Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:44:18 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/


Nicely done!

Now for a generic key for your bolt

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ess%20Grinders

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/makita/9500D/
(will unlock The Club in less than 3 minutes)


Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Don Foreman wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/

I hate to break it to you, but any reasonably complete set of security bits
has a 1/4" allen in it.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:51:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
Asch quickly quoth:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:44:18 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/


Nicely done!

Ditto!


Now for a generic key for your bolt

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ess%20Grinders

Ouch! That Bosch is over $400USD!


http://www.toolbarn.com/product/makita/9500D/

Ah, that's better.


(will unlock The Club in less than 3 minutes)

Just as a 4" cordless chainsaw will get you into most any wood- or
metal-framed building in that time. Security no longer exists.


--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites

In article , Don Foreman says...

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/

I like the ones with the hex heads that snap off when you torque
beyond a certain value - and I like to recess them down inside
a counterbore to keep Gunner's key from unlocking them....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:57:48 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:



Just as a 4" cordless chainsaw will get you into most any wood- or
metal-framed building in that time. Security no longer exists.

I "secured" a Harley-Davidson to my garage floor quite like
Don's idea. Worked fine until the garage was broken into.
Assorted disc grinders, bolt cutters hanging on the wall,
and to really help out the thieves... my oxy-acetylene
torch parked not ten feet away.

That's me.... always thinking, eh?

I did get the bike back, didn't bother locking it
down after that. Bought an alarm system.

Posting from beautiful Hancock, Mi

I dont care what kind of security bolt you dream up and make, my blue flame
wrench will loosen them all. Stuff like this will slow down or discourage
the amateurs or opportunists. The more enticicing the target is, the harder
the career thieves will work to grab it. A good loud dog with powerful jaws
and sharp teeth and a Smith & Wesson are my security systems of choice.
Tom

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Don Foreman
says...

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/

I like the ones with the hex heads that snap off when you torque
beyond a certain value - and I like to recess them down inside
a counterbore to keep Gunner's key from unlocking them....

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Larry Jaques wrote:


(will unlock The Club in less than 3 minutes)


Just as a 4" cordless chainsaw will get you into most any wood- or
metal-framed building in that time. Security no longer exists.



3 MINUTES? Hah, more like 3 seconds! Most people, even the criminals,
don't know that the door is the hardest thing to get through in most
modern construction. If you want in fast, just kick right through
the WALL. Many houses have 3/8" plywood sheathing on the outside, and
wallboard or less on the inside. One kick with a boot will just go
right through.

Jon

Around here dogs aren't allowed to carry guns, and it doesn't
sound very safe anyway.

Tom Wait wrote:
I dont care what kind of security bolt you dream up and make, my blue flame
wrench will loosen them all. Stuff like this will slow down or discourage
the amateurs or opportunists. The more enticicing the target is, the harder
the career thieves will work to grab it. A good loud dog with powerful jaws
and sharp teeth and a Smith & Wesson are my security systems of choice.
Tom

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:51:20 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:44:18 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/


Nicely done!

Now for a generic key for your bolt

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ess%20Grinders

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/makita/9500D/
(will unlock The Club in less than 3 minutes)

Right. There's no such thing as "secure" -- but most punks don't
carry anglegrinders, nor would they want the noise and sparkshow at
night. My intent is just to make it easier to steal someone elses'
stuff.

Gunner Asch wrote:

Now for a generic key for your bolt

There's a video on Compfused.com where a guy 'steals' his own bike from
various locations. Tools varied, but my favorite was popping a service
cover from a street light, plugging in an angle grinder, and noisily
cutting the lock. He had a business-like manner, as if that's how he
always unlocked his bike and not once did anyone do anything more than
stare at him for a few seconds...

Sorta depressing actually, and a good reason to cycle commute on cheapo
yard sale or auction bought bikes.

Jon

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:04:28 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:

I dont care what kind of security bolt you dream up and make, my blue flame
wrench will loosen them all. Stuff like this will slow down or discourage
the amateurs or opportunists.

That is exactly the intent because that is by far the most probable
threat. I'm "securing" a 10-year-old snowblower, not the
kohinoor diamond or even an expensive bicycle. The weak link in my
setup is really the chain. Big boltcutters would pop the chain in a
second. I just didn't want stealing my snowblower to be too easy.

Determined and resourceful thieves pick their targets to be worth the
trouble and risk. I doubt if you can get much dope with an old
snowblower.

I've cut several Krypton bikelocks for biker friends of my daughter
who've lost their keys. Takes about 30 seconds. BTW, Krypton locks
are still vulnerable to liquid nitrogen and a hammer, and every punk
has a thermos of LN2 in his kit, right? You know, rIght next to
the set of security wrenches, the anglegrinder and the O/A torch....

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:04:28 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:


I like the ones with the hex heads that snap off when you torque
beyond a certain value - and I like to recess them down inside
a counterbore to keep Gunner's key from unlocking them....

Gotta think like a thief. If the bolt isn't easily removed quickly
and quietly, cut the chain -- or, more likely, find something easier
to steal. No deterrent is absolute, any deterrent is better than
none.

I know that one can open the locked door of a Chevy truck very quietly
and quickly with a bloodpressure cuff. I just lock the doors and
take my chances. So far, so good, still have the truck and the stuff
inside it.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:51:20 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:44:18 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/


Nicely done!

Now for a generic key for your bolt

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ess%20Grinders

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/makita/9500D/
(will unlock The Club in less than 3 minutes)

I know, I know. Maybe I just wanted to do something with metal as a
break. I'm in process of trying to learn to use microcontrollers and
program in C. Some high school kids do it, how hard can it be?

Unnnnggghhhh! I'm not a kid anymore!

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:10:22 GMT, Ignoramus29580
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:52:03 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/

I hate to break it to you, but any reasonably complete set of security bits
has a 1/4" allen in it.


I have a set of security bits like that.

So do I, but they're metric up to 9 mm. Most stuff that uses them
uses metric fasteners, usually smaller Torx fasteners.

Anyway, you like to shovel snow so I'm not worried.

Jon Anderson wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Now for a generic key for your bolt

There's a video on Compfused.com where a guy 'steals' his own bike from
various locations. Tools varied, but my favorite was popping a service
cover from a street light, plugging in an angle grinder, and noisily
cutting the lock. He had a business-like manner, as if that's how he
always unlocked his bike and not once did anyone do anything more than
stare at him for a few seconds...

Sorta depressing actually, and a good reason to cycle commute on cheapo
yard sale or auction bought bikes.

One time drove my Corvette down to the hardware store. When I went to leave
the alarm started sounding and flashing the lights and wouldn't shut off.
I didn't have any tools with me. I looked under the instrument panel and
found that I needed a phillips screwdriver to get the cover off. Went into
the hardware store and bought a screwdriver. Came out, took the cover off,
couldn't see. Went in, got a flashlight. Came out, looked around, found I
needed something or other. Ended up about six trips into the hardware
store for tools, about an hour and a half of time, the alarm sounding and
the lights flashing the whole time, and nobody even stopped to kibitz.
Finally got the alarm module out and wired around it and tossed it as far
as I could and drove off.

Jon

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Don Foreman wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/


I hope this guy doesn't turn bad and visit Minnesota. G

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...07140909990003

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:58:46 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:04:28 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:

I dont care what kind of security bolt you dream up and make, my blue flame
wrench will loosen them all. Stuff like this will slow down or discourage
the amateurs or opportunists.

That is exactly the intent because that is by far the most probable
threat. I'm "securing" a 10-year-old snowblower, not the
kohinoor diamond or even an expensive bicycle. The weak link in my
setup is really the chain. Big boltcutters would pop the chain in a
second. I just didn't want stealing my snowblower to be too easy.

Determined and resourceful thieves pick their targets to be worth the
trouble and risk. I doubt if you can get much dope with an old
snowblower.

I've cut several Krypton bikelocks for biker friends of my daughter
who've lost their keys. Takes about 30 seconds. BTW, Krypton locks
are still vulnerable to liquid nitrogen and a hammer, and every punk
has a thermos of LN2 in his kit, right? You know, rIght next to
the set of security wrenches, the anglegrinder and the O/A torch....


You CUT a Krytpon lock? You didnt have a BIC pen?

http://www.engadget.com/entry/7796925370303347/


Lots of kids can get em open in less than 30 seconds

http://www.snopes.com/crime/warnings/kryptonite.asp

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:42:13 GMT, Ignoramus29580
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:38:30 -0800, Jon Anderson wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Now for a generic key for your bolt

There's a video on Compfused.com where a guy 'steals' his own bike from
various locations. Tools varied, but my favorite was popping a service
cover from a street light, plugging in an angle grinder, and noisily
cutting the lock. He had a business-like manner, as if that's how he
always unlocked his bike and not once did anyone do anything more than
stare at him for a few seconds...

Sorta depressing actually, and a good reason to cycle commute on cheapo
yard sale or auction bought bikes.

That's what many people do. My own bicycle, which is kind of nice,
cost me $2.

i

My $35 Cannondale is secured INSIDE an outbuilding that can only be
reached by going through the dogs... So are some of the more costly
other stuff that needs long term storage.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:19:13 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:51:20 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:44:18 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/


Nicely done!

Now for a generic key for your bolt

http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/...ess%20Grinders

http://www.toolbarn.com/product/makita/9500D/
(will unlock The Club in less than 3 minutes)

I know, I know. Maybe I just wanted to do something with metal as a
break. I'm in process of trying to learn to use microcontrollers and
program in C. Some high school kids do it, how hard can it be?

Unnnnggghhhh! I'm not a kid anymore!


Years ago, when I was tech services manager for Cincinnatti Time, I
checked a company car out of the pool, and headed to Fresno for a
sales call. Getting it all done, I discovered I needed gas, so pulled
into a gas station. Locking gas cap, no key. $#@!

A 12 yr old black kid (rough neighborhood..Belmont and Olive)
volunteered to open the gas cap for $10.

He did..inside of about 10 seconds, with a short piece of bicyckle
spoke. I paid him.

I was talking to a cop buddy of mine and he commented that the Club
was worthless..when I asked..he said the kids were carrying hacksaws,
and simply cutting the steering wheel next to the Club, spreading it
apart and removing the Club. Took em about 1.5 minutes. No muss no
fuss.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:32:31 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
Ended up about six trips into the hardware
store for tools, about an hour and a half of time, the alarm sounding and
the lights flashing the whole time, and nobody even stopped to kibitz.
Finally got the alarm module out and wired around it and tossed it as far
as I could and drove off.

It's all about how you look when you're doing it. If you look like
you're supposed to be where you are, doing what you're doing, you can
get away with an awful lot. If you look like you're not supposed to be
up to what you're doing, it's pretty obvious.

"Yes, thanks for stopping by when you saw someone going through this
gate, officer. It's good to know you guys are watching out for me so
well. It's my property; would you like to see my ID?" Of course, some
people have a problem with that sort of thing, but that's an attitude
problem rather than a real problem.

Years ago, before 9/11, I did lots of work at small airports.
Invariably, you'd have the "Authorized vehicles only beyond this point"
sign on the road we needed to take to get to the planes we'd be working
on. This road was never guarded, and the sign (and sometimes even a
gate) were the security. Theory being, as usual, it keeps the casual
troublemakers out; the determined ones won't be stopped anyway.

Dave Hinz

Ignoramus29580 wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:04:09 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:42:13 GMT, Ignoramus29580
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:38:30 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Now for a generic key for your bolt

There's a video on Compfused.com where a guy 'steals' his own bike
from various locations. Tools varied, but my favorite was popping
a service cover from a street light, plugging in an angle grinder,
and noisily cutting the lock. He had a business-like manner, as if
that's how he always unlocked his bike and not once did anyone do
anything more than stare at him for a few seconds...

Sorta depressing actually, and a good reason to cycle commute on
cheapo yard sale or auction bought bikes.

That's what many people do. My own bicycle, which is kind of nice,
cost me $2.

i

My $35 Cannondale is secured INSIDE an outbuilding that can only be
reached by going through the dogs... So are some of the more costly
other stuff that needs long term storage.

Since we do not seem to have a theft problem, I simply do not secure
anything. I have guns and carry them at various moments, so people
should not take it as an invitation to visit me without an
appointment.

For some reason , nobody bothers my stuff any more . Maybe because the
whole neighborhood knows that I carry a gun *all* the time . The Harleys and
assorted characters riding them that stop by on occasion probably don't hurt
either ... and y'all'r welcome to stop by any time , just don't raise your
voice or act aggressive . The dog doesn't like that ...

I followed your progress with the tig machine with special interest , as I
set my Lincoln Weldpack 100 up with gas near the same time . I can see why
mig is so popular with neophytes , it's easy (relatively , comparing my
experience with stick) to get a nice looking bead with a little practice .
I did have some problems with penetration early on , but think I got it
figgered out now . At least , stuff breaks next to the weld now instead of
the weld giving .

--
Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
BS132 SENS NEWT
"A hand shift is a manly shift ."
shamelessly stolen
none to one to reply

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:15:52 GMT, Ignoramus29580
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:04:09 GMT, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:42:13 GMT, Ignoramus29580
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:38:30 -0800, Jon Anderson wrote:
Gunner Asch wrote:

Now for a generic key for your bolt

There's a video on Compfused.com where a guy 'steals' his own bike from
various locations. Tools varied, but my favorite was popping a service
cover from a street light, plugging in an angle grinder, and noisily
cutting the lock. He had a business-like manner, as if that's how he
always unlocked his bike and not once did anyone do anything more than
stare at him for a few seconds...

Sorta depressing actually, and a good reason to cycle commute on cheapo
yard sale or auction bought bikes.

That's what many people do. My own bicycle, which is kind of nice,
cost me $2.

i

My $35 Cannondale is secured INSIDE an outbuilding that can only be
reached by going through the dogs... So are some of the more costly
other stuff that needs long term storage.

Since we do not seem to have a theft problem, I simply do not secure
anything. I have guns and carry them at various moments, so people
should not take it as an invitation to visit me without an
appointment.

There is also very little stuff that can be stolen from me that can be
resold for much money.

i
Actually..I dont have a theft problem either. Locals know this place
is Bad Juju..and that I do indeed have acess to a backhoe and 2500
squre miles of desert. And the will to use both. And if some of the
rumors are true (they are not), have already done so....G

I seldom lock even the doors in the house.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Don Foreman wrote:

I'm in process of trying to learn to use microcontrollers and
program in C.

To learn C, go get PCLint. It's a checker _way_ beyond _any_ compiler
flags go. You can learn a veryvery lot by checking your programs and
reading the notes for each and every warning/error you get. Do that!

Stay away from C++. It's the worst language ever invented.
If you need OO, learn Eiffel. :-)))


What uC do you use? Hope you are using assembler.


Unnnnggghhhh! I'm not a kid anymore!

"You know you are getting old when you can't learn to program uCs"


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:04:28 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:

I dont care what kind of security bolt you dream up and make, my blue flame
wrench will loosen them all. Stuff like this will slow down or discourage
the amateurs or opportunists.

That is exactly the intent because that is by far the most probable
threat. I'm "securing" a 10-year-old snowblower, not the
kohinoor diamond or even an expensive bicycle. The weak link in my
setup is really the chain. Big boltcutters would pop the chain in a
second. I just didn't want stealing my snowblower to be too easy.

Determined and resourceful thieves pick their targets to be worth the
trouble and risk. I doubt if you can get much dope with an old
snowblower.

I've cut several Krypton bikelocks for biker friends of my daughter
who've lost their keys. Takes about 30 seconds. BTW, Krypton locks
are still vulnerable to liquid nitrogen and a hammer, and every punk
has a thermos of LN2 in his kit, right? You know, rIght next to
the set of security wrenches, the anglegrinder and the O/A torch....

The company I used to work for had to use "standby" portable
generators every once-in-a-while during power outages to supply power
to cableTV power supplies. Had a small job stolen once and the "boss"
went out and bought this mongo chain and lock. "This ought to secure
it" says he. Says I, " Fifteen seconds with a hacksaw and the emt
tubing framework on the generator will be cut, spread apart, chain
slipped out and you will be left with your new chain and lock around
the pole, just like you left them, but the generator will be gone".
"Only you could have shot this idea down so fast" says he. G
Ken.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:11:14 GMT, Ignoramus29580
wrote:



C is a very fun language... If you write your own code, it is not as
difficult as reading others code.

i

Yeah, but it'll never overtake Rocky Mountain Basic G

Mark Rand
RTFM

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:35:16 +0100, (Nick Müller)
wrote:

What uC do you use? Hope you are using assembler.

I'll be using some PIC's, probably more Atmel AVR's. PIC's I use will
be low-end, using only assembler. Example: a 10F20x part in SOT23-6
(0.110" x 0.116") for LED flashlight control logic -- switching,
brightness control, etc.

I'll want C for things that require math computations. I'll use the
AVR's for those apps.

Unnnnggghhhh! I'm not a kid anymore!

"You know you are getting old when you can't learn to program uCs"

Hell, I already knew that -- but I think I can still learn to use
uC's. We'll see.

Nice concept and well done.
Martin - owner of one of those do all almost - kits because I needed it.

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



Don Foreman wrote:
Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:02:00 GMT, Gunner Asch
wrote:

..


You CUT a Krytpon lock? You didnt have a BIC pen?

Yeah, this was quite a while ago. Karen has lived in NYC for at least
5 years now, so it was at least that long ago.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:10:30 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:


The company I used to work for had to use "standby" portable
generators every once-in-a-while during power outages to supply power
to cableTV power supplies. Had a small job stolen once and the "boss"
went out and bought this mongo chain and lock. "This ought to secure
it" says he. Says I, " Fifteen seconds with a hacksaw and the emt
tubing framework on the generator will be cut, spread apart, chain
slipped out and you will be left with your new chain and lock around
the pole, just like you left them, but the generator will be gone".
"Only you could have shot this idea down so fast" says he. G
Ken.

During our September 6-day power outage, I noticed a cable truck
parked near my house for several days but never saw a crew working.

Turned out someone was sitting in that truck 24/7, guarding a little 3
KW generator.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:50:27 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

Warning: metal content

http://users.goldengate.net/~dforeman/security-bolt/


I hope this guy doesn't turn bad and visit Minnesota. G

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...07140909990003

Jeff

Not likely. He'd freeze his arse off in that costume.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 16:04:28 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:

I dont care what kind of security bolt you dream up and make, my blue flame
wrench will loosen them all. Stuff like this will slow down or discourage
the amateurs or opportunists.

That is exactly the intent because that is by far the most probable
threat. I'm "securing" a 10-year-old snowblower, not the
kohinoor diamond or even an expensive bicycle. The weak link in my
setup is really the chain. Big boltcutters would pop the chain in a
second. I just didn't want stealing my snowblower to be too easy.

Determined and resourceful thieves pick their targets to be worth the
trouble and risk. I doubt if you can get much dope with an old
snowblower.

I've cut several Krypton bikelocks for biker friends of my daughter
who've lost their keys. Takes about 30 seconds. BTW, Krypton locks
are still vulnerable to liquid nitrogen and a hammer, and every punk
has a thermos of LN2 in his kit, right? You know, rIght next to
the set of security wrenches, the anglegrinder and the O/A torch....


Can somebody explain the method for using ln2 to freeze and break a lock?
Aside from plastic, food and pennies, I've not found any metal that
completely fails when cooled to those temps.

Don Foreman wrote:

I'll be using some PIC's, probably more Atmel AVR's.

Start with the PICs. They have far better documentation. You'll find
nearly whatever you dream of at Microchip. And nothing at Atmel.


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO - YADRO - Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:48:21 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:35:16 +0100, (Nick Müller)
wrote:

What uC do you use? Hope you are using assembler.

I'll be using some PIC's, probably more Atmel AVR's. PIC's I use will
be low-end, using only assembler. Example: a 10F20x part in SOT23-6
(0.110" x 0.116") for LED flashlight control logic -- switching,
brightness control, etc.

I'll want C for things that require math computations. I'll use the
AVR's for those apps.

Unnnnggghhhh! I'm not a kid anymore!

"You know you are getting old when you can't learn to program uCs"

Hell, I already knew that -- but I think I can still learn to use
uC's. We'll see.


Yeah, I suppose that assembler is ok for the 10F20x series because you really
can't write enough code to be a documentation problem and you can't afford the
inefficiency of a compiler. Anything bigger and I would go to C even if it
meant writing the odd subroutine or macro in assembler to make the compiled
output more efficient.

This is based on several months of grief some years ago trying to re-write one
of my early projects for a 16C73 (4k instructions, 192 bytes ram, both nearly
all used) and discovering that it would have been far simpler to throw
everything away, go back to the original spec and re-write from scratch. That
exercise was so unpleasant for both me and the chap that was desperate for the
code that it put me off uC coding for fun and profit and I will only go back
to it when I need to do toys for me.


Mark Rand
RTFM

Cydrome Leader wrote:

I've cut several Krypton bikelocks for biker friends of my daughter
who've lost their keys. Takes about 30 seconds. BTW, Krypton locks
are still vulnerable to liquid nitrogen and a hammer, and every punk
has a thermos of LN2 in his kit, right? You know, rIght next to
the set of security wrenches, the anglegrinder and the O/A torch....


Can somebody explain the method for using ln2 to freeze and break a lock?
Aside from plastic, food and pennies, I've not found any metal that
completely fails when cooled to those temps.

It does not take ln2. Just one of those cans used to freeze
electronics while testing for intermittants. My son saw it done on 5th
ave in Manhatten and was curious enough to pick up the empty can to see
what was used.

Many steels have lose their impact strength when chilled. So you chill
the steel and then hit it with a BFH. The steel shatters.


Dan

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:00:46 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:48:21 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:35:16 +0100, (Nick Müller)
wrote:

What uC do you use? Hope you are using assembler.

I'll be using some PIC's, probably more Atmel AVR's. PIC's I use will
be low-end, using only assembler. Example: a 10F20x part in SOT23-6
(0.110" x 0.116") for LED flashlight control logic -- switching,
brightness control, etc.

I'll want C for things that require math computations. I'll use the
AVR's for those apps.

Unnnnggghhhh! I'm not a kid anymore!

"You know you are getting old when you can't learn to program uCs"

Hell, I already knew that -- but I think I can still learn to use
uC's. We'll see.


Yeah, I suppose that assembler is ok for the 10F20x series because you really
can't write enough code to be a documentation problem and you can't afford the
inefficiency of a compiler. Anything bigger and I would go to C even if it
meant writing the odd subroutine or macro in assembler to make the compiled
output more efficient.

My current plan is to use AVR's for anything that would require C
because the AVR was designed with C in mind. I may change my mind
about that, but that's how I'm going to start. If I have to buy a C
compiler for PIC, the guy I got the AVR compiler from also offers a
PIC compiler so I won't have to relearn much -- this is not an
accident. The one I'm going with is from
http://www.fored.co.uk/

For those who will have a better idea, save your typing; I've picked
me pony and I'm gonna ride it at least until it stumbles. This guy
seems to be thought highly of by several on the elex design NG and
I've found him to be very responsive as well.


This is based on several months of grief some years ago trying to re-write one
of my early projects for a 16C73 (4k instructions, 192 bytes ram, both nearly
all used) and discovering that it would have been far simpler to throw
everything away, go back to the original spec and re-write from scratch. That
exercise was so unpleasant for both me and the chap that was desperate for the
code that it put me off uC coding for fun and profit and I will only go back
to it when I need to do toys for me.

Sounds like you got jerked around by the moving target syndrome --
"it's only software", right? WRONG. Good robust embedded control
software is designed from the ground up, not tinkered into existance.
Bandaids and patches are very bad juju. OK for MicroSoft, maybe, but
not for something controlling big motors. things that fly or other
things where a "bug" (read defect) can be hugely expensive or worse.

I'm obviously no software weenie but I've led teams with some that
were very damned good. My role as team leader wasn't to tell them
what to do or how to do it, more to run interference with the customer
and management so they could do their jobs to the best of their
ability -- which was awesome.

They didn't need motivation, just needed the resources and the
insulation from bureaucratic bull**** to do their part of the team's
job. Those small teams were fun. We all learned a lot from each
other and had a hell of a good time at work. I came to the job
knowing a bit about belonging to, building and leading strongly
goal-oriented small teams -- not a skill learned in corporate
America!

Rule 1: don't even start work until a detailed spec has been agreed
upon. Rule 2: when they wanna change it, renegotiate both cost and
schedule as necessary. That's what successful building contractors
do. "I want to add a bay window on my new house". "OK, no problem.
Here's the cost and schedule impact." They're more subtle than that,
but that's how it works.

I wrote a couple of programs of 1K to 2K in assy for the 6502 a
millenium ago. I found documentation to be no problem with liberal
use of comments that really convey some information about what a bit
of code is doing and how it's doing it. I'm sure I could still
read those programs today.

I don't do anything anymore for anyone that is desperate for it. If
they've dicked around long enough to be desperate, I won't touch
it unless they want to pay so much I can't pass it up. That's
extremely unlikely with microcontroller software because there are a
bazillion guys that are good at it and would want the job. About any
EE under 40, maybe 50, can write code for microcontrollers.

I'm doing this to make toys for me and my friends, the more frivolous
the bettter.

I know I'll make some wrong steps here, already have. Can't get
unlost being still in a hide, gotta keep moving to gain new intel.
Not Intel!

In article ,
Ignoramus29580 wrote:

[...]

C is a very fun language... If you write your own code, it is not as
difficult as reading others code.

i

http://www.ioccc.org/

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net

According to B.B. u:
In article ,
Ignoramus29580 wrote:

[...]

C is a very fun language... If you write your own code, it is not as
difficult as reading others code.

i

http://www.ioccc.org/

Great! I didn't know that they were still running that. Things
seem to have gotten elaborate.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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