Clark is correct OT again, by the way Just ignore if you don't want to read it
"Garlicdude" wrote in message
... Aw, quit your whining! In NJ we just spent $1.2 Billion to build a light rail system between Trenton and Camden. Two cities that NO ONE wants to go to, and neither of which have any jobs! When it comes to wasting money you guys are going to have to get up really early to beat us! Take a look at who owns the developable property along the route. That happens to be a relatively low-value area. If you can tie into major-city mass transit with a local route, you can really boost real estate values. Expect a flurry of condos, apartment complexes, and high-density, oversized houses to crop up there. Here in Metuchen, at least 1/4 of our home values are based on the fact that we live on a quick, efficient rail route to Manhatten. And that's a low estimate, in my view. As the man said, follow the money. Ed Huntress |
Clark is correct
"Pierre Bongo" wrote in message
news:qsLXb.39590$jk2.87333@attbi_s53... The purpose of the original post was not to argue over WHY home-schooled kids do markedly better on standardized academic tests, but rather to refute with this statistical fact the ignorant attempt at slandering home-schooling as some sort of fringe cult whose students are profoundly inferior performers. The statistics DO clearly show - for whatever reason - that this ignorant prejudice is clearly false. Well, answering false information with more false (or selectively cooked) information is not my idea of a successful argument, Pierre. Anyone trained in stats and research methodology can see it, and it paints an ugly picture. As any of the legitimate studies point out (including the one I pointed to), the studies are weighted down with sampling bias from the very beginning. There is no way to compare the performance of homeschooled kids versus non-homeschooled. Ed Huntress |
Clark is correct
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:43:06 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On 14 Feb 2004 15:36:44 -0800, jim rozen wrote: In article , Ed Huntress says... But they aren't the ones arguing the case, Gunner. Read your blogs. They're full of bitter, resentful malcontents who hate public schooling They don't hate public schooling. They just hate paying for it. Jim They just hate paying for shoddy and worthless goods. Most of those good folks have complained and bitched for years about the declining quality of education coupled to rising costs. This is the reason the voucher systems came into play along with home schooling. The folks got tired of fighting the various NEA clones and entrenched school adminisitrations who believe tenure and Taj Mahal edifices are more important than a quality education. Can you honestly say schools today are better than those you went to? Well, I can certainly say that the public high school from which I graduated is no worse today than it was when I graduated. And people were talking about how miserable it was back then, too, because we were only somewhere in the top twenty nationally for having the graduates also graduate from college, and go on to higher degrees. They were talking about how the high school district in which I now live was completely inadequate back when Steve Jobs and "the Woz" graduated from it. You can call it failure if you wish, but I think we need more of it. Al Moore |
Clark is correct
"Bray Haven" wrote in message
... And a lot of home-schooling advocates aren't above using the statistics to draw a conclusion that's opposite of the truth. It's hard to believe that all of the people who quote these stats are so cavalier about them, or so ignorant of statistical methods that *all* of them fail to see the errors. Ed Huntress Once again, I find my personal experince to conflict with your statistics. Not that they are wrong :o). Where I live, most home schoolers do so because of a totally ineffective local public school system which graduates high numbers of funtional illiterates. Well, individual experiences *will* conflict with statistics, Greg. Individual experiences are anecdotal. The range of possibilities is broad. So anecdotes disagree with statistics more often than not. But everyone has anecdotes. Good statistics are harder to come by. So I try to look at both, because the statistics don't tell us about situations like the one you're describing, and I'm sure there are plenty of positive anecdotes about homeschooling. I would never suggest that we make judgments based solely on statistics. But making them solely on anecdotes is even worse. Again, I'm not opposed to homeschooling. What I'm opposed to is glorifying it with selective statistics, or relying solely on individual anecdotes. I prefer to get a broad picture, one as accurate as I can find, and to combine it with individual experiences. I don't see how you can understand big social issues like this without both. Ed Huntress |
Clark is correct
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:22:47 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "Robert Sturgeon" wrote in message .. . The evidence is, it wasn't happening until we set up public education. The numbers I've seen (and no, I'm not going to look them up) indicate that the literacy rate among whites was over 90% prior to the civil war. That can't be compared to today's literacy rate due the changing population covered, but even among the whites the figure isn't better after over 100 years of public education. Well, I did look it up, and here are the figures for whites over 14 years of age. Based on the same way of measuring illiteracy, with a toughening standard over time, it was 11.5% in 1870 and 0.4% in 1979, when the Census Bureau stopped using the old method of self-reporting. And "literacy" in 1870 meant being able to read and write a simple sentence. ("120 Years of American Education: A Statistical Portrait", Edited by Tom Snyder, National Center for Education Statistics, 1993). The standards used today are based on what is called "functional literacy," and it's a much tougher test, which gets tougher as the society becomes more complex and the definition of "functional" becomes correspondingly tougher. Public education didn't work. It worked like a charm. Nothing in history ever elevated literacy and numeracy rates faster or better among a general population. Ever. Well, it worked, after a fashion, until about 1965-70. Then the teachers' unions gained power and public education went into the crapper. Have you bothered to check out the comparative knowledge levels of children in 1965 versus today, Robert? If not, you're in for a surprise. snipped... He Kids today know a lot more then when I was a teenager in 1965!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike |
Clark is correct
"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
... Well, it worked, after a fashion, until about 1965-70. Then the teachers' unions gained power and public education went into the crapper. Have you bothered to check out the comparative knowledge levels of children in 1965 versus today, Robert? If not, you're in for a surprise. snipped... He Kids today know a lot more then when I was a teenager in 1965!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike Amen. In '65, I was 17. My son is now 16. I would NOT want to have to compete with this kid in math, in writing, in history...and most especially, in chemistry. g And I graduated from a public high school that was purported to be one of the best in the country. Ed Huntress |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
On 15 Feb 2004 08:53:56 -0800, jim rozen
wrote: In article , Gunner says... Jim...those who home school or use vouchers pay the same amount of taxes nonetheless. Right - but they get that tax money right back, as a voucher. This is basically a tax rebate for them. I would say sure, let them have vouchers. They pay a thousand dollars in school tax right now, they can have a five hundred dollar voucher if they pay fifteen hundred! If they were serious about improving education then would agree to that. The more vouchers, the fewer kids in public schools with the same number of teachers. Those that send their kids to public school get their money back in the form of (inferior) public school education. The fewer kids in public school the better. Same with those who sent their kids to private schools. Home schoolers and voucher proponents have not asked that the tax burden be lessened , though most would like that. Why should they pay taxes utilized for substandard inferior public education and still have to shell out additional moneys for home schooling or private school? Vouchers are simply the first step in eliminating public education. It won't get better when they're installed - only worse. The analogy might be to car insurance: sure I'd like to be able to take the money I spend on that and keep it myself. But if everyone were allowed to opt out of the system - and that is *exactly* what vouchers are, an 'opt out' clause - then it would stop working in short order. Jim..the money ALL goes to education. Its not rebated and spendable on TV sets and boats. Vouchers simply allow you to decide which education vendor gets your money. Just out of curiosity, how do folks with *no* children make out in a proposed voucher system? Do they get a voucher good for some portion of a brand new car or something? g Jim Ah no...they still have to pay the taxes like everyone else does, and has done so for many years. Like I have to do, even though I have no kids in school. Gunner "To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas |
Home schooling (was...)
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:28:20 GMT, wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:01:25 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 00:35:11 GMT, wrote: Exactly. I live in the boonies, and there are quite a few home-schooled kids in the area. Any talk of them doing better as a group than public-school kids is just nuts. And it's easy to see why if you look at the reasons many of the boonie parents don't send their youngns' to school - 1. won't, or can't afford to drive them 15 miles one-way twice a day to meet the bus. 2. don't want them to associate with non-fundies....ever. 3. didn't go to school themselves, so don't see the need. sigh Given the circumstances and attitudes, overall success rates are bound to be pitiful. When generalizing about groups, I don't see how statistics can be meaningful considering how many home-schooled kids live below the radar. In our county there probably isn't a practical way for officials to know that the kids *exist*, must less how well they're schooled. Wayne I see a post full of assumptions. Where are the test scores of those children? I don't know.... same place as the soap and water? If they aren't bathed, then it isn't likely that they're getting much of an education. If the parents aren't too bright, it's not likely that they're going to be teaching much. If kids aren't socialized, it's unlikely that they're well adjusted. If officials don't have a way to know that home-schooled kids live in their district, it's unlikely that the kids have been tested. If the parents meet visitors at the gate with a rifle, it's unlikely they'd agree to have their kids tested. But hey, those are all just assumptions, and I'm sure that you're about to tell me that a guy with a two dozen beer a day habit *could* be giving math lessons in his shack, and his kids are *probably* better off than if they'd gone to gasp public school. \ Once again all I see are assumptions and some generic claims. When you can provide some data, Id be happy to look it over, but until then, its noted as your opinion. My posts included anecdotes based on personal observations and discussion with local home-schoolers. I note that you're quite happy to use anecdotes elsewhere in the discussion to support your own position. Besides, where would you expect anyone to get statistics for people who go out of their way to avoid being included in statistics? Most of these people refused to participate in the census, much less in education studies. BTW, who are you and what did you do with that other gunner who's so fond of the "walks like a duck...." homily? Wayne I only use it as needed. I dont use a hammer to cut grooves in inconel. Gunner What you mean is, when you see something obvious and are questioned about your observations, you're happy to fall back on a homily. But when someone else comments on the obvious, you insist on "research", which you seem to think is copying and pasting URLs no matter which quack sites they link to. Wayne Sorry. You are once again wrong. Looks like its habitual with you. Bummer Gunner "To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas |
Clark is correct
On 14 Feb 2004 22:19:15 GMT, (Bray Haven) brought
forth from the murky depths: Test score data from states requiring testing or from homeschooling associations, while not totally representative, suggest that tested homeschooled children are above average (Lines 2001). According to two Time reporters (Cloud and Morse 2001), "the average SAT score for home schoolers in 2000 was 1100, compared with 1019 for the general population." Well, I'm no teacher and have no children (to speak of) but I have observed So, you're relegated to creating smart asses? (sorry, couldn't resist) -- Impeach 'em ALL! ---------------------------------------------------- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming |
Home schooling (was...)
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:46:29 GMT, Gunner
wrote: Sorry. You are once again wrong. Looks like its habitual with you. Bummer Yeah, like when I told you that the deer weren't hiding. snorf Wayne |
Home schooling (was...)
I have a first grade daughter who is attending public school. She is
doing well but is board out of her skull. The class is taught to the lowest 1/3 of the students, who for the most part are at that level because of the home environment. My wife volunteers two time a week, working in the class, so she has first hand knowledge of what is going on. We are considering home school for shear efficiency. She can get a focused education in three hours at home and have time for her other activities. Now she comes home exhausted and really has to push to get her sports, chores, home work and music lesson done; plus, a first grader really needs time just to play. That extra four hours would be gold as it is everything, but school, slips. I don't think home school is for every family or child but until the public school gets its act together it is a viable option to parent who want the best for their kids. My wife put her engineering career on hold to raise our kids. This cut our monetary income in half but with the incrase in quality of life, personal and family happiness we feel this is quit a bargain. BTW my doughter played the piano at her school talent show on Thursday and amazed the audience. I knew she was good but the people around me were literally open mouthed. It was very hard not to elbow the people beside me and say that my daughter. One Proud Dad. Dan C Dan Caster wrote: I don't know too much about home schooling, but my niece lives in Alaska and is home schooling her daughter. My sister ( her mother ) told me that in Alaska home schooled children have to take tests and pass to be home schooled. Dan wrote in message When generalizing about groups, I don't see how statistics can be meaningful considering how many home-schooled kids live below the radar. In our county there probably isn't a practical way for officials to know that the kids *exist*, must less how well they're schooled. Wayne |
Home schooling (was...)
On 15 Feb 2004 08:24:59 -0800, (Dan Caster) wrote:
I don't know too much about home schooling, but my niece lives in Alaska and is home schooling her daughter. My sister ( her mother ) told me that in Alaska home schooled children have to take tests and pass to be home schooled. That's probably true of most counties, perhaps even ours. But having rules and enforcing them are two different things. Here's an example http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101277,00.html A 40lb 19 year-old, church friends who claim the parents aren't responsible, and officials powerless to prevent the problem even though they were under the microscope owing to previous foul-ups. (remarkable improvements in their conditions now that they're being fed properly) When stuff like this can happen, you gotta' know that a lot of routine things are being neglected. In a perfect world, the words "home schooling" wouldn't become a euphemism for "no schooling". Then again, in a perfect world you'd have to demonstrate some proficiency in child rearing before...well, you know what. I don't have cites to prove that the learn-as-you-go method has problems. But there might be a parallel to society's well-proven need to license fishermen. Hopefully Gunner will "research" this for us. :-) Wayne |
Home schooling (was...)
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:45:35 GMT, Dan Clingman
wrote: I have a first grade daughter who is attending public school. She is doing well but is board out of her skull. The class is taught to the lowest 1/3 of the students, who for the most part are at that level because of the home environment. My wife volunteers two time a week, working in the class, so she has first hand knowledge of what is going on. We are considering home school for shear efficiency. She can get a focused education in three hours at home and have time for her other activities. Now she comes home exhausted and really has to push to get her sports, chores, home work and music lesson done; plus, a first grader really needs time just to play. That extra four hours would be gold as it is everything, but school, slips. I don't think home school is for every family or child but until the public school gets its act together it is a viable option to parent who want the best for their kids. My wife put her engineering career on hold to raise our kids. This cut our monetary income in half but with the incrase in quality of life, personal and family happiness we feel this is quit a bargain. BTW my doughter played the piano at her school talent show on Thursday and amazed the audience. I knew she was good but the people around me were literally open mouthed. It was very hard not to elbow the people beside me and say that my daughter. One Proud Dad. Dan C Congratulations. My bet is that if you decide to do the home school thing, it will be successful. Sounds like you have the resources, which was the missing element in the local situations I mentioned. Wayne PS Don't forget to teach her not to trust spell-checking software. ;-) |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
"Richard Johnson" wrote in message ...
By the way, I am a Credentialed Teacher in Industrial and Machine related Arts for grades 19 and 20 now and was a Certified IA back then working with the Teachers to develop and record the core course material. I think your points may be sound, as you teach those grades. I assume you have applied for a pay cut. Your students would be far better off at home. "Arts" is that darn spit "liberal" stuff anyway and all the kids really need is guns and bible study (so they know who to shoot) anyway. -- Cliff |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
Everyone pays taxes that go to schools whether they have children or
not. My thoughts are that you should get a vocher if you have children and do not send them to public school. I don't care if you home school them or send them to private school. If you have kids and are not tsending them to the public schools, you are saving the government money. Now I don't advocate having the vochers for as much as it costs to have a kid in school. Some MBA could figure out the optimum amount so that the public schools save the most money. So it might be 40% of the cost of having a kid go to public school. Or another approach would be the one Alaska takes. They have a home school education department. They help with things as books, and also arrange for extra things as organizing home school plays and music groups. So the kids develop social skills too. Of course that is only for home schools, not private schools. I like to think my plan would be a win for almost everyone. The public schools would end up with more money per child, the parents with more choice and more money if they were going to home school or send their kid to private school. The losers are the teachers union, and the school administrators. Dan jim rozen wrote in message Seems like the folks who push home schooling also invariably push vouchers. I would take the homeschool types a great deal more seriously if they said, 'look, we're more than happy to contribute to the public education, but we feel like we want to do better for our kids ourselves.' But when homeschoolers immediately jump on the voucher bandwagon then it spoils the effect - basically it seems like all they want to do is shirk paying taxes. And if everyone is allowed to opt-out of school taxes, then we get back to your original comment: in that case, everyone *will* be required to home-school. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Clark is correct
How likely are they to be Asian? They are the higher performing kids.
Dan "Ed Huntress" wrote in message news:GHGXb.9516 and that they were 15% more likely to be white than black or hispanic. Those are all factors that correlate with higher performance for non-homeschooled kids, too. Aren't you surprised? g? Ed Huntress |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
In article , Gunner says...
Jim..the money ALL goes to education. Its not rebated and spendable on TV sets and boats. Vouchers simply allow you to decide which education vendor gets your money. Right, but all the problem kids, the expensive ones, will still stay in public school - because no private school can afford to educate them. But there won't *be* any public schools after vouchers are installed, right - because they're so bad nobody will send their kids there. So where do the trouble kids go? The ones that are developmentally disabled or otherwise more expensive to educate? Are you in favor of making entrance into the private schools guaranteed, so that any kid can go wherever they want? Sounds to me like that's a prescription for disaster - you've just dragged the private schools down to public school level. Also, you've just entangled the government into the affairs of the private (in some cases religious) schools. Example: the school my daughter was attending was private, and had no facilities that were ADA compliant. They didn't have to. But in the new voucher scheme, there *is* no public school, because it's been run out of town on a rail for being so terrible. So now kids are going to be knocking on the door of private schools, demanding to be let in. But some of them are in wheelchairs, etc. "Hey, this voucher says I can come here. You better make the classrooms ADA compliant." What do they say, 'nope' - the voucher is no good here? What makes you think that the new breed of schools are going to be any different (better) than the ones we have now? Sounds to me like the same problems are going to keep on cropping up. Why not fix the problem where it is now, rather than making new ones? Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Clark is correct OT again, by the way Just ignore if you don't want to read it
In article , Ed Huntress
says... Take a look at who owns the developable property along the route. That happens to be a relatively low-value area. If you can tie into major-city mass transit with a local route, you can really boost real estate values. Expect a flurry of condos, apartment complexes, and high-density, oversized houses to crop up there. Yep. Look what happened to Hoboken. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Clark is correct
Bray Haven wrote:
And a lot of home-schooling advocates aren't above using the statistics to draw a conclusion that's opposite of the truth. It's hard to believe that all of the people who quote these stats are so cavalier about them, or so ignorant of statistical methods that *all* of them fail to see the errors. Once again, I find my personal experince to conflict with your statistics. Not that they are wrong :o). Where I live, most home schoolers do so because of a totally ineffective local public school system which graduates high numbers of funtional illiterates. They also use many teaching aids available to them on the net & mail, so they don't neccesarily have to be a math whiz to supervize their kids in an algebra course. They also organize group classes and field trips to draw on the abilities of others and integrate social interaction into the education process. According to the Houston Chronicle, the Houston Independent School District has 2.7 administrators for every teacher. Teachers no longer teach, they jump through administrative hoops held by folks whose main function appears to be justifying their existence in the educational system by determining whether or not a syllabus is politically correct and places enough emphasis on the TASP tests. It's almost as bad in the lily white, affluent, suburbs - where being politically correct more important than being correct, teachers still can't teach unless their syllabus is approved by lebenty-leben administrators who couldn't teach a dog to eat meat on their best day, and skyrocketing taxes are used to build state-of-the-art athletic facilities instead of educating kids. My kids are grown. Homeschooling is not an option for any of my grandkids, all are in private schools and I'd cheerfully sell my saddle to keep them there. -- Tom Stovall, CJF Farrier & Blacksmith http://www.katyforge.com "That government governs best that governs least." -Thomas Jefferson |
Clark is correct
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:02:46 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: ,;"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message ... ,; ,; Well, it worked, after a fashion, until about ,; 1965-70. Then the teachers' unions gained power and public ,; education went into the crapper. ,; ,; Have you bothered to check out the comparative knowledge levels of ,;children ,; in 1965 versus today, Robert? If not, you're in for a surprise. ,; ,; snipped... ,; ,; He Kids today know a lot more then when I was a teenager in ,; 1965!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ,; ,; Mike ,; ,; ,;Amen. In '65, I was 17. My son is now 16. I would NOT want to have to ,;compete with this kid in math, in writing, in history...and most especially, ,;in chemistry. g Well today I got a phone call for some help with a chemistry problem from a son who has a Ph.D. in chemistry and works for a blue chip organization. This is not the first call and hopefully will not be the last but I still know chemistry that he has not learned yet. It reminds me of my research director's comment. "You are very good but you will never catch up with me because I am still learning." He was still learning but he was in his late 70s at the time. He was very good but he died in 1981 and I am still learning. Some day my son will still be learning and I will not be. I would like to see how your son would do on some of the geography exams I took back in the 30s. ,; ,;And I graduated from a public high school that was purported to be one of ,;the best in the country. ,; ,;Ed Huntress ,; |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:35:38 -0800, "Richard Johnson"
wrote: Damn, got to pay attention to what I type. The credential covers grades 13 and 14, (Jr College). 19 and 20, where did I come up with that?? Sorry. (At least I am self correcting!) Rich Perhaps because most are 19 and 20 year olds? I presumed that was your intention when I read the original post. It jumped into mind as I teach at a tech college part time. Got hoodwinked into it. Kinda just happened. Comes from knowing the wrong people. First a friend convinced me to give a couple specialized classes on PID control theory. I wasn't interested in more work, nor teaching. But decided a one time, short course would be okay. Sigh Then he and some other staff asked me to write a curriculum for modern DDC as used in building automation and energy management. Just do the curriculum, and spend some time bringing one of their instructors up to speed on what's actually being done and used currently. That's it. They'd not ask more. Yeah sure, now I'm teaching one day per week, 6 hours straight, on top of my regular job and don't even ask me how I got talked into that. I'm still trying to figure out just when I said "Yes", ... and why. Anyway, the largest age group in the class is 19-20 yr olds. Working on 2 yr tech degrees (AS). Tho there are a pretty fair number of older guys, and 2 gals. Who used to be in other jobs but are switching fields. Bob |
Clark is correct OT again, by the way Just ignore if you don't want to read it
"Garlicdude" wrote in message ... And then there's the VTA here in Silly Cone Valley. Forgot the actual figures, but it is something like $1.50 per rider paid in fairs, and costs $5.00 and change for the ride. Some folks voted to extend BART to San Jose with bond money. Now the rat ******* politicans want to use the bond money for operating expenses. I've consistantly voted no on any transportation money since they tricked me on raising the sales tax to widen the roads, but failed to mention that they would be car pool lanes. -- Regards, Steve Saling aka The Garlic Dude Gilroy, CA The Garlic Capital of The World http://www.pulsareng.com/ I've ridden the VTA in San Hose. Beautiful system, but the bus that ran virtually along side actually drops you off in front of the office buildings! The buses were running nearly full every time I got on. A few times on the light rail I was almost the only passenger. Our system charges $1.10 for the ride, but sucks $75 million a year in tax subsidies to cover the ACTUAL cost of operation! I'll bet that is a lot more than $5 a ride in real cost. Gary H. Lucas |
Home schooling (was...)
,; ,;What you mean is, when you see something obvious and are questioned ,;about your observations, you're happy to fall back on a homily. But ,;when someone else comments on the obvious, you insist on "research", ,;which you seem to think is copying and pasting URLs no matter which ,;quack sites they link to. ,; ,;Wayne ,; ,;Sorry. You are once again wrong. Looks like its habitual with you. ,;Bummer Couldn't you have snipped something so as to avoid repeating 81 lines of un-needed material? ,; ,;Gunner ,;"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. ,; To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, ,; merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas |
Clark is correct OT again, by the way Just ignore if you don't want to read it
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message et... "Garlicdude" wrote in message ... Aw, quit your whining! In NJ we just spent $1.2 Billion to build a light rail system between Trenton and Camden. Two cities that NO ONE wants to go to, and neither of which have any jobs! When it comes to wasting money you guys are going to have to get up really early to beat us! Take a look at who owns the developable property along the route. That happens to be a relatively low-value area. If you can tie into major-city mass transit with a local route, you can really boost real estate values. Expect a flurry of condos, apartment complexes, and high-density, oversized houses to crop up there. Here in Metuchen, at least 1/4 of our home values are based on the fact that we live on a quick, efficient rail route to Manhatten. And that's a low estimate, in my view. As the man said, follow the money. Ed Huntress Yeah, but at least Manhattan has high paying jobs! So you buy a Condo near the light rail station, where are you going to work to pay for it? Gary H. Lucas |
Home schooling (was...)
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:42:42 GMT, wrote:
,;On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:46:29 GMT, Gunner ,;wrote: ,; ,; ,; ,;Sorry. You are once again wrong. Looks like its habitual with you. ,;Bummer ,; ,;Yeah, like when I told you that the deer weren't hiding. snorf I appreciate the snipping but couldn't you have left enough to reveal the topic? ,; ,;Wayne |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
"Bob G" wrote in message ... On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:35:38 -0800, "Richard Johnson" wrote: Damn, got to pay attention to what I type. The credential covers grades 13 and 14, (Jr College). 19 and 20, where did I come up with that?? Sorry. (At least I am self correcting!) Rich Perhaps because most are 19 and 20 year olds? I presumed that was your intention when I read the original post. It jumped into mind as I teach at a tech college part time. Got hoodwinked into it. Kinda just happened. Comes from knowing the wrong people. First a friend convinced me to give a couple specialized classes on PID control theory. I wasn't interested in more work, nor teaching. But decided a one time, short course would be okay. Sigh Then he and some other staff asked me to write a curriculum for modern DDC as used in building automation and energy management. Just do the curriculum, and spend some time bringing one of their instructors up to speed on what's actually being done and used currently. That's it. They'd not ask more. Yeah sure, now I'm teaching one day per week, 6 hours straight, on top of my regular job and don't even ask me how I got talked into that. I'm still trying to figure out just when I said "Yes", ... and why. Anyway, the largest age group in the class is 19-20 yr olds. Working on 2 yr tech degrees (AS). Tho there are a pretty fair number of older guys, and 2 gals. Who used to be in other jobs but are switching fields. Bob Teaching has been in my job since before I graduated High School (Instructional Aide). When I went into the Naval Reserve my Rate was that of Tradevman. That job maintained and operated simulators (Link Trainers through ASW jez and mad simulators.) Being an Instructor was part of that job. Later in CATV I became the back up Instructor for the Technical Classes, and that is where I got my Credential (Lifetime, Limited Service). SD City College approached my Employer to set up an AS degree program in CATV Technology. So I did that with the Regional Trainer. Even now in management, I do a lot of teaching. I enjoy the training of adults. They want to be there, and want to get the knowledge and skills. The ones that are difficult are the Jr. High/Middle School and High School students. It is rare to find one that wants to be there, or has the desire to learn what you are teaching. Rich |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
"Cliff Huprich" wrote in message om... "Richard Johnson" wrote in message ... By the way, I am a Credentialed Teacher in Industrial and Machine related Arts for grades 19 and 20 now and was a Certified IA back then working with the Teachers to develop and record the core course material. I think your points may be sound, as you teach those grades. I assume you have applied for a pay cut. Your students would be far better off at home. "Arts" is that darn spit "liberal" stuff anyway and all the kids really need is guns and bible study (so they know who to shoot) anyway. -- Cliff No Cliff, I do not presently teach in any school now. I am an Engineer and am doing Management duties. As those that can, do. And those the can't do, teach. I fall into a third catagory, those that can't teach, manage. (And we NEVER cut our salaries.) Rich |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:43:59 GMT, Lewis Hartswick
brought forth from the murky depths: Larry Jaques wrote: Public school teachers really aren't required to know actual subjects. They concentrate in "education" theory and union dues. That might explain a lot. They do too teach. They teach diversity, self-esteem, political correctness, and a whole lot of other very necessary things to thekids who can't find the USA on a map by the 8th grade... http://diversify.com My wife substitutes all over the city and I have been volunteering at a high school for several years, eating lunch with a group of teachers and I tell you it's AMAZING how little the teachers seem to know of so many subjects. No wonder the kids can't find the USA on a map or do the simplest arithmetic. :-( ...lew... When I was being retrained at Coleman College in '87, I watched a newly certificated teacher come into the computer electronics technology courses without even knowing what a resistor was. In 6 months, he wasn't bad, but surely couldn't teach anything to me from experience. I was astonished at how teachers are thrown into precarious positions and expected to teach something they themselves do not know. I queried the teacher about it and he said that every long-term teacher he'd talked to (pre-tenure, so under 10 years, I guess) had been through the same thing. Perhaps that's a newish trend in the U.S. I sure don't like it. I'm glad I had old-school teachers for the most part. And I'm glad for my 2nd grade teacher, Ms. Hankins, at Trinity Cathedral School in Little Rock. She wasn't a Sister and didn't cram religion down our throats. Her compassion took away my fears of school and made me like it again. That feeling hung on even through some real jerks of teachers, but I had a different attitude after Ms. Hankins. I didn't let the jerks get me down. Mr. Workman, the wood & metal shop teacher in 9th grade (and my Basic Aviation teacher in High School) was a crazy old coot who enjoyed the hell out of life, and learning, and teaching. That kind of enthusiasm is truly infectious and I had lots of fun in his classes. After high school (and immediately into auto tech school), I didn't appreciate the fun of learning again until I was forced to go back to school after an accident. Coleman opened it up for me and I haven't stopped avidly reading and learning since then. Praise (the powers that be) for good teachers and BOOKS! -- Impeach 'em ALL! ---------------------------------------------------- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:43:59 GMT, Lewis Hartswick
brought forth from the murky depths: My wife substitutes all over the city and I have been volunteering at a high school for several years, eating lunch with a group of teachers and I tell you it's AMAZING how little the teachers seem to know of so many subjects. No wonder the kids can't find the USA on a map or do the simplest arithmetic. :-( ...lew... I forgot one thing, Lew. A friend of mine in D.C. just got his Masters and his wife is going for her PHD. He's amazed at how little common sense people have even though they have tons of degrees and decades in higher education. I wish we could somehow make the boards of ed aware of that fact and have them allow EXPERIENCE in lieu of a second or third doctorate, etc. so the teachers in schools actually -knew- something of what they were teaching to these poor kids. So, are we all agreed that the acronym "PHD" actually stands for "Piled Higher and Deeper" and that the old trucking firm held more common sense in a single cab than a roomful of Drs. did? -- Impeach 'em ALL! ---------------------------------------------------- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:09:55 -0800, "Richard Johnson"
wrote: "Cliff Huprich" wrote in message . com... "Richard Johnson" wrote in message ... By the way, I am a Credentialed Teacher in Industrial and Machine related Arts for grades 19 and 20 now and was a Certified IA back then working with the Teachers to develop and record the core course material. I think your points may be sound, as you teach those grades. I assume you have applied for a pay cut. Your students would be far better off at home. "Arts" is that darn spit "liberal" stuff anyway and all the kids really need is guns and bible study (so they know who to shoot) anyway. -- Cliff No Cliff, I do not presently teach in any school now. I am an Engineer and am doing Management duties. As those that can, do. And those the can't do, teach. I fall into a third catagory, those that can't teach, manage. (And we NEVER cut our salaries.) Rich Well... I guess Rich took the wind out of Cliff's little smart ass. sarcastic comments!!! Cliff.. have you figured out how a bowl can have a 10 inch diameter and a 30 inch circumference yet? Is it impossible? Later, MIke |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
jim rozen wrote:
Right, but all the problem kids, the expensive ones, will still stay in public school - because no private school can afford to educate them. But some of them are in wheelchairs, etc. "Hey, this voucher says I can come here. You better make the classrooms ADA compliant." What do they say, 'nope' - the voucher is no good here? It looks like I am the only one in the group who can settle this. I am impartial; my wife tells me I have a pathological hatred of school. First to Jim: The state already has kids with "special needs" sent to private school. One the big items in my town's school budget is the cost of sending a few kids to very expensive private schools that hopefully meet their needs. To Ed and Gunner and the rest: You can't really argue. It's similar to STD statistics. The national statistics are interesting, but what really affects you is the condition of the person in bed next to you. In education you can prove anything you want because kids are different and respond to different methods of teaching. I am in favor of vouchers, because it would give easier access to the different methods of teaching. I am puzzled because the people that tell me how wonderful the public school system is are the the first to say no one will go there if given a choice. In my case (and Ed's) there are a limited number of school choices built into the public system. My son went to a "magnet" high school. He did very well there. He is that kind of kid. _But_ one size does not fit all. There should be (accessable) "magnet" schools for the other kinds of kids. Want apocryphal stories? My son went to a lot of science fairs, physics competitions and the like. He tells me the first to be eliminated in any meet were the home schooled kids. They weren't considered competition. This shows that home schooling doesn't work. He is now a FIRST robotics team advisor for an inner city public school in Boston. He tells me the kids there have never been exposed to anything like engineering before. Some kids pick it right up. Some kids didn't know what an "angle" was. My son was amazed that anyone could get to high school without knowing what an angle was. This shows that public schooling doesn't work. I'd give some examples of how private schooling doesn't work but we are all getting tired. Since the posts in this thread require a URL I'll give one. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393310728/002-2589149-2570406?v=glance Kevin Gallimore -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Home schooling (was...)
what happens
to the kids if the voucher money runs out in mid-year in the private school? Are they allowed to show up on the public school's doorstep, and demand to be educated? Why not? They are still payig for public educations over & above any of the proposed voucher amounts I've seen. The amounts are also much less than it costs the local school system to "educate" that student. I have a friend who home schools every other year to give his kids social skills. They are usually half a year ahead when they go in to the publc shools. The family lives on @ 12K a year. Greg Sefton |
Clark is correct
So, you're relegated to creating smart asses?
(sorry, couldn't resist) Contrary to popular belief, almost all asses are smart. :o). Everybody likes a little ass... Greg Sefton "Concerning the difference between man and the Jackass, some hold there isn't any.... But this wrongs the Jackass.." Mark Twain |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
My thoughts are that you should get a vocher if you have children and
do not send them to public school. I don't care if you home school them or send them to private school. If you have kids and are not tsending them to the public schools, you are saving the government money. How about if I don't have kids & don't send them to school. Look at all the $ I'm saving the govt. :o) Greg Sefton |
Clark is correct
How likely are they to be Asian? They are the higher performing kids.
Dan Yep, awhile after I got back from VN, I helped with the boat people coming in to Eglin AFB as an interpreter. These folks were as foreign to this country as anyone could imagine. In a few years, the kids were winning spelling bees. Talk about (overcoming) "cultural bias" :o). Greg Sefton |
the Home Schooled was Clark is correct
In article , axolotl says...
It looks like I am the only one in the group who can settle this. I am impartial; my wife tells me I have a pathological hatred of school. :^) You're in good company! The state already has kids with "special needs" sent to private school. One the big items in my town's school budget is the cost of sending a few kids to very expensive private schools that hopefully meet their needs. Right, but those few kids take up more than their percentage of funding that flows in to the public system through taxes. If you go and say 'now everyone gets an equal slice of the pie, here's your check for such-and-such dollars' that will be calculated on the equal slice theory. The special needs kids are now left with, say, 30% of what's required to school them. The real problem here is that public schools really smack of socialism - income redistribution and all. This sticks in the craw of the voucher folks. They want to get *their* hands on every nickel that's 'due' them, screw the disabled kids. They can have their welfare mom stay home and school them there. And we're not going to start discussing what happens when public tax money starts getting funnelled into parochial schools. What a mess. Now we're going to have the state (who *is* vouchering this stuff, right?) calling the shots in religious schools. Image that: "OK, your curriculum has to include this and this and this, because we're paying the bills." Catholic schools have to observe Jewish holidays, etc. There's a huge first amendment problem right there. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Clark is correct OT again, by the way Just ignore if you don't want to read it
"Gary H. Lucas" wrote in message
... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message et... Here in Metuchen, at least 1/4 of our home values are based on the fact that we live on a quick, efficient rail route to Manhatten. And that's a low estimate, in my view. As the man said, follow the money. Ed Huntress Yeah, but at least Manhattan has high paying jobs! So you buy a Condo near the light rail station, where are you going to work to pay for it? Well, that's a good question, but the state definitely has succumbed to property interests in pushing the project. The official word dresses up the reality a bit but here's what the head of NJ Transit said: "Light Rail has proven to be the impetus for explosive economic development along the waterfront in Hudson County. We expect similar results for this system. The E-Center, the State Aquarium, a new baseball stadium, and of course, the Battleship New Jersey, are the types of destinations that underscore the role light-rail will play in the region's redevelopment." It's the money. It may not pay off in general, but somebody with property interest in the area is going to make some money. Ed Huntress |
Home schooling (was...)
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:45:35 GMT, Dan Clingman wrote:
We are considering home school for shear efficiency. She can get a focused education in three hours at home and have time for her other activities. Now she comes home exhausted and really has to push to get her sports, chores, home work and music lesson done; plus, a first grader really needs time just to play. That extra four hours would be gold as it is everything, but school, slips. Welcome to real life. I could do my job in 3 hours of focused time a day, IF EVERYONE WOULD LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE. But the real world doesn't work that way. Kids need to learn that too. Gary |
Clark is correct
"Dan Caster" wrote in message
m... How likely are they to be Asian? They are the higher performing kids. Dan 'Don't know. You may find it in that report to which I posted a link: http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/HomeSchool/ Ed Huntress |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:09 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter