Somebody (on some NG) posted that harbor freight tools was owned by the
chinese army. Anyone have a link to said statement? TIA Pat

Totally bogus.
Harbor Freight is owned by an american, who is getting filthy rich from
owning it, by the name of Eric L. Smidt.
Here is a link to his purchasing a house for 46 million dollars.
http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/04/cx_sc_0304movers.html

wrote in message
oups.com...
Totally bogus.
Harbor Freight is owned by an american, who is getting filthy rich from
owning it, by the name of Eric L. Smidt.
Here is a link to his purchasing a house for 46 million dollars.
http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/04/cx_sc_0304movers.html

Thanks for the link. I read it somewhere and had doubts . Pat

Harbor Freight is owned by an american, who is getting filthy rich from
owning it, by the name of Eric L. Smidt.

So, this American must work for the Chinese Army?

On Thu, 25 May 2006 12:13:38 -0700, the renowned "patrick mitchel"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Totally bogus.
Harbor Freight is owned by an american, who is getting filthy rich from
owning it, by the name of Eric L. Smidt.
Here is a link to his purchasing a house for 46 million dollars.
http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/04/cx_sc_0304movers.html

Thanks for the link. I read it somewhere and had doubts . Pat

He got a 35% discount on the $70m asking price. Figures.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Pat wrote:

Somebody (on some NG) posted that harbor freight tools was owned by the chinese army. Anyone have a link to said statement? TIA

Don't be rediculous. Everybody knows that Harbor Freight is owned by
the Central Intelligence Agency.

They have about the same level of quality control.

On 25 May 2006 15:25:24 -0700, "MikeMandaville"
wrote:

Pat wrote:

Somebody (on some NG) posted that harbor freight tools was owned by the chinese army. Anyone have a link to said statement? TIA

Don't be rediculous. Everybody knows that Harbor Freight is owned by
the Central Intelligence Agency.

On Thu, 25 May 2006 17:40:41 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Thu, 25 May 2006 12:13:38 -0700, the renowned "patrick mitchel"
wrote:


wrote in message
groups.com...
Totally bogus.
Harbor Freight is owned by an american, who is getting filthy rich from
owning it, by the name of Eric L. Smidt.
Here is a link to his purchasing a house for 46 million dollars.
http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/04/cx_sc_0304movers.html

Thanks for the link. I read it somewhere and had doubts . Pat

He got a 35% discount on the $70m asking price. Figures.

I wonder where he got the coupon?

Gunner



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

Of course that's a silly concept, but if true, all the paranoids could relax
knowing that the HF tools are the same quality as the Chinese weapons.


"patrick mitchel" wrote in message
...
Somebody (on some NG) posted that harbor freight tools was owned by the
chinese army. Anyone have a link to said statement? TIA Pat

Harbor maybe American owned , but the products they sell may indeed be
owned by the ChiComs.
And this use of the word "military"...what difference is there between
the military and the ChiCom
government as a whole ?

We hear some reports of increased "privatization" in China. Oh BS.
If a business man over in China isn't kissing ChiCom ass, they can't
get anywhere.

So essentially, yes Harbor Tools sells Chinese Military products.
Oh but I know that many people don't give a crap.
Just to save a few pennies they basically are saying America can go to
hell.

FED UP wrote:

babble snipped

Oh but I know that many people don't give a crap.
Just to save a few pennies they basically are saying America can go to
hell.

America already went to hell, I'm just keeping myself happy while we all
swirl around and down the toilet bowl.
Additionally, there are *zero* American companies that produce products
for the market. Yes, there are still a few American companies that
produce machine tools and metrology items, but they all produce only
product lines for large scale / precision commercial markets, not mid
level lower cost lines for the HSM market.

Pete C.

"JimInsolo" wrote...
Of course that's a silly concept, but if true, all the paranoids could
relax
knowing that the HF tools are the same quality as the Chinese weapons.

I have both. No complaints with either.

-jc-

"John Chase" wrote in message
. com...
"JimInsolo" wrote...
Of course that's a silly concept, but if true, all the paranoids could
relax
knowing that the HF tools are the same quality as the Chinese weapons.

I have both. No complaints with either.

-jc-


Chinese do copy fine weapons..I love my chicom ak47

On Fri, 26 May 2006 12:44:21 GMT, "JimInsolo"
wrote:

Of course that's a silly concept, but if true, all the paranoids could relax
knowing that the HF tools are the same quality as the Chinese weapons.


The Chinese make very good weapons......

"patrick mitchel" wrote in message
...
Somebody (on some NG) posted that harbor freight tools was owned by the
chinese army. Anyone have a link to said statement? TIA Pat



Gunner


"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:05:17 -0400, "digitalmaster"
wrote:


"John Chase" wrote in message
.com...
"JimInsolo" wrote...
Of course that's a silly concept, but if true, all the paranoids could
relax
knowing that the HF tools are the same quality as the Chinese weapons.

I have both. No complaints with either.

-jc-


Chinese do copy fine weapons..I love my chicom ak47

And SKS's. Though the Norinco copy of the M1-A has been noted for very
spotty heat treatment of the bolt and receiver.

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:05:17 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"digitalmaster" quickly quoth:


"John Chase" wrote in message
.com...
"JimInsolo" wrote...
Of course that's a silly concept, but if true, all the paranoids could
relax
knowing that the HF tools are the same quality as the Chinese weapons.

I have both. No complaints with either.

Chinese do copy fine weapons..I love my chicom ak47

I've had the pleasure of running 90 rounds through one at a Machine
Gun Shootout here in So. OR. They're damned nice machines.


---
The time is now, the place is here. Stay in the present.
You can do nothing to change the past, and the future
will never come exactly as you plan or hope for.
-- Dan Millman
----------
www.diversify.com - Websites for Here and Now!

Oh heck anyone can make an AK-47 !

Though the Norinco copy of the M1-A has been noted for very
spotty heat treatment of the bolt and receiver.

Yeah. What happens is that after about 500 rounds you've found that
the
hot gases had almost completely blasted out the chamber. The round now
rattles around
after the bolt has closed.
Of course you take your life into your hands shooting it like that.

But quite frankly those people that bought that gun...deserve what
they got.

On 28 May 2006 07:52:49 -0700, "FED UP" wrote:

Oh heck anyone can make an AK-47 !

Though the Norinco copy of the M1-A has been noted for very
spotty heat treatment of the bolt and receiver.

Yeah. What happens is that after about 500 rounds you've found that
the
hot gases had almost completely blasted out the chamber. The round now
rattles around
after the bolt has closed.

Blink blink...huh???? Hot gases are contained by the cartridge case
in the chamber. Unless you have a case failure..Not a Good Thing ©

Read about guns in some Mickey Spillane book or something?

The issue is locking lug setback and dimensonal issues with some of
the bolts. Norinco and Poly Technics had some problems..very spotty
record.


Of course you take your life into your hands shooting it like that.

But quite frankly those people that bought that gun...deserve what
they got.

Why? Because they bought a firearm that was in their price range?

Lets look at what the experts have to say on the subject..shall we?

Heres what Fultons has to say on them.

"Clint, tell us about the Chinese M14S

I'd be happy to go through this. Here's the scoop:

1. The locking lug helix (surface contour) of the Chinese bolt does
not agree/match the locking lug helix of the receiver. Thus, the bolt
locking lug surfaces only partially contact the receiver locking lug
surfaces. As you fire the rifle, the bolt will "collapse" back onto
the locking lugs of the receiver until "enough" surface contact is
engaged to stop the rearward force caused by the 50,000 PSI or so that
is produced on each firing. As the bolt moves rearward, headspace is
lost. Often/mostly/always massive headspace loss occurs. I have seen
Chinese bolts that close & move back & forth with a field gauge. I
have witnessed headspace readings estimated (no gauge long enough to
be certain) at greater than 20 thous. beyond Go. G.I. bolt's will also
"collapse" when receiver locking lugs are not correct (commercial
receivers sometimes have poor locking lug surfaces which is why we at
Fulton Armory always hand lap every bolt to every commercial receiver
to ensure excellent engagement before we install/set headspace),
though they move rearward more slowly due to better heat treat &
steel. The fact that the Chinese bolts are very soft, amplifies the
problem. BTW, the locking lug helix of the Chinese receiver does
agree/match the helix of the G.I. M14 bolts quite nicely. I have never
had to hand lap a G.I. bolt for more than say, 15-20 minutes to get a
beautiful engagement. It's quite odd. It's as though someone ground on
the Chinese bolt lugs with a handtool.

2. The Chinese bolt is "too long" as it relates to the firing pin
bridge of the receiver, which retracts the firing pin on loading. As
the Chinese bolt moves reward, the firing pin tail also moves reward.
So much so that the firing pin bridge does not effectively/at all
retract the firing pin! I have seen Chinese rifles where the firing
pin did not retract at all. This is quite dangerous. Add to this bolt
"geometry" problem the fact that the trigger & sears, & hammers are
also way too soft (hammer fall will occur) one can see the train wreck
ahead.


A. One thousand rounds through an M14 is nothing. I have customers who
do this in a month. The whole point of possessing fine military rifles
is that their design, properly executed, provides for a durability &
reliability virtually unknown in commercial products.

B. That a rifle has not failed catastrophically, nor a wing fallen
off, is hardly a measure of acceptability, safety or serviceability.

C. The vast majority of Chinese M14's that come into our shop have
excessive headspace, among other maladies. A very few have had too
tight a headspace, which is quite odd.

Fulton Armory builds Service and Competition Grade rifles on Polytech
and Norinco receivers from customer-supplied rifles. The result is a
superlative M14-type rifle with a forged receiver, as close to GI as
you can get.

Note to Walt: The barrel must be replaced to allow for a G.I. bolt to
fit, and even then, the receiver needs relieving to safely accept the
bolt! THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT! Also, the Hammer, Trigger & Sear
need to be replaced.

Our package should be done all at once, or not at all. You would not
believe the horrendous examples that come into the shop that were
"worked on" by the local "Gunsmith," trying to fit the G.I. bolt. One
needs to know what to grind, and even more importantly, what not to
grind. You really would not believe it. You're too trusting to believe
what I've seen, Walt

--Clint McKee

A postscript from Kirk Hays:
Having owned several of the Chinese M14S rifles, and having a set of
M14 receiver gauges available to me, I have independently confirmed
what Clint says about the receiver geometries. The Chinese receivers
are dimensionally as good as TRW rifles in the collection of a friend.
Period.

The finish on the Norinco receivers is rough on non-functional
surfaces - they are ugly, and Polytech receivers are only slightly
better.

John Kepler has inside information that the DCM was actually looking
at using Chinese receivers for providing M14 rifles to Service Rifle
competitors, and access to a steel analysis done on the recievers,
showing it to be 5100 steel, which is a very good alloy for receivers,
but a bit difficult to work.

--Kirk Hays

More on the Chinese bolts from Clint:

The Chinese bolts have a great deal more problems than just the heat
treating. Incidentally, whether a part is cast or forged has nothing
to do with whether they need to be heat treated. These bolts could be
transmutated into Kryptonite, but they will still be dangerously
substandard.

The problems include:

The bolt's locking lugs are cut wrong !The helixial angles are dead
wrong, and thusly, they do NOT properly contact the opposing
receiver's locking lugs. A very bad condition, as headspace will be
lost over time. Sometimes, in only a few hundred rounds! The bolt sits
very far back and away from the barrel mouth, and thus, provides very
poor support to the cartridge case at its base. Bear in mind, this has
nothing to do with headspace (this condition can exist even with
proper headspace). The "closer" a bolt fits to the barrel mouth, the
better the support of the case. Over the years, improperly
manufactured barrels have shown us what can happen, even with proper
headspace, when the cartridge's base is not properly supported: total
case failure with catastrophic results. In the Chinese rifle example,
it's the bolt sitting too far back on a proper barrel!

Next, because the bolt sits so far back in the receiver, the firing
pin tail (which exits at the rear of the bolt body) is also too far
rearward and thusly, the firing pin is not properly retracted by the
receiver's firing pin bridge.

If you ever have an opportunity to examine a Chinese rifle, remove the
op rod, and take notice of how far the bolt can move back & fro, while
in battery. In many of these rifles, it's scary. Naturally, how far it
will move will depend on how many rounds have been fired and just how
bad the bolt was originally.

So, IMHO, forget spending a bunch, or a little, money on "heat
treating" the Chinese bolts.

--Clint McKee



"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

"Hot gases are contained by the cartridge case in the chamber.

Gunner....at first the gases blow out that area directly at the top of
the brass.
Then the gases will tend to work backwards along the outside of the
casing.
Eventually there's the brass case, sticking out into a little cavern,
that used to be the chamber.

On 28 May 2006 12:10:04 -0700, "FED UP" wrote:

"Hot gases are contained by the cartridge case in the chamber.

Gunner....at first the gases blow out that area directly at the top of
the brass.

Blink blink...are you refering to the throat? Any round that makes
12,000 psi or more is going to give you good case obituration (case
expands to fill the chamber).

Given that the 7.62x51 Nato runs in the 50,000 psi range...I suspect
that its gonna seal the chamber really well. In fact..I dont think
Ive even seen a crewserved full auto weapon with that kind of throat
errosion after a gazillion rounds down range.


Then the gases will tend to work backwards along the outside of the
casing.

Only if you are using ultra low pressure loads..and they will be low
temperature, so there will be no chamber erosion.

Eventually there's the brass case, sticking out into a little cavern,
that used to be the chamber.

Mickey Spillane?

Or Mickey Mouse.

You really dont have a clue about ballistics, do you ?

Thats ok..most folks dont, its a rather esoteric subject. But dont try
blowing smoke up our collective asses.

Ya hung your ass out, and got caught. Take your licks..and stop
digging yourself into a deeper hole.
"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33

Gunner wrote:

On 28 May 2006 12:10:04 -0700, "FED UP" wrote:

"Hot gases are contained by the cartridge case in the chamber.

Gunner....at first the gases blow out that area directly at the top of
the brass.

Blink blink...are you refering to the throat? Any round that makes
12,000 psi or more is going to give you good case obituration (case
expands to fill the chamber).
....

That obituration should instead be obturation.
-jiw