|
Conservatives vs Liberals vs "just leave me alone"ers was I may never "sharpen" a knife again (using a S
This usurping of our freedoms will inevitably lead to civil war where
votes are counted in bullets. I have no idea when this will happen, but history is pretty clear that ALL governments end in civil war or invasion./ And the conservatives will be well armed! |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message ... Final score, no shots, 3 runs and 1 foul. Shrug..it could well have been far worse. You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will improve your whole outlook on life. Ed Huntress I just thought the same thing. As I was reading his prose, I thought to myself, "What the hell did this guy do to deserve such a life? And why does he continue to tolerate it?" I do begin to understand your anger, if not your political leanings. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:57:46 GMT, Abrasha wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message ... Final score, no shots, 3 runs and 1 foul. Shrug..it could well have been far worse. You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will improve your whole outlook on life. Ed Huntress I just thought the same thing. As I was reading his prose, I thought to myself, "What the hell did this guy do to deserve such a life? And why does he continue to tolerate it?" I do begin to understand your anger, if not your political leanings. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com Anger? Shrug..the world can and is a very dangerous place. At home, I dont even lock the doors if I go uptown for a couple hours. Many folks leave their car keys in the ignition. Shrug..other places (those typically run by Liberals btw :P) tend to be a bit less lawful. The only anger I have, is for the liberals who consider the plight of the criminal, rather than the law abiding citizen. Those three pukes have likely been in trouble before..but were loose on the street. With little fear of the system or the citizen. BTW..:LA is not a place anyone can get a CCW. There are lots of places like this, DC, Sydney, NYC, Chicago, London, etc etc where if you go to the wrong place..commend your soul to God, and cover your ass as best you can. On the other hand..most places only have petty crime at worst. Im sure Ed's been to at least one Westec show. He knows the area surrounding the facility. Want to walk those streets at 9pm? I made a bet once with a strident anti-gun controller..that we would start off on foot from East LA and walk to Downey at 12am on a Friday night with 5, $100 bills stapled to our shirts. He could go unarmed and talk his way out of any problems, and I would go as I saw fit. The survivor..errr winner was the one who got to the finish line with the most money still on the shirt. Oddly enough..he refused to take that bet. I wonder why? Unless you live in a small town, or a gated community...shrug..read the crime reports for your area and see how safe you are. I dont worry about people targeting me..its those To Whom it May Concern crimes that I prepare for. But then, I wear seat belts, have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers handy as well. And I refuse to permit anti- seat belt/smoke detector/fire extinguisher fanatics from taking them away from me. Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message
... Im sure Ed's been to at least one Westec show. He knows the area surrounding the facility. Want to walk those streets at 9pm? Actually, I'm going there again in a couple of weeks, and yes, I walk all around at night. I only get to L.A. once every couple of years or so and I gawk all around like the tourist I am. However, I'd much rather walk down the West side of Manhattan late at night. In fact, I did it nearly every night for four years. 'Never saw a gun. 'Never was threatened in any way. When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree. They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun? Ed Huntress |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
I just thought the same thing. As I was reading his prose, I thought to myself, "What the hell did this guy do to deserve such a life? And why does he continue to tolerate it?" I do begin to understand your anger, if not your political leanings. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com Gracious, but this do sound like the old saying about a conservative being a liberal after he was mugged. John Martin |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
Ed Huntress wrote:
You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will improve your whole outlook on life. I understand the point you're trying to make, but this is just giving up territory to the criminals, generally leaving behind those that can't afford to move and are less likely to be able to defend themselves. Not everyone can up and move when trouble shows up. And even rural areas are getting dangerous. Meth is a big problem in Nevada County, and there are some really scary people running around. I know, my wife works at the county jail and gets to see lots of them. Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story. We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after each other. So far... Jon |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Jon Anderson" wrote in message
... Ed Huntress wrote: You've just got to move to a better neighborhood, Gunner. It will improve your whole outlook on life. I understand the point you're trying to make, but this is just giving up territory to the criminals, generally leaving behind those that can't afford to move and are less likely to be able to defend themselves. Not everyone can up and move when trouble shows up. And even rural areas are getting dangerous. Meth is a big problem in Nevada County, and there are some really scary people running around. I know, my wife works at the county jail and gets to see lots of them. Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story. We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after each other. So far... Jon There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a gun. Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your resentment about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole point. As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about prepared to dispense violence in self-defense." If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination to do what you can to change it. Ed Huntress |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:30:25 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . Im sure Ed's been to at least one Westec show. He knows the area surrounding the facility. Want to walk those streets at 9pm? Actually, I'm going there again in a couple of weeks, and yes, I walk all around at night. I only get to L.A. once every couple of years or so and I gawk all around like the tourist I am. However, I'd much rather walk down the West side of Manhattan late at night. In fact, I did it nearly every night for four years. 'Never saw a gun. 'Never was threatened in any way. When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree. They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun? Ed Huntress Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there? Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:40:34 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story. We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after each other. So far... Jon There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a gun. Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your resentment about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole point. As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about prepared to dispense violence in self-defense." If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination to do what you can to change it. Ed Huntress So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of having good tires? They are for the **** Happens stuff, just like a defensive firearm. And you can pontificate all you want..up till the moment you are approached by a couple social misfits who want to share your wealth or your life. At that point..what you believe, what you want, what ever philosophical mind set you have developed...all goes out the window and you are suddenly given a reality check. With luck, you dont have to cash it. Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message ... Anger? Shrug..the world can and is a very dangerous place. snip There are lots of places like this, DC, Sydney, NYC, Chicago, London, etc etc where if you go to the wrong place..commend your soul to God, and cover your ass as best you can. Ummmm... More information please, Gunner. I've only lived in Sydney's 'burbs for nigh-on 50 years, so maybe I've missed something. King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern? I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs going are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the cab. Should I have shot him? Where are these "wrong places"? Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref the recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!) If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled to your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place." Its pretty dangerous if you stand blindfolded in traffic, too. Maybe you should shoot the drivers who don't swerve to miss you? (for their criminal negligence) Shrug. Whatever. Jeff. (still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.) |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message
... When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree. They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun? Ed Huntress Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there? Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point. Ed Huntress |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:40:34 GMT, "Ed Huntress" wrote: Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story. We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after each other. So far... Jon There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a gun. Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your resentment about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole point. As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about prepared to dispense violence in self-defense." If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination to do what you can to change it. Ed Huntress So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of having good tires? That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is evidence of a spiritual failure. Ed Huntress |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:57:47 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:47:05 GMT, wrote: You might try moving. Just don't leave the boogeyman your forwarding address. Its unfortunate that good paying jobs are not available in the safer rural areas. So those of us who depend on large industrial areas for our bread and butter have to work there. East LA. Compton, Watts, Downey, etc etc. Industrial areas that look like the worst of the East German border areas after 5pm Aren't you the guy who said his gross is $40k and that it takes 65k miles per year of commuting to earn it? That's not what I'd call a good paying job. If you can afford a computer, an ISP account, and the time to use them ah.... quite a bit, then you can afford to move to a better area. I wouldn't say that our own rural area has many high-paying jobs, yet off hand I know one guy with a thriving biz who's looking for a new hire, and a mile from him another who has a nice home that's vacant with a large shop on acreage. He might even swap rent for property maintenance. Both on a tree-covered mountaintop BTW. Could be a nice setup for someone with even average technical skills, and a dream compared to your situation. But I'm thinkin' that even though this is a safe rural area, if you lived here you'd be just like one of my neighbors who wears a sidearm full time. On guard against the jackrabbits and boogeymen I guess. Wayne |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Gunner" wrote in message ... When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree. They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun? Ed Huntress Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there? Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point. Ed Huntress Yes he does, because he's stuck, hopelessly stuck. If he'd move to greener pastures, he'd have to give up so much of his old self, he wouldn't know what to do with himself. He's a skilled man, and a survivor, who could find a job almost anywhere, and for some reason he's tied himself down to ... what exactly? A large pile of metal and other assorted junk in his back yard judging from his web site. I suggest honest selfexamination, many years of it. With the help of a trained professional. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
Gunner wrote:
And you can pontificate all you want..up till the moment you are approached by a couple social misfits who want to share your wealth or your life. At that point..what you believe, what you want, what ever philosophical mind set you have developed...all goes out the window and you are suddenly given a reality check. With luck, you dont have to cash it. Interesting. In your life, as you say, you have been confronted on several occasions by people who were out to harm you in a bad way. And, again as you describe it, you feel that because of the fact that you have had a gun in those situations, you were able to diffuse those situations. In my life, I have never been confronted, with any of the situations, that you have been confronted with. Once I have been in a situation that someone wanted to harm me (an Englishman on a bad LSD trip). We are of similar age I think. So why is it, that one person has all these excperiences involving potential physical harm, guns, criminals, and other undesirables, and the other has not. Genes, upbringing, education, luck? Who knows. I firmly believe, that a person creates his own reality, whatever that reality may be. You have a hand in ALL that happens to you. It is not always easy to accept this. However, once you do, and see the truth in this, it will set you free. Trust me Gunner, you choose. Every moment of your life it is you who chooses to live that life. Noone forces you to live the life you live, but you. Once you get that, it is easy to change it. It's that easy. Sadly, it seems that you have chosen a life that is filled with people who, by your own account, are after you, and with guns, so you can keep these people at a distance. Your "nom de plume" speaks volumes about you too. It doesn't have to be this way. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
Abrasha wrote:
Yes he does, because he's stuck, hopelessly stuck. If he'd move to greener pastures, he'd have to give up so much of his old self, he wouldn't know what to do with himself. He's a skilled man, and a survivor, who could find a job almost anywhere, and for some reason he's tied himself down to ... what exactly? A large pile of metal and other assorted junk in his back yard judging from his web site. I suggest honest selfexamination, many years of it. With the help of a trained professional. If I've read his posts correctly, Gunner hasn't had much trouble at his home, but while working his business or otherwise away from home. Hell, I live in one of the reputedly safest neighborhoods in Ohio and not long ago a neighbor ran off two gentlemen of color and "colors" from Akron at gunpoint. Apparently they'd secured the son's name and address from a friend at BMV and were intent on evening a score for "dissing" them at a dance club. At least that's what they reportedly said. Of course, I didn't get to hear their stories, but their coming 20 or more miles from home into a strange neighborhood, bearing knives and clubs and destroying a family's front door, doesn't induce me to think their purpose was entirely benign. Unless one lives in a gated, guarded community, the chance of encountering "street violence" is non-zero, even if you _don't_ live in a bad neighborhood. The bad neighborhood might just come to you. And one just might encounter problems other than at home. Must one surrender all freedom of movement for avoiding danger or criminality? Once it was considered an honorable civic duty to hinder or stop a crime in progress, if possible, and self-defense is always a good reason for counter violence, though not for initiating it. I try not to forget that "to Protect and Serve" is a motto, not a promise. |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:25:06 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree. They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun? Ed Huntress Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there? Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point. Ed Huntress But I have to work there..and thats the point. And you ignore the poor *******s that do have to live there who are unable to protect themselves. Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:41:45 +1100, "A.Gent"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . Anger? Shrug..the world can and is a very dangerous place. snip There are lots of places like this, DC, Sydney, NYC, Chicago, London, etc etc where if you go to the wrong place..commend your soul to God, and cover your ass as best you can. Ummmm... More information please, Gunner. I've only lived in Sydney's 'burbs for nigh-on 50 years, so maybe I've missed something. King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern? I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs going are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the cab. Should I have shot him? Did you have reasonable cause to believe that your life was in danger? If not..of course not. Where are these "wrong places"? Redfern is a good start. The "Block" sounds like a dangerous place to be after dark. Kings Cross has always been a exciting place.... Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref the recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!) Heroin addicts tend to make assault a habit as well... If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled to your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place." So you are saying that one can indeed be in danger in Sydney? Lets replace those $100 bills with expensive cameras and do the same shall we? Its pretty dangerous if you stand blindfolded in traffic, too. Maybe you should shoot the drivers who don't swerve to miss you? (for their criminal negligence) Shrug. Whatever. Interesting set of strawmen you fabricate. Is there some reason you felt the need to spin and divert? Jeff. (still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.) Good for you. What makes you think anyone with a gun, or a fire extinguisher is paranoid? Gunner Asch The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:13:42 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:40:34 GMT, "Ed Huntress" wrote: Folks that just read the local paper are not getting the full story. We're lucky that, outside of burglaries, they seem to prefer going after each other. So far... Jon There is a time and circumstance to revert to defending yourself with a gun. Making it a cause celeb, a way of life, or a way to assert your resentment about crime and its effects is a case of having forfeited the whole point. As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about prepared to dispense violence in self-defense." If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination to do what you can to change it. Ed Huntress So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of having good tires? That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is evidence of a spiritual failure. Ed Huntress The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin. Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that? You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be used. If your vehicle is parked or driven very slowly on a manicured parking lot..its unlikley you will ever get a blow out. If you live in a high security gated community its unlikely anyone will attack you. Its the rest of the places you go that are a bit more problematic. Drive near a construction site..the chances of a flat are a lot higher. Work/travel in a high crime rate area..the chances of an attack are a lot higher. Whats do difficult for you to understand about that? Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a
blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin. Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that? You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be used. If your vehicle is parked or driven very slowly on a manicured parking lot..its unlikley you will ever get a blow out. If you live in a high security gated community its unlikely anyone will attack you. Its the rest of the places you go that are a bit more problematic. Drive near a construction site..the chances of a flat are a lot higher. Work/travel in a high crime rate area..the chances of an attack are a lot higher. Whats do difficult for you to understand about that? Gunner It is amazing to me that people who have never been in fear for their life truly believe that they never will nor will anyone else. So why do they or anyone else need a gun? I like your analogy of the spare tire and jack. Hopefully we'll never need it but it's there if and when you do. If everyone was required to own and carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen to the crime rate? Lane |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:18:40 GMT, Abrasha wrote:
Gunner wrote: And you can pontificate all you want..up till the moment you are approached by a couple social misfits who want to share your wealth or your life. At that point..what you believe, what you want, what ever philosophical mind set you have developed...all goes out the window and you are suddenly given a reality check. With luck, you dont have to cash it. Interesting. In your life, as you say, you have been confronted on several occasions by people who were out to harm you in a bad way. And, again as you describe it, you feel that because of the fact that you have had a gun in those situations, you were able to diffuse those situations. In my life, I have never been confronted, with any of the situations, that you have been confronted with. Once I have been in a situation that someone wanted to harm me (an Englishman on a bad LSD trip). We are of similar age I think. So why is it, that one person has all these excperiences involving potential physical harm, guns, criminals, and other undesirables, and the other has not. Genes, upbringing, education, luck? Who knows. I firmly believe, that a person creates his own reality, whatever that reality may be. You have a hand in ALL that happens to you. It is not always easy to accept this. However, once you do, and see the truth in this, it will set you free. Trust me Gunner, you choose. Every moment of your life it is you who chooses to live that life. Noone forces you to live the life you live, but you. Once you get that, it is easy to change it. It's that easy. Sadly, it seems that you have chosen a life that is filled with people who, by your own account, are after you, and with guns, so you can keep these people at a distance. Your "nom de plume" speaks volumes about you too. It doesn't have to be this way. Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com True. But it's difficult to get 3-phase power up on top of a mountain in a cave. Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:34:24 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Actually last year my gross was about $26k. With the 65k mileage. Since the big layoffs in 2001, I am now an independent machine tool repair technician. This means I work on machines in machine shops. If there are no machine shops (or few of them) then I have no work. No work =no money. no money= no mortgage payment=out on the street. So perhaps its best that I stay where there are machine shops, no? Hard to find enough machine shops in Podunk Falls to make a living fixing their machines/phone systems/plant maint. If you can repair machine tools, then there are lots of trades you could handle. The one I mentioned pays more and is plain and simple a better job and life than you've described. With as many friends as you have (what the yuppies call a network) you ought to be able to find a suitable situation in a heartbeat. Im also 50 yrs old, with an ailing wife, no savings (well, I have $100 in my pocket for emergencies) and a home that will be paid off in about 12 months, however it happens to be in a town that is dying, and selling it would result in a net loss. Cut your losses or keep treading water, an easy decision IMO. As to your neighbor carrying a firearm...would he also be one of those paranoid militant types who has a fire extinguisher close by? Ill bet you are one of those anti-fire extinguisher types. Do you know how many people are killed every year by them? LOTS! In fact, we had an example on this news group where a deadly red fire extinguisher turned on its owner and committed mayhem and carnage that would may you puke. Ban Assault Fire Extinguisher! Limited them to less than 10 lbs! If they have special nozzles, or hangers, they can only be used for nefarious purposes and should be registered or banned. Its for the Children! My neighbor's situation is ****. His beer budget alone could be traded for 3 or 4 rungs on the ladder of life. If he has any fire extinguishers you can bet that they're rusty, risky, and up to no good. He seeds the roadsides with his empty cans, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's tossed a fire extinguisher out the window by mistake. Please warn your children - beware of red canisters and flaming paper bags. Me, I have guns, fire extinguishers, and a whole bunch of limb-threatening power tools. Just the same, I don't (and I know you're gonna' find this part weird) feel the need to carry a skilsaw around in anticipation of coming across a 2X4 that's too long. My guess is that people who do feel the urge to carry a skilsaw would find that most 2X4's are either already too long or might even be growing. If you doubt that theory, then conduct a study of road-sign ventilation techniques and get back to us with the results. Wayne |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where
violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about prepared to dispense violence in self-defense." If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination to do what you can to change it. Ed Huntress So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of having good tires? That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is evidence of a spiritual failure. Ed Huntress I haven't seen that quote in context. On the face of it, though, I don't think that Will was talking about spiritual failure of any sort. It was a simple statement of fact. I hope that you weren't implying any sort of spiritual shortcomings among those who feel that going armed is the solution. The real spiritual failure is that the society has failed to inculcate - through moral education, fear of punishment, or whatever - in a significant portion of our population a respect for others. I hold human life sacred - it is our greatest gift. But then, I'm a black and white kind of guy. Once someone crosses the line and attempts to do me serious harm, their life in my value system becomes absolutely worthless. I've never had to shoot anyone. I hope I never will. If I do, I'm sure that I will have nightmares about it afterward. Those I can't control. But would I feel less moral? No. My father used to say about the Quakers that he admired their philosophy, but that it was a good thing that they had the Scots/Irish between them and the Indians. No one ever said that our society was successful. It is, however, the best we've found yet. John Martin |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:41:45 +1100, "A.Gent" wrote: King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern? I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs going are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the cab. Should I have shot him? Did you have reasonable cause to believe that your life was in danger? If not..of course not. Hehehe Post in haste, repent at leisure. Of course not. Bad example on my part. Maybe if I really was as "cranky" as my munged return addy suggests (I'm not), then I might've shot him. Geez - I wasn't happy. Where are these "wrong places"? Redfern is a good start. The "Block" sounds like a dangerous place to be after dark. Kings Cross has always been a exciting place.... As a student I walked through Redfern (railway stn to the uni) every day for 3 years. A little later, 2 nights a week for two years. No problems. I *could've* entered into some situations (usually with drunken antagonists), stirred up trouble and been in deep manure - but I chose to walk to uni instead. The block is as bad as you make it. Incidents of violence and intimidation occur, but the vast majority are directed at family members. (Lemme rephrase - "within the same family.") Random acts of violence only seem so prevalent because they are replayed over and over again until it seems that they happen all the time. Cops are in danger in some area of the block at some times. They *are* packing. Doesn't help against the drunken tactics employed against them. ====== King's Cross? Much cleaned up and gentrified since the days of my youth. A lot of the sleaze has moved to the 'burbs, though prostitution and drugs still abound. Certainly not dangerous to walk around. As I said earlier, I drove cabs midnight-to-dawn around the Cross and never felt the need to pack heat (as they say). Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref the recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!) Heroin addicts tend to make assault a habit as well... Of course. I cannot deny their existence. Discretion and sensible habits can (and do) minimise your own personal risk exposure (without resorting to carrying arsenals). Shrug. You can't reduce all your risks to zero, and you shouldn't reduce a risk by introducing a complicating factor which exacerbates it (packin' heat, that is.) If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled to your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place." So you are saying that one can indeed be in danger in Sydney? Lets replace those $100 bills with expensive cameras and do the same shall we? Been there, done that. Used to be nuts about photography (still am, actually). Never been mugged for them. Am I going to sling five Nikons around my neck and go prancing through Cabramatta after midnight? No. I'm not a bloody idiot! (despite protestations...) Not going to play chicken with a Mack truck either. Is Sydney a war zone where you need to pack heat in order to be safe? Shrug. Whadd'ya reckon? Interesting set of strawmen you fabricate. Is there some reason you felt the need to spin and divert? Fair go, Gunner. That's pretty rich coming from Mr "I've-read-it-on-the-net-therefore-its-true" Gunner. Jeff. (still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.) Good for you. What makes you think anyone with a gun, or a fire extinguisher is paranoid? Ummmm... (?) Did I say that? I've got a fire extinguisher and a jack and a spare tyre. Never felt the need to threaten ayone with them (yet). Shrug from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paranoia : "...In its mild form paranoia may consist in the well-marked crotchetiness exhibited in persons commonly called "cranks." " Your fan club (bless 'em) might not see the connection... Some will, however. Cheers for now, Gunner. Sleep well... ....though how you can with one eye open, I don't know. Jeff |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message ... The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin. Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that? You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be used. My personal total over 5 decades (to date): Flat tyres, necessitating spare and jack: about 20-30 (estimate) Personal attacks, necessitating pistol: none (exact figure) Hmmmm... Instances of sky falling on head, necessitating steel umbrella: none (exact figure) So - logically, I should be carrying a steel umbrella at all times, just in case the sky falls. With luck, I won't need it. Shrug Jeff. |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message ... I like your analogy of the spare tire and jack. Hopefully we'll never need it but it's there if and when you do. Poor analogy, unless you live in downtown Hell. I've needed a spare tyre and a jack *plenty* of times. I've never *needed* a pistol. ....and I don't feel threatened because the loudmouth aggressive adolescents cruising down main street have a spare tyre and a jack in the boot of their car. But if they had a pistol each? ...If everyone was required to own and carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen to the crime rate? Shootouts on main street every lunchtime. Insults settled with lead and cordite. Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights. Just like Dodge City - 1835. Cooooooooool! Jeff. |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
A.Gent wrote:
"Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message ... I like your analogy of the spare tire and jack. Hopefully we'll never need it but it's there if and when you do. Poor analogy, unless you live in downtown Hell. I've needed a spare tyre and a jack *plenty* of times. I've never *needed* a pistol. ...and I don't feel threatened because the loudmouth aggressive adolescents cruising down main street have a spare tyre and a jack in the boot of their car. But if they had a pistol each? ...If everyone was required to own and carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen to the crime rate? Shootouts on main street every lunchtime. Insults settled with lead and cordite. Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights. Just like Dodge City - 1835. Cooooooooool! Jeff. Which has been the result in exactly how many of the, now 46, US states that have liberalized Concealed Carry laws? Just curious, you understand. And, no, I own no guns and don't carry. |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"John Husvar" wrote in message ... A.Gent wrote: "Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message ... ...If everyone was required to own and carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen to the crime rate? Shootouts on main street every lunchtime. Insults settled with lead and cordite. Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights. Just like Dodge City - 1835. Cooooooooool! Jeff. Which has been the result in exactly how many of the, now 46, US states that have liberalized Concealed Carry laws? Just curious, you understand. And, no, I own no guns and don't carry. Hang on a sec'! Quote from above post with my emphasis: ...If EVERYONE was REQUIRED to own and carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen to the crime rate? "Everyone" was "required" Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world. Which US states require this? Jeff |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
In article , A.Gent says...
"Everyone" was "required" Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world. Which US states require this? Umm. Switzerland. Oh I forgot, there's a difference between US states and Switzerland. No crime, there.... Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
A.Gent wrote:
"John Husvar" wrote in message ... A.Gent wrote: "Lane" lane_nospam@copperaccents_dot_com wrote in message ... ...If everyone was required to own and carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen to the crime rate? Shootouts on main street every lunchtime. Insults settled with lead and cordite. Accidents "evened-up" with gunfights. Just like Dodge City - 1835. Cooooooooool! Jeff. Which has been the result in exactly how many of the, now 46, US states that have liberalized Concealed Carry laws? Just curious, you understand. And, no, I own no guns and don't carry. Hang on a sec'! Quote from above post with my emphasis: ...If EVERYONE was REQUIRED to own and carry a gun, take a class, qualify with it; what do you think would happen to the crime rate? "Everyone" was "required" Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world. Which US states require this? None. You are correct. My mistake. But it does not follow that people being armed results in increased violence. It has worked both ways historically. Presently, it seems to be reducing violence in the USA. I would favor and support such a requirement, however, so long as "everyone" was defined as every legal adult not convicted of a felony crime of violence, of no demonstrable mental disability, and not religiously or ethically scrupulous of carrying weapons. But then I also would favor the return of the concept of Outlawry, where a person declared an Outlaw after due process, having demonstrated unwillingness to accept the authority of law, also forfeits its protection. I make no claim to being civilized, a term whose root meant simply citified or a city dweller. Civilization has no claim to moral superiority. |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"John Husvar" wrote in message ... But it does not follow that people being armed results in increased violence. It has worked both ways historically. Presently, it seems to be reducing violence in the USA. Don't get me wrong. I don't for a second suggest that the U.S. should seek to restrict gun ownership. That horse has well and truly bolted. Thre may well be a valid argument for arming more U.S. citizens - but I'm not familiar with the U.S. situation. (Unless TV counts!) I would favor and support such a requirement, however, so long as "everyone" was defined as every legal adult not convicted of a felony crime of violence, of no demonstrable mental disability, and not religiously or ethically scrupulous of carrying weapons. I wouldn't, because I simply don't trust *everyone* (minus your listed exceptions) to exhibit sufficient presence of mind to avoid (or not *cause*) unnecessary bloodshed. IOW, that man is angry, nay FURIOUS, but unarmed. He may do a fair measure of damage. -or- That man is furious and armed. BANG Dead people. But then I also would favor the return of the concept of Outlawry, where a person declared an Outlaw after due process, having demonstrated unwillingness to accept the authority of law, also forfeits its protection. Thats a dangerously slippery slope. I don't favour pampering criminals, but: That man is stealing my car therefore I can shoot him. Is that an acceptable outcome of "Outlawry"? I make no claim to being civilized, a term whose root meant simply citified or a city dweller. Civilization has no claim to moral superiority. Moral? Maybe not. But in every other sense superior. Without civilisation, I'd have no lathe, no mill, no metal and no time to play with them. EEurgghhhhh. Jeff |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"jim rozen" wrote in message ... In article , A.Gent says... "Everyone" was "required" Like some insane Heinlein-esque fantasy world. Which US states require this? Umm. Switzerland. Oh I forgot, there's a difference between US states and Switzerland. No crime, there.... Jim I don't believe the Swiss pack heat, concealed, on the streets, the buses and in the bars. I *could* be wrong. Jeff |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:34:24 GMT, Gunner wrote:
Actually last year my gross was about $26k. With the 65k mileage. Since the big layoffs in 2001, I am now an independent machine tool repair technician. This means I work on machines in machine shops. If there are no machine shops (or few of them) then I have no work. No work =no money. no money= no mortgage payment=out on the street. So perhaps its best that I stay where there are machine shops, no? Hard to find enough machine shops in Podunk Falls to make a living fixing their machines/phone systems/plant maint. Im also 50 yrs old, with an ailing wife, no savings (well, I have $100 in my pocket for emergencies) and a home that will be paid off in about 12 months, however it happens to be in a town that is dying, and selling it would result in a net loss. As Dr Phil would say, "How's that workin' for ya?" It is obvious that you've made some bad choices, and had some bad breaks, but continuing to stay where you are, playing a losing game, isn't really smart. Perhaps it is time to make other choices. My neighbor worked as a mechanic for Eastern Airlines until they went bankrupt. He started a business restringing tennis rackets in his garage. Today he repairs and refurbishes all sorts of sports equipment, and makes a much better living than he did while working for Eastern. He no longer cares about the health of the airline industry. Another of his co-workers at Eastern, a baggage handler, started a home painting business, and also is doing much better than when he worked for Eastern. A new neighbor is a landscaper. Judging by the several nice cars and trucks, and the big boat he keeps in his back yard, I suspect he is doing much better than $26,000 a year gross too. The local QuikTrip always has a sign in the window saying that store managers make an average of $52,280 per year, and they're hiring. The point of all this is that you don't have to be stuck. There are better choices out there than the ones you've made. Choices that will bring you more money, health insurance coverage, and freedom from worries about scratching out a living in a declining industry located in undesirable parts of cities. Gary |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message
... On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:25:06 GMT, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . When you talk about really dangerous places, I have to ask myself, why would anyone live there on purpose? Some people are stuck there to some degree. They need ways to deal with it, and carrying a gun is one way. But there is no reason in the world for most of us to live there. Life is too short, and it can be difficult enough as it is. Why make it worse by walking through South-Central L.A., unless you want to get some practice with your gun? Ed Huntress Because a hell of a lot of people have to live there? Yeah, but YOU don't. That's the point. Ed Huntress But I have to work there..and thats the point. And you ignore the poor *******s that do have to live there who are unable to protect themselves. Firstly, no, you don't have to work there. California's metalworking manufacturing is a shadow of its former self. In most of the country, metalworking manufacturing in dangerous cores of old cities is virtually gone. You should see how it's done in Michigan, Illinois, or Wisconsin. Secondly, the poor *******s that are stuck there have a good reason, perhaps, to carry guns to defend themselves. They live in a failed subculture of society. That's not, I hope, where we're headed overall. Nor is it a place where you have to live or work. -- Ed Huntress (remove "3" from email address for email reply) |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"Gunner" wrote in message
... If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination to do what you can to change it. Ed Huntress So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of having good tires? That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is evidence of a spiritual failure. Ed Huntress The inability to follow the logic of "in case **** happens" is either a blind spot on your part, or an intentional attempt at spin. No, it's a comment upon what you've accepted as a way of life, because you've accepted the social failure that Will was talking about. Where the **** did you get "comparing human lives to tires" out of that? Hmm. Maybe it was the words? Or were you thinking about something else, and just typed those words by accident? You carry a jack in case you blow out a tire. You carry a weapon in case someone decides to attack you. With luck, neither will ever be used. Putting the two into the same paragraph tells us your point of view, which is one that sees each as an analogy of the other. That's the point. Blown tire, blown-out brains...all the same thing, eh? -- Ed Huntress (remove "3" from email address for email reply) |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:35:32 GMT, Gunner wrote:
But I have to work there..and thats the point. No, you *choose* to work there. And by your own admission, you're making less than poverty level doing it. Wise up. Gary |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
"JMartin957" wrote in message
... As George Will once said, "...no society can be called successful where violence is so prevalent and random that lawful citizens must go about prepared to dispense violence in self-defense." If you've given up on the idea of a successful society, or if you like things the way they are, then making self-defense with a gun an acceptable and unremarkable part of your life is a reasonable response. If you haven't given up, it's something you do with great distaste and with a determination to do what you can to change it. Ed Huntress So having a spare tire and a jack in your car means that you dispair of having good tires? That's what Will was talking about. Comparing human lives to tires is evidence of a spiritual failure. Ed Huntress I haven't seen that quote in context. On the face of it, though, I don't think that Will was talking about spiritual failure of any sort. It was a simple statement of fact. I hope that you weren't implying any sort of spiritual shortcomings among those who feel that going armed is the solution. Not at all. It's the spirit of the society itself. If a need to carry concealed handguns is considered a normal and acceptable part of social existence, then the society has an attitude problem. It lacks the spirit that the ancient Greeks identified so well as the necessary condition for a civil society, particularly for a democratic one, to thrive. The real spiritual failure is that the society has failed to inculcate - through moral education, fear of punishment, or whatever - in a significant portion of our population a respect for others. That's a good issue. Lack of that sense of civic responsibility, the social responsibilities we have to each other, is a result of the giving-up that I was talking about. Ed Huntress |
firearms - modern labor saving devices.
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firearms - modern labor saving devices.
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:27:58 +1100, "A.Gent"
wrote: "Gunner" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:41:45 +1100, "A.Gent" wrote: King's Cross? Oxford Street? Cabramatta? Redfern? I've driven cabs for a living, and on the midnight-to-dawn shift the only jobs going are 'round there. Worst violence I suffered was a drunk puking in the back of the cab. Should I have shot him? Did you have reasonable cause to believe that your life was in danger? If not..of course not. Hehehe Post in haste, repent at leisure. Of course not. Bad example on my part. Maybe if I really was as "cranky" as my munged return addy suggests (I'm not), then I might've shot him. Geez - I wasn't happy. Chuckle..I drove a cab for a while once upon a time..its always grim when your fare is a couple drunk chicks..and the first one gets the heaves..which sets the other one off as well...double your pleasure..double your fun... You learn where the car washes are really fast. Where are these "wrong places"? Redfern is a good start. The "Block" sounds like a dangerous place to be after dark. Kings Cross has always been a exciting place.... As a student I walked through Redfern (railway stn to the uni) every day for 3 years. A little later, 2 nights a week for two years. No problems. I *could've* entered into some situations (usually with drunken antagonists), stirred up trouble and been in deep manure - but I chose to walk to uni instead. How long ago? The block is as bad as you make it. Incidents of violence and intimidation occur, but the vast majority are directed at family members. (Lemme rephrase - "within the same family.") Random acts of violence only seem so prevalent because they are replayed over and over again until it seems that they happen all the time. Cops are in danger in some area of the block at some times. They *are* packing. Doesn't help against the drunken tactics employed against them. Does it keep them alive? Thats the name of the game... ====== King's Cross? Much cleaned up and gentrified since the days of my youth. A lot of the sleaze has moved to the 'burbs, though prostitution and drugs still abound. Certainly not dangerous to walk around. As I said earlier, I drove cabs midnight-to-dawn around the Cross and never felt the need to pack heat (as they say). Please, tell me you don't believe the nonsense they write in the tabloids? (Ref the recent "riots" in Redfern. pshaaww!) Heroin addicts tend to make assault a habit as well... Of course. I cannot deny their existence. Discretion and sensible habits can (and do) minimise your own personal risk exposure (without resorting to carrying arsenals). Define discretion and sensible habits thankyouveddyveddymuch. I simply go where I wish, when I wish, with no fear. Shrug. Id just as soon not wander through the front yard of the Bloods or Crips, but if I make a wrong turn, I dont sweat it. Shrug. Shrug. You can't reduce all your risks to zero, and you shouldn't reduce a risk by introducing a complicating factor which exacerbates it (packin' heat, that is.) You are laboring under a false pretense..that having a concealed weapon exacerbates something. How can it? If its concealed, no one knows you have it. They have no reason to push or play drunken macho games. Its only used as the final response to a bad situation. If you're dopey enough to walk through some places with $100 dollar bills stapled to your coat, then yes, indeed: "...the world can and is a very dangerous place." So you are saying that one can indeed be in danger in Sydney? Lets replace those $100 bills with expensive cameras and do the same shall we? Been there, done that. Used to be nuts about photography (still am, actually). Never been mugged for them. Had a chap on a Lambreta try it once on Tudo Street. He had an accident. Am I going to sling five Nikons around my neck and go prancing through Cabramatta after midnight? No. Why not? Dont enjoy night photography or exciting local sceanery? I'm not a bloody idiot! (despite protestations...) So you are saying that you are afraid to go about your lawful business? Not going to play chicken with a Mack truck either. Playing chicken with a Mack is not lawful business. Is Sydney a war zone where you need to pack heat in order to be safe? Shrug. Whadd'ya reckon? Seems, as I indicated, parts of it are unsafe for the unarmed. Ive never said it was a war zone, but if you are afraid to go about your lawful business..its sounds like it has some scary places. Interesting set of strawmen you fabricate. Is there some reason you felt the need to spin and divert? Fair go, Gunner. That's pretty rich coming from Mr "I've-read-it-on-the-net-therefore-its-true" Gunner. Thats pretty rich coming from someone afraid to go about their lawful business. Jeff. (still surviving, gunless and swordless, and not paranoid, in Sydney.) Good for you. What makes you think anyone with a gun, or a fire extinguisher is paranoid? Ummmm... (?) Did I say that? Yup. I've got a fire extinguisher and a jack and a spare tyre. Never felt the need to threaten ayone with them (yet). So you consider a gun is something to be used to threaten with? Its good you didnt have one as a taxi driver, if your self control is so poor. Shrug from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paranoia : "...In its mild form paranoia may consist in the well-marked crotchetiness exhibited in persons commonly called "cranks." " I notice the term "may" at the beginning of the sentence. Frued also indicated that sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar. Your fan club (bless 'em) might not see the connection... Im sure they do, but most will consider it improper. Some will, however. Some folks believe that Elvis is running a stop and rob in Fresno. Cheers for now, Gunner. Sleep well... ...though how you can with one eye open, I don't know. Jeff I sleep very soundly when in safe and secure surrounds. When Im in less safe surrounds..the little night watchman tucked in my backbrain keeps track of things and wakes me as needed. Ask any old combat vet about their night watchman. Gunner The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed. " Lazarus Long |
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