Good day

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, And it likely has

I have a Index model 45 Milling machine with a semi obsolete taper (#9
Brown and Sharpe) but it came with two collet adapters (Universal Y
and universal Z)

Am i nuts or do i only REALLY need a full set of Y or Z collets to be
able to hold almost any type of cutting tool and just get my endmills
or flycutters or boring heads or whatever other tooling with a
straight shank?

This would also possibly let me use the straight shank tooling in the
lathe if i got a collet holder for it?

I'm a hobby/home shop machinist and the LESS i spend on tooling or the
more stuff i can use the tooling i have for the more i have available
for projects. I have a preference for flexibility and quality over
lack of price. Am i nuts here or would a full set of collets allow me
to use any straight shank tooling in my mill or my lathe and focus my
spending on workholding type attachments like dividing heads and
rotary tables because i can recycle all my cutting tools across the
mill and lathe and focus on finding and buying workholding type
tooling instead of cutting type tooling

Am i nuts thinking that I should just be looking for Y and Z collets
and workholding tooling?

Thanks

Brent
Ottawa Canada

Brent wrote:
Good day

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, And it likely has

I have a Index model 45 Milling machine with a semi obsolete taper (#9
Brown and Sharpe) but it came with two collet adapters (Universal Y
and universal Z)

Am i nuts or do i only REALLY need a full set of Y or Z collets to be
able to hold almost any type of cutting tool and just get my endmills
or flycutters or boring heads or whatever other tooling with a
straight shank?

This would also possibly let me use the straight shank tooling in the
lathe if i got a collet holder for it?

I'm a hobby/home shop machinist and the LESS i spend on tooling or the
more stuff i can use the tooling i have for the more i have available
for projects. I have a preference for flexibility and quality over
lack of price. Am i nuts here or would a full set of collets allow me
to use any straight shank tooling in my mill or my lathe and focus my
spending on workholding type attachments like dividing heads and
rotary tables because i can recycle all my cutting tools across the
mill and lathe and focus on finding and buying workholding type
tooling instead of cutting type tooling

Am i nuts thinking that I should just be looking for Y and Z collets
and workholding tooling?

Thanks

Brent
Ottawa Canada


Little Machine Shop has an inexpensive set of BS taper collets
available. I have seen BS taper endmill holders out there as well.

You could also consider getting the spindles ground out to an R8 taper
and take advantage of a far wider selection of tooling. The cost benefit
of that one, will depend on who does the work, but it is one that I
would consider before I went out and bought a pile of tooling.
IIRC a price of around $250 US is banged around as a reference point.

Had to do a search for Universal Y and Z collets.
http://www.gpcollets.com/universal_d...per_collet.htm

Take a look at a tool catalog. For holding end mills, you will only
need the sizes that end mills come in. The other sizes are really only
useful if they coincide with a diameter of a workpiece or tool that you
might use or need someday.

You could get by quite well with 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4, for just
holding end mills and straight shank tooling, provided you shopped for
tools accordingly.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Jul 27, 8:59 am, Trevor Jones wrote:
Brent wrote:
Good day

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, And it likely has

I have a Index model 45 Milling machine with a semi obsolete taper (#9
Brown and Sharpe) but it came with two collet adapters (Universal Y
and universal Z)

Am i nuts or do i only REALLY need a full set of Y or Z collets to be
able to hold almost any type of cutting tool and just get my endmills
or flycutters or boring heads or whatever other tooling with a
straight shank?

This would also possibly let me use the straight shank tooling in the
lathe if i got a collet holder for it?

I'm a hobby/home shop machinist and the LESS i spend on tooling or the
more stuff i can use the tooling i have for the more i have available
for projects. I have a preference for flexibility and quality over
lack of price. Am i nuts here or would a full set of collets allow me
to use any straight shank tooling in my mill or my lathe and focus my
spending on workholding type attachments like dividing heads and
rotary tables because i can recycle all my cutting tools across the
mill and lathe and focus on finding and buying workholding type
tooling instead of cutting type tooling

Am i nuts thinking that I should just be looking for Y and Z collets
and workholding tooling?

Thanks

Brent
Ottawa Canada

Little Machine Shop has an inexpensive set of BS taper collets
available. I have seen BS taper endmill holders out there as well.

You could also consider getting the spindles ground out to an R8 taper
and take advantage of a far wider selection of tooling. The cost benefit
of that one, will depend on who does the work, but it is one that I
would consider before I went out and bought a pile of tooling.
IIRC a price of around $250 US is banged around as a reference point.

Had to do a search for Universal Y and Z collets.http://www.gpcollets.com/universal_d...per_collet.htm

Take a look at a tool catalog. For holding end mills, you will only
need the sizes that end mills come in. The other sizes are really only
useful if they coincide with a diameter of a workpiece or tool that you
might use or need someday.

You could get by quite well with 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4, for just
holding end mills and straight shank tooling, provided you shopped for
tools accordingly.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Thanks for pointing me to the BS9 Collet set (I never saw them before
in Littlemachine shop)

it does sound like i am in the right ballpark for tooling though by
the sounds and looks of things. Between straight shank and R8 tooling
seems to be abundant.

Getting my spindle recut (which the manufacturer will do) seems a
prudent investment. and form looking aound it MIGHT be possible to
recycle things like an er32 collet set between my mill and my lathe
then if i buy two collet holders (One MT3 and one R8)


My only other question is other than endmills and a flycutter drill
chuck and perhaps a boring head what other tools are needed for most
regular milling tasks?

Am i wrong in thinking that those four cutting tools plus creative
workholding (Dividing heads rotary tables a good vise and lots of
creative clamping) can essentially make almost anything a home shop
machinist would need?

Thanks in advance

Brent
Ottawa Canada

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 08:43:27 -0700, Brent
wrote:

On Jul 27, 8:59 am, Trevor Jones wrote:
Brent wrote:
Good day

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, And it likely has

I have a Index model 45 Milling machine with a semi obsolete taper (#9
Brown and Sharpe) but it came with two collet adapters (Universal Y
and universal Z)

Am i nuts or do i only REALLY need a full set of Y or Z collets to be
able to hold almost any type of cutting tool and just get my endmills
or flycutters or boring heads or whatever other tooling with a
straight shank?

This would also possibly let me use the straight shank tooling in the
lathe if i got a collet holder for it?

I'm a hobby/home shop machinist and the LESS i spend on tooling or the
more stuff i can use the tooling i have for the more i have available
for projects. I have a preference for flexibility and quality over
lack of price. Am i nuts here or would a full set of collets allow me
to use any straight shank tooling in my mill or my lathe and focus my
spending on workholding type attachments like dividing heads and
rotary tables because i can recycle all my cutting tools across the
mill and lathe and focus on finding and buying workholding type
tooling instead of cutting type tooling

Am i nuts thinking that I should just be looking for Y and Z collets
and workholding tooling?

Thanks

Brent
Ottawa Canada

Little Machine Shop has an inexpensive set of BS taper collets
available. I have seen BS taper endmill holders out there as well.

You could also consider getting the spindles ground out to an R8 taper
and take advantage of a far wider selection of tooling. The cost benefit
of that one, will depend on who does the work, but it is one that I
would consider before I went out and bought a pile of tooling.
IIRC a price of around $250 US is banged around as a reference point.

Had to do a search for Universal Y and Z collets.http://www.gpcollets.com/universal_d...per_collet.htm

Take a look at a tool catalog. For holding end mills, you will only
need the sizes that end mills come in. The other sizes are really only
useful if they coincide with a diameter of a workpiece or tool that you
might use or need someday.

You could get by quite well with 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4, for just
holding end mills and straight shank tooling, provided you shopped for
tools accordingly.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Thanks for pointing me to the BS9 Collet set (I never saw them before
in Littlemachine shop)

it does sound like i am in the right ballpark for tooling though by
the sounds and looks of things. Between straight shank and R8 tooling
seems to be abundant.

Getting my spindle recut (which the manufacturer will do) seems a
prudent investment. and form looking aound it MIGHT be possible to
recycle things like an er32 collet set between my mill and my lathe
then if i buy two collet holders (One MT3 and one R8)


My only other question is other than endmills and a flycutter drill
chuck and perhaps a boring head what other tools are needed for most
regular milling tasks?

Am i wrong in thinking that those four cutting tools plus creative
workholding (Dividing heads rotary tables a good vise and lots of
creative clamping) can essentially make almost anything a home shop
machinist would need?

Thanks in advance

Brent
Ottawa Canada
============
Two books that will be of great help to you a

Turret Mill Operation by Edwards
http://www.amazon.com/Turret-Mill-Op.../dp/1569902739

Machine Shop Trade Secrets by Harvey
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/... Go.y=6&Go=Go

You will also need a good [not expensive, good] edge finder and
wiggler. One of the best edge finders is
http://www.hermannschmidt.com/produc...&idproduct=148
however any of the good but less expensive units will serve you
well. for example see
http://www.cartertools.com/fm.html
http://hhip.com/products/product_vie...=401-0040&p=61

The less expensive wiggler sets such as will adequate.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1603&category=
or see
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...2294&category=
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...2278&category=

If you will be doing a lot of precision drilling/boring [from a
location standpoint] a coax indicator can be a good investment.
See recent thread on this. some examples are
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...od uct+Search
http://hhip.com/products/product_vie...=400-0020&p=61
http://blakemanufacturing.com/pages/aboutus.html

One "trick" I have found helpful, particularly on older machines
with lots of wear, is magnetic back dial indicators. These give
you a direct readout of how much you are moving and will also
indicate if the table shifts when you clamp it down. Not as nice
a digital readout, but not as expensive either, and you can
easily shift to other tools/jobs. See
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
I bought 2 inch travel indicators, but 1 inch travel is adequate
for 99.99% of what I do.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...MITEM=605-4080
look for a deal on a "mightymag" holder and indicator or magnetic
back and indicator.
http://hhip.com/products/product_vie...01-0005-5&p=61
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMPXNO=2671011

Much will depend on the types of projects you will be doing,
however I have found for the type of things I do a magnet sine
bar is extremely helpful. See the one I bought at
http://www.hhip.com/products/product...uctID=800-5410
also
http://www.machinetools.com/mt/machi...62847056110 6
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRIT...24296&PMT4NO=0
note: MSC and Enco are the same company and generally if you ask
Enco will sell you the MSC item. MSC is the volume/industrial
side of the business.


You will need a set of space blocks to set the sine bar, but in
turn these are very helpful with precision layout by using the
correct height and a flat scribe. Of course you can also use
gauge blocks but these are much more expensive. for some examples
see
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3
http://hhip.com/products/product_vie...uctID=101-0003

in addition to the drop indicators you will also need a test
indicator. Get a less expensive one to start, and then move up
if you feel the need. FWIW -- the rod on most of the magnetic
bases is much too long, and you will need to shorten it. The
bases are not expensive and you may want to get two, one to
shorten and one to leave stock. see
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...PARTPG=INLMK32
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=242&PMCTLG=00
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=243&PMCTLG=00
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=244&PMCTLG=00

There are many more sources for these tools, and sources are
shown for prices and pictures. only.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

Certainly go with the R8 spindle change if you can get it done. I have
an old US Machine Tool vertical mill with B&S #9 spindle and I do
exactly what you are talking about doing. A set of 1/16" to 1/2"
collets came with it and I bought a bigger collet holder and collet set
that goes up to an inch, I think. I have a separate 3/4" end mill
holder that I keep a 1 1/2" indexable face mill in and I have a B&S #9
shank boring bar. That face mill gets used a lot. So, yes, I do use
a lot of straight shank tooling. And, of course, end mills go into
those collets, too.
I do use that collet set all the time. Several years ago I
invested in a moderate priced Silver and Deming drill bit set, 33/64 to
1" by 64ths. I will never regret it. This lets me use my 1/2" collet
to dril up to an inch. If I need a better drill bit for a specific
job, I buy it.


Pete Stanaitis
---------------------------
Brent wrote:
Good day

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, And it likely has

I have a Index model 45 Milling machine with a semi obsolete taper (#9
Brown and Sharpe) but it came with two collet adapters (Universal Y
and universal Z)

Am i nuts or do i only REALLY need a full set of Y or Z collets to be
able to hold almost any type of cutting tool and just get my endmills
or flycutters or boring heads or whatever other tooling with a
straight shank?

This would also possibly let me use the straight shank tooling in the
lathe if i got a collet holder for it?

I'm a hobby/home shop machinist and the LESS i spend on tooling or the
more stuff i can use the tooling i have for the more i have available
for projects. I have a preference for flexibility and quality over
lack of price. Am i nuts here or would a full set of collets allow me
to use any straight shank tooling in my mill or my lathe and focus my
spending on workholding type attachments like dividing heads and
rotary tables because i can recycle all my cutting tools across the
mill and lathe and focus on finding and buying workholding type
tooling instead of cutting type tooling

Am i nuts thinking that I should just be looking for Y and Z collets
and workholding tooling?

Thanks

Brent
Ottawa Canada