This Saturday I will rent a large sand blast set-up and blast 500 lb. of
steel ornamental fence and gate which will be set up outside. I stopped
by a NAPA auto store and bought "Rust Treatment, Destroys Rust". The
stuff is supposed to turn the surface metal black after two coats.
Should I use this stuff or should I just paint on a primer after sand
blasting, is this rust treatment step worth the effort?

After sand blasting I suspect there will be trace amounts of oil on the
fence from the air compressor. If I spray the gate and fence with an
airless sprayer with some paint thinner will that remove most of the
surface oil, there are too many cracks and crevices to wipe it by hand?

Will Rustoleum brand paint and primer sprayed from an airless sprayer
give good results, from this newsgroups it seems that the best paint for
exterior metal is an automotive type finish, though some people have
said they got good results from Rustoleum.

Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions.

"andy everett" wrote in message
...
This Saturday I will rent a large sand blast set-up and blast 500 lb. of
steel ornamental fence and gate which will be set up outside. I stopped
by a NAPA auto store and bought "Rust Treatment, Destroys Rust". The
stuff is supposed to turn the surface metal black after two coats.
Should I use this stuff or should I just paint on a primer after sand
blasting, is this rust treatment step worth the effort?

After sand blasting I suspect there will be trace amounts of oil on the
fence from the air compressor. If I spray the gate and fence with an
airless sprayer with some paint thinner will that remove most of the
surface oil, there are too many cracks and crevices to wipe it by hand?

Will Rustoleum brand paint and primer sprayed from an airless sprayer
give good results, from this newsgroups it seems that the best paint for
exterior metal is an automotive type finish, though some people have
said they got good results from Rustoleum.

Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions.


Let me start by stating that I owned a wrought iron business for nine years.

Your answer depends on the part of the country you live in. In the dry
southwest, it is different than in Oregon. And no matter what you do, if
you live in a humid place, it will rust.

Welding can have a lot to do with it. If you weld all four sides, and make
it impervious to water, you will do better than welding only two sides.
Also what happens if it is left open is that water enters, freezes, and
bursts the tubing. All the rust preventive measures you do will not
compensate for cracks that water can penetrate into and rust from the inside
out and leak rusty water out onto the surface. You will never be able to
treat the inside, so you have to seal it up.

Cleaning is important, but not critical. Removal of the "fish oil" rust
preventative is most important, as that will keep the paint from sticking.
Surface imperfections and some surface rust can be neutralized with a good
paint such as Rustoleum. I would wire brush all the welds to clean off the
oxidation from them, as they are usually the first things to rust.

In recent years, more and more restrictions have been placed on the types of
paints that are used. You used to just apply enamel, and go with it. Now a
lot of those are not available, and you have to go get the $25 per gallon
stuff.

You might be overthinking this and doing too much work. Sandblasting is
nice, but not really necessary. A good cleaning with gasoline, done safely
outdoors, will get off what you want to get off. Now, if you have a
sandblaster available, you might use that, but then, you are blasting thin
materials, and you might take off more material than you protect. A double
coat of the same color paint with the recommended time between will do you
as good as a separate primer and topcoat.

It's only wrought iron. Unless it is for a special piece, or has to look
very good for a very long time, I wouldn't spend all the time on it you are
willing to spend. If it IS for a special place, take it and have it powder
coated.

Steve

Steve, thank you for your reply. I left out some details. This gate is
wrought iron. Two 7 foot posts at about 200 lbs and two gates, six feet
high by five feet wide at about 300 lbs. It was bought at an antique
store and when painted it will decorate a small park in south east
Pennsylvania. It is quite massively built, thick metal bars and flat
work. Because of how it is built sand blasting seems the way to go to
get off the rust. I thought at a minimum this was something that needed
to be done. The people I am doing this for are in a rush to get it in
place. What could be the life of the paint job if it was powder coated
verses going with a good oil base paint?


SteveB wrote:
"andy everett" wrote in message
...

This Saturday I will rent a large sand blast set-up and blast 500 lb. of
steel ornamental fence and gate which will be set up outside. I stopped
by a NAPA auto store and bought "Rust Treatment, Destroys Rust". The
stuff is supposed to turn the surface metal black after two coats.
Should I use this stuff or should I just paint on a primer after sand
blasting, is this rust treatment step worth the effort?

After sand blasting I suspect there will be trace amounts of oil on the
fence from the air compressor. If I spray the gate and fence with an
airless sprayer with some paint thinner will that remove most of the
surface oil, there are too many cracks and crevices to wipe it by hand?

Will Rustoleum brand paint and primer sprayed from an airless sprayer
give good results, from this newsgroups it seems that the best paint for
exterior metal is an automotive type finish, though some people have
said they got good results from Rustoleum.

Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions.



Let me start by stating that I owned a wrought iron business for nine years.

Your answer depends on the part of the country you live in. In the dry
southwest, it is different than in Oregon. And no matter what you do, if
you live in a humid place, it will rust.

Welding can have a lot to do with it. If you weld all four sides, and make
it impervious to water, you will do better than welding only two sides.
Also what happens if it is left open is that water enters, freezes, and
bursts the tubing. All the rust preventive measures you do will not
compensate for cracks that water can penetrate into and rust from the inside
out and leak rusty water out onto the surface. You will never be able to
treat the inside, so you have to seal it up.

Cleaning is important, but not critical. Removal of the "fish oil" rust
preventative is most important, as that will keep the paint from sticking.
Surface imperfections and some surface rust can be neutralized with a good
paint such as Rustoleum. I would wire brush all the welds to clean off the
oxidation from them, as they are usually the first things to rust.

In recent years, more and more restrictions have been placed on the types of
paints that are used. You used to just apply enamel, and go with it. Now a
lot of those are not available, and you have to go get the $25 per gallon
stuff.

You might be overthinking this and doing too much work. Sandblasting is
nice, but not really necessary. A good cleaning with gasoline, done safely
outdoors, will get off what you want to get off. Now, if you have a
sandblaster available, you might use that, but then, you are blasting thin
materials, and you might take off more material than you protect. A double
coat of the same color paint with the recommended time between will do you
as good as a separate primer and topcoat.

It's only wrought iron. Unless it is for a special piece, or has to look
very good for a very long time, I wouldn't spend all the time on it you are
willing to spend. If it IS for a special place, take it and have it powder
coated.

Steve

"andy everett" wrote in message
...
Steve, thank you for your reply. I left out some details. This gate is
wrought iron. Two 7 foot posts at about 200 lbs and two gates, six feet
high by five feet wide at about 300 lbs. It was bought at an antique
store and when painted it will decorate a small park in south east
Pennsylvania. It is quite massively built, thick metal bars and flat
work. Because of how it is built sand blasting seems the way to go to
get off the rust. I thought at a minimum this was something that needed
to be done. The people I am doing this for are in a rush to get it in
place. What could be the life of the paint job if it was powder coated
verses going with a good oil base paint?


It would be almost impossible to clean well enough to get the powder coat to
stick. Were it me, I would blast it, watching not to eat away too much
metal. Then prime it with a good primer. I like enamel. Then spray it
with a good enamel. Let it dry three or four days in warm weather, then
spray it again. Once you hang it, you will have to retouch all the dings
and weld marks. Use an electric wire brush to get it clean, then touch up
paint. Go back after it has rained a few times, and touch up the places
where rust is evident.

Getting it up seems to be the priority. Can you paint it once it is up?
Sandblast it, then hang it, then paint it? If not, blast it, paint it,
install it, and retouch, retouch, retouch. Put a limit on how long you are
willing to keep up with the retouching, because it will rust for decades.
Keeping it painted and looking good will be an ongoing project, particularly
if they go with a light color. Try to steer them to black or dark brown.
Let them know that it IS an iron piece, and rust is as inevitable as
Democratic presidents.

Good luck. Sounds like an interesting project. If you would like, or if
any contributor here would like, e mail me, and I will send you a pic of my
last gate.

HTH

Steve

"andy everett" wrote in message
...
Steve, thank you for your reply. I left out some details. This gate is
wrought iron. Two 7 foot posts at about 200 lbs and two gates, six feet
high by five feet wide at about 300 lbs. It was bought at an antique
store and when painted it will decorate a small park in south east
Pennsylvania. It is quite massively built, thick metal bars and flat
work. Because of how it is built sand blasting seems the way to go to
get off the rust. I thought at a minimum this was something that needed
to be done. The people I am doing this for are in a rush to get it in
place. What could be the life of the paint job if it was powder coated
verses going with a good oil base paint?


If it were me, I'd consider painting with with POR-15 paint, followed
by the UV stable black topcoat made by the POR-15 people.

In article ,
says...
Steve, thank you for your reply. I left out some details. This gate is
wrought iron. Two 7 foot posts at about 200 lbs and two gates, six feet
high by five feet wide at about 300 lbs. It was bought at an antique
store and when painted it will decorate a small park in south east
Pennsylvania. It is quite massively built, thick metal bars and flat
work. Because of how it is built sand blasting seems the way to go to
get off the rust. I thought at a minimum this was something that needed
to be done. The people I am doing this for are in a rush to get it in
place. What could be the life of the paint job if it was powder coated
verses going with a good oil base paint?


I painted the steel stringers for the outside stairway on
my shop with a water based acrylic Rustoleum primer and
topcoat about 10 years ago. These stairs are 100 feet from
salt water. They don't show *any* sign of rusting yet and
the topcoat (dark green) is still glossy. I was a diehard
oil-based enamel guy, but this stuff has convinced me that
water based paint can be as good or better than oil based.

Rustoleum's instructions say it can be applied over tight
mill scale or light rust, but it ain't so, as I found out
the first time I used it. The stringers were sand blasted
to bare metal and painted with a brush.

I'm pretty sure it was the Rustoleum 5200 system, available
from Grainger. If you're interested I'll see if I can find
the cans and make sure.

Ned Simmons

andy everett wrote:
This Saturday I will rent a large sand blast set-up and blast 500 lb.
of steel ornamental fence and gate which will be set up outside. I
stopped by a NAPA auto store and bought "Rust Treatment, Destroys
Rust". The stuff is supposed to turn the surface metal black after
two coats. Should I use this stuff or should I just paint on a primer
after sand blasting, is this rust treatment step worth the effort?

It would probably be cheaper or the same money to take the stuff to a
sandblaster and have it blasted and immediately primed. If you do sandblast
it yourself I would suggest Black Beauty (coal slag) as opposed to sand.
Coal slag is low silica but has trace amounts of nasty stuff, so use very
good protection, like a powered HEPA filter.

andy everett writes:

Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions.

Unless you have a dryer, you will be spitting water onto the sandblasted or
painted surface using compressed air.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:30:37 GMT, "Ken Finney"
wrote:

If it were me, I'd consider painting with with POR-15 paint, followed
by the UV stable black topcoat made by the POR-15 people.

I second the motion! That stuff is expensive but it works!

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 23:38:10 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote:
andy everett writes:

Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions.

Unless you have a dryer, you will be spitting water onto the sandblasted or
painted surface using compressed air.

Unless you have dry air, you'll be clogging the sandblast pickup and nozzle
before you do much blasting at all, so that's pretty much a moot point.

Gary

Gary Coffman writes:

Unless you have dry air, you'll be clogging the sandblast pickup and
nozzle before you do much blasting at all, so that's pretty much a
moot point.

Doesn't seem to be a problem for me, and I use sloppy wet air for
sandblasting.

andy everett wrote in message ...
This Saturday I will rent a large sand blast set-up and blast 500 lb. of
steel ornamental fence and gate which will be set up outside. I stopped
by a NAPA auto store and bought "Rust Treatment, Destroys Rust". The
stuff is supposed to turn the surface metal black after two coats.
Should I use this stuff or should I just paint on a primer after sand
blasting, is this rust treatment step worth the effort?

My experience with the rust converters is they only give you a black
surface where there is actual rust -- otherwise, nothing happens
except the surface gets etched slightly from the phosphoric acid.
You'd still have to prime and paint (or at least, I did, when I used
this stuff on my boat).

After sand blasting I suspect there will be trace amounts of oil on the
fence from the air compressor. If I spray the gate and fence with an
airless sprayer with some paint thinner will that remove most of the
surface oil, there are too many cracks and crevices to wipe it by hand?

If you use an oil-base primer like Rustoleum rusty metal red primer,
small amounts of oil won't bother it.

Will Rustoleum brand paint and primer sprayed from an airless sprayer
give good results, from this newsgroups it seems that the best paint for
exterior metal is an automotive type finish, though some people have
said they got good results from Rustoleum.

Yes. I did the very rusty fire escape on a building we renovated in
DC about ten years ago, first wire-brushing with a cup brush and angle
grinder, then 2 coats of Rustoleum rusty metal primer and 2 coats of
satin black. It was just starting to show traces of primer color
again when we sold the building last year. No visible rust. I
consider that to be excellent paint performance.

I just finished doing the same thing to the fences and gate around the
new (to us--circa 1885) house we bought here in San Francisco. Heavy
cup brushing, 2 coats of rusty metal primer, and 2 finish coats. A
good portion of the fence looks like it could be original, or at least
old enough to be forge-welded and riveted iron rather than
stick-welded steel. Hopefully, the paint will last as long as the
last job did, but I've been told that the CA formula for Rustoleum is
different, due to the VOC restrictions, so I guess I'll have to wait
and see.

Regards,

Bob

Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions.