/OC swat team that nailed 3 perps a couple weekends ago down near
El Toro? Seems they were going to hold an exercise in a closed Fed
building..and a hundred heavily armed guys with at least 10 K-9 dogs
walked in on 3 dumb *******s stripping the wire out of the
building....

2 surrendered instantly..one ran. All 10 handlers let go their
dogs.....snicker....

First thing after you get working power is to get a hot phone line
and get a basic perimeter and motion sensors burglar and fire alarm
system running, with central station, even if it's cobbled together
for the construction phase. Now that you're bringing in a few tons of
fresh copper and equipment, they may well come back for an encore.

Already done. Front office had power and an alarm. The back factory
has been added. Plus..Ill be mostly living there for the next few
weeks. Any perspective perps might wish for the dogs....

Im having to bring in a 25kva transformer from my Piles O stuff to
step 480 down to 110, just to get construction power.

Lots of empty conduit hanging 18' up.

Take the time to number it, blow in pull strings, determine where it
all goes and make a road-map. Poly String is cheap in the 6KFT
buckets, and even cheaper if you can get the refill balls - but when
you pull and the other end moves you are sure where it goes. It's a
whole lot easier to rehab the existing conduit and use it where you
can, rather than starting from scratch.

You know how to blow or suck the string through with a chunk of rag
and a good shop vac, right?

Of course. Plus I dug out my old Jet-Line..co2 cartridge string
puller launcher...G

And use Mule Tape with the footage marked for the final string, so
you can order wire pre-cut at the right lengths for the run.

Its on my list for Monday or Tuesday.

I already rented a manlift and a forklift.

If they have high-bay lighting, remember the thing about broken
metal-halide lamp outer envelopes and UV third-degree sunburn.
Happens really fast.

Oh, and the other thing - Never nail up a MH light fixture to a
breaker and let it run 24/7/365, or the lamp capsule will eventually
burst. All MH lamps need to be cycled off for 10 minutes or so at
least once a week. If you want night-lights use fluorescent, they
last a LOT longer than 12K Hours when they're always on...

This and the above, I didnt know. There are 3 globe fixtures hanging.
Ill check to see if they are halide or mercury vapor.

How about air lines? Copper, ring mains, lots of shut-off valves to
segment and isolate for fixing leaks or adding drops, separate risers
for separate compressors...

Ayup. Ive got all that to install as well. There is some..some air
piping overhead. And they will be delivering the new Kiaser screw
compressor early in the week.
I loaded my very elderly Oster electric pipe threader earlier this
evening.

Proper Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance. :-P

-- Bruce --

Indeed

Thanks for the heads up about Bernards Brothers. Now if you will only
tell me who they are....G

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner,
If you don't mind me snopping in on your post, try these guys. I
never dealt with them but a friend of mine did. He sold them a 600A
480V switch.

http://www.surplusrecord.com/electric.htm


On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:58:04 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.

I need :

(1) 400 amp 480volt 3ph sub panel with 6 + breaker positions
(2) 200 amp 480vt 3ph sub with 6-10 breakers
(1) 200 amp single phase sub, with 20-48 breaker positions

400' 6x6 raceway

Got any suggestions for surplus sources?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:39:25 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:16:27 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:58:04 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.
Got any suggestions for surplus sources?

Just the usual suspects - Bernards Brothers.

Who/where are they?

Electrical Equipment surplus - think "wrecking yard". Apex Surplus
Lite, but they don't want you wandering in their Stacks.

16123 Cohasset, Van Nuys (east side of VNY airport) 818/787-9303

If you need more places to check: http://www.pearl1.org/

Raceway will be more useful between the sub-panels and the rows of
equipment where it will be changed and modified on a regular basis.

Im only going to have 5 machines on that 400 amp sub. 50hp motors eat
up a lot of juice.....

Sounds like the opposite at a customer's shop - the previous owners
did vacuum metalizing on plastic. Bad boy sucked down 400A 480V.

Now they have a 600A 277/480 Y service with practically nothing on
it, and their 400A 120/240 Delta service gets hit with a demand charge
bump from the AC loads every August/September. Need to shift some
more AC load over to the 480 with a transformer...

True. But I bought 1200lbs of surplus (still on the spools), most of
which is 2/0, with a couple or 3 hundred pounds of 10ga stranded in
the usual colors.

Well, put the gutter runs where the big iron sits, and you can use
cable tray and MC-Cable for the bench tools aisle in the corner.

If you didn't have the wire, I'd say Bus Duct and plug-in disconnect
taps for the big machines. But that stuff is /really/ pricy if you
have to pay full freight - they put it on car assembly lines so they
can swap out gear overnight.

Its a shame. Burglar Flambe is one of my favorites. Hear about the
FBI/OC swat team that nailed 3 perps a couple weekends ago down near
El Toro? Seems they were going to hold an exercise in a closed Fed
building..and a hundred heavily armed guys with at least 10 K-9 dogs
walked in on 3 dumb *******s stripping the wire out of the
building....

2 surrendered instantly..one ran. All 10 handlers let go their
dogs.....snicker....

Ouch! Bet he was wishing Santa gave him a "Red Man" suit for Xmas...

First thing after you get working power is to get a hot phone line
and get a basic perimeter and motion sensors burglar and fire alarm
system running, with central station, even if it's cobbled together
for the construction phase. Now that you're bringing in a few tons of
fresh copper and equipment, they may well come back for an encore.

Already done. Front office had power and an alarm. The back factory
has been added. Plus..Ill be mostly living there for the next few
weeks. Any perspective perps might wish for the dogs....

Get some Glaser Safety Slugs - you don't want to muss up all your
hard work. Do they come in 12-Ga? Nahh, first up the spout is a
"Dragon's Breath" shell to get their complete attention. O_o

Do like GTE did - make one direct inward POTS phone line (NOT over
Fiber or Pair Gain, hard-wired) available in both buildings with a
"Wake The Dead" gong ringer and signs that say "No matter who you are,
If the Red Phone rings, answer it." If the alarm goes off the Central
Station will call to see what's up, and if nobody answers then they
can send the Cavalry.

Leave it up permanently, it's useful for power and phone system
failures. GTE had them on hardwired Foreign Exchange circuits from
another switchroom, in case the entire building flat-lined.

Remember that not all the sub-contractors or new employees will (or
even should) know the arm/disarm codes or the "Secret Password" for
the alarm. Since the cops are charging for false alarms in most
locales, the central station folks will have to judge the answering
party on voracity - if you are supposed to be in the building you'll
know some facts a crook won't.

How about air lines? Copper, ring mains, lots of shut-off valves to
segment and isolate for fixing leaks or adding drops, separate risers
for separate compressors...

Ayup. Ive got all that to install as well. There is some..some air
piping overhead. And they will be delivering the new Kiaser screw
compressor early in the week.

Only one? No old 10-Hp 2-stage Ingersoll or Quincy thumper as a
backup? "**** Happens, Depth Varies" Have a shovel handy.

If they have friendly next-door neighbors with another big
compressor you could core-drill a hole, and rig up a 1" line as an "Aw
****!" air source that could be used in either direction.

I loaded my very elderly Oster electric pipe threader earlier this
evening.

Is that anything like Dad's old Sunbeam 7-1/4" finish saw from White
Front? I got a Skil Mag77 for "real work", but that ZAMAC bodied
left-handed saw will probably outlive both of us.

-- Bruce --

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:03:49 -0500, Randy wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:58:04 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.

I need :

(1) 400 amp 480volt 3ph sub panel with 6 + breaker positions
(2) 200 amp 480vt 3ph sub with 6-10 breakers
(1) 200 amp single phase sub, with 20-48 breaker positions

400' 6x6 raceway

Got any suggestions for surplus sources?

Gunner,
If you don't mind me snopping in on your post, try these guys. I
never dealt with them but a friend of mine did. He sold them a 600A
480V switch.

http://www.surplusrecord.com/electric.htm

You aren't snooping - we're both always open to better ideas. When
you get a bit "seasoned" the credo is "Work smarter, not harder."

-- Bruce --

Bruce L. Bergman wrote in
:

If you didn't have the wire, I'd say Bus Duct and plug-in disconnect
taps for the big machines. But that stuff is /really/ pricy if you
have to pay full freight - they put it on car assembly lines so they
can swap out gear overnight.

Prices have gone thru the roof on that stuff of late. Last 200A plug-in bus
box I bought in June was $1200+! and that's _with_ our substantial
corporate discount. While we still have the bus duct, we have installed
cable tray over the machine lines, as we move machinery a _lot_. You don't
even have to redo the conduit riser usually, as it's just clamped to the
tray. The cables we installed from the bus duct are long enough to cover a
certian area under the tray, so you don't have to re-run wire when you move
equipment. Considerable cost savings.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

We used overhead ?Square D? 3 phase power buses - long metal enclosures
containing buss bars and 3 or more plug in spots per side. Lots of flex.

It was a matter of plugging in a switch box and from it is the drop line.
Unplug the box and move the machine and replug.

Our 50 Hz system ran in their own line. We had a propane 'generator'.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Anthony wrote:
Bruce L. Bergman wrote in
:

If you didn't have the wire, I'd say Bus Duct and plug-in disconnect
taps for the big machines. But that stuff is /really/ pricy if you
have to pay full freight - they put it on car assembly lines so they
can swap out gear overnight.

Prices have gone thru the roof on that stuff of late. Last 200A plug-in bus
box I bought in June was $1200+! and that's _with_ our substantial
corporate discount. While we still have the bus duct, we have installed
cable tray over the machine lines, as we move machinery a _lot_. You don't
even have to redo the conduit riser usually, as it's just clamped to the
tray. The cables we installed from the bus duct are long enough to cover a
certian area under the tray, so you don't have to re-run wire when you move
equipment. Considerable cost savings.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:31:22 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:03:49 -0500, Randy wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 00:58:04 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

Bruce, Im staring a new project , Monday.

I need :

(1) 400 amp 480volt 3ph sub panel with 6 + breaker positions
(2) 200 amp 480vt 3ph sub with 6-10 breakers
(1) 200 amp single phase sub, with 20-48 breaker positions

400' 6x6 raceway

Got any suggestions for surplus sources?

Gunner,
If you don't mind me snopping in on your post, try these guys. I
never dealt with them but a friend of mine did. He sold them a 600A
480V switch.

http://www.surplusrecord.com/electric.htm

You aren't snooping - we're both always open to better ideas. When
you get a bit "seasoned" the credo is "Work smarter, not harder."

-- Bruce --

Indeed!!!

Gunner