Good Day Everyone

I am one of the silent ones that read the postings in this newsgroup.....I
am building my garage/shop as soon as the snow disappears.Many of you have
gone thru this..I am trying to think of what I should plan into this garage
before I build it...I am a Machinist and Millwright by trade and I also
enjoy woodworking and welding. I am open to all suggestions ....here are a
few ...but please feel free to add more..

-what to paint the concrete with?
-what type of exhaust system?
-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?
-different hoist systems?
-what seems to be the common electrical requirements?

Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete

Peter Corbett wrote:
Good Day Everyone

I am one of the silent ones that read the postings in this newsgroup.....I
am building my garage/shop as soon as the snow disappears.Many of you have
gone thru this..I am trying to think of what I should plan into this garage
before I build it...I am a Machinist and Millwright by trade and I also
enjoy woodworking and welding. I am open to all suggestions ....here are a
few ...but please feel free to add more..

-what to paint the concrete with?
-what type of exhaust system?
-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?

Have you priced plywood? I can't seem to find
a decent sheet of plywood for less than $20. It
will be 1/2" drywall for me.

-different hoist systems?
-what seems to be the common electrical requirements?

240/20amp x 2 for the lathe and mill 240/40amp for
the future TIG welder, a bunch of 120/20amp outlets
on a GFI, and CAT5 for phone and internet.

Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

28 x 32, you did well.

Thank You in advance

Pete

Peter Corbett wrote:

Good Day Everyone

I am one of the silent ones that read the postings in this newsgroup.....I
am building my garage/shop as soon as the snow disappears.Many of you have
gone thru this..I am trying to think of what I should plan into this garage
before I build it...I am a Machinist and Millwright by trade and I also
enjoy woodworking and welding. I am open to all suggestions ....here are a
few ...but please feel free to add more..

-what to paint the concrete with?
-what type of exhaust system?
-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?
-different hoist systems?
-what seems to be the common electrical requirements?

Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete
i built one about 15 yrs. ago.. when finished i then had a place to put
my lathe, the air compressor, the roll around tool chest and cabinet...
and alot of other stuff like the lawnmower and wheel barrow... i make
some wooden shelves on both walls and a desk/bench by the side window
for light... well now after being in this house for 30 yrs and raising
three kids and looking at my WORKSHOP?? i cant figure out how i am
gonna get in there to do anything.. we have christmas decorations,
easter, mardi gras, just about every holiday you can think of... and
just about every toy that was made for kids over the past 25 yrs...
everytime i look at that go cart that i paid $500 for about 22 yrs ago i
want to cry as i had one ride on it... daughter cried everytime she sat
on it as a kid and then later never had any interest in driving until we
bought her a car some 15 yrs. later.... i have old furniture in there,
some light fixtures that were replaced in the house over the years,never
know when you gonna need the old ones.... i need to get some metal
sheeting that i bought about 15 yrs. ago(the kind that they warehouses
out of) i had it cut to 6 ft. lengths-the stuff does not rust.. i only
did one side of the property with it when we first got it and figured
that i would do the other side when the cedar fence would rot.. well not
the fence rotted and i have to empty this workshop out just to get to
the metal sheeting as its behind all the other junk in there.... i
remember that when the building inspector for the local govt. came out
to do a final inspection on the building that i did.. he was talking to
a guy who was with him: it went like this, my brother-in-law built a
shed and never had anything to put in it..... well not its packed with
all the junk from the kids and wife... well now i know the feeling..
hope you dont have the same problem... remember once they get their foot
in the door with just one car to park in the winter they will inch their
way in and push you out.....

Put in a 100 Amp 220VAC electrical service just for the garage. Get a
breaker box with room for lots of breakers, I suggest at least room for
20 breakers, as 220 breakers use two spaces. You should figure on a 50
amp 220 circuit for the welder, but you could plug other things on that
circuit if you will not run them as the same time as the welder. You
could run a conduit with boxes around the wall of the shop, which would
allow you to make changes later, as you get new machines. I would put a
110 VAC GFI 20 amp outlet every few feet, maybe a quad outlet instead of
the usual dual outlet, but probably only put 220 where it was needed.
Will you want three phase power? If so, size the conduit and boxes
accordingly, and plan where you will put the converter. The 100 Amp
service will be more than adequate, since you will not be running more
than one (or at most two) machines at one time.

I would go for a higher roof to allow room for an A-frame hoist on
wheels, but many people use an engine lift. I know one guy with a
bridge crane in his shop! My dream shop would have at least one door 12
foot high by 10 foot wide, so I can roll in my dual rear wheel truck
with a load in it, or a camper on the back.

You should consider a shop layout with fixed or semi-fixed equipment
around the perimeter, with a workspace in the center using benches on
wheels, so you can move them to park a car.

If you are going to weld inside, use fire rated drywall rather than
plywood, at least in that area. Many garages are bare studs on the
inside, and that is probably OK also, except for a paint booth or a
welding area.

I would plan on a paint booth in one corner, a kind of clean room, with
an explosion-proof exhaust fan. I would want a dirty corner of the shop
or a booth for welding and grinding and sanding. I have also considered
a kind of carport area, covered but open on the sides, for welding,
grinding, and blacksmithing, to keep the mess away from the rest of the
shop. Now I have my welder next to the door, so I can weld inside or
outside. Outside is safer due to the other things in the garage.

Woodworking, which generates flammable and potentially explosive dust,
is kind of incompatible with welding and grinding, I think, so that is a
layout challenge.

Do you need heat? Will you pipe propane or natural gas to your shop?
You might even want it for an oven or forge.

In some climates, you might want a swamp cooler for the shop, although
it would increase the humidity and possibly cause more rusting.

I don't know that painting the concrete is necessary, though it might be
nice if you had a paint booth. I would not want a painted floor where I
planned to weld.

I would plan to extend a phone line to the shop, although you could
probably just use a cordless in the shop.

A few thoughts from someone who wishes they had your opportunity. Good
luck and have fun.

Richard




Peter Corbett wrote:

Good Day Everyone

I am one of the silent ones that read the postings in this newsgroup.....I
am building my garage/shop as soon as the snow disappears.Many of you have
gone thru this..I am trying to think of what I should plan into this garage
before I build it...I am a Machinist and Millwright by trade and I also
enjoy woodworking and welding. I am open to all suggestions ....here are a
few ...but please feel free to add more..

-what to paint the concrete with?
-what type of exhaust system?
-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?
-different hoist systems?
-what seems to be the common electrical requirements?

Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete

"Peter Corbett" wrote in message
news:0jx1c.659214$JQ1.469994@pd7tw1no...
Good Day Everyone

I am one of the silent ones that read the postings in this newsgroup.....I
am building my garage/shop as soon as the snow disappears.Many of you
have
gone thru this..I am trying to think of what I should plan into this
garage
before I build it...I am a Machinist and Millwright by trade and I also
enjoy woodworking and welding. I am open to all suggestions ....here are a
few ...but please feel free to add more..

-what to paint the concrete with?
-what type of exhaust system?
-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?
-different hoist systems?
-what seems to be the common electrical requirements?

Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things
to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete



I would go for 2 X 6 walls and insulate and sheetrock. You will want to
heat the shop in the winter. Also extra high ceilings are nice if you want
to put in an overhead crane some day. An extra thick floor is nice to. It
only took 3 years to crack the floor all over in my old garage.

Richard W.

"Peter Corbett" wrote in message
news:0jx1c.659214$JQ1.469994@pd7tw1no...
....
Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things
to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Congradulation...

If this is to be a heated shop for fine machine tools, in a cold climate
with road salt, the van in winter is a bad combination - for both the tools
and the van. If you have to do it that way, think about dividing it in
two, e.g. a clean heated shop for the fine tools, and a separate air space
for the van and your welding, grinding, maybe woodworking, sandblasting.

Peter Corbett writes:

-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?

I like the idea of corrugated galvanized steel. They used that on the
interior walls of the skating rink here, and it looks and performs great.

"Peter Corbett" wrote in message
news:0jx1c.659214$JQ1.469994@pd7tw1no...
Good Day Everyone

I am one of the silent ones that read the postings in this newsgroup.....I
am building my garage/shop as soon as the snow disappears.Many of you
have
gone thru this..I am trying to think of what I should plan into this
garage
before I build it...I am a Machinist and Millwright by trade and I also
enjoy woodworking and welding. I am open to all suggestions ....here are a
few ...but please feel free to add more..

-what to paint the concrete with?
-what type of exhaust system?
-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?
-different hoist systems?
-what seems to be the common electrical requirements?

Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things
to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete

Hi Pete,

I've had two *very* nice home shops in my days. The one thing I'd suggest
to you is to NOT paint the floor where you intend to do your welding. I
had an epoxy painted concrete floor in the first shop and loved it, but
anywhere you drop slag or spatter it burns it brown, making it look terrible
in short order. Mine was painted a very nice light gray color.

I'm not nuts about the appearance of concrete, so when we built the current
shop, I chose to dye the concrete instead of paint it. I use a generous
amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean, not oily. I also have a
built in vacuum cleaner system so it doesn't get dusty.

If the idea of dying the concrete appeals to you, dying it gray is not very
expensive, especially if you ask them to halve the lowest formulation they
show for gray. It turns out a very nice light gray and doesn't cost more
than a couple bucks/yard for the color. They use lamp black for gray, but
other colors are made from expensive additives, so the cost could turn ugly
in a hurry. Talk to your concrete supply people to see what they have to
offer if you like the idea.

I heat hydronically and wouldn't have it any other way. The floor is
6-1/4" thick, so the hoses are deep enough to permit anchoring things if
necessary.

Think about installing your airlines and electrical in the walls, not on the
surface. That makes for much easier house keeping. I think I'd recommend
copper air lines, although mine are PVC. We all know how bad that can be.

Good luck with the new shop. Be sure to post some pics for us when you're
finished.

Harold

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

I'm not nuts about the appearance of concrete, so when we built the current
shop, I chose to dye the concrete instead of paint it. I use a generous
amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean, not oily. I also have a
built in vacuum cleaner system so it doesn't get dusty.

Did you use a purpose-build vacuum or a modified shop-vac?
I've been thinking about running 3" PVC around and connecting
it to a shop-vac in the loft. Do you know if there's a place
to get adapters to make something like this work? It probably
wouldn't be a big deal to turn adapters on the lathe if they
aren't readily available.

Jim Stewart wrote:
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

I'm not nuts about the appearance of concrete, so when we built the current
shop, I chose to dye the concrete instead of paint it. I use a generous
amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean, not oily. I also have a
built in vacuum cleaner system so it doesn't get dusty.

Did you use a purpose-build vacuum or a modified shop-vac?
I've been thinking about running 3" PVC around and connecting
it to a shop-vac in the loft. Do you know if there's a place
to get adapters to make something like this work? It probably
wouldn't be a big deal to turn adapters on the lathe if they
aren't readily available.

3" is too large I suspect.
You need to keep flow velocity up, so that sand particles (or worse, metal
filings) don't fall to the bottom of the pipe and clog it.

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
...
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

I'm not nuts about the appearance of concrete, so when we built the
current
shop, I chose to dye the concrete instead of paint it. I use a generous
amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean, not oily. I also have
a
built in vacuum cleaner system so it doesn't get dusty.

Did you use a purpose-build vacuum or a modified shop-vac?
I've been thinking about running 3" PVC around and connecting
it to a shop-vac in the loft. Do you know if there's a place
to get adapters to make something like this work? It probably
wouldn't be a big deal to turn adapters on the lathe if they
aren't readily available.


Unless you have a killer vacuum cleaner, I'd suggest you don't go beyond 2"
pipe. 3" would likely be so large that you'd pick up items that would get
dropped once they hit the larger pipe, thanks to reduced velocity of the air
flow. I used schedule 40 PVC pipe and 2" ABS fittings. They are just
slightly larger than the pipe supplied by the manufacturers of built in
cleaning systems, but with a much heavier wall. By using both glues, or
one made for both materials, the joints are more than adequate. Remember,
they are under vacuum, not pressure, so the strength of the glue joint is
not an issue. In the shop I terminated each of several outlets simply by
using a piece of 1-1/2" ABS pipe, which I cap with a rubber cap when not in
use. I use commercial hose like you find in car washes for a vacuum hose
in the shop. For the house my plan is to buy the outlets that are made for
homes. They include the automatic switch. I use a simple toggle switch
at each outlet in the shop, where everything is in the walls except for the
outlet and switch, so the installation is completely out of sight.

Armed with the idea that the vacuum we bought would be used in the house as
well as the shop, which we built first, we chose to buy a large commercial
sized built-in vacuum cleaner, a Vacuflo model 960. I chose it over all
others because it does NOT have a filter bag, so it doesn't experience
reduced cleaning ability. In place of the filter bag it is plumbed directly
outside, where the finest of dust that isn't extracted by the cyclonic
separator is discharged. It keeps the interior of any place much cleaner by
not recirculating dirty air. The model 960 has two motors and is adequate
to clean up to 18,000 square feet of area. A unit that doesn't move much
air is likely to disappoint, so don't get caught up with a wimpy unit and
expect great results. Many of the shop vac's I've used wouldn't be worth
installing.

Try to mount your vacuum on something that won't transmit noise. I have a
dedicated room for the vacuum cleaner, shared by my compressor. You don't
hear anything when it runs except for the air moving at the hose. Makes it
much nicer than hearing an entire building rumbling, something that you'd
likely experience by mounting your vacuum on an upper floor.

Hope some of this helps!

Harold

Seems to me I remember a magic 4000 linear feet per minute of
flow in a line to keep the bigger particles air born and moving
along. That works out to about 200 cfm of vacum cleaner, a HUGE
vac. My 2 hp Jet double bag dust collector is rated at 1200 (??)
cfm, works great on 4", starts getting bit wimpy on 5".

Jim Stewart wrote:

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

I'm not nuts about the appearance of concrete, so when we built the
current
shop, I chose to dye the concrete instead of paint it. I use a generous
amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean, not oily. I also have a
built in vacuum cleaner system so it doesn't get dusty.


Did you use a purpose-build vacuum or a modified shop-vac?
I've been thinking about running 3" PVC around and connecting
it to a shop-vac in the loft. Do you know if there's a place
to get adapters to make something like this work? It probably
wouldn't be a big deal to turn adapters on the lathe if they
aren't readily available.

Hello Harold,
. . I use a generous amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean, not oily.
Please explain for all of us over the pond.
Regards
GeoffH
Norfolk - UK

"GeoffH @hotmail.com" nospam wrote in message
...
Hello Harold,
. . I use a generous amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean,
not oily.
Please explain for all of us over the pond.
Regards
GeoffH
Norfolk - UK

Hi Geoff,

I will assume that you folks have the same product on that side of the pond
that we have here. If not, it is a clay product made in coarse granulated
particles that are used for absorbing oil spills and also for litter in cat
boxes for those that keep their cats indoors. http://www.oildri.com/


I keep a generous amount of Oil-Dri anywhere that I'm likely to have any
dripping, such as under the headstock of my aged lathe, for example. I
also keep it around the base of my Bridgeport. Beyond that, if I
experience a spill, the first thing I do is wipe up the excess oil with a
rag, then cover the area that is oil saturated with solvent (Stoddard
solvent or mineral spirits) and work it in with a small brush. Do not use
gasoline (petrol) for obvious reasons. At that point I cover the wetted
area with Oil-Dri, then saturate the Oil-Dri with more solvent. As the
solvent evaporates, it draws the oil from the concrete and into the Oil-Dri.
Leave the Oil-Dri until it has dried completely. By using this method
you can clean concrete so well you can't see where the oil was, although if
it has had time to sink in it may require a couple repetitions of the
solvent application.

As stated in another thread earlier today, I have cleaned driveways that
have had years of oil accumulation with outstanding results. The nice
part is it doesn't require any effort on your part, the solvent does the
work.

Hope this helps clear up the mystery!

Regards,

Harold

Hello Harold,
Thanks for the info.
Yes we do have an Alganite clay granules product sold by Castrol at
£5/20litre bag called MOP.
Sold as an oil and grease absorbent.
Never used it though.
Before these high tech solutions, I just used cement.
Just a tad messy.
Must give these granules a try.
Wonder if vermiculite or perlite would do the same?
Regards
GeoffH

Hi Geoff,

I will assume that you folks have the same product on that side of the pond
that we have here. If not, it is a clay product made in coarse granulated
particles that are used for absorbing oil spills and also for litter in cat
boxes for those that keep their cats indoors. http://www.oildri.com/


I keep a generous amount of Oil-Dri anywhere that I'm likely to have any
dripping, such as under the headstock of my aged lathe, for example. I
also keep it around the base of my Bridgeport. Beyond that, if I
experience a spill, the first thing I do is wipe up the excess oil with a
rag, then cover the area that is oil saturated with solvent (Stoddard
solvent or mineral spirits) and work it in with a small brush. Do not use
gasoline (petrol) for obvious reasons. At that point I cover the wetted
area with Oil-Dri, then saturate the Oil-Dri with more solvent. As the
solvent evaporates, it draws the oil from the concrete and into the Oil-Dri.
Leave the Oil-Dri until it has dried completely. By using this method
you can clean concrete so well you can't see where the oil was, although if
it has had time to sink in it may require a couple repetitions of the
solvent application.

As stated in another thread earlier today, I have cleaned driveways that
have had years of oil accumulation with outstanding results. The nice
part is it doesn't require any effort on your part, the solvent does the
work.

Hope this helps clear up the mystery!

Regards,

Harold

GeoffH wrote in
:

Hello Harold,
Thanks for the info.
Yes we do have an Alganite clay granules product sold by Castrol at
£5/20litre bag called MOP.
Sold as an oil and grease absorbent.
Never used it though.
Before these high tech solutions, I just used cement.

Clay cat litter, the cheaper the better (fewer clumping
addatives and scents).
--Glenn Lyford

"GeoffH @hotmail.com" nospam wrote in message
...
Hello Harold,
Thanks for the info.
Yes we do have an Alganite clay granules product sold by Castrol at
£5/20litre bag called MOP.
Sold as an oil and grease absorbent.
Never used it though.
Before these high tech solutions, I just used cement.
Just a tad messy.
Must give these granules a try.
Wonder if vermiculite or perlite would do the same?
Regards
GeoffH


Hi Geoff,

Wow! Shocking price you have to pay for the product. It's quite
inexpensive here.

I think you'll find it works quite well compared to cement, and easier to
deal with. The one advantage is it can be used and reused until it is
saturated, at which time I discard it. Mean time I sweep it up and place
it back in the storage container along with the stuff that hasn't been used
yet. It lasts a long time.

I don't think vermiculite or perlite would perform the same way that the
clay does. Could be wrong, though. You have to see this stuff work
before it makes much sense. It truly has a thirst for oils, and a huge
holding capacity.

Why don't you give us your impression if you give it a go?

Regards,

Harold

Actually its uniformly granulated bentonite clay, absorbs some
huge percentage of its weight in water. For oil drips, pour it
on, smudge it it hard with your shoe to grind the granuals into
powder.

And of course, same stuff as kitty litter.

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"GeoffH @hotmail.com" nospam wrote in message
...

Hello Harold,

. . I use a generous amount of Oil-Dri, so my floor stays very clean,

not oily.

Please explain for all of us over the pond.
Regards
GeoffH
Norfolk - UK


Hi Geoff,

I will assume that you folks have the same product on that side of the pond
that we have here. If not, it is a clay product made in coarse granulated
particles that are used for absorbing oil spills and also for litter in cat
boxes for those that keep their cats indoors. http://www.oildri.com/


I keep a generous amount of Oil-Dri anywhere that I'm likely to have any
dripping, such as under the headstock of my aged lathe, for example. I
also keep it around the base of my Bridgeport. Beyond that, if I
experience a spill, the first thing I do is wipe up the excess oil with a
rag, then cover the area that is oil saturated with solvent (Stoddard
solvent or mineral spirits) and work it in with a small brush. Do not use
gasoline (petrol) for obvious reasons. At that point I cover the wetted
area with Oil-Dri, then saturate the Oil-Dri with more solvent. As the
solvent evaporates, it draws the oil from the concrete and into the Oil-Dri.
Leave the Oil-Dri until it has dried completely. By using this method
you can clean concrete so well you can't see where the oil was, although if
it has had time to sink in it may require a couple repetitions of the
solvent application.

As stated in another thread earlier today, I have cleaned driveways that
have had years of oil accumulation with outstanding results. The nice
part is it doesn't require any effort on your part, the solvent does the
work.

Hope this helps clear up the mystery!

Regards,

Harold

If your neighborhood is like mine AND if you are getting a permit for this
work, then you won't have any choice - you will have to put in fire-preventive
drywall.

I painted my first shop's floor with expensive epoxy paint. After 4 years I
wanted to repaint it - millions of chips, scrapes, dings everywhere. I sanded
it and cleaned it immaculately. Then I painted it exactly to the manufacturer's
spec. It PEELED. Now I'm never going to paint a concrete floor again and if I
do it will be plain old floor enamel. My new floor is bare concrete and the
thing I don't like about it is oil soaks in. Bummer.

I use a 2-ton folding engine hoist of a modern import design, modified to
accept an 8-ton long-throw air over hydraulic pump.

I use low-profile fluorescent lighting that the garage door clears.

I do welding/grinding or woodwork outside my shop. I used to have a canopy
just out front which extended the season wonderfully - I'll have to replace
that one of these days. I do machine work inside. I don't paint in there
either.

Oh - here's a very important bit--get a SOLID agreement with your whole family
that this is YOUR space and is NEVER to be used to store things like Christmas
ornaments or old toys. This will never work unless you have another space for
things like that which you use in concert with a focussed plan for clutter
control in your life.

I have 200 amps of power to my shop, more than I need. I have a 30A phase
converter (7½ hp idler) which is wired into the system and there are 3
different "busses" of electrical wiring run around my shop - there is a 117V
bus, a 220V single phase bus, and a 220V three phase bus. I have a 4-gang
117V outlet box about every eight feet on my walls, up where I can see them.
The 220V single phase busses terminate in 4" square boxes, and the three phase
busses terminate in small disconnect boxes.

At present I still run airlines all over my floor as needed. However, I did
forge a bunch of hooks so I have biggish hooks on many studs to hang cords,
welding lead, torch lead, and air hose on.

A big improvement came when I bought some real sets of sheet metal drawers.
If you can, plan in a few hundred drawers - and pay attention when you buy
them. The ones 18" deep are much more useful than the ones 12" deep. Buy a
good labelmaker and put things in drawers as you come upon them, and label
a bunch of drawers all at once. Later you can move the drawers around to
get them in reasonable order. Between the wall hooks and the drawers, the
clutter in my shop went down by a factor of 100 or more.

This spring I am building an outdoor undercover rack for metal stock - this
isn't stock for machine work, rather for fabrication work which I seem to do
a lot more of. I'm planning to cut all metal to 10' lengths when it comes in,
and to have it all up on end so I can more easily remove any piece. I'm going
to separate it into angle, flat, pipe, square tube, round bar, square bar.
That will get me a lot more space inside my shop.

I suggest measuring the footprint of your tools and scaling them down and
going onto your computer, make a scale drawing of your shop (probably a
rectangle) and put all your major components in there (all drawn to scale)
and then you can move them around and think about your layout. That's a whole
lot easier than moving things around full scale! It's good to also start with
the end in mind. Are you ever going to bring home a surface grinder? Where
will you put it? A hydraulic press? A propane forge? A big belt sander?

Finally, the more I go into metalworking, the more I realize the value of one
of my simplest tools - the lowly file. Think carefully about how you store your
files and buy them good quality handles and keep them sharp.

Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington


Peter Corbett wrote:
Good Day Everyone

I am one of the silent ones that read the postings in this newsgroup.....I
am building my garage/shop as soon as the snow disappears.Many of you have
gone thru this..I am trying to think of what I should plan into this garage
before I build it...I am a Machinist and Millwright by trade and I also
enjoy woodworking and welding. I am open to all suggestions ....here are a
few ...but please feel free to add more..

-what to paint the concrete with?
-what type of exhaust system?
-which is better drywall or plywood interior ?
-different hoist systems?
-what seems to be the common electrical requirements?

Thats kind of a start...but as I said please feel free to suggest things to
put in or do......I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
snip----

My new floor is bare concrete and the
thing I don't like about it is oil soaks in. Bummer.

Grant Erwin

At worst, it's nothing more than an inconvenience, Grant. When you find
a spill, wipe up the free oil, then cover the area with solvent and wipe it
about with a small brush until you've dissolved all the surface oil. Cover
the area with Oil-Dri, then saturate the Oil-Dri with more solvent
(Stoddard, or mineral spirits). Let air dry. When it's dry, the stain is
usually gone. If not, repeat. The capillary action of the evaporating
solvent will draw the diluted oil out of the concrete. Works like a charm.
I've removed years old oil stains in driveways with compete success.

Harold

"Peter Corbett" wrote in message
news:0jx1c.659214$JQ1.469994@pd7tw1no...
I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.

First off you should not be negotiating with the warden you are the one that
should be entitled to unquestioning obedience. Not that I was able to get
that deal either, but somewhere you got to draw the line and the shop is the
place.

Since your size is restricted in two dimentions, you will need to dig the
basement deep enough to gain an additional floor below and then you will
have to build up also. Since you also lost valuable floor space to park a
van inside be sure to put a pole right where the door to the van will open.
This will discourage parking the car inside so you can slowly co-opt the
space you lost in negotiations.

Of course this might start an insufferable whining about wanting a station
wagon so you need to design the pole to be moveable or bolt down the
compressor where the door to the wagon will be.

If the butget does not allow for a second story at this time, design the
building to be easily modified later.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.




I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete

Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Peter Corbett" wrote in message
news:0jx1c.659214$JQ1.469994@pd7tw1no...
I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to save
room for her to park her van in the winter.

First off you should not be negotiating with the warden you are the one that
should be entitled to unquestioning obedience. Not that I was able to get
that deal either, but somewhere you got to draw the line and the shop is the
place.

Since your size is restricted in two dimentions, you will need to dig the
basement deep enough to gain an additional floor below and then you will
have to build up also. Since you also lost valuable floor space to park a
van inside be sure to put a pole right where the door to the van will open.
This will discourage parking the car inside so you can slowly co-opt the
space you lost in negotiations.

Of course this might start an insufferable whining about wanting a station
wagon so you need to design the pole to be moveable or bolt down the
compressor where the door to the wagon will be.

If the butget does not allow for a second story at this time, design the
building to be easily modified later.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

Very devious and underhanded schemes. Filed accordingly for possible future use.

mj




I would like to try and
implement improvements to my design before its built and try to have no
regrets after its done.

Thank You in advance

Pete

"michael" wrote in message
...
Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Peter Corbett" wrote in message
news:0jx1c.659214$JQ1.469994@pd7tw1no...
I finally talked the warden into the size...She was a
tough sell but I did it.It will be 28 x 32....the only clause is to
save
room for her to park her van in the winter.

First off you should not be negotiating with the warden you are the one
that
should be entitled to unquestioning obedience. Not that I was able to
get
that deal either, but somewhere you got to draw the line and the shop is
the
place.

Since your size is restricted in two dimentions, you will need to dig
the
basement deep enough to gain an additional floor below and then you will
have to build up also. Since you also lost valuable floor space to
park a
van inside be sure to put a pole right where the door to the van will
open.
This will discourage parking the car inside so you can slowly co-opt the
space you lost in negotiations.

Of course this might start an insufferable whining about wanting a
station
wagon so you need to design the pole to be moveable or bolt down the
compressor where the door to the wagon will be.

If the butget does not allow for a second story at this time, design the
building to be easily modified later.

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the
solvent.

Very devious and underhanded schemes. Filed accordingly for possible
future use.

mj



Yep and quit referring to it as the garage, it's the Work Shop!! That will
reduce the pain with the temporary parking permit is rescinded :-)

William....

www.wacworkshop.com

You lucky dog.
With the size and sharing constraints you have, I'd do it like this.
Put a 9' OH door at the far end 2' from the outside wall on the 32' side.
Put another one 16" from that one. Separate them with a partition. Put a 3'
pocket door in the partition 6' from the wall at the back of the garage. Now
SWMBO has a dedicated parking place and room at the back for storage. For
Xmas decorations, switch to Islam. For all the rest of the crap that
collects in a family, put a dumpster enclosure outside.
Now, for your 2/3's of the space. I wouldn't paint the concrete. I'd use a
shake-on color/hardener when the slab is poured. It is shaken on and mixed
into the mud on the surface with the float machine. It's about 1/4" thick
when finished and wears like iron because it has iron in it.There is no
dust. A sealer protects against stains and can be renewed, but probably wont
have to be in our lifetimes of home use. The color wont chip peel crack or
fade, it's part of the concrete. Pick a color you like. I like white or
light gray. There is a large range of these available. Talk to your concrete
contractor. If you do the slab yourself with some buddies, get at least two
who do flatwork for a living to run the show, and know what to do. Once the
mud is poured you don't have time to scratch your head, mistakes made on the
slab are expensive to correct.
I would probably frame the whole thing with steel studs joists and rafters.
Make it as tall as codes and architectural aesthetics will allow. If you
can, make your OH door 10' high. Firerock on the inside walls. 1/4" tempered
hardboard 4' up to protect walls. Lots of 120 VAC outlets 4' high on
walls.Copper air lines inside the walls 6' high with a sub out every 8' or
so. 3 phase loop around the room 5' high with a 4x4 box every 8'. Ceiling
outlets near the OH door and in the middle of the room. Air lines at those
locations also.
OSB sheathing on the outside. Finish O/S to suit home. Separate little room
outside the building behind the dumpster enc. for mechanicals, central vac,
3 phase converter. H2O heater, beer cooler etc. zoned hydronic heat, lots of
light fixtures.
Thanks for the opportunity to fantasize.
Tom.
PS Put sign on the door "NO GIRLS ALLOWED"

Well thankyou for the input there were a lot of great suggestions....I even
put my foot down and told my woman this is the way its going to be.....I now
get to plan an upstairs.....7/12 pitch gives me a 6'high x 10' wide x 32'
long room upstairs.....alittle heat.....a hot plate and bar fridge and i'll
be ready to move in......she has promised visiting rights to my kids at
Christmas.....AHHHHH bring on the construction season........

Pete

Peter Corbett wrote:
Well thankyou for the input there were a lot of great suggestions....I even
put my foot down and told my woman this is the way its going to be.....I now
get to plan an upstairs.....7/12 pitch gives me a 6'high x 10' wide x 32'
long room upstairs.....alittle heat.....a hot plate and bar fridge and i'll
be ready to move in......she has promised visiting rights to my kids at
Christmas.....AHHHHH bring on the construction season........

Pete


Do you get a window too?

A friend built his garage/shop with a cloistery roof and lots of
light in a second story office/storage area. Second story square
footage is about half of the lower. Orignal intent was to have
home office space for his wife, the kids wound up using it for a
huge playhouse. Now a days, it works well for all the Christmas
stuff, etc. Downside is that the shop level has to have posts to
get in the way and a defined height ceiling, his is about 8'. Of
course the ceiling can be insulated and sheet rocked, makes it
much easier to heat.

Peter Corbett wrote:

Well thankyou for the input there were a lot of great suggestions....I even
put my foot down and told my woman this is the way its going to be.....I now
get to plan an upstairs.....7/12 pitch gives me a 6'high x 10' wide x 32'
long room upstairs.....alittle heat.....a hot plate and bar fridge and i'll
be ready to move in......she has promised visiting rights to my kids at
Christmas.....AHHHHH bring on the construction season........

Pete

In article ,
Roy J wrote:

Downside is that the shop level has to have posts to
get in the way

Not for certain, these days. The second story on my shop is designed for
50PSF (actually comes in about 56) and clear-spans 22 feet 8 inches. I
did have to special-order some serious I-joists to do that, but it beats
having posts in the lower level.

Dad did a similar span with gluelam beams and regular joists from beam
to beam - depends what you can get at a better price in your local
market, at a given time. Steel may be cheaper in some markets.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

In my machine shop I got my metal rack first thing to the right inside
my main door... Left side cut-off saw... In the middle of the room is
a well-caseing 8"pipe from the floor to the roof with an I-beam tram
that will swing all the way around the shop.... Anything that comes in
the door I can pick up and move anywhere in the shop with this lift...
So easy to build and so handy to use...

.. In the middle of the room is a well-caseing 8"pipe from the floor to the roof with an I-beam tram
that will swing all the way around the shop....
So easy to build and so handy to use...

Hello Kevin,
Now this sound extremely interesting.
More details of photos please.
Regards
GeoffH
Norfolk - UK