Hi,

I'm going ahead with building a rose engine. I won't be the last,
and I think I'm prepared now. I'll be working full time for the next
week or two, and pay a visit to someone who built one himself, to
develop my own plans.

A friend recommended a rather large local supplier,
centralsteelsupply.com. I'm interested in buying 1/2 to 1 ton of
steel, mostly plate steel of varying thickness from 1/2" to small
amounts of 2" thick. I'm going to work full time over the next couple
weeks to get specifics. I haven't yet gone to them for a quote.

I was just wondering before I do so, what should I expect,
price-wise? Another classmate told me that in a mechE class they
predicted $.30/lb in various scenario problems. Granted, I'm buying
less than a ton and I'll need steel plate of greater dimensional
accuracy than I-beams, which is going to be more expensive. $.60/lb?
$1.00/ lb? It makes a difference to me; I'm rebuilding a machine
typically built to weigh 1000+ lbs. The stand should merely be stiff
and heavy and can be of innaccurate, rusted stuff welded up, but from
the base up things will need to be smooth, flat, and of reliable
dimensions to get the tolerances I want. If cold-rolled plate steel
can be had for under $.60/lb in quantities of half a ton or more from a
bulk supplier like that, I'll go wild and overbuild it with 1" plate
everywhere :-) If more like $1.00 a pound, as I design it next week,
I'll need to exercise more discretion and ask myself "do I really need
3/4" plate there, or will 1/2" be stiff enough for the final precision
I want?"

Secondly, they offer cutting service, both by bandsaw and by flame
cutter. It took me 30 minutes to cut through 2' of 1" thick plate. I
value my time at $9/hr, and as a student, equipment maintenance is not
a factor. What might I expect for both bandsaw and flame cutting
service? Would a cut like that cost me over $4.50, or maybe I could
get it done for $1?
And, with flame-cutting, is it easy to grind enough of the scale off
the surface to then machine with a mill? Whether flame cut or
bandsawn, I will almost always need to mill to more precise specs. I'm
guessing a flame cutter is much, much faster, and thus cheaper, than a
bandsaw to operate? Should I assume that I'll get everything flame
cut, and then grind off the scale and mill from there; and factor in
appropriate tolerances when I design how to cut things out? Or,
because a bandsaw has an autofeed but is not CNC, will that cost as
little or less than flame cutting services?
Will flame cutting warp the plate at all, causing it to no longer be
flat and no longer slide properly as a part of a slide rest, toolchuck,
or workpiece vise, etc.?


thanks for the advice!
-Bernard Arnest

"Bernard Arnest" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm going ahead with building a rose engine. I won't be the last,
and I think I'm prepared now. I'll be working full time for the next
week or two, and pay a visit to someone who built one himself, to
develop my own plans.

A friend recommended a rather large local supplier,
centralsteelsupply.com. I'm interested in buying 1/2 to 1 ton of
steel, mostly plate steel of varying thickness from 1/2" to small
amounts of 2" thick. I'm going to work full time over the next couple
weeks to get specifics. I haven't yet gone to them for a quote.

I was just wondering before I do so, what should I expect,
price-wise? Another classmate told me that in a mechE class they
predicted $.30/lb in various scenario problems. Granted, I'm buying
less than a ton and I'll need steel plate of greater dimensional
accuracy than I-beams, which is going to be more expensive. $.60/lb?
$1.00/ lb? It makes a difference to me; I'm rebuilding a machine
typically built to weigh 1000+ lbs. The stand should merely be stiff
and heavy and can be of innaccurate, rusted stuff welded up, but from
the base up things will need to be smooth, flat, and of reliable
dimensions to get the tolerances I want. If cold-rolled plate steel
can be had for under $.60/lb in quantities of half a ton or more from a
bulk supplier like that, I'll go wild and overbuild it with 1" plate
everywhere :-) If more like $1.00 a pound, as I design it next week,
I'll need to exercise more discretion and ask myself "do I really need
3/4" plate there, or will 1/2" be stiff enough for the final precision
I want?"

Secondly, they offer cutting service, both by bandsaw and by flame
cutter. It took me 30 minutes to cut through 2' of 1" thick plate. I
value my time at $9/hr, and as a student, equipment maintenance is not
a factor. What might I expect for both bandsaw and flame cutting
service? Would a cut like that cost me over $4.50, or maybe I could
get it done for $1?
And, with flame-cutting, is it easy to grind enough of the scale off
the surface to then machine with a mill? Whether flame cut or
bandsawn, I will almost always need to mill to more precise specs. I'm
guessing a flame cutter is much, much faster, and thus cheaper, than a
bandsaw to operate? Should I assume that I'll get everything flame
cut, and then grind off the scale and mill from there; and factor in
appropriate tolerances when I design how to cut things out? Or,
because a bandsaw has an autofeed but is not CNC, will that cost as
little or less than flame cutting services?
Will flame cutting warp the plate at all, causing it to no longer be
flat and no longer slide properly as a part of a slide rest, toolchuck,
or workpiece vise, etc.?

Bernard, I read through your project with interest, but I saw no mention of
a Plasma Cutter. Have you considered using one for your cutting
requirements?

Hi,

I just looked it up; would plasma cutting leave an annoying
oxide layer like flame cutting, or no? I've emailed a couple people
who would know, if one exists on campus.

Btw, is $.61/lb for hot rolled steel plate fair? It's the very
best I can find; most want closer to $.80 :-( I don't know if I should
keep looking.


thanks!
-Bernard Arnest

Haven't bought heavy steel lately, can't help you on prices. But you may
need to rethink what you plan to buy:

When you weld, you warp. You can mitigate that in various ways but not
stop it. So any cold rolled plate would have to be bolted on to your
base frame. A good way to do get accuracy on a one off machine is to
build your frame, weld on 2" square blocks with the mounting holes
drilled in the center. You can use a hand grinder to get all these pads
EXACTLY the same height, then bolt the top plate on.

Beware that cold rolled has a hardened and stressed skin. If you machine
that surface off the opposite side will pull and put a nice bow in the
plate. For dimensional stability, you want hot rolled.

Bernard Arnest wrote:
Hi,

I'm going ahead with building a rose engine. I won't be the last,
and I think I'm prepared now. I'll be working full time for the next
week or two, and pay a visit to someone who built one himself, to
develop my own plans.

A friend recommended a rather large local supplier,
centralsteelsupply.com. I'm interested in buying 1/2 to 1 ton of
steel, mostly plate steel of varying thickness from 1/2" to small
amounts of 2" thick. I'm going to work full time over the next couple
weeks to get specifics. I haven't yet gone to them for a quote.

I was just wondering before I do so, what should I expect,
price-wise? Another classmate told me that in a mechE class they
predicted $.30/lb in various scenario problems. Granted, I'm buying
less than a ton and I'll need steel plate of greater dimensional
accuracy than I-beams, which is going to be more expensive. $.60/lb?
$1.00/ lb? It makes a difference to me; I'm rebuilding a machine
typically built to weigh 1000+ lbs. The stand should merely be stiff
and heavy and can be of innaccurate, rusted stuff welded up, but from
the base up things will need to be smooth, flat, and of reliable
dimensions to get the tolerances I want. If cold-rolled plate steel
can be had for under $.60/lb in quantities of half a ton or more from a
bulk supplier like that, I'll go wild and overbuild it with 1" plate
everywhere :-) If more like $1.00 a pound, as I design it next week,
I'll need to exercise more discretion and ask myself "do I really need
3/4" plate there, or will 1/2" be stiff enough for the final precision
I want?"

Secondly, they offer cutting service, both by bandsaw and by flame
cutter. It took me 30 minutes to cut through 2' of 1" thick plate. I
value my time at $9/hr, and as a student, equipment maintenance is not
a factor. What might I expect for both bandsaw and flame cutting
service? Would a cut like that cost me over $4.50, or maybe I could
get it done for $1?
And, with flame-cutting, is it easy to grind enough of the scale off
the surface to then machine with a mill? Whether flame cut or
bandsawn, I will almost always need to mill to more precise specs. I'm
guessing a flame cutter is much, much faster, and thus cheaper, than a
bandsaw to operate? Should I assume that I'll get everything flame
cut, and then grind off the scale and mill from there; and factor in
appropriate tolerances when I design how to cut things out? Or,
because a bandsaw has an autofeed but is not CNC, will that cost as
little or less than flame cutting services?
Will flame cutting warp the plate at all, causing it to no longer be
flat and no longer slide properly as a part of a slide rest, toolchuck,
or workpiece vise, etc.?


thanks for the advice!
-Bernard Arnest

In article .com,
says...
Hi,

I'm going ahead with building a rose engine. I won't be the last,
and I think I'm prepared now. I'll be working full time for the next
week or two, and pay a visit to someone who built one himself, to
develop my own plans.

A friend recommended a rather large local supplier,
centralsteelsupply.com. I'm interested in buying 1/2 to 1 ton of
steel, mostly plate steel of varying thickness from 1/2" to small
amounts of 2" thick. I'm going to work full time over the next couple
weeks to get specifics. I haven't yet gone to them for a quote.

I was just wondering before I do so, what should I expect,
price-wise? Another classmate told me that in a mechE class they
predicted $.30/lb in various scenario problems. Granted, I'm buying
less than a ton and I'll need steel plate of greater dimensional
accuracy than I-beams, which is going to be more expensive. $.60/lb?
$1.00/ lb? It makes a difference to me; I'm rebuilding a machine
typically built to weigh 1000+ lbs. The stand should merely be stiff
and heavy and can be of innaccurate, rusted stuff welded up, but from
the base up things will need to be smooth, flat, and of reliable
dimensions to get the tolerances I want. If cold-rolled plate steel
can be had for under $.60/lb in quantities of half a ton or more from a
bulk supplier like that, I'll go wild and overbuild it with 1" plate
everywhere :-) If more like $1.00 a pound, as I design it next week,
I'll need to exercise more discretion and ask myself "do I really need
3/4" plate there, or will 1/2" be stiff enough for the final precision
I want?"

What you want for the plates where flatness is important is Blanchard-
ground hot rolled plate. I buy it from these folks:

http://www.americangrinding.com/divisions/steel/

Even accounting for the freight from Chicago to Maine, the price is
cheaper than anything I've found locally, except for very small orders.
Delivery is remarkably quick, 1 to 2 weeks. I don't have a recent
invoice handy, so can't give you an exact price, but somewhere between
$.50 to $1/lb is in the ballpark. The actual price/lb will vary widely
depending on the size of the piece since there's presumably a price/lb
for the steel, plus cutting, plus grinding which is more likely a
function of area, and perhaps a per piece handling charge. If you call
and ask I'm sure they'd give you enough info to estimate prices
yourself.

If you need better flatness than Blanchard ground, the next step up is
Mattison (monster reciprocating grinder) ground.


Secondly, they offer cutting service, both by bandsaw and by flame
cutter. It took me 30 minutes to cut through 2' of 1" thick plate. I
value my time at $9/hr, and as a student, equipment maintenance is not
a factor. What might I expect for both bandsaw and flame cutting
service? Would a cut like that cost me over $4.50, or maybe I could
get it done for $1?

Every supplier seems to figure cutting charges differently. Ask.

And, with flame-cutting, is it easy to grind enough of the scale off
the surface to then machine with a mill? Whether flame cut or
bandsawn, I will almost always need to mill to more precise specs.

Some suppliers offer precision sawing, with capability close to milling
specs.

Will flame cutting warp the plate at all, causing it to no longer be
flat and no longer slide properly as a part of a slide rest, toolchuck,
or workpiece vise, etc.?

Blanchard grinding will take care of this, within reason. Keep in mind
that cold rolled steel will have more residual internal stress than hot
rolled, so will generally not be as stable in machining. Cold roll is a
more consistent product, so more predictable in how it machines. Hot
roll is available in a much wider range of sizes, primarily in large
cross sections. Hot roll is considerably less expensive.

Ned Simmons

Definitely shop around for price.
Nowadays plate is more often custom cut before it is delivered. For
anything half inch and over flame cutting on a NC table will do you very
well. After being cut you will be able to stand the half inch pieces up on
edge. It is not unusual to have your pieces on size plus or minus 1/64th.
Query the supplier before purchasing. They will custom cut and charge you a
flat rate. They make it profitable for them because they integrate your
order with everyone else's and they are nested onto the plate with little
waste.
Enquire about piercing. Often it is just not worth drilling bolt holes.
Make absolutely sure of your dimensions. Some services will take your
CAD files directly and cut as specified.
Many commercial shops don't argue over the extra cost since they receive
a finished product.
Randy


"Bernard Arnest" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

I'm going ahead with building a rose engine. I won't be the last,
and I think I'm prepared now. I'll be working full time for the next
week or two, and pay a visit to someone who built one himself, to
develop my own plans.

A friend recommended a rather large local supplier,
centralsteelsupply.com. I'm interested in buying 1/2 to 1 ton of
steel, mostly plate steel of varying thickness from 1/2" to small
amounts of 2" thick. I'm going to work full time over the next couple
weeks to get specifics. I haven't yet gone to them for a quote.

I was just wondering before I do so, what should I expect,
price-wise? Another classmate told me that in a mechE class they
predicted $.30/lb in various scenario problems. Granted, I'm buying
less than a ton and I'll need steel plate of greater dimensional
accuracy than I-beams, which is going to be more expensive. $.60/lb?
$1.00/ lb? It makes a difference to me; I'm rebuilding a machine
typically built to weigh 1000+ lbs. The stand should merely be stiff
and heavy and can be of innaccurate, rusted stuff welded up, but from
the base up things will need to be smooth, flat, and of reliable
dimensions to get the tolerances I want. If cold-rolled plate steel
can be had for under $.60/lb in quantities of half a ton or more from a
bulk supplier like that, I'll go wild and overbuild it with 1" plate
everywhere :-) If more like $1.00 a pound, as I design it next week,
I'll need to exercise more discretion and ask myself "do I really need
3/4" plate there, or will 1/2" be stiff enough for the final precision
I want?"

Secondly, they offer cutting service, both by bandsaw and by flame
cutter. It took me 30 minutes to cut through 2' of 1" thick plate. I
value my time at $9/hr, and as a student, equipment maintenance is not
a factor. What might I expect for both bandsaw and flame cutting
service? Would a cut like that cost me over $4.50, or maybe I could
get it done for $1?
And, with flame-cutting, is it easy to grind enough of the scale off
the surface to then machine with a mill? Whether flame cut or
bandsawn, I will almost always need to mill to more precise specs. I'm
guessing a flame cutter is much, much faster, and thus cheaper, than a
bandsaw to operate? Should I assume that I'll get everything flame
cut, and then grind off the scale and mill from there; and factor in
appropriate tolerances when I design how to cut things out? Or,
because a bandsaw has an autofeed but is not CNC, will that cost as
little or less than flame cutting services?
Will flame cutting warp the plate at all, causing it to no longer be
flat and no longer slide properly as a part of a slide rest, toolchuck,
or workpiece vise, etc.?


thanks for the advice!
-Bernard Arnest